4 ms·

I'm not exactly sure which side of the argument you're on here, but ignoring the utility and/or practicality of quarantine on a mass scale, I wouldn't compare i

by timr 5y ago

I'm not exactly sure which side of the argument you're on here, but ignoring the utility and/or practicality of quarantine on a mass scale, I wouldn't compare it to a policy requiring everyone to show their papers to go to McDonalds. It's almost like people are arguing "we did {restrictive policy} once, so any form of restriction is of the same form!" I mean...hell: we had slavery once. So maybe let's set aside the idea that prior infringements of individual liberty justify future infringements of individual liberty?

tw04 5y ago
I’d argue you not getting vaccinated and adding to the potential of a mutation that makes the vaccine ineffective is a violation of MY individual liberties, and the Supreme Court agrees. Which is why just about every state in the US actually can force you to get vaccinated, they just haven’t.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- cassalian 5y ago
  Could you provide the source for the supreme court agreement? It seems to me that forcing someone to get a vaccine would just as much violate their individual liberties so I'm rather curious what issue the supreme court was specifically addressing
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Not tw04, but... https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/us-supreme-court-addresses-vaccination https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/us-supreme-court-a...
    - cassalian 5y ago
      Thanks for the link!
    - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
      Supreme court acceded to the question of vaccine mandates on the grounds of maintaining public safety and keeping order trumped the 1st amendment. The background was a polio outbreak in MA around 1905, with something like a 30% mortality among all age groups. We are back to 1905, but now its not 30% that is at the issue, but some decimal to the right of zero.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  I personally know several people who have told me that they would stab or shoot anyone who tried to force them get a vaccine. The logistics of that may be a bit tricky, of course. How would the logistics of forced vaccination go down, anyway? Do you think people wouldn't forge their vaccine papers, bribe doctors or otherwise get them to be sympathetic, or otherwise circumvent/ignore the system/rules in order to avoid the vaccine? As stated elsewhere in this thread, it is not going to be possible to stop the virus at this point. We will all eventually be exposed and the best we can do is be as safe as we believe we need to be and can.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    this is exactly what is going down in developing countries as soon as authorities announce a potential paper requirement , the literal next day there are touts selling the paper.
quickthrowman 5y ago
The Supreme Court has ruled that states can mandate vaccinations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts I’m not sure why the misconception that freedom is absolute in the US is so widespread.

by timr 5y ago

tw04 5y ago

I’d argue you not getting vaccinated and adding to the potential of a mutation that makes the vaccine ineffective is a violation of MY individual liberties, and the Supreme Court agrees. Which is why just about every state in the US actually can force you to get vaccinated, they just haven’t.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cassalian 5y ago
Could you provide the source for the supreme court agreement? It seems to me that forcing someone to get a vaccine would just as much violate their individual liberties so I'm rather curious what issue the supreme court was specifically addressing
- mcguire 5y ago
  Not tw04, but... https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/us-supreme-court-addresses-vaccination https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/us-supreme-court-a...
  - cassalian 5y ago
    Thanks for the link!
  - IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
    Supreme court acceded to the question of vaccine mandates on the grounds of maintaining public safety and keeping order trumped the 1st amendment. The background was a polio outbreak in MA around 1905, with something like a 30% mortality among all age groups. We are back to 1905, but now its not 30% that is at the issue, but some decimal to the right of zero.
artificialLimbs 5y ago
I personally know several people who have told me that they would stab or shoot anyone who tried to force them get a vaccine. The logistics of that may be a bit tricky, of course. How would the logistics of forced vaccination go down, anyway? Do you think people wouldn't forge their vaccine papers, bribe doctors or otherwise get them to be sympathetic, or otherwise circumvent/ignore the system/rules in order to avoid the vaccine? As stated elsewhere in this thread, it is not going to be possible to stop the virus at this point. We will all eventually be exposed and the best we can do is be as safe as we believe we need to be and can.
- IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
  this is exactly what is going down in developing countries as soon as authorities announce a potential paper requirement , the literal next day there are touts selling the paper.

quickthrowman 5y ago

The Supreme Court has ruled that states can mandate vaccinations: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts I’m not sure why the misconception that freedom is absolute in the US is so widespread.