5 ms·

If it finalizes they are offering to send me $15 ? That is not enough for the damage to my reputation and that of my business. I recommended them to others fo

If it finalizes they are offering to send me $15 ? That is not enough for the damage to my reputation and that of my business. I recommended them to others for privacy important things and showed the advertised 'e2e' that was advertised approved by us gov. I also used it with several other security professionals to work in tandem on hacked servers. Passwords were not obfuscated do to our belief in the e2e. Shouldn't we get an opt-out of the class action email?

sharken 5y ago
Class action lawsuits rarely benefit the users financially. On the other hand the lawyers get a nice $21m payout. You can read the original complaint here: https://www.classlawgroup.com/zoom-class-action-lawsuit/ https://www.classlawgroup.com/zoom-class-action-lawsuit/
- rhizome 5y ago
  >Class action lawsuits rarely benefit the users financially. ...because courts approve unreasonably low settlements.
purplecats 5y ago
it's pretty obvious that corporate crime pays exceedingly well. makes mathematical sense for corporations to do bad things for profit since we aren't a society that is capable of holding corporations financially accountable for their negative actions
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Probably why there is so much vaccine hesitancy. (I've had my jab, it's ok).
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    I don't believe this is the only reason, but certainly part of it. Trust has to be earned.
  - sneak 5y ago
    I don't think this is true. Lots of people these days are operating primarily on fear; when you are in that sort of pattern-matching mode, any new or unknown situation will by default be evaluated as a potential threat. Perhaps we should stop creating so many "heads I win, tails you lose" situations for huge swaths of the population. That might have something to do with an overall culture of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in general. (insert silly Donnie Darko fear/love chalkboard gif here.)
    - purplecats 5y ago
      https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Culture_of_fear https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Culture_of_fear
  - krageon 5y ago
    I hate it, but that's definitely plausible. From that angle really anyone should be very hesitant - which is beyond depressing considering how much good vaccines do.
throwawaysea 5y ago
> Shouldn't we get an opt-out of the class action email? I am not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice, but you typically get directions on opting out as part of the class action notice you receive: https://www.classaction.org/learn/class-action-opt-out https://www.classaction.org/learn/class-action-opt-out
dragonwriter 5y ago
Yes, if you are identified as being in the class, you will also get an opt-out opportunity.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
It's possible that if a representative class member files an objection it could create problems for the class action lawyers trying to get their settlement approved. They may not get their money as expected. Needless to say, given the amount of time and money some invest in these cases, they really want to get these settlements approved without objection so they can get paid. Many people are probably familiar with receiving notifications about being eligible to receive some token payment as settlement for some lawsuit they never knew existed, if they follow steps X, Y and Z. But how many people know they can follow steps A, B and C and file an objection instead. It's like changing defaults, opting out of advertising, using an ad blocker, running a PiHole, etc. If you do nothing, you get ads and a crappy experience. That's the default. To get a better experience you have to take action. The default here is you ignore the notice and get nothing or you respond and get maybe a token payment, the lawyers get large payments and the company gets off the hook, limits their liability and avoids any admission of wrongdoing. If you want a better experience, you have to take action and file an objection. https://www.classaction.org/blog/class-action-faqs-how-to-object-to-a-class-action-settlement https://www.classaction.org/blog/class-action-faqs-how-to-ob...
suifbwish 5y ago
I think this highlights a problem in trusting 3rd party services just because they claim to have high quality of service. As a security prof, I am surprised you didn’t just try to intercept the zoom conversations and see if they actually are encrypted before trusting them. I know being busy can prevent things like that from happening but the problem is people were using this and similar services to work on other peoples data who never had used zoom. This means that it’s very likely that our participation is not even required for our private information to be stolen.
- stevenicr 5y ago
  you are right. I recall reading an HN comment a while back where someone did check the data on the wire with one of those 'no-name cheap wifi home cameras' that claimed encryption for privacy and they did see scrambled stuff - so good. But I also recall a recent comment (I think from a saas founder?) - where they don't claim E2E with thier service as it's using webrtc(?) that needs to decrypt at the relay (stun/turn?) server - then re-encrypt to deliver. (Which is how I will be preferring ro deliver with webrtc so to avoid direct p2p and ipaddy leaking (trading a user to user privacy for trust in the server relay - good for my situation, not what I'd suggest for most other) anyhow - that kind of thing would get tricky, is the soft wiregaurd? that is used to peek at the traffic - would (could) show encrypted stuff leaving my box - and give me a false sense of security if zoom was decrypting in the middle - I guess I'd need to find if the data was going p2p somehow. (still learning to be security professional) we need some way to codify parts of your comment into law, and into people's understanding of the need to have encryption for data others get to play with. - There is a tinge of this in the hippa.

sharken 5y ago

Class action lawsuits rarely benefit the users financially. On the other hand the lawyers get a nice $21m payout. You can read the original complaint here: https://www.classlawgroup.com/zoom-class-action-lawsuit/ https://www.classlawgroup.com/zoom-class-action-lawsuit/

rhizome 5y ago
>Class action lawsuits rarely benefit the users financially. ...because courts approve unreasonably low settlements.

purplecats 5y ago

it's pretty obvious that corporate crime pays exceedingly well. makes mathematical sense for corporations to do bad things for profit since we aren't a society that is capable of holding corporations financially accountable for their negative actions

bamboozled 5y ago
Probably why there is so much vaccine hesitancy. (I've had my jab, it's ok).
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I don't believe this is the only reason, but certainly part of it. Trust has to be earned.
- sneak 5y ago
  I don't think this is true. Lots of people these days are operating primarily on fear; when you are in that sort of pattern-matching mode, any new or unknown situation will by default be evaluated as a potential threat. Perhaps we should stop creating so many "heads I win, tails you lose" situations for huge swaths of the population. That might have something to do with an overall culture of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in general. (insert silly Donnie Darko fear/love chalkboard gif here.)
  - purplecats 5y ago
    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Culture_of_fear https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Culture_of_fear
- krageon 5y ago
  I hate it, but that's definitely plausible. From that angle really anyone should be very hesitant - which is beyond depressing considering how much good vaccines do.

throwawaysea 5y ago

> Shouldn't we get an opt-out of the class action email? I am not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice, but you typically get directions on opting out as part of the class action notice you receive: https://www.classaction.org/learn/class-action-opt-out https://www.classaction.org/learn/class-action-opt-out

dragonwriter 5y ago

Yes, if you are identified as being in the class, you will also get an opt-out opportunity.

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

It's possible that if a representative class member files an objection it could create problems for the class action lawyers trying to get their settlement approved. They may not get their money as expected. Needless to say, given the amount of time and money some invest in these cases, they really want to get these settlements approved without objection so they can get paid. Many people are probably familiar with receiving notifications about being eligible to receive some token payment as settlement for some lawsuit they never knew existed, if they follow steps X, Y and Z. But how many people know they can follow steps A, B and C and file an objection instead. It's like changing defaults, opting out of advertising, using an ad blocker, running a PiHole, etc. If you do nothing, you get ads and a crappy experience. That's the default. To get a better experience you have to take action. The default here is you ignore the notice and get nothing or you respond and get maybe a token payment, the lawyers get large payments and the company gets off the hook, limits their liability and avoids any admission of wrongdoing. If you want a better experience, you have to take action and file an objection. https://www.classaction.org/blog/class-action-faqs-how-to-object-to-a-class-action-settlement https://www.classaction.org/blog/class-action-faqs-how-to-ob...

suifbwish 5y ago

I think this highlights a problem in trusting 3rd party services just because they claim to have high quality of service. As a security prof, I am surprised you didn’t just try to intercept the zoom conversations and see if they actually are encrypted before trusting them. I know being busy can prevent things like that from happening but the problem is people were using this and similar services to work on other peoples data who never had used zoom. This means that it’s very likely that our participation is not even required for our private information to be stolen.

stevenicr 5y ago
you are right. I recall reading an HN comment a while back where someone did check the data on the wire with one of those 'no-name cheap wifi home cameras' that claimed encryption for privacy and they did see scrambled stuff - so good. But I also recall a recent comment (I think from a saas founder?) - where they don't claim E2E with thier service as it's using webrtc(?) that needs to decrypt at the relay (stun/turn?) server - then re-encrypt to deliver. (Which is how I will be preferring ro deliver with webrtc so to avoid direct p2p and ipaddy leaking (trading a user to user privacy for trust in the server relay - good for my situation, not what I'd suggest for most other) anyhow - that kind of thing would get tricky, is the soft wiregaurd? that is used to peek at the traffic - would (could) show encrypted stuff leaving my box - and give me a false sense of security if zoom was decrypting in the middle - I guess I'd need to find if the data was going p2p somehow. (still learning to be security professional) we need some way to codify parts of your comment into law, and into people's understanding of the need to have encryption for data others get to play with. - There is a tinge of this in the hippa.