7 ms·

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know

by timr 5y ago

> Literally not true. Kids under 12 are not able to be vaccinated, which puts a limit on the activities they and their families can do. If they're able to know that everyone inside a restaurant is vaccinated they'll be more likely to visit. This policy is also hysterical, and not based in science. Kids should not be under any restrictions due to SARS-CoV2. Please see my comment from yesterday as to why I believe this is true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28041775 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28041775 (Aside: I generally feel that the FDA is on the right side of history by being exceptionally careful with approval of the vaccine for children, but arguments like the parent's -- I hear this a lot in different contexts -- do sometimes make me wish that they'd just make an extremely limited approval so that the most fearful 5% of people can force it upon their children and stop holding the rest of the world hostage.)

afavour 5y ago
> the most fearful 5% of people can force it upon their children and stop holding the rest of the world hostage To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. I'm not going to defend that policy for a second as I don't think it's a good idea either, but it's what we're dealing with day in, day out. We're not hysterical fearmongers.
- timr 5y ago
  > To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. Completely agreed. This is a stupid, hysterical policy, and we should all be against it. I include it with my previous comment that children should face no restrictions from SARS-CoV2. What we've done to kids in the last year is so unethical that it makes me furious. I don't mean to imply that you specifically, are hysterical, but this stuff is coming from a group of people who are operating based on fear and lack knowledge. And unfortunately, a great many of them are in positions of power.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    It's not just kids... All the young people have given away a year of their lives to "save grandma"... and now, the government wants them to give up another year, because few grandmas don't want to get vaccinated. Since the vaccines are available to everyone, and enough time has passed, that everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated, then i have no moral issues if a few people die, because they took the risk, and lost the statistics game.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      we're seeing an increase in hospitalizations, which is straining capacity and putting doctors under pressure. if capacity is exceeded due to unvaccinated covid patients, what do you do? bar new covid admissions from the hospital and let them die on the street? keep existing triage order, where someone sick with heart failure or accident trauma might not be admitted because the ward's full of sicker, admitted, covid patients? and before you say "kick the covid patients to the curb," morals aside do you really think that's politically feasible?
      - hunter2_ 5y ago
        What if the triage criteria is to prioritize vaccinated people? Then the segment that suffers from lack of hospital capacity is the same as the segment responsible for unnecessarily burdening the hospital. This comes full circle on the "show your papers" issue, but at least in this scenario showing papers is directly aligning cause and effect regarding death.
      - tayo42 5y ago
        I'm kind of curious how that would be received. If you show up to the hospital for covid and you don't have a vaccine and aren't exempt you don't get treated. I really think there's a good chance it would be received OK. I think vaccinated people are sick of the shit from the other half or 40% and I think the unvaccaniated think they're immune to everything. I think they're happy taking their chances or w/e
  - mcguire 5y ago
- rubyist5eva 5y ago
  Why not lobby your school board to get rid of such a ridiculous policy?
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    These policies more often than not come from the state level, and are set by the governor or unelected bureaucrats in state departments of health. Washington and Oregon are threatening local school boards which try to set their own non-hysterical policies with fines, loss of teaching licenses, and loss of state & federal funding.
    - hcurtiss 5y ago
      This is absolutely correct. These policies are being driven by unelected bureaucrats in Oregon Health Authority working with the Oregon Department of Education. And there are fines for failure to comply. https://www.oregon.gov/ode/students-and-family/healthsafety/Documents/Ready%20Schools%20Safe%20Learners%20Resiliency%20Framework%20for%20the%202021-22%20School%20Year.pdf https://www.oregon.gov/ode/students-and-family/healthsafety/...
      - rubyist5eva 5y ago
        Then organize and lobby the governor to overrule them. Unelected beaurocrats should not have broad power like this. My point is to put pressure on the people in power, not to blindly follow and then just mutter under your breath that you’re mad. They do not give a single crap if people are mad unless their power is threatened. Stand up for yourselves for crying out loud.
        hcurtiss 5y ago
        Many, including my family, are doing what you suggest. Unfortunately, Oregon has a lame duck Governor who does not seem to feel terribly accountable to the electorate. There are more fireworks to come. We’ll see.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
h_anna_h 5y ago
The usual argument for mandatory vaccination is for the protection of others rather than the protection of oneself, so the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing death in children should not matter.
mcguire 5y ago
...and this is why the US does not and will not have universal health care.

by timr 5y ago

afavour 5y ago

> the most fearful 5% of people can force it upon their children and stop holding the rest of the world hostage To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. I'm not going to defend that policy for a second as I don't think it's a good idea either, but it's what we're dealing with day in, day out. We're not hysterical fearmongers.

timr 5y ago
> To be clear, as a parent, it's not because I'm fearful, it's because a positive COVID test from any child in my kid's school means that it shuts down for two weeks, completely messing up our lives, jobs etc. Completely agreed. This is a stupid, hysterical policy, and we should all be against it. I include it with my previous comment that children should face no restrictions from SARS-CoV2. What we've done to kids in the last year is so unethical that it makes me furious. I don't mean to imply that you specifically, are hysterical, but this stuff is coming from a group of people who are operating based on fear and lack knowledge. And unfortunately, a great many of them are in positions of power.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  It's not just kids... All the young people have given away a year of their lives to "save grandma"... and now, the government wants them to give up another year, because few grandmas don't want to get vaccinated. Since the vaccines are available to everyone, and enough time has passed, that everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated, then i have no moral issues if a few people die, because they took the risk, and lost the statistics game.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    we're seeing an increase in hospitalizations, which is straining capacity and putting doctors under pressure. if capacity is exceeded due to unvaccinated covid patients, what do you do? bar new covid admissions from the hospital and let them die on the street? keep existing triage order, where someone sick with heart failure or accident trauma might not be admitted because the ward's full of sicker, admitted, covid patients? and before you say "kick the covid patients to the curb," morals aside do you really think that's politically feasible?
    - hunter2_ 5y ago
      What if the triage criteria is to prioritize vaccinated people? Then the segment that suffers from lack of hospital capacity is the same as the segment responsible for unnecessarily burdening the hospital. This comes full circle on the "show your papers" issue, but at least in this scenario showing papers is directly aligning cause and effect regarding death.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      I'm kind of curious how that would be received. If you show up to the hospital for covid and you don't have a vaccine and aren't exempt you don't get treated. I really think there's a good chance it would be received OK. I think vaccinated people are sick of the shit from the other half or 40% and I think the unvaccaniated think they're immune to everything. I think they're happy taking their chances or w/e
- mcguire 5y ago
rubyist5eva 5y ago
Why not lobby your school board to get rid of such a ridiculous policy?
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  These policies more often than not come from the state level, and are set by the governor or unelected bureaucrats in state departments of health. Washington and Oregon are threatening local school boards which try to set their own non-hysterical policies with fines, loss of teaching licenses, and loss of state & federal funding.
  - hcurtiss 5y ago
    This is absolutely correct. These policies are being driven by unelected bureaucrats in Oregon Health Authority working with the Oregon Department of Education. And there are fines for failure to comply. https://www.oregon.gov/ode/students-and-family/healthsafety/Documents/Ready%20Schools%20Safe%20Learners%20Resiliency%20Framework%20for%20the%202021-22%20School%20Year.pdf https://www.oregon.gov/ode/students-and-family/healthsafety/...
    - rubyist5eva 5y ago
      Then organize and lobby the governor to overrule them. Unelected beaurocrats should not have broad power like this. My point is to put pressure on the people in power, not to blindly follow and then just mutter under your breath that you’re mad. They do not give a single crap if people are mad unless their power is threatened. Stand up for yourselves for crying out loud.
      - hcurtiss 5y ago
        Many, including my family, are doing what you suggest. Unfortunately, Oregon has a lame duck Governor who does not seem to feel terribly accountable to the electorate. There are more fireworks to come. We’ll see.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

h_anna_h 5y ago

The usual argument for mandatory vaccination is for the protection of others rather than the protection of oneself, so the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing death in children should not matter.

mcguire 5y ago

...and this is why the US does not and will not have universal health care.