8 ms·

Add up the roads, parking spaces, parking garages, gas stations (not to mention auto shops, drive thrus and car washes) and the total urban footprint is a garga

Add up the roads, parking spaces, parking garages, gas stations (not to mention auto shops, drive thrus and car washes) and the total urban footprint is a gargantuan 50-60% by many calculations. That's not automatically a bad thing, especially if you are a car, but all of that space creates massive buffers separating all of the other stuff that humans want to walk to. To make it worse, those buffers are far and away the most dangerous thing in any urban environment. On the bright side, the pandemic seems have enabled many cities to finally reclaim some of that car land for use by people. Though it's not clear how long that will last.

kiba 5y ago
I often joke that aliens would mistake the cars, not people, to be the dominant intelligent species of this planet.
- nickff 5y ago
  That joke is made early in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (by Douglas Adams), and is why one of the major characters is named "Ford Prefect".
- makerofspoons 5y ago
  There's a great Canadian cartoon that explored that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaHArkYLsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaHArkYLsM
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    > "The National Film Board of Mars presents: WHAT ON EARTH!" This is great, what fun!
  - aix1 5y ago
    Amazing, thanks so much for sharing! P.S. The section on reproduction is hilarious.
- whatever_dude 5y ago
  That's the entire premise of classic Transformers.
notJim 5y ago
Something I only recently learned is that zoning rules generally require housing developments to include a certain amount of parking. This drives up the cost of housing, because of the space required (either up or out.) Many cities are reducing or eliminating these requirements in an effort to make housing more affordable. However, it does mean that parking will become harder, as there will be more competition for street spaces.
- foxpurple 5y ago
  You can reset your costs by renting out the car park. I make $50 AUD/week renting out my city car park to someone who works near by.
  - notJim 5y ago
    That's interesting, but I doubt it would be allowed by most apartment leases, and I think for townhomes, many people wouldn't want some rando parking in their garage.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    In many places outside urban cores in the US, the rules are such that the amount of parking created is far in excess of demand. You could try and rent your spot, but it would be pointless. Inside urban cores the parking is frequently underground and gated off so that it makes it hard to rent out without breaking the security rules for your building. At the last place I lived in Vancouver, BC there was 2 levels of underground parking for 3 stories of living space. It is absolutely wild to think that a building along a major transit corridor was required to reserve 2/5 of their building for private vehicles in a city that is famously progressive with transit (for north america)
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Not just housing developments. Virtually all development tends to be mandated to provide large amounts of car parking.
- simonsarris 5y ago
  a certain amount of parking and certain "setbacks", a mandated distance from the road, which also increases the lot size required.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
There's a great illustration by Karl Jilg that has stuck with me along the same lines... calling them buffers is very generous! https://www.businessinsider.com/car-illustration-karl-jilg-2017-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/car-illustration-karl-jilg-2...
notatoad 5y ago
i was just reading an article in my local paper this morning about a new building in town that got a zoning variance approved. it's a ten-unit visitor accomodation development, and they have ten parking stalls on the property (which is less than the minimum parking spaces code requires). there was apparently a 45-minute debate at the council meeting where neighbours were arguing that the development should be denied because ten parking spaces wasn't enough for ten units. of visitor accomodation. because apparently people go on holidays with multiple cars.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  During holidays, visitors can mean many more than two additional cars per family. Living in that building means choosing not to entertain friends and family, or irritating the crap out of your neighbors by taking up the parking. If they're lucky, they'll be communicative and work out parking custody, but more than likely it'll be a resentful petty mess.
  - notatoad 5y ago
    it is visitor accomodation - like a hotel. nobody lives in it, it's just ten hotel suites.
titzer 5y ago
When I moved to LA, I did the following calculation. Average number of cars per person, 2/3 x Number of people in greater LA area, 16M = 10M. 10M cars x average parking spot is 7ft x 15, 105 sq ft = 1 billion sq ft. 1 billion sq ft to square miles = 36 square miles. That's a square 6 miles on a side. Just to park the cars once. There is at least 3x that number of spots in the city. A hundred square miles of parking. No kidding. Also, the city of LA maintains 5000+ miles of street parking. The scale is mind boggling. And the cost is astronomical. The cost of real estate is estimated at $2.7 million per acre. Those hundred square miles are worth close to $200 billion.
- newyankee 5y ago
  Someone had calculated that the urban sprawl king city of Houston was 40% parking space or something
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    I have to wonder how much of the city overall is used for cars -- roads, highways, and the "buffer" land surrounding them (like the land in and around a highway interchange); parking lots and their access streets; businesses dedicated to servicing cars, like gas stations... It's probably a lot.
  - Fricken 5y ago
    Houston leads the USA and, and I would assume the world in parking, with an estimated 30 parking spaces per resident. Office parking lots in Houston during work hours are, on average, 30% empty.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Speaking of real estate, does anyone have data on the impact of personal range on the ability of land owners to extract rent? The feeling I get from sampling shopping experiences at various levels of density is that higher density means higher rent and higher prices. Cars are enormously wasteful in a physics sense, but in an economic sense they do wonders to commoditize our complements, and I fear that getting rid of high-range infrastructure would take us out of the frying pan and into the fire.
lumost 5y ago
The big challenge is having both shared urban infrastructure and personal cars that aren’t a luxury. Cities should focus on keeping cars out of the center to the maximum extent possible.
pomian 5y ago
Pavement does not absorb rain water, and causes flooding. Pavement causes heating, and raises local temperatures. More pavement, the greater the additive effect. Pavement replaces vegetation and black soil. The results should be pretty obvious. Skipping the whole CO2 debate, and just look at that.

kiba 5y ago

I often joke that aliens would mistake the cars, not people, to be the dominant intelligent species of this planet.

nickff 5y ago
That joke is made early in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" (by Douglas Adams), and is why one of the major characters is named "Ford Prefect".
makerofspoons 5y ago
There's a great Canadian cartoon that explored that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaHArkYLsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaHArkYLsM
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  > "The National Film Board of Mars presents: WHAT ON EARTH!" This is great, what fun!
- aix1 5y ago
  Amazing, thanks so much for sharing! P.S. The section on reproduction is hilarious.
whatever_dude 5y ago
That's the entire premise of classic Transformers.

notJim 5y ago

Something I only recently learned is that zoning rules generally require housing developments to include a certain amount of parking. This drives up the cost of housing, because of the space required (either up or out.) Many cities are reducing or eliminating these requirements in an effort to make housing more affordable. However, it does mean that parking will become harder, as there will be more competition for street spaces.

foxpurple 5y ago
You can reset your costs by renting out the car park. I make $50 AUD/week renting out my city car park to someone who works near by.
- notJim 5y ago
  That's interesting, but I doubt it would be allowed by most apartment leases, and I think for townhomes, many people wouldn't want some rando parking in their garage.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  In many places outside urban cores in the US, the rules are such that the amount of parking created is far in excess of demand. You could try and rent your spot, but it would be pointless. Inside urban cores the parking is frequently underground and gated off so that it makes it hard to rent out without breaking the security rules for your building. At the last place I lived in Vancouver, BC there was 2 levels of underground parking for 3 stories of living space. It is absolutely wild to think that a building along a major transit corridor was required to reserve 2/5 of their building for private vehicles in a city that is famously progressive with transit (for north america)
TulliusCicero 5y ago
Not just housing developments. Virtually all development tends to be mandated to provide large amounts of car parking.
simonsarris 5y ago
a certain amount of parking and certain "setbacks", a mandated distance from the road, which also increases the lot size required.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

There's a great illustration by Karl Jilg that has stuck with me along the same lines... calling them buffers is very generous! https://www.businessinsider.com/car-illustration-karl-jilg-2017-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/car-illustration-karl-jilg-2...

notatoad 5y ago

i was just reading an article in my local paper this morning about a new building in town that got a zoning variance approved. it's a ten-unit visitor accomodation development, and they have ten parking stalls on the property (which is less than the minimum parking spaces code requires). there was apparently a 45-minute debate at the council meeting where neighbours were arguing that the development should be denied because ten parking spaces wasn't enough for ten units. of visitor accomodation. because apparently people go on holidays with multiple cars.

robbedpeter 5y ago
During holidays, visitors can mean many more than two additional cars per family. Living in that building means choosing not to entertain friends and family, or irritating the crap out of your neighbors by taking up the parking. If they're lucky, they'll be communicative and work out parking custody, but more than likely it'll be a resentful petty mess.
- notatoad 5y ago
  it is visitor accomodation - like a hotel. nobody lives in it, it's just ten hotel suites.

titzer 5y ago

When I moved to LA, I did the following calculation. Average number of cars per person, 2/3 x Number of people in greater LA area, 16M = 10M. 10M cars x average parking spot is 7ft x 15, 105 sq ft = 1 billion sq ft. 1 billion sq ft to square miles = 36 square miles. That's a square 6 miles on a side. Just to park the cars once. There is at least 3x that number of spots in the city. A hundred square miles of parking. No kidding. Also, the city of LA maintains 5000+ miles of street parking. The scale is mind boggling. And the cost is astronomical. The cost of real estate is estimated at $2.7 million per acre. Those hundred square miles are worth close to $200 billion.

newyankee 5y ago
Someone had calculated that the urban sprawl king city of Houston was 40% parking space or something
- duskwuff 5y ago
  I have to wonder how much of the city overall is used for cars -- roads, highways, and the "buffer" land surrounding them (like the land in and around a highway interchange); parking lots and their access streets; businesses dedicated to servicing cars, like gas stations... It's probably a lot.
- Fricken 5y ago
  Houston leads the USA and, and I would assume the world in parking, with an estimated 30 parking spaces per resident. Office parking lots in Houston during work hours are, on average, 30% empty.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Speaking of real estate, does anyone have data on the impact of personal range on the ability of land owners to extract rent? The feeling I get from sampling shopping experiences at various levels of density is that higher density means higher rent and higher prices. Cars are enormously wasteful in a physics sense, but in an economic sense they do wonders to commoditize our complements, and I fear that getting rid of high-range infrastructure would take us out of the frying pan and into the fire.

lumost 5y ago

The big challenge is having both shared urban infrastructure and personal cars that aren’t a luxury. Cities should focus on keeping cars out of the center to the maximum extent possible.

pomian 5y ago

Pavement does not absorb rain water, and causes flooding. Pavement causes heating, and raises local temperatures. More pavement, the greater the additive effect. Pavement replaces vegetation and black soil. The results should be pretty obvious. Skipping the whole CO2 debate, and just look at that.