7 ms·

Its really a great system we have here --- get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans who pay tons more for basic services and then when it's time to pay b

Its really a great system we have here --- get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans who pay tons more for basic services and then when it's time to pay back run off and keep your change. No wonder America is doing so well.

rob_c 5y ago
not just America, the 0.01% around the world are all learning this lesson...
- djKianoosh 5y ago
  so where are they all going?
  - betaby 5y ago
    Some to Singapore https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/11/facebook-billionaire-gives-up-citizenship-to-escape-bad-american-tax-policy/?sh=1321e3fe1995 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/11/faceb...
  - papito 5y ago
    According to the Bible, nowhere good.
    - jkepler 5y ago
      What biblical reference are you alluding to? I'm not sure how its relevant to the question of where the rich who leave the USA go?
      - Thiez 5y ago
        It's all terribly off-topic, but presumably they are talking about Matthew 19:24, which says (ymmv based on your exact translation): "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
        koonsolo 5y ago
        Seems like the top of the Catholic Church will not go to heaven then ;)
        jkepler 5y ago
        Thanks. Yes, off-topic. Particularly considering that according to Genesis 13:2, Abraham (key for Paul's argument in Romans 4 for justification by faith) was "very rich in gold, silver, and cattle", and that in 1 Timothy 6, Paul warns Timothy not against riches per se, but against " the love of money". Biblically speaking, its not whether one is rich or not, but whether one loves (or worships) riches and the associated power, or whether one uses his or her riches to serve God and love one's neighbor. Thus Paul wrote of learning to be content in plenty or in want, and James warns of not showing favoritism to the rich (echoing perhaps the Old Testament command to not pervert justice in favor of the poor or of the rich). Trying to tie this thread back into the topic.... I guess it was good that when Abram emigrated from Ur in his home country, the Chaldeans Revenue Service didn't have the steep exit tax that the US imposes on rich emigrants.
        papito 5y ago
        I should have specified, the New Testament is particularly anti-wealth and pro helping the disadvantaged. The Old Testament is like the internet - you can always find horrible examples to reinforce your beliefs.
        ttyprintk 5y ago
        James 5 1-6 came to mind.
  - bovermyer 5y ago
    The UAE sees a lot of wealthy expats from various countries move in.
  - the_lonely_road 5y ago
    New Zealand it seems. An island country of 5 million with some of the most expensive real estate and highest suicide rates of the developed world.
    - mkl 5y ago
      Where did you get that statistic? According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r..., the USA's suicide rate is ~40% higher than NZ's.
    - sumedh 5y ago
      > highest suicide rates of the developed world. If I am not mistaken most of those suicides are among the Maori people not the white people of NZ.
      - richwater 5y ago
        Yea thanks for clearing that up. The native people don't count.
        sumedh 5y ago
        No you should first understand the cause of the suicides before lumping them with the rest of the developed world.
  - anovikov 5y ago
    UAE for effectively zero taxes. New Zealand as it is rumoured although i don't believe it - for someone not rich enough to own a private jet where you can properly sleep, it is TOO far away from... just about anywhere. Singapore. Some of the Southern and Eastern Europe for those not rich enough.
Fidelix 5y ago
Pay back? You mean get robbed a bit more?
- janeroe 5y ago
  It's our cow and we're to milk it!
ninja3925 5y ago
“Off the back” sounds like the wealthy took advantage of folks when, in fact, they entered voluntary contracts in a win-win scenario. Creating a company is not exploitative but rather collaborative and mutually beneficial (with workers).
- igorkraw 5y ago
  I feel like you'd have to give some evidence for the claims you are making (voluntary, win-win, creating a company being collaborative...) as long as the US doesn't have free health care,free housing and/or some form of UBI. "Take job where you have to pee in bottles or live in squalor" doesn't seem that voluntary to me
  - azth 5y ago
    The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the evidence. Forming a company (that doesn't work in immoral areas) is a perfectly ethical and legal way of making money. UBI is not the only solution. Islamic countries have for over 1400 years had the Zakat system, which provides for the poor and needy.
    - libbroscrubber 5y ago
      Wealth inequality is proof of exploitation. Look at CEO to worker pay. The capitalists have the system rigged.
    - igorkraw 5y ago
      Yeah and I asked OP to provide evidence for their claims. Forming a company is not the same as making money of your workers, and just because it's allowed under the current rules doesn't mean it's ethical. Qnd regarding zakat, I know too little about it, but I'm wary of any solution which boils down to "charity" because that makes the receivers dependent on keeping their benefactors happy.
  - engineer_22 5y ago
    There are many places in the United States that have free healthcare, free or reduced price housing, and assistance payments for the poor and sick or injured. These things are paid for with public money through government programs. Personally I think everyone deserves a certain level of dignity, especially when they're going through hard times. But I've also seen plenty of examples of people who "work the system", which makes it harder to get funding for social welfare programs.
Aunche 5y ago
America has one of the most progressive tax system of any country. https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2020-update/ https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-inco... >The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent). IMO, this is one of this is why the American government seems so bad at spending money. It's not their money, so there's little incentive to care if it's misappropriated.
- trainsplanes 5y ago
  What percent of wealth does the top 1% possess vs the bottom 90 percent combined? Wikipedia says the top 1% possesses precisely 38.5% of the country's wealth, so it's more than reasonable that they shoulder at least 38.5% of the taxes. [1] This stat is also from 2016. That divide has grown immensely these past few years. The stat the Tax Foundation presents is made to make us sympathetic towards people who control basically the entire nation's wealth and pay, frankly, very little. There's a reason they're not putting their wealth in the EU or developed Asian countries--they'd be paying more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...
  - Aunche 5y ago
    Income and this income taxes are first derivatives of wealth. It doesn't make sense to directly compare the two. The wealthy spend relatively little of their wealth on discretionary spending.
    - sobellian 5y ago
      Ordinary income is not the first derivative of wealth, capital gains also contribute.
    - trainsplanes 5y ago
      >The wealthy spend relatively little of their wealth on discretionary spending. So they have unnecessary wealth just sitting around that they don't need.
734129837261 5y ago
Most people would, if they could, avoid taxes legally to the maximum of their ability. You US folks have created this monstrosity yourselves, too. You let lobbyists (who work for the companies that the richest own) influence politicians, you allow companies to have personhood and other such nonsense. Even the politicians you get to vote on are placed there by said lobbyists and thus the companies that pay for them. Institutionalised, legal, and widely stimulated and motivated corruption is what causes all of this to happen. The rich make the rules, you not liking it can't be fixed because the rich decide what "fixes" are available for you to vote on.
Dma54rhs 5y ago
American wealth is built upon globalized workforce, you're the next on the ladder that is throat cutting capitalist for the next class.
cblconfederate 5y ago
The rest of the world suffers much worse than that. Not only are the rich finding it easier to go to tax havens (because there's no taxation of foreign income), but they are also bleeding their best and most educated (education that they paid for) human capital to the richest cities western europe & us (also americans overall are rich compared to the rest of the world at this time)
DennisP 5y ago
> get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans I find it a bit startling to see this sentiment on HN, a site that used to be mostly full of people building startups, attempting to get wealthy by building something useful that people are happy to pay for.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  A couple of days ago, I learned about an audio processing plugin that apparently (I haven't verified it yet) earned its creator US$1M in 4 months. This is a little blob of code that you load into your DAW and it makes or changes the sounds, and you tweak knobs till it's doing what you want. If you don't see the difference between that and, say, Amazon, then I don't know what to say. The fact that you can trace a line between a scrappy startup in a converted garage somewhere and a behemoth doesn't mean that they are both the same thing.
tech_tuna 5y ago
If I had the means to do so, I would do it just to avoid the politics of the US. Better cuisine is a big driver for me too - hello Italy or France.
Chris2048 5y ago
> get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans You could just as well argue America gets insanely wealthy off the backs of globalist foreign labor. But in that case, no "duty" is owed it's just "fair" trade.

rob_c 5y ago

not just America, the 0.01% around the world are all learning this lesson...

djKianoosh 5y ago
so where are they all going?
- betaby 5y ago
  Some to Singapore https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/11/facebook-billionaire-gives-up-citizenship-to-escape-bad-american-tax-policy/?sh=1321e3fe1995 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/11/faceb...
- papito 5y ago
  According to the Bible, nowhere good.
  - jkepler 5y ago
    What biblical reference are you alluding to? I'm not sure how its relevant to the question of where the rich who leave the USA go?
    - Thiez 5y ago
      It's all terribly off-topic, but presumably they are talking about Matthew 19:24, which says (ymmv based on your exact translation): "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
      - koonsolo 5y ago
        Seems like the top of the Catholic Church will not go to heaven then ;)
      - jkepler 5y ago
        Thanks. Yes, off-topic. Particularly considering that according to Genesis 13:2, Abraham (key for Paul's argument in Romans 4 for justification by faith) was "very rich in gold, silver, and cattle", and that in 1 Timothy 6, Paul warns Timothy not against riches per se, but against " the love of money". Biblically speaking, its not whether one is rich or not, but whether one loves (or worships) riches and the associated power, or whether one uses his or her riches to serve God and love one's neighbor. Thus Paul wrote of learning to be content in plenty or in want, and James warns of not showing favoritism to the rich (echoing perhaps the Old Testament command to not pervert justice in favor of the poor or of the rich). Trying to tie this thread back into the topic.... I guess it was good that when Abram emigrated from Ur in his home country, the Chaldeans Revenue Service didn't have the steep exit tax that the US imposes on rich emigrants.
        papito 5y ago
        I should have specified, the New Testament is particularly anti-wealth and pro helping the disadvantaged. The Old Testament is like the internet - you can always find horrible examples to reinforce your beliefs.
        ttyprintk 5y ago
        James 5 1-6 came to mind.
- bovermyer 5y ago
  The UAE sees a lot of wealthy expats from various countries move in.
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  New Zealand it seems. An island country of 5 million with some of the most expensive real estate and highest suicide rates of the developed world.
  - mkl 5y ago
    Where did you get that statistic? According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r..., the USA's suicide rate is ~40% higher than NZ's.
  - sumedh 5y ago
    > highest suicide rates of the developed world. If I am not mistaken most of those suicides are among the Maori people not the white people of NZ.
    - richwater 5y ago
      Yea thanks for clearing that up. The native people don't count.
      - sumedh 5y ago
        No you should first understand the cause of the suicides before lumping them with the rest of the developed world.
- anovikov 5y ago
  UAE for effectively zero taxes. New Zealand as it is rumoured although i don't believe it - for someone not rich enough to own a private jet where you can properly sleep, it is TOO far away from... just about anywhere. Singapore. Some of the Southern and Eastern Europe for those not rich enough.

Fidelix 5y ago

Pay back? You mean get robbed a bit more?

janeroe 5y ago
It's our cow and we're to milk it!

ninja3925 5y ago

“Off the back” sounds like the wealthy took advantage of folks when, in fact, they entered voluntary contracts in a win-win scenario. Creating a company is not exploitative but rather collaborative and mutually beneficial (with workers).

igorkraw 5y ago
I feel like you'd have to give some evidence for the claims you are making (voluntary, win-win, creating a company being collaborative...) as long as the US doesn't have free health care,free housing and/or some form of UBI. "Take job where you have to pee in bottles or live in squalor" doesn't seem that voluntary to me
- azth 5y ago
  The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the evidence. Forming a company (that doesn't work in immoral areas) is a perfectly ethical and legal way of making money. UBI is not the only solution. Islamic countries have for over 1400 years had the Zakat system, which provides for the poor and needy.
  - libbroscrubber 5y ago
    Wealth inequality is proof of exploitation. Look at CEO to worker pay. The capitalists have the system rigged.
  - igorkraw 5y ago
    Yeah and I asked OP to provide evidence for their claims. Forming a company is not the same as making money of your workers, and just because it's allowed under the current rules doesn't mean it's ethical. Qnd regarding zakat, I know too little about it, but I'm wary of any solution which boils down to "charity" because that makes the receivers dependent on keeping their benefactors happy.
- engineer_22 5y ago
  There are many places in the United States that have free healthcare, free or reduced price housing, and assistance payments for the poor and sick or injured. These things are paid for with public money through government programs. Personally I think everyone deserves a certain level of dignity, especially when they're going through hard times. But I've also seen plenty of examples of people who "work the system", which makes it harder to get funding for social welfare programs.

Aunche 5y ago

America has one of the most progressive tax system of any country. https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2020-update/ https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of-the-latest-federal-inco... >The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.9 percent). IMO, this is one of this is why the American government seems so bad at spending money. It's not their money, so there's little incentive to care if it's misappropriated.

trainsplanes 5y ago
What percent of wealth does the top 1% possess vs the bottom 90 percent combined? Wikipedia says the top 1% possesses precisely 38.5% of the country's wealth, so it's more than reasonable that they shoulder at least 38.5% of the taxes. [1] This stat is also from 2016. That divide has grown immensely these past few years. The stat the Tax Foundation presents is made to make us sympathetic towards people who control basically the entire nation's wealth and pay, frankly, very little. There's a reason they're not putting their wealth in the EU or developed Asian countries--they'd be paying more. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...
- Aunche 5y ago
  Income and this income taxes are first derivatives of wealth. It doesn't make sense to directly compare the two. The wealthy spend relatively little of their wealth on discretionary spending.
  - sobellian 5y ago
    Ordinary income is not the first derivative of wealth, capital gains also contribute.
  - trainsplanes 5y ago
    >The wealthy spend relatively little of their wealth on discretionary spending. So they have unnecessary wealth just sitting around that they don't need.

734129837261 5y ago

Most people would, if they could, avoid taxes legally to the maximum of their ability. You US folks have created this monstrosity yourselves, too. You let lobbyists (who work for the companies that the richest own) influence politicians, you allow companies to have personhood and other such nonsense. Even the politicians you get to vote on are placed there by said lobbyists and thus the companies that pay for them. Institutionalised, legal, and widely stimulated and motivated corruption is what causes all of this to happen. The rich make the rules, you not liking it can't be fixed because the rich decide what "fixes" are available for you to vote on.

Dma54rhs 5y ago

American wealth is built upon globalized workforce, you're the next on the ladder that is throat cutting capitalist for the next class.

cblconfederate 5y ago

The rest of the world suffers much worse than that. Not only are the rich finding it easier to go to tax havens (because there's no taxation of foreign income), but they are also bleeding their best and most educated (education that they paid for) human capital to the richest cities western europe & us (also americans overall are rich compared to the rest of the world at this time)

DennisP 5y ago

> get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans I find it a bit startling to see this sentiment on HN, a site that used to be mostly full of people building startups, attempting to get wealthy by building something useful that people are happy to pay for.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
A couple of days ago, I learned about an audio processing plugin that apparently (I haven't verified it yet) earned its creator US$1M in 4 months. This is a little blob of code that you load into your DAW and it makes or changes the sounds, and you tweak knobs till it's doing what you want. If you don't see the difference between that and, say, Amazon, then I don't know what to say. The fact that you can trace a line between a scrappy startup in a converted garage somewhere and a behemoth doesn't mean that they are both the same thing.

tech_tuna 5y ago

If I had the means to do so, I would do it just to avoid the politics of the US. Better cuisine is a big driver for me too - hello Italy or France.

Chris2048 5y ago

> get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans You could just as well argue America gets insanely wealthy off the backs of globalist foreign labor. But in that case, no "duty" is owed it's just "fair" trade.