11 ms·

They made the standalone license almost impossible to find and get, forced a subscription on users, and made the password vault storage online for the subscript

by AnonC 5y ago

They made the standalone license almost impossible to find and get, forced a subscription on users, and made the password vault storage online for the subscriptions. Now this self-hosting survey comes as a surprise, and it would be of some relief if/when it’s implemented. I do wonder how the licensing and pricing will be handled though. Bitwarden officially allows self-hosting for the personal use tiers, but it seems to have some license purchase requirements even for the self-hosted options (other than the free tier). Is there any password management application out there that makes sharing passwords or password vaults easy but is also free? I’ve looked at KeePassXC and Bitwarden. The former isn’t easy to use for sharing and sharing permissions. The latter doesn’t offer sharing among more than two people in the free tier.

gizdan 5y ago
You can self-host vaultwarden (formerly bitwarden_rs), which gives full enterprise functionality.
- fy20 5y ago
  I do this, works perfectly for sharing common passwords among my family (streaming services and utilities mainly). I moved from 1Password, and my main gripe with Bitwarden are the apps aren't as polished. If it's not too expensive I'd consider switching back (1Password family is $60 per year, so I assume this will be less).
  - afavour 5y ago
    I had the exact same experience. I don’t want to care about the app UI etc but when you use a password manager as often as you do it really matters. Not to mention selling the idea to less tech-savvy family members, it really does have to be as simple as can be.
    - hanklazard 5y ago
      I self-host Bitwarden_rs and use the client apps on Windows, Linux, and MacOS. To me, the UI seems very usable, polished and attractive. It doesn’t seem that different from 1Password, which I switched from a few years ago. What exactly about the UI needs improvement?
      - afavour 5y ago
        The mobile apps were the primary problem for me. Regrettably it was long enough ago that I can’t remember all the details but I’m pretty sure at the time it didn’t support TouchID for one.
        hanklazard 5y ago
        I'd say give it another try sometime! The mobile app (I've only used the iOS version) is very usable and has FaceID support for those that want it. Also, safari can work with the app to pull passwords quickly. I'm just really grateful this project exists. I've tried most of the major password managers out there and I feel like BW/VW is the clear winner, especially if you're willing to host your own server. If not, their pricing for an annual personal account is incredibly reasonable.
      - gizdan 5y ago
        Personally the UI itself is fine. The UX on the other hand not so much. - Firefox Extension doesn't work fully in a private window in Firefox. - Extension loses data when you click away from it. - Extension is hard to navigate using keyboard - e.g. there is no way to copy specific username/password/otp code. There is lots more issues.
        hanklazard 5y ago
        Good to know, extensions always feel like the weak link in password manager security (again, not a developer so happy to be proven wrong here) so I don't use them. I always just copy out of the desktop app (Ctrl + P), still a really fast keyboard-only workflow once you get used to it.
      - 5y ago
    - karmanyaahm 5y ago
      my less savvy family members all use bitwarden with sharing and don't see any major problems fwiw ymmw
  - ibdf 5y ago
    I find this surprising. I’ve been using Bitwarden for a few years now… the mobile app is easy to use. They even make MFA painless by automatically copying the code after the password is entered. The browser extensions seem to work fine too. Perhaps the web app is not as clean, but I rarely use it.
  - j1elo 5y ago
    I'm paying for a Bitwarden subscription because I want to support their product and their vision. But I don't know, time passes and some much needed improvements don't seem to arrive. The most glaring issue (for me, anyway; I fully understand I'm just a sample size of 1!) they have is relying on the pop-up UI of the browser, which I guess is stateless (state is lost when the popup closes, it seems?). The decision of using this UI was already wrong from its inception, IMHO, not sure why they thought it would be a good idea. But more surprising is that they haven't yet moved to the much more reliable and user friendly method of opening their UI on a new tab, which was a no brainer when using LastPass. Oh well. They said to have this in the backlog, so hopefully it gets some attention sooner than later... but in the meantime the end users are faced with silly issues like this, software that loses user data should not be a concern in the first place, and for sure they won't care about some technical explanation about how the browser handles pop-up windows. (for anyone interested: https://community.bitwarden.com/t/persist-bitwarden-ui-and-maintain-entered-data-previously-unsaved-changes-are-lost-when-move-to-another-item/5470/20 https://community.bitwarden.com/t/persist-bitwarden-ui-and-m...)
    - gizdan 5y ago
      It gets worse. Their browser extension doesn't work when using a private window in Firefox. The GitHub issue[0] around it was raised in 2017. They've been blaming Mozilla for deprecating and subsequently removing an API. It's pretty ridiculous. [0] https://github.com/bitwarden/browser/issues/136 https://github.com/bitwarden/browser/issues/136
      - decrypt 5y ago
        I thought it was just me where Bitwarden didn't work on the private window.
    - bruckie 5y ago
      Tavis Ormandy (of Google Project Zero) has a pretty convincing post arguing that relying on browser extensions that modify the DOM (which includes [almost?] all password managers) is a bad idea: https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/passmgrs.html https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/passmgrs.html (he recommends using your browser's built-in password manager, which isn't as convenient but is much more secure)
  - ziml77 5y ago
    That lack of polish and lack of improvement over the couple years I used Bitwarden are why I switched back to 1Password. Being open-source is not a free pass to ignore issues like that.
- 8fingerlouie 5y ago
  You can indeed, but only if you accept what follows. You will be in charge of maintaining critical infrastructure, as well as keeping it safe from attackers. My biggest complaint about the 1Password8 situation is that i've been "self hosting" version 7 for years using iCloud sync, and it has worked perfectly. I have my 1Password vault on every device for "free". With family sharing in iTunes, i had it for every family member for "free" as well. With version 8 they're taking that away, and instead trying to push me to a $5/month subscription that essentially does the same thing. I have faithfully purchased every version up until now, and had they kept local vaults/iCloud sync i would have purchased the next one as well. As it is now, self-hosted or not, i will be looking for something else. Afterall, all i really need is an encrypted file on a cloud share. Unix Pass would be great if it didn't leak information about which sites you have logins for. "Easily" fixable by using Pass Tomb, but sadly that's not available on iOS.
  - gizdan 5y ago
    Totally agree, and I notice a lot of people just blindly go down the hosting Vaultwarden route. There's a trade-off that everyone needs to consider, and much of it depends entirely on their skill level. Having said, I'm all for self-hosting and I hope it continues to become prevalent.
    - 8fingerlouie 5y ago
      I'm also all for self-hosting, but there's a difference between hosting things for your LAN, and hosting things available on the internet. Most people have no clue about the amount of work required to runs things in a secure, redundant and resilient way. And no, a RaspberryPi in the corner, running on your LAN probably won't cut it. At least not for me.
xerxesaa 5y ago
When looking into KeePassXC, did you specifically look into the KeeShare[1] feature? As long as you have some common place to read/write a file, you can share a subset of your credentials. I agree this is not as easy as hosted solution like Bitwarden, but KeePass was always designed to be a non-hosted solution, so I think this is about as good as they can do. 1 - https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide.html#_database_sharing_with_keeshare https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide.html#_databas...
- AnonC 5y ago
  GP here. Yes, I did look at the KeeShare feature, and that's what I had in mind when I said seemed not as easy to use. I'll have to read more and try it out practically.
mohammedhdotio 5y ago
I've been using psono for a few months now https://psono.com/ https://psono.com/ .
- AnonC 5y ago
  Thanks a lot for this suggestion. It looks like what I need.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pscoutou 5y ago
> They made the standalone license almost impossible to find and get, forced a subscription on users, and made the password vault storage online for the subscriptions. 1Password recently raised $100 million at a $2 billion valuation. Looks like they're going down the Dropbox path. Shame as 1Password used to be one of my favorite apps.
- runlevel1 5y ago
  Hidden for now, gone in the next release. Source: https://1password.community/discussion/115018/support-for-local-vaults/p3#:~:text=the%20new%20releases%20do%20not%20have%20support%20for%20local/standalone%20vaults%20and%201Password%207%20will%20be%20the%20last%20version%20to%20support%20them https://1password.community/discussion/115018/support-for-lo...
CrimsonRain 5y ago
Enpass works nicely. I can freely share vaults and keep vaults backed up in anyway I prefer. Two downsides: 1. Mobile is paid I think 2. Not open source
- mehanik 5y ago
  Agree, I have been using it for years. It has a nice, non-browser based client on all platforms including Linux.
- Ecstatify 5y ago
  Personally I don't recommend Enpass. They switched to a subscription model like every other password manager. They don't host your data so have no recurring expense, I don't understand how they can justify the subscription model. They have no real innovation, they added an "Audit Feature" for an additional €26.49 per year.
  - tw04 5y ago
    They appear to have a lifetime option? “Enpass lifetime premium: $79.99”
  - CrimsonRain 5y ago
    Sorry; I didn't know. I got the "pro" version long ago for iOS and they have basically retained that (kinda upgraded for free as now I can use on all devices). I think it cost me $10 or something. So amazing for me. Now the same deal is $80 which I think is still ok but on the high side. I like their hands off approach. Password autofill/save etc are also far better than most other password managers (esp bitwarden).
Cosmin_C 5y ago
Previous 1Password user here. Switched to KeePass, still figuring out the ins and outs, but looks quite nice in the options it provides.
tqkxzugoaupvwqr 5y ago
Are you saying there is as standalone version of 1Password 7? Does it support vault sync via iCloud?
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  I use it with a vault synced via Dropbox. I'd never given their subscription service a second thought. Didn't realize it was so hard to buy that option.
- bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
  Yes and yes
- AnonC 5y ago
  GP here. Yes, there is a standalone version, but you'd have to know specific incantations and rituals to find out how and where to get it. It's purposely hidden away from the homepage and other pages about the product and pricing.
  - thunfischbrot 5y ago
    Exactly. I moved away from 1Password for that reason, quite happy with Bitwarden.
api 5y ago
> Is there any password management application out there that makes sharing passwords or password vaults easy but is also free? If there isn’t something out there that is free, there are two options: 1. Make one. 2. Stop complaining.
Terretta 5y ago
> Is there any password management application out there that makes sharing passwords or password vaults easy but is also free? For members of a relatively well-paid profession earning good wages from creating software, I wonder if the reluctance to support others earning money for quality work isn’t some form of cognitive dissonance. // Pre-emptive “edit” before this comment has replies: Folks post a lot of arguments for “free” software any time there’s a comment such as mine — but justifications largely feel like post-hoc rationalizations conflating freedom of information and ideas with freedom from paying for value, ret-con’d stories we tell ourselves. I call BS — unless one is independently wealthy, to spend maker time on art or craft requires one to either earn money or enjoy patronage. Tools for work are more craft than art, and deserve to earn, especially as patronage or maker communes are in short supply. Not to mention the exercise of ethnocentric privilege implicit in demanding something of quality in exchange for nothing assured.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  My guess is it's over confidence, at least in my case. Often I feel like "I could do that!" Now having tried a few times I'm more willing to pay for tools, especially non-subscription ones.
- ebiester 5y ago
  I agree to the payment. I disagree to the subscription model. I absolutely would try to hook users on any SaaS. However, I go out of my way to avoid such products. If I can pay for them once, I much prefer it. (For something like jetbrains, I'm okay with a renewal fee because if I choose not to pay it, I can still use the older version.) I make an exception for Bitwarden because I like the idea of my password manager having continual security updates. However, it's one of the most frustrating parts of the webification of services - I want to pay for things once, and choose if I want the expanded features at any given time.
  - Terretta 5y ago
    > For something like jetbrains, I'm okay with a renewal fee because if I choose not to pay it, I can still use the older version. 110% agreement. Further, the only thing I like less than subscriptions is IAP not of new feature sets but ‘pay-to-play’ where the mechanics of use are negatively distorted to gamify purchase impulse. I’ve argued — here, since inception of IAP on Apple’s app store — that the worst thing Apple has done to consumers was normalize removing the ability to show only single purchase paid apps in the app store. An vast class of less fortunate consumers either resign to less utility or waste time on an artificial “grind”, to encourage another class of “whale” to drive corporate revenues. I don’t mind extracting cash from whales who can afford it. I do have a problem inflicting artificial digital scarcity of utility or enjoyment on the masses to create the ‘hook’ for whales. As for subscriptions, it’s not clear to me that the treadmill of software/hardware upgrades is benefiting core use cases. I like paying for generational or disruptive change, “voting with my wallet” on what’s of worth to me, but after a couple decades of purchasing generations of Adobe software only when the features mattered to my work, I moved from Adobe to e.g. Affinity and feature sets I own instead of rent when these recurring subscriptions don’t appear to meaningfully benefit my productivity or output. For instance, it’s remarkable to me how similar the principles are between today’s (re-)emergence of Markdown for document composition and the early WordStar / WordPerfect / AppleWriter tools of the 80’s. I also like the experimentation by these Makers in ability to purchase a ‘pinned’ feature set, or support ongoing refinement. (Editors whether text or code, like JetBrains mentioned, seem to have a jump on this clever — and rare positive — use of IAP.) It’s difficult to show what increased utility of word processing has come from the most recent 20 years of paying for word processing upgrades. Today’s dev efforts suggest the sweet spot may be 30 years back. The flip side of this, economic models are still dissatisfying for affordability of basic bricks and mortar world rights such as housing. The least worst answer appears to be rent (with a dystopian jag into ad-supported!), and it may be the least worst for software is rent as well. Except when the ongoing annual software rents have risen to the same cost as one-time purchase (again, Adobe!), contrary to bricks and mortar where the over under is often 7 years of possession and use. Back to artificial digital scarcity — I’m concerned that advertiser funded access to quality writing is losing ground to monthly subscriptions for content. Are less fortunate kids going to be able to subscribe to NY Times, WaPo, Atlantic, Guardian, National Review, American Spectator, and so on, for $5 a month each? (News aggregations such as Next Issue could resolve this, but even as Apple’s “News+” this struggles.) Even more dissatisfying when a print publication goes down the same path as cable, first charging for something that was free, then eventually layering in the same ad content as when it was free. Artificial scarcity based IAP, data-broker supported (ad supported is fine, individual data for content is not), and the descent into the ironic sounding “gacha” model for software or content happy meals (utilities, clickers, news, etc.) — something thoughtful has to shift before we’re living in a future less Roddenberry than Idiocracy.
colordrops 5y ago
I thought Bitwarden is open source. Is it not a standard license? Can you not fork it and change its behavior?
- nucleardog 5y ago
  Yes. The license check is relatively easy to bypass, and there are also forks and reimplementations out there that already do so.
- YPPH 5y ago
  It's $10 per year. Is it really worth your time forking it to remove licence checks, when you could instead support the developers and not need to make any code changes? Forking the code and removing licencing checks is perfectly permissible under the GPL. But it's pretty unreasonable in this case.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    I don't disagree with you, but I was asking about the following: > but it seems to have some license purchase requirements even for the self-hosted options which doesn't appear to be completely true, regardless of whether you think it's worth your time or or reasonable.
ryandrake 5y ago
I've used pwsafe[1] for years, maybe over a decade. Multiple platforms supported, although macOS and iOS versions are paid (one time payment, no subscription). Store your vault anywhere you want. 1: https://pwsafe.org https://pwsafe.org
saghm 5y ago
> I’ve looked at KeePassXC and Bitwarden. The former isn’t easy to use for sharing and sharing permissions. For a while, I used KeePassXC work my encrypted database file checked into my Dropbox storage. That allowed me to sync my passwords between devices but not give the cloud provider any way of knowing the passwords (since my KeePassXC master password was not stored anywhere besides in my brain). Unfortunately, Dropbox eventually changed their Android app so that synced files no longer were stored on the local filesystem, so adding a new password from Android or getting the new passwords from other devices would require manually uploading/downloading the file through the Dropbox app. I somewhat suspect this change was due to Dropbox eventually adding their own password management functionality to the app, but I didn't consider that until later, so I'm not sure how the timings lined up. In age case, after weighing my options I ended up deciding to just switch over to Bitwarden. (The migration was extremely easy; I was able to export the KeePassXC database file locally to XML file and then import that into my newly-creates Bitwarden account without any issues).
- charles_f 5y ago
  KeePass2android is a keepassXC client that supports the likes of Dropbox. It seems to fit what you need. How does Bitwarden compare to Keepass?
resheku 5y ago
https://github.com/nextcloud/passman https://github.com/nextcloud/passman is the closest one to my needs - self-hosted on docker - mobile app and browser extension - sharing secrets and storing files - api
rcarmo 5y ago
I would consider Bitwarden if it synced via iCloud with my phone. Relying on any other service would be a step back for me.
- thunfischbrot 5y ago
  For me its the opposite: Having Bitwarden separate (selfhosted or even their hosting) let's me even more iCloud services to become less reliant on Apple.
- 8fingerlouie 5y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I don't want to selfhost anything. I've spend enough years doing that. All i really need is an encrypted file that can be synchronized using a cloud of my choice.
novok 5y ago
Bitwarden is OSS and if you want to really not pay for such a feature, you can strip out the license check code fairly trivially. I think its a good balance.

by AnonC 5y ago

gizdan 5y ago

You can self-host vaultwarden (formerly bitwarden_rs), which gives full enterprise functionality.

fy20 5y ago
I do this, works perfectly for sharing common passwords among my family (streaming services and utilities mainly). I moved from 1Password, and my main gripe with Bitwarden are the apps aren't as polished. If it's not too expensive I'd consider switching back (1Password family is $60 per year, so I assume this will be less).
- afavour 5y ago
  I had the exact same experience. I don’t want to care about the app UI etc but when you use a password manager as often as you do it really matters. Not to mention selling the idea to less tech-savvy family members, it really does have to be as simple as can be.
  - hanklazard 5y ago
    I self-host Bitwarden_rs and use the client apps on Windows, Linux, and MacOS. To me, the UI seems very usable, polished and attractive. It doesn’t seem that different from 1Password, which I switched from a few years ago. What exactly about the UI needs improvement?
    - afavour 5y ago
      The mobile apps were the primary problem for me. Regrettably it was long enough ago that I can’t remember all the details but I’m pretty sure at the time it didn’t support TouchID for one.
      - hanklazard 5y ago
        I'd say give it another try sometime! The mobile app (I've only used the iOS version) is very usable and has FaceID support for those that want it. Also, safari can work with the app to pull passwords quickly. I'm just really grateful this project exists. I've tried most of the major password managers out there and I feel like BW/VW is the clear winner, especially if you're willing to host your own server. If not, their pricing for an annual personal account is incredibly reasonable.
    - gizdan 5y ago
      Personally the UI itself is fine. The UX on the other hand not so much. - Firefox Extension doesn't work fully in a private window in Firefox. - Extension loses data when you click away from it. - Extension is hard to navigate using keyboard - e.g. there is no way to copy specific username/password/otp code. There is lots more issues.
      - hanklazard 5y ago
        Good to know, extensions always feel like the weak link in password manager security (again, not a developer so happy to be proven wrong here) so I don't use them. I always just copy out of the desktop app (Ctrl + P), still a really fast keyboard-only workflow once you get used to it.
    - 5y ago
  - karmanyaahm 5y ago
    my less savvy family members all use bitwarden with sharing and don't see any major problems fwiw ymmw
- ibdf 5y ago
  I find this surprising. I’ve been using Bitwarden for a few years now… the mobile app is easy to use. They even make MFA painless by automatically copying the code after the password is entered. The browser extensions seem to work fine too. Perhaps the web app is not as clean, but I rarely use it.
- j1elo 5y ago
  I'm paying for a Bitwarden subscription because I want to support their product and their vision. But I don't know, time passes and some much needed improvements don't seem to arrive. The most glaring issue (for me, anyway; I fully understand I'm just a sample size of 1!) they have is relying on the pop-up UI of the browser, which I guess is stateless (state is lost when the popup closes, it seems?). The decision of using this UI was already wrong from its inception, IMHO, not sure why they thought it would be a good idea. But more surprising is that they haven't yet moved to the much more reliable and user friendly method of opening their UI on a new tab, which was a no brainer when using LastPass. Oh well. They said to have this in the backlog, so hopefully it gets some attention sooner than later... but in the meantime the end users are faced with silly issues like this, software that loses user data should not be a concern in the first place, and for sure they won't care about some technical explanation about how the browser handles pop-up windows. (for anyone interested: https://community.bitwarden.com/t/persist-bitwarden-ui-and-maintain-entered-data-previously-unsaved-changes-are-lost-when-move-to-another-item/5470/20 https://community.bitwarden.com/t/persist-bitwarden-ui-and-m...)
  - gizdan 5y ago
    It gets worse. Their browser extension doesn't work when using a private window in Firefox. The GitHub issue[0] around it was raised in 2017. They've been blaming Mozilla for deprecating and subsequently removing an API. It's pretty ridiculous. [0] https://github.com/bitwarden/browser/issues/136 https://github.com/bitwarden/browser/issues/136
    - decrypt 5y ago
      I thought it was just me where Bitwarden didn't work on the private window.
  - bruckie 5y ago
    Tavis Ormandy (of Google Project Zero) has a pretty convincing post arguing that relying on browser extensions that modify the DOM (which includes [almost?] all password managers) is a bad idea: https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/passmgrs.html https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/passmgrs.html (he recommends using your browser's built-in password manager, which isn't as convenient but is much more secure)
- ziml77 5y ago
  That lack of polish and lack of improvement over the couple years I used Bitwarden are why I switched back to 1Password. Being open-source is not a free pass to ignore issues like that.
8fingerlouie 5y ago
You can indeed, but only if you accept what follows. You will be in charge of maintaining critical infrastructure, as well as keeping it safe from attackers. My biggest complaint about the 1Password8 situation is that i've been "self hosting" version 7 for years using iCloud sync, and it has worked perfectly. I have my 1Password vault on every device for "free". With family sharing in iTunes, i had it for every family member for "free" as well. With version 8 they're taking that away, and instead trying to push me to a $5/month subscription that essentially does the same thing. I have faithfully purchased every version up until now, and had they kept local vaults/iCloud sync i would have purchased the next one as well. As it is now, self-hosted or not, i will be looking for something else. Afterall, all i really need is an encrypted file on a cloud share. Unix Pass would be great if it didn't leak information about which sites you have logins for. "Easily" fixable by using Pass Tomb, but sadly that's not available on iOS.
- gizdan 5y ago
  Totally agree, and I notice a lot of people just blindly go down the hosting Vaultwarden route. There's a trade-off that everyone needs to consider, and much of it depends entirely on their skill level. Having said, I'm all for self-hosting and I hope it continues to become prevalent.
  - 8fingerlouie 5y ago
    I'm also all for self-hosting, but there's a difference between hosting things for your LAN, and hosting things available on the internet. Most people have no clue about the amount of work required to runs things in a secure, redundant and resilient way. And no, a RaspberryPi in the corner, running on your LAN probably won't cut it. At least not for me.

xerxesaa 5y ago

When looking into KeePassXC, did you specifically look into the KeeShare[1] feature? As long as you have some common place to read/write a file, you can share a subset of your credentials. I agree this is not as easy as hosted solution like Bitwarden, but KeePass was always designed to be a non-hosted solution, so I think this is about as good as they can do. 1 - https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide.html#_database_sharing_with_keeshare https://keepassxc.org/docs/KeePassXC_UserGuide.html#_databas...

AnonC 5y ago
GP here. Yes, I did look at the KeeShare feature, and that's what I had in mind when I said seemed not as easy to use. I'll have to read more and try it out practically.

mohammedhdotio 5y ago

I've been using psono for a few months now https://psono.com/ https://psono.com/ .

AnonC 5y ago
Thanks a lot for this suggestion. It looks like what I need.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pscoutou 5y ago

> They made the standalone license almost impossible to find and get, forced a subscription on users, and made the password vault storage online for the subscriptions. 1Password recently raised $100 million at a $2 billion valuation. Looks like they're going down the Dropbox path. Shame as 1Password used to be one of my favorite apps.

runlevel1 5y ago
Hidden for now, gone in the next release. Source: https://1password.community/discussion/115018/support-for-local-vaults/p3#:~:text=the%20new%20releases%20do%20not%20have%20support%20for%20local/standalone%20vaults%20and%201Password%207%20will%20be%20the%20last%20version%20to%20support%20them https://1password.community/discussion/115018/support-for-lo...

CrimsonRain 5y ago

Enpass works nicely. I can freely share vaults and keep vaults backed up in anyway I prefer. Two downsides: 1. Mobile is paid I think 2. Not open source

mehanik 5y ago
Agree, I have been using it for years. It has a nice, non-browser based client on all platforms including Linux.
Ecstatify 5y ago
Personally I don't recommend Enpass. They switched to a subscription model like every other password manager. They don't host your data so have no recurring expense, I don't understand how they can justify the subscription model. They have no real innovation, they added an "Audit Feature" for an additional €26.49 per year.
- tw04 5y ago
  They appear to have a lifetime option? “Enpass lifetime premium: $79.99”
- CrimsonRain 5y ago
  Sorry; I didn't know. I got the "pro" version long ago for iOS and they have basically retained that (kinda upgraded for free as now I can use on all devices). I think it cost me $10 or something. So amazing for me. Now the same deal is $80 which I think is still ok but on the high side. I like their hands off approach. Password autofill/save etc are also far better than most other password managers (esp bitwarden).

Cosmin_C 5y ago

Previous 1Password user here. Switched to KeePass, still figuring out the ins and outs, but looks quite nice in the options it provides.

tqkxzugoaupvwqr 5y ago

Are you saying there is as standalone version of 1Password 7? Does it support vault sync via iCloud?

geerlingguy 5y ago
I use it with a vault synced via Dropbox. I'd never given their subscription service a second thought. Didn't realize it was so hard to buy that option.
bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
Yes and yes
AnonC 5y ago
GP here. Yes, there is a standalone version, but you'd have to know specific incantations and rituals to find out how and where to get it. It's purposely hidden away from the homepage and other pages about the product and pricing.
- thunfischbrot 5y ago
  Exactly. I moved away from 1Password for that reason, quite happy with Bitwarden.

api 5y ago

> Is there any password management application out there that makes sharing passwords or password vaults easy but is also free? If there isn’t something out there that is free, there are two options: 1. Make one. 2. Stop complaining.

Terretta 5y ago

> Is there any password management application out there that makes sharing passwords or password vaults easy but is also free? For members of a relatively well-paid profession earning good wages from creating software, I wonder if the reluctance to support others earning money for quality work isn’t some form of cognitive dissonance. // Pre-emptive “edit” before this comment has replies: Folks post a lot of arguments for “free” software any time there’s a comment such as mine — but justifications largely feel like post-hoc rationalizations conflating freedom of information and ideas with freedom from paying for value, ret-con’d stories we tell ourselves. I call BS — unless one is independently wealthy, to spend maker time on art or craft requires one to either earn money or enjoy patronage. Tools for work are more craft than art, and deserve to earn, especially as patronage or maker communes are in short supply. Not to mention the exercise of ethnocentric privilege implicit in demanding something of quality in exchange for nothing assured.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
My guess is it's over confidence, at least in my case. Often I feel like "I could do that!" Now having tried a few times I'm more willing to pay for tools, especially non-subscription ones.
ebiester 5y ago
I agree to the payment. I disagree to the subscription model. I absolutely would try to hook users on any SaaS. However, I go out of my way to avoid such products. If I can pay for them once, I much prefer it. (For something like jetbrains, I'm okay with a renewal fee because if I choose not to pay it, I can still use the older version.) I make an exception for Bitwarden because I like the idea of my password manager having continual security updates. However, it's one of the most frustrating parts of the webification of services - I want to pay for things once, and choose if I want the expanded features at any given time.
- Terretta 5y ago
  > For something like jetbrains, I'm okay with a renewal fee because if I choose not to pay it, I can still use the older version. 110% agreement. Further, the only thing I like less than subscriptions is IAP not of new feature sets but ‘pay-to-play’ where the mechanics of use are negatively distorted to gamify purchase impulse. I’ve argued — here, since inception of IAP on Apple’s app store — that the worst thing Apple has done to consumers was normalize removing the ability to show only single purchase paid apps in the app store. An vast class of less fortunate consumers either resign to less utility or waste time on an artificial “grind”, to encourage another class of “whale” to drive corporate revenues. I don’t mind extracting cash from whales who can afford it. I do have a problem inflicting artificial digital scarcity of utility or enjoyment on the masses to create the ‘hook’ for whales. As for subscriptions, it’s not clear to me that the treadmill of software/hardware upgrades is benefiting core use cases. I like paying for generational or disruptive change, “voting with my wallet” on what’s of worth to me, but after a couple decades of purchasing generations of Adobe software only when the features mattered to my work, I moved from Adobe to e.g. Affinity and feature sets I own instead of rent when these recurring subscriptions don’t appear to meaningfully benefit my productivity or output. For instance, it’s remarkable to me how similar the principles are between today’s (re-)emergence of Markdown for document composition and the early WordStar / WordPerfect / AppleWriter tools of the 80’s. I also like the experimentation by these Makers in ability to purchase a ‘pinned’ feature set, or support ongoing refinement. (Editors whether text or code, like JetBrains mentioned, seem to have a jump on this clever — and rare positive — use of IAP.) It’s difficult to show what increased utility of word processing has come from the most recent 20 years of paying for word processing upgrades. Today’s dev efforts suggest the sweet spot may be 30 years back. The flip side of this, economic models are still dissatisfying for affordability of basic bricks and mortar world rights such as housing. The least worst answer appears to be rent (with a dystopian jag into ad-supported!), and it may be the least worst for software is rent as well. Except when the ongoing annual software rents have risen to the same cost as one-time purchase (again, Adobe!), contrary to bricks and mortar where the over under is often 7 years of possession and use. Back to artificial digital scarcity — I’m concerned that advertiser funded access to quality writing is losing ground to monthly subscriptions for content. Are less fortunate kids going to be able to subscribe to NY Times, WaPo, Atlantic, Guardian, National Review, American Spectator, and so on, for $5 a month each? (News aggregations such as Next Issue could resolve this, but even as Apple’s “News+” this struggles.) Even more dissatisfying when a print publication goes down the same path as cable, first charging for something that was free, then eventually layering in the same ad content as when it was free. Artificial scarcity based IAP, data-broker supported (ad supported is fine, individual data for content is not), and the descent into the ironic sounding “gacha” model for software or content happy meals (utilities, clickers, news, etc.) — something thoughtful has to shift before we’re living in a future less Roddenberry than Idiocracy.

colordrops 5y ago

I thought Bitwarden is open source. Is it not a standard license? Can you not fork it and change its behavior?

nucleardog 5y ago
Yes. The license check is relatively easy to bypass, and there are also forks and reimplementations out there that already do so.
YPPH 5y ago
It's $10 per year. Is it really worth your time forking it to remove licence checks, when you could instead support the developers and not need to make any code changes? Forking the code and removing licencing checks is perfectly permissible under the GPL. But it's pretty unreasonable in this case.
- colordrops 5y ago
  I don't disagree with you, but I was asking about the following: > but it seems to have some license purchase requirements even for the self-hosted options which doesn't appear to be completely true, regardless of whether you think it's worth your time or or reasonable.

ryandrake 5y ago

I've used pwsafe[1] for years, maybe over a decade. Multiple platforms supported, although macOS and iOS versions are paid (one time payment, no subscription). Store your vault anywhere you want. 1: https://pwsafe.org https://pwsafe.org

saghm 5y ago

> I’ve looked at KeePassXC and Bitwarden. The former isn’t easy to use for sharing and sharing permissions. For a while, I used KeePassXC work my encrypted database file checked into my Dropbox storage. That allowed me to sync my passwords between devices but not give the cloud provider any way of knowing the passwords (since my KeePassXC master password was not stored anywhere besides in my brain). Unfortunately, Dropbox eventually changed their Android app so that synced files no longer were stored on the local filesystem, so adding a new password from Android or getting the new passwords from other devices would require manually uploading/downloading the file through the Dropbox app. I somewhat suspect this change was due to Dropbox eventually adding their own password management functionality to the app, but I didn't consider that until later, so I'm not sure how the timings lined up. In age case, after weighing my options I ended up deciding to just switch over to Bitwarden. (The migration was extremely easy; I was able to export the KeePassXC database file locally to XML file and then import that into my newly-creates Bitwarden account without any issues).

charles_f 5y ago
KeePass2android is a keepassXC client that supports the likes of Dropbox. It seems to fit what you need. How does Bitwarden compare to Keepass?

resheku 5y ago

https://github.com/nextcloud/passman https://github.com/nextcloud/passman is the closest one to my needs - self-hosted on docker - mobile app and browser extension - sharing secrets and storing files - api

rcarmo 5y ago

I would consider Bitwarden if it synced via iCloud with my phone. Relying on any other service would be a step back for me.

thunfischbrot 5y ago
For me its the opposite: Having Bitwarden separate (selfhosted or even their hosting) let's me even more iCloud services to become less reliant on Apple.
8fingerlouie 5y ago
I'm in the same boat. I don't want to selfhost anything. I've spend enough years doing that. All i really need is an encrypted file that can be synchronized using a cloud of my choice.

novok 5y ago

Bitwarden is OSS and if you want to really not pay for such a feature, you can strip out the license check code fairly trivially. I think its a good balance.