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The union probably wants this public so they can say Amazon cheated but the union might not want a 2nd vote to actually happen so they don't lose. Claim "Moral

by bruceb 5y ago

The union probably wants this public so they can say Amazon cheated but the union might not want a 2nd vote to actually happen so they don't lose. Claim "Moral victory" and move on for a while.

kadoban 5y ago
There's little moral victory to be had. A small story about Amazon cheating doesn't really generate much buzz. Voting again, if nothing else, makes the story more public, there will be a lot of talk about why the vote is happening again and what happened the first time.
- modriano 5y ago
  But a second landslide defeat with no improprieties would probably kill any chance of unionization ever happening in any Amazon warehouse. The median household income in Bessemer, AL, is $32,301 per household per year (~$15.50 per household per hour) [0] and the per capita annual income is $19,420 (~$9.34/hour) [0]. Considering Amazon's minimum wage is FAR above the wages at least 50% of residents in Bessemer, AL, earn, I think it will be another blowout, as most of those workers would be afraid that Amazon would just shut down that distribution center and open another one in another Birmingham, AL suburb or exurb. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bessemercityalabamal https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bessemercityalabamal
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Still confused why they picked such an anti-union state like Alabama for an attempt at unionization. I was told by a friend who worked at the UPS distribution center in Montgomery that during the big strike in the 90s, that distribution center had the largest number of workers cross the picket line. It's not that the state government is anti-union, it's that the people in general are anti-union.
- dnsco 5y ago
  The largest coal mine union strike in 40 years is happening very close to the Alabama Amazon facility, and started just after the Amazon vote. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/28/union-advocates-rally-striking-alabama-coalminers https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/20...
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Still confused why they picked such an anti-union state like Alabama for an attempt at unionization. My understanding is the particular area had a long history of unionization, maybe particularly by African Americans. I read about it elsewhere, but here's the first source I could find that speaks to that: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/03/16/the-amazon-union-battle-in-bessemer-is-about-dignity-racial-justice-and-the-future-of-the-american-worker/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/03/16/the-ama... > In the South, anti-labor laws are inextricably linked to the historic suppression of Black workers. Racism in the form of no- or low-wage Black labor has been part of the growth model of racialized capitalism. And when workers are unable to collectively bargain and demand their fair share, economic growth becomes concentrated in the hands of a few. > Fortunately, the Birmingham metropolitan area—home to Bessemer—has already proven that unionized Black workers can create economic growth and shared prosperity. At the turn of the 20th century, Birmingham labor unions facilitated the establishment of a Black middle class. Black and white miners organized to form the United Mine Workers (UMW) union and, together, secured better wages. Following UMW’s success, what was then known as the Alabama Federation of Labor (AFL) followed the same strategy of a racially integrated membership—in part out of fear that nonunionized Black workers would replace striking workers. As a result, Black Alabamians earned leadership positions and spots in every committee of the AFL, and the union’s first five vice presidents were Black. This inclusive labor movement continued until the 1930s, when U.S. Steel—rife with Ku Klux Klan members—began to restrict job promotions for unionized Black workers, limiting access to senior positions they previously occupied.
sam0x17 5y ago
What amazon did though is super sketchy. They created their own ballot boxes and "processed" them behind closed doors, when the votes were supposed to be collected by a neutral third party. Why would they do this for any reason other than to tamper with the votes?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- justinclift 5y ago
  Potentially to find out which employees would have voted to unionise, in order to expunge or at least neutralise them.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    Occam's razor. If they are already opening the ballot box, why not simplify things and just tamper with the votes? Then they don't even need to care about which employees because the vote fails.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      As this ruling shows, the drive for unionization does not end after one failed vote.
      - sam0x17 5y ago
        Nor does Amazon's drive to stop it (without legislation that is)
- unanswered 5y ago
  > They created their own ballot boxes and "processed" them behind closed doors Do you have any evidence of this? Seems libellous to me and it directly contradicts all of the reliable media reports I've heard on the subject, which state that ballots were deposited in the mail including an official USPS box on-site.
ojnabieoot 5y ago
If I were the union I would take the opportunity to campaign on this. Say that Amazon’s leadership is so untrustworthy that they tried to rig an election they probably would have won fair and square - and, more importantly, that the federal government under Biden might actually have your back if AMZ tries to retaliate against you.

by bruceb 5y ago

The union probably wants this public so they can say Amazon cheated but the union might not want a 2nd vote to actually happen so they don't lose. Claim "Moral victory" and move on for a while.

kadoban 5y ago

There's little moral victory to be had. A small story about Amazon cheating doesn't really generate much buzz. Voting again, if nothing else, makes the story more public, there will be a lot of talk about why the vote is happening again and what happened the first time.

modriano 5y ago
But a second landslide defeat with no improprieties would probably kill any chance of unionization ever happening in any Amazon warehouse. The median household income in Bessemer, AL, is $32,301 per household per year (~$15.50 per household per hour) [0] and the per capita annual income is $19,420 (~$9.34/hour) [0]. Considering Amazon's minimum wage is FAR above the wages at least 50% of residents in Bessemer, AL, earn, I think it will be another blowout, as most of those workers would be afraid that Amazon would just shut down that distribution center and open another one in another Birmingham, AL suburb or exurb. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bessemercityalabamal https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/bessemercityalabamal

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Still confused why they picked such an anti-union state like Alabama for an attempt at unionization. I was told by a friend who worked at the UPS distribution center in Montgomery that during the big strike in the 90s, that distribution center had the largest number of workers cross the picket line. It's not that the state government is anti-union, it's that the people in general are anti-union.

dnsco 5y ago
The largest coal mine union strike in 40 years is happening very close to the Alabama Amazon facility, and started just after the Amazon vote. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/28/union-advocates-rally-striking-alabama-coalminers https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/20...
tablespoon 5y ago
> Still confused why they picked such an anti-union state like Alabama for an attempt at unionization. My understanding is the particular area had a long history of unionization, maybe particularly by African Americans. I read about it elsewhere, but here's the first source I could find that speaks to that: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/03/16/the-amazon-union-battle-in-bessemer-is-about-dignity-racial-justice-and-the-future-of-the-american-worker/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/03/16/the-ama... > In the South, anti-labor laws are inextricably linked to the historic suppression of Black workers. Racism in the form of no- or low-wage Black labor has been part of the growth model of racialized capitalism. And when workers are unable to collectively bargain and demand their fair share, economic growth becomes concentrated in the hands of a few. > Fortunately, the Birmingham metropolitan area—home to Bessemer—has already proven that unionized Black workers can create economic growth and shared prosperity. At the turn of the 20th century, Birmingham labor unions facilitated the establishment of a Black middle class. Black and white miners organized to form the United Mine Workers (UMW) union and, together, secured better wages. Following UMW’s success, what was then known as the Alabama Federation of Labor (AFL) followed the same strategy of a racially integrated membership—in part out of fear that nonunionized Black workers would replace striking workers. As a result, Black Alabamians earned leadership positions and spots in every committee of the AFL, and the union’s first five vice presidents were Black. This inclusive labor movement continued until the 1930s, when U.S. Steel—rife with Ku Klux Klan members—began to restrict job promotions for unionized Black workers, limiting access to senior positions they previously occupied.

sam0x17 5y ago

What amazon did though is super sketchy. They created their own ballot boxes and "processed" them behind closed doors, when the votes were supposed to be collected by a neutral third party. Why would they do this for any reason other than to tamper with the votes?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
justinclift 5y ago
Potentially to find out which employees would have voted to unionise, in order to expunge or at least neutralise them.
- sam0x17 5y ago
  Occam's razor. If they are already opening the ballot box, why not simplify things and just tamper with the votes? Then they don't even need to care about which employees because the vote fails.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    As this ruling shows, the drive for unionization does not end after one failed vote.
    - sam0x17 5y ago
      Nor does Amazon's drive to stop it (without legislation that is)
unanswered 5y ago
> They created their own ballot boxes and "processed" them behind closed doors Do you have any evidence of this? Seems libellous to me and it directly contradicts all of the reliable media reports I've heard on the subject, which state that ballots were deposited in the mail including an official USPS box on-site.

ojnabieoot 5y ago

If I were the union I would take the opportunity to campaign on this. Say that Amazon’s leadership is so untrustworthy that they tried to rig an election they probably would have won fair and square - and, more importantly, that the federal government under Biden might actually have your back if AMZ tries to retaliate against you.