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Microsoft deletes all comments under heavily criticized Windows 11 upgrade video
- peakaboo 5y agoI'm sorry but come on. The writing has been on the wall for decades now. If you run Windows on your computer, it's not your computer, and you have to comply with whatever Microsoft says or does. I haven't had Windows on my computer since Windows 7. Instead I've been using modern Linux distributions. This is freedom. My computer doesn't slow down, is lightning fast, and just works, year after year.
- YinLuck- 5y agoYes, lets all move into the wilderness and use our own dung as fuel for our campfires...
- bsdnoob 5y agoI suppose you can say same about apple products.
- smitty1e 5y agoA future where Windows is to Linux as Aqua is to Mach seems likely by, say, the end of the decade.
- hyper_dynamics 5y agoI don't think it seems likely at all.
- smitty1e 5y agoThe thirty-year trajectory of MS vs. Linux argues in my favor, I think, but being wrong is nothing new.
- beanjuice 5y agoAt the moment, it would seem apple is at least a bit more responsible with their walled garden. Their users don't get served ads, aren't forced to have Teams now always running, and in general are subject to far less bloatware.
- lrem 5y agoFor those out of the loop: what is the fuss about?
- npteljes 5y agoMicrosoft violating user trust. 1. Win 10 was promised to be the "last Windows", updated like a rolling distro. 2. Minimum system requirements are raised in a way that leaves behind "as many as 60 percent" of hardware that's otherwise fine. 3. Home edition cannot be set up with a local account.
- _trampeltier 5y agoJup same for me. At home I allways had Windows and Linux. But Win7 was the last version. Since the Win10 age, i'm Linux only at home.
- fletchowns 5y agoLinux is great and a lot of progress has been made on the gaming front lately. However, if you want to play all the latest AAA titles at their highest fidelity, there's no choice but to use Windows.
- vaylian 5y agoThere's a decent chance that this will change with the upcoming steam deck: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq Valve is working together with AAA publishers to get better Linux support.
- bserge 5y agoTruly an amazing development. I hope the Steam Deck is popular enough.
- tpxl 5y agoFirst orders start shipping december 2021, current orders start shipping after Q2 2022, so I'd say it's pretty popular.
- creshal 5y agoThe development of Proton has already changed it a lot, the progress is really impressive.
- pjmlp 5y agoYou mean the same AAA publishers that publish games on Stadia and Android?
- creshal 5y agoYes, and? Computers are so much more than gaming devices, it makes no sense to restrict yourself just by that one facet. Or should I use a PlayStation as my main computer just because it has exclusive titles I like?
- 5y ago
- Animats 5y agoMe too. Today I turned on my Windows 7 machine for the first time in months. I checked my old Facebook account. I deleted some unwanted friend requests. I shut the Windows machine down and went back to the Linux machines.
- Abishek_Muthian 5y ago> Today I turned on my Windows 7 machine for the first time in months. I checked my old Facebook account. That's brave of you, I hope you had installed the latest security updates, which for Windows which hasn't been updated in months can take several hours, multiple reboots and has 1/10 chance to update successfully. Update mechanism are another reason for someone to run Linux, Especially a rolling release distribution.
- de6u99er 5y agoI totally agree. Ditched Windows a couple of years ago after using Windows and Linux. I didn't agree with Microsoft constantly changing privacy related settings through updates. Linux for work and development. PS5 for gaming. I am happy that my complete household is Microsoft free.
- icemelt8 5y agoxbox Series S is such a better value
- onion2k 5y agoIf you run Windows on your computer, it's not your computer, and you have to comply with whatever Microsoft says or does. In this case, Windows 10 will continue to run on your computer perfectly fine. Microsoft are not changing anything about Windows 10, or the way people use Windows 10, or removing any Windows 10 'ownership' that people have right now. The complaints are that Windows 11 has additional requirements (a modern CPU with a TMP 2.0 chip), and that older computers don't have that. Essentially people are sad that they can't upgrade because their computers don't meet the minimum spec. TMP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module) is a bit controversial, but you can run Windows without it. Just not Windows 11.
- raxxorrax 5y agoThey enforce secure boot. Many vendors only have the MS CA implemented to check OS integrity. So you would have to get your OS certified by Microsoft...
- josteink 5y agoAlmost all mainstream Linux distros can OOB do UEFI secure boot through a MS-signed shim, or Grub signed by Canonical or Fedora (which is a trusted cert by the MS cert). Secure boot does not prevent a user from installing Linux. That’s just FUD.
- raxxorrax 5y agoI don't think making people aware of the logistic problems of having to sign you OS at Microsoft in most practical cases is FUD. Secure boot or TPM can make sense for the cloud, since you might want to check if the provider changed your OS. MS used ransomware to justify secure boot. That is FUD. Boot and Bios trojans have become extremely rare and it doesn't provide enough protection anyway. This is for vendor lock in and nothing else.
- zo1 5y agoIt may be FUD, but people's concerns are valid. This is clearly another stepping-stone in the direction of removing control of the hardware/computer away from the user (under the guise of Trust, Safety, Privacy and Security). We just don't yet see the bigger, long term end state. But if you ask me, "they" essentially want an un-tamperable and un-recordable pipe between hosted server and the monitor that emits electrons to your eyeballs.
- raxxorrax 5y agoI agree completely. I believe this to be an extremely bad failure at MS for product and company strategy. They basically own the PC OS market but jeapardize their own position massively. I meet devs that target Windows less and less. That said, I might not really cry myself to sleep if people leave Windows behind.
- bserge 5y agoYeah, it would be amazing if Adobe, DS, Autodesk, and others would somehow realize they should decouple their software from the OS and make a Linux version (that could even run on Windows). Though right now the only problem I have is Windows restarting overnight for updates. Closing half the open programs. Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. Then again, it ignores the work time, too.
- smolder 5y agoI think even if it was a good investment to release that kind of high value software on linux and support it there (and it might be,) certain decision-makers may choose not to for ideological reasons. FOSS is often either treated as a resource for exploitation or some kind of anti-capitalist boogie man. I swear I've been put on some peoples' shit lists just for suggesting that we publish something under a FOSS license for visibility and goodwill.
- denton-scratch 5y ago> Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. This really annoys me. I mean, why can't they just pop up a warning that I need to reboot? Or perhaps (not so good) at least take note of which apps are running, and re-launch them after the forced reboot? Windows has been getting suckier with each release since Win2K. None of this suckiness is security, or seriously-cool enhancements. It's all caused by marketing exigencies. Microsoft's awfulness makes me want to cry. [Edit: changed "since WinNT" to "since Win2K" - Win2K wasn't suckier than WinNT - as far as I know, it was just WinNT re-skinned]
- pjmlp 5y ago
- stinos 5y agoMy computer doesn't slow down, is lightning fast, and just works, year after year. Can say that about pretty much any OS, highly depending on what exactly it is you do with it, and if you happen to be lucky enough that you're the one which doesnt't have one single problem. Especially the 'just works' bit rings much less bells for me when it comes to Linux than it does for other OS. Which kinda harms the feeling of freedom I get from it.
- atoav 5y agoAs someone who worked both in IT support and has parents who use compiters despite not knowing how to use them, this is not true. I had a ton of issues with Windows when my mother used it (despite me being a long time Windows user and offering her remote assistence). At one point I got so fed up with yet another update that fucked things up (=changed the UI she was used to) that I decided to install Ubuntu. My mother was happy with the new system and the number of times I had to support her was one thenth of what it was before. OSX is also not without pitfalls, especially the updates can break a lot of existing setups (hardware...) Linux is great for real power users or real beginners, not so great for intermediate people who know enough to fuck a system up for good. But if you are a beginner or a power user it just works unless you fuck it up. With Windows and OSX it just works till they decide to fuck it up, even if you are trying to actively prevent it.
- rand49an 5y agoThat strikes me as highly anecdotal. Another anecdote for you; my Windows 10 Thinkpad which is used for 10 hours every day remains as quick and reliable as the day that I got it and generally goes for months without being restarted.
- atoav 5y ago> That strikes me as highly anecdotal. Well sure, because it is. As mentioned I also worked both in first- and second level support in an enviroment that had Windows, OSX and Linux desktop, with very varying degrees of proficiency between the users of all operating systems. The anectdote from my mother is mirrored in the many experiences I made at the job. Sure that is still no true evidence, but I never claimed it was more than just my opinion. My opinion that I derived from working at precisely the issues involved. Btw. there was one particularily bad Windows user (the type that comes with viruses and toolbars, the type that thinks someone can control their computer if you plug their mouse into another computer). We had nothing but hassle with that person until we moved said person to Linux, where a big pain turned into a much smaller pain. This is again just another annecdotal example, but I could go on.
- lmm 5y ago> Instead I've been using modern Linux distributions. This is freedom. My computer doesn't slow down, is lightning fast, and just works, year after year. That doesn't match my experience of modern Linux at all. Plenty of forced "upgrades" that broke things, sometimes leaving me with an unbootable system (systemd). I switched to FreeBSD and things are much better.
- krageon 5y agoNobody should run a linux distro that has systemd in it, but thankfully you have many many options for that that don't involve running an OS with terrible hardware support (and a small community to boot).
- aceBacker 5y agoI don't think it's as bad as that. You can still create a local account and login to your PC without a callback to Microsoft.
- sundvor 5y agoAnd that way you get the username you want too, instead of the first five letters of your name/email. "Johnathan Smith" => "johna" == yuck.
- Barrin92 5y agoof course you can make the hardline FOSS argument but compared to say, the phone OS market Windows is actually remarkably open, in particular given how dominant it is and especially was. Imagine if Windows had charged every developer who ever built anything on windows 30% of their revenue. They got almost bludgeoned to death for shipping a default browser 20 years ago. Windows deserves a lot of criticism but we take it for granted that a monopolist basically just sold an operating system and let everyone run and build whatever they wanted on top of it, we could've been fucked way worse.
- uranusjr 5y ago“Deleted all comments” is click bait IMO. This is a YouTube video, so the choice is either to allow commenting, or disable the comment section with all existing comments with it. The title reads to me to imply MS is doing some kind of censoring. Yeah that is one of the result of what they’ve done, and that might be the main intention, but heavily implying this in the title without evidence is bad journalism.
- robbedpeter 5y agoThere are two possibilities, and the following isn't a valid choice, so... "Microsoft disables comments because of overwhelmingly positive reception of Windows 11!" They don't want to deal with criticism and likely consider everything a sunk cost, so it is what it is and nothing will change.
- the_biot 5y agoActually, that's not true. I entered a mildly critical comment on a YouTube video the other day, very spot on if I do say so. It immediately got a bunch of upvotes, then that stopped completely. My comment was on top still, but that's just how YouTube displays your own comments. But when checking the video without logging in to YouTube, my comment was gone. So it looks like comments can be quietly deleted without the commenter even knowing it. THAT is censorship.
- drran 5y agoThis is so-called "hell ban", "shadow ban", "ghost commenting" and it is heavily used by Hacker News admins here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning
- toxicFork 5y agoI'm kind of out of the loop, but I expect that if I cannot get Windows 11 then eventually my Windows 10 machines would no longer be supported with updates and so on, right? I guess I will check if I can play my games and do my work using Linux... I feel confident that I should be able to.
- alex_smart 5y agoEventually being October 2025.
- egor2820 5y agoYou can play games using geforce now
- keskadale 5y agothe Proton compatibility makes almost all games work on linux. for work, if you're into programming, it is going to be a much better experience with linux. if you're doing something else, you'll find most windows software works on linux, or you'll find free alternative that work about as good.
- CodeGlitch 5y agoThat is true, however a lot of online games use a type of anticheat software that isn't compatible.
- vbezhenar 5y agoValve Making Linux Anti-Cheat a Reality for Steam Deck Launch: https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/valve-making-linux-anti-cheat-reality-for-steam-deck-launch https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/valve-making-linux-anti-c... Some games probably will support it. I wouldn't run that kind of software on my working machine, but the possibility is there.
- maccard 5y ago> if you're into programming, it is going to be a much better experience with linux This is an opinion, and not a fact. I have had a much better experience with windows tooling for C++ and .net for the last 7-8 years than I have with tooling on Linux. Visual Studio and a modern terminal emulator (Conemu), are an excellent pairing.
- bluecatswim 5y agoHow serious is MS about requiring TPM? I haven't read too much into it but every time I hear people talking about it they say there will be workarounds or MS will eventually budge. The same with requiring online accounts.
- gfody 5y agothis stuff has always been configurable from the policy editor and I can't imagine that ever going away, but I can imagine them removing the policy editor from the free editions - but then someone would just make a free policy editor (if there isn't one already)
- Renaud 5y agoThere is, and it's pretty great: https://github.com/Fleex255/PolicyPlus https://github.com/Fleex255/PolicyPlus
- denton-scratch 5y agoSounds good, but I can't install it. "Microsoft Defender SmartScreen prevented an unrecognised app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk." I've switched off Defender. Still the same.
- Renaud 5y agoLast time I checked it was wrongly reported as malware and blocked at the browser level. At least it's accessible now but there may be some latency in Defender getting updated. The tool is sound. Unless your company explicitly disallow it, you should be able to bypass defender and force it to install, although there are some dark patterns there that may not make it obvious. The author of the tool is aware of the problem, from the github page: _N.B. A few antivirus programs incorrectly flag Policy Plus as malware. Policy Plus is a powerful tool and so may cause problems if used recklessly, but it is not malicious. If you would prefer to not trust binaries, feel free to read the code and compile Policy Plus from source. You can also verify that a build was created from the published code by examining the output of a GitHub Actions run: the input commit hash can be found under "checkout master" and the output executable hash can be found under "compute hash."_
- thunderbong 5y agoI'm old enough to remember criticisms being raised during every Windows release. This happened during Windows XP days (and I think one which still continues!), Windows 7 and Windows 8. I don't expect things to be any different this time around!
- Animats 5y agoThere have been good versions of Windows. NT 3.51. Windows 2000. Windows 7. Everything else was a step backwards from the previous version.
- alrs 5y agoWindows 95 was no great shakes, but it was way better than Windows For Workgroups 3.11, which is where I jumped off for OS/2 and then Slackware.
- sellyme 5y ago> Everything else was a step backwards from the previous version. You're claiming that XP was worse than ME?
- danieldk 5y agoME was not the version that preceded XP, it was Windows 2000. There were two completely different product lines, with a different kernel, etc. Windows 3.x -> Windows 95 -> Windows 98 -> Windows ME Windows NT 3.x -> Windows NT 4.0 -> Windows 2000 -> Windows XP -> Windows Vista -> Windows 7 -> Windows 8 -> Windows 10 Many people believe that XP was the successor of ME because this is where non-business users were migrated to the NT line of Windows.
- fomine3 5y agoVista was huge improvement (or say Win7 basics was made here), but just too heavy in 2006.
- roel_v 5y agoAt the time, people would endlessly complain about every new version or even small change, too. I don't remember the complaining to be worse for the (in hindsight) worse versions. Plus it's only the complaints that you hear about, very few people will rave about how great something is. Personally I thought that Windows 7 was a majors step backwards from XP and avoided it, skipping straight to 8, which I thought was great.
- villgax 5y agoOh my god it was so cringe honestly. Like they took an influencer & ran with an "appealing" script.
- quenix 5y agoRight? The way Panos spoke was just so bizarre and eerie.
- _trampeltier 5y agoMore and more we saw in the latest Microsoft products (also other companys) really bad ui and features. Nobody want have these features exept some marketing people. Nobody use these features .. they are just anyoing as hell, like the actual save file dualog in office, the 3D directory in home etc .. For a time it might work, after a while your product is just a piece of broke shit.
- qalmakka 5y agoMicrosoft really is trying hard to get Windows 11 to fail. They still haven't realized most people don't feel the urge to update unless its 100% painless or it's necessary. If you alienate or disgrunt the "techies", ie those who recommend people what to do with their tech, you are going to get people that remove 11 to install 10, or holdouts on older versions. That's the way it is. IT Departments won't maintain two separate versions of Windows, so expect 10 to remain the default everywhere until 2025.
- hef19898 5y agoIsn't MS doing this with every other Windows version?
- raxxorrax 5y agoThey already disgruntled a lot of devs with their environments. .net core still lives, but anything else seems like a wasteland. There are still a lot of VS Basic and C# devs, but it at least seems their number is decreasing. It is really a problem to get someone that knows the tech if you have to interface it for some mundane Office tasks. Interfacing their Graph API is a horror show that I recommend to any dev about how not to do security.
- c7DJTLrn 5y agoIt's very diffierent in the Apple ecosystem in my opinion. People are usually nonchalant, even excited about upgrading. I think that's how Microsoft want people in the Windows ecosystem to feel, but it's just not refined enough for that to happen.
- alkonaut 5y agoThe outrage that they release a new major version that requires new hardware is…weird. This is exactly like someone who bought a PS4 realizing that some new games require a PS5 (change my mind) If Microsoft had made this in the 2022 update of Win10, that would have been outrageous. And if they stopped patching Win10 that would have been bad too. But it’s neither of those. It’s entirely new software for new hardware.
- AndrewDucker 5y agoThey will stop patching it in 2025. And a lot of old hardware that still runs the software just fine will then be insecure.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago> The outrage that they release a new major version that requires new hardware is…weird. My impression is that the outrage is because the requirement is... weird. As in artificial. It will support new, lower-end CPUs, but not older, more powerful CPUs. I seem to remember the cutoff was 8th gen Intels. A friend has an XPS with a 7th gen i7H. That thing is much more powerful than the dinky i5u I have in my work laptop, but since mine is 8th gen it will be able to run Win 11, but not his. My desktop has an overclocked 3rd gen i7 that runs circles around both of the laptops combined. Can't run win11 either. I get there's the TPM thing, although it's not clear to me why it's so important or whether it's not at all possible (as opposed to just uncommon) to have a TPM v2 on an older than 8th gen CPU.
- jmkni 5y agoI'm wondering if this will allow them to get rid of loads of legacy code in the Windows codebase over time? If not, then I really don't get it.
- vladvasiliu 5y agoI wouldn't hold my breath. I'm not a Windows user, but my understanding is that the legacy code allows people to run old software, so I wouldn't expect this to go away just because the required minimum CPU is fairly new. If anything, it should stay in place, as an argument to push adoption of Windows 11: "yeah, you need brand-new computers, but don't worry, all your old software will still work as before".
- baybal2 5y agoWith TPM requirement, MS succesfully shot itself in the foot. With TPMs sold out around the world for the next 12-18 months, and Windows 10 still being offered to OEMs, Microsoft has assured that legal installs of Win11 will be almost unheard of. They have just assured the revival of the long since tamed WaREz culture. P.S. Some lucky chip hoarders made a fortune, just look at this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174871167203 https://www.ebay.com/itm/174871167203 TPM chips cost literal cents up until recently, now $100
- ch_123 5y agoMost x86 CPUs from the last 3-4 years include firmware-level TPM support and do not require the modules you are talking about, so there will be uptake amongst people with computers made in that timeframe. (I am not defending Microsoft's decision, just pointing out that your claim is incorrect)
- baybal2 5y agoDepending on SKUs, Intel PTT may be is fused off. Some new laptops with dated bioses still don't have the firmware code to enable it. So yes, if Microsoft spurs the OEMs, they can make the transition going a bit faster.
- protoman3000 5y agoSteamOS will come and solve all these gamer’s problems. Valve picked the right moment to enter the OS market.
- zxcvbn4038 5y agoI’ve been very surprised by Macs. If you told me forty years ago that I’d be using a MacBook one day I wouldn’t have believed you - they were always the fringe systems that couldn’t integrate with anything except the alien spaceships in Independence Day and the users were always marketing darlings that could not find anything that wasn’t visible on the screen in front of them. However fast forward to today and Macs integrate very well into the environment, the development tools are free, you can throw iterm2 on and have a very nice Unix environment, add in Docker and you have a pleasant Linux environment at your disposal as well. Microsoft stuff works well enough - Teams on Linux is a real pig that consumes all memory and CPU, and drops audio randomly - but that is completely on Microsoft. Apple has its own issues but if your not developing MacOS kernel extensions you can steer clear of most of it. Pay your $100 for Apple Care or your a third class citizen. I’ve seen Apple replace iPhones that had obviously been clawed open with a fork with a smile if you had Apple Care but they won’t do jack if you don’t have it.
- jsnell 5y ago> If you told me forty years ago that I’d be using a MacBook one day I wouldn’t have believed you - they were always the fringe systems that couldn’t integrate 40 years ago, the Mac had not been released yet. Hell, neither had the IBM PC, MS-DOS 1.0, or even the Commodore 64.
- DrBazza 5y agoI said this on a previous win11 post here, and I'll say it again. I don't want telemetry on my machine, I don't want to jump through loops to turn it off, I don't want Teams on my machine (are we back in ie6 territory again?), I don't want a 'must be connected to the internet' operating system. After 20 or so years of using Windows at home, I think I'm probably done with Microsoft. Linux and KDE satisfies all requirements now, and in fact my machine is dual boot and I haven't booted into Windows in weeks. The only thing I'll miss is Visual Studio, but I have a Jetbrains license, so that's fine.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoIt makes me wonder: why does Microsoft take this risk now? Switching to Linux was so much more painful 20 years ago. Switching to Mac is probably easier than ever. So why, instead of encouraging their users to stay, they do everything to alienate them? Of course, the majority will stay because of inertia, especially in the enterprise. But it paints a bleak future for Windows. With Windows 10 Home forced upgrades I saw again something that I haven't seen since Windows 95: a growing feeling among users that their OS, which just supposed to work, is overtly hostile to them. You can hold it just a bit and then it will reboot against your will and you just hope all your work, settings and so on was saved. Your OS is getting in your way, it prevents your work being done, just like Windows 95 did with constant crashing. Once these things have piled up, users seriously start looking for an alternative. My parents, for example, switched to iPad Pros and haven't regretted it. This might not be possible now for all users yet, but we're getting there, and Microsoft seems to be as blind to this aspect as in the 90s.
- pjmlp 5y agoBecause outside on the real world, together they make about 11% of desktop market share (10% macOS + 1% GNU/Linux). Apparently everyone is going to switch since Windows XP.
- DrBazza 5y ago> Apparently everyone is going to switch since Windows XP. Haha. Yes, next year of the Linux desktop. Like 'free beer tomorrow' outside your favourite bar. In my other comment, I believe that developers are gradually moving to other platforms. I don't expect Windows to go away, because it's a massive platform and therefore you can make money writing code for it, but I do see it becoming less and less relevant.
- ypcx 5y agoNot sure why I'm always hoping that they'd depart from the dependency on the past Windows architectures and produced a modern operating system. It's not that they don't know how, their labs had some very interesting concepts over the years.
- zekica 5y agoYes, and it appears that they are trying to do this by moving to "Windows Drivers" and other technologies before they are ready to containerize/sandbox everything.
- kungito 5y agoPeople hate change and reality is that Windows is at the core of every casual's experience. Devs will bitch and complain amd threaten to switch to Linux but reality is that your already switched or won't. I've been developing using Windows for over 10 years and wouldn't switch for the world. In my latest gig I ssh into linux dev machine through VSCode and this is the best setup possible