4 ms·

Covid clusters among the vaccinated are killing our back-to-normal dreams

9 points by lnyan 5y ago

spookthesunset 5y ago
Yeah right. This is just media fear mongering at its best. We as individuals get to decide when this is over. Not some anointed “expert class” of myopic technocrats.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  Never in the history of pandemics has there been a moment where "individuals" get to decide when a pandemic is finished. Historically pandemics were finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns and quarantines controlled through force, or just letting the vulnerable die until disease mutate into something else or a couple of rounds of human breeding select for traits that improve survival. "Individuals", as seen by the hot takes on newspapers, forums, and Twitter, have made remarkably bad observations about the pandemic, as if they just didn't spend their entire lives devoted to fields such as immunology, virology or epidemiology. Hell I've spent the entire pandemic reading up on pretty much every new paper that comes out and I'm still astoundingly ignorant on the matters and I can at most give a handwavy opinion on whether "n" for a study is reasonable to extrapolate the authors' conclusions. So I'll take my chances with the experts, the ones who made good, precise observations by applying what they learned on their field instead of believing that their own personal takes are the best on God's green earth.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Find me a single historical pandemic that was finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns or quarantines. You might find epidemics where they were handled in a country this way, but I've never heard of a pandemic in the history of the world resolved this way. The only pandemics I've ever heard of being resolved were through reservoir burnout, border closures or a disease becoming endemic as it appears this disease has.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      wouldn't smallpox qualify? that was a pandemic until it became epidemics because of vaccination and quarantine, then was eradicated.
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        Mandatory vaccination and quarantine?
        rualca 5y ago
        Smallpox vaccination is mandatory at least in a few European countries I lived in. In fact, national vaccination programs mandate vaccines for about a dozen diseases starting right from birth. These national vaccination programs are also pretty clear in stating that the goal of these vaccines is to either make people immune or mitigate the impact of an infection.
        Daishiman 5y ago
        Yes. The vast majority of public school systems mandate vaccination.
  - forcry 5y ago
    >Historically pandemics were finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns and quarantines controlled through force Please provide a list of such pandemics.
betwixthewires 5y ago
I have been "back to normal" for 7 months unvaccinated around tons of people maskless also unvaccinated and haven't had so much as a cough. For some of use luckily back to normal is not a dream. These people will keep this going until you say enough and stop caring. The illness exists, it is in the air, you're probably going to get it multiple times in the rest of your life, if some drug works then use it, otherwise this is the world now and all this horse shit needs to stop.
- rualca 5y ago
  Sadly and regrettably, those who insist in intentionally ignoring basic health and sanitary precautions, such as wearing masks and washing hands and social distancing, are the reason why not only the pandemic still rages on but also the death toll is so high in some countries. You are endangering everyone around you with your irresponsible behavior, and just because you are ok with your personal notion of what are the odds of being negatively impacted by a disease that does not mean those who are forced to interact with you are. I firmly believe that this pandemic would already be a thing of the past if everyone acted responsibly and did the bare minimum to not contribute to its spread. But no.
  - a0-prw 5y ago
    Sadly, people who continue to promote hysteria are the reason why this "crisis" will never end.
    - rualca 5y ago
      Do you honestly classify the death toll of millions, where a good portion of these deaths were unequivocally preventable with trivial health and safety precautions, as "hysteria"? Or is this one of those things that you feel everyone is hysteric just because so far the problem didn't affected you personally?
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    I complied for a year. I wore a mask, I social distanced, I only went outside when necessary, I still wash my hands. You can scapegoat me all you like if it makes you feel like your compliance accomplished something, you can pretend that the predictable failure of these ridiculous measures is my fault, but most of us that live out here in the world are tired of being micromanaged and brow beaten and guilt tripped and told to comply ad infinitum with measures that so far have failed to produce any tangible benefit at all. We have to live in the world as it is and that's exactly what I plan on doing, and we are going to ignore all of you irrational people scolding us.

9 points by lnyan 5y ago

Yeah right. This is just media fear mongering at its best. We as individuals get to decide when this is over. Not some anointed “expert class” of myopic technocrats.

Daishiman 5y ago
Never in the history of pandemics has there been a moment where "individuals" get to decide when a pandemic is finished. Historically pandemics were finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns and quarantines controlled through force, or just letting the vulnerable die until disease mutate into something else or a couple of rounds of human breeding select for traits that improve survival. "Individuals", as seen by the hot takes on newspapers, forums, and Twitter, have made remarkably bad observations about the pandemic, as if they just didn't spend their entire lives devoted to fields such as immunology, virology or epidemiology. Hell I've spent the entire pandemic reading up on pretty much every new paper that comes out and I'm still astoundingly ignorant on the matters and I can at most give a handwavy opinion on whether "n" for a study is reasonable to extrapolate the authors' conclusions. So I'll take my chances with the experts, the ones who made good, precise observations by applying what they learned on their field instead of believing that their own personal takes are the best on God's green earth.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Find me a single historical pandemic that was finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns or quarantines. You might find epidemics where they were handled in a country this way, but I've never heard of a pandemic in the history of the world resolved this way. The only pandemics I've ever heard of being resolved were through reservoir burnout, border closures or a disease becoming endemic as it appears this disease has.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    wouldn't smallpox qualify? that was a pandemic until it became epidemics because of vaccination and quarantine, then was eradicated.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      Mandatory vaccination and quarantine?
      - rualca 5y ago
        Smallpox vaccination is mandatory at least in a few European countries I lived in. In fact, national vaccination programs mandate vaccines for about a dozen diseases starting right from birth. These national vaccination programs are also pretty clear in stating that the goal of these vaccines is to either make people immune or mitigate the impact of an infection.
      - Daishiman 5y ago
        Yes. The vast majority of public school systems mandate vaccination.
- forcry 5y ago
  >Historically pandemics were finished through compulsory vaccination, lockdowns and quarantines controlled through force Please provide a list of such pandemics.

betwixthewires 5y ago

I have been "back to normal" for 7 months unvaccinated around tons of people maskless also unvaccinated and haven't had so much as a cough. For some of use luckily back to normal is not a dream. These people will keep this going until you say enough and stop caring. The illness exists, it is in the air, you're probably going to get it multiple times in the rest of your life, if some drug works then use it, otherwise this is the world now and all this horse shit needs to stop.

rualca 5y ago
Sadly and regrettably, those who insist in intentionally ignoring basic health and sanitary precautions, such as wearing masks and washing hands and social distancing, are the reason why not only the pandemic still rages on but also the death toll is so high in some countries. You are endangering everyone around you with your irresponsible behavior, and just because you are ok with your personal notion of what are the odds of being negatively impacted by a disease that does not mean those who are forced to interact with you are. I firmly believe that this pandemic would already be a thing of the past if everyone acted responsibly and did the bare minimum to not contribute to its spread. But no.
- a0-prw 5y ago
  Sadly, people who continue to promote hysteria are the reason why this "crisis" will never end.
  - rualca 5y ago
    Do you honestly classify the death toll of millions, where a good portion of these deaths were unequivocally preventable with trivial health and safety precautions, as "hysteria"? Or is this one of those things that you feel everyone is hysteric just because so far the problem didn't affected you personally?
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  I complied for a year. I wore a mask, I social distanced, I only went outside when necessary, I still wash my hands. You can scapegoat me all you like if it makes you feel like your compliance accomplished something, you can pretend that the predictable failure of these ridiculous measures is my fault, but most of us that live out here in the world are tired of being micromanaged and brow beaten and guilt tripped and told to comply ad infinitum with measures that so far have failed to produce any tangible benefit at all. We have to live in the world as it is and that's exactly what I plan on doing, and we are going to ignore all of you irrational people scolding us.