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Covid in Sydney: Military deployed to help enforce lockdown

52 points by jimmy2020 5y ago

roschdal 5y ago
The end is nigh.
cm2187 5y ago
Why is Australia doing so bad in term of vaccination? It sounds backward to have all these restrictions and at the same time not bothering to vaccinate people. Do they hope covid will disappear from earth?
- xuki 5y ago
  The federal gov didn’t order enough Pfizer/Moderna. They have plenty of AstraZenica but nobody wants it because the risk of blood clot has been blown out of proportion.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- glenngillen 5y ago
  I’d suggest one part has been political and messaging: poor organisation from politicians in securing a sufficient number of vaccines and poor communication from them about the risks of something like the AstraZeneca version which means most people want to avoid it now. I think the larger but less spoken about issue is general apathy and a lack of urgency from the population. Our case numbers and deaths are incredibly low by most global standards. Melbourne has been in and out of lockdowns, but most of the rest of the country have been _mostly_ going on with business as usual. The biggest impact for people has been the uncertainty around interstate travel.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nimvlaj30 5y ago
  From my perspective as a progressive, the Federal government are corrupt, lazy, and have an extreme inability to get things done. Scott Morrison, the prime minster, had the opportunity to purchase more vaccines, and was advised to "purchase as many as you can" by public health advisors. Instead, he did what he and the rest of the Liberal Party of Australia (conservative) have always done... Not purchase enough, then shift the blame to the individual states and let them fight over what few vaccines were actually purchased. There has been months of advertisements rolling, advising under 50s to head to their GP and get an Astrazeneca shot. I am in my late 20s, and have gone to my GP multiple times only to be told I'm not part of the roll out. The ads from the government tell me I can get a vaccine, but my GP says there are no vaccines. Our government only know how to spin and market. The Liberal party have literally been marketing a solution (get vaccinated) that they don't have, because they never had enough vaccines in the first place.
- trissylegs 5y ago
  It's hard to tell exactly what went wrong. But it seems like the Government literally just didn't buy enough. There's not much Pfizer so only health workers and the elderly have been getting it. Then when we actually got AZ. It's rollout has been extremely slow. Then the Blood-clot risk came about AZ was restricted to 40+ only. Now anyone can ask for it, but you have to go get a note from a GP. It's very confusing. tl;dr Effectively most people (in NSW at least) haven't been able to get a Vaccine until very recently, and there's weeks of waiting to get a booking. If you want a case study of a bad vaccine rollout. Australia is a good bet.
jimmy2020 5y ago
Nine deaths in June led to military deployment. How many deaths from depression, overdose or another mental health problem happened in June and will happen due to lockdown hysteria. And why not put more resources into vaccination rather than enforce lockdown by military.
- __alias 5y ago
  That's not the point. We've gone months without any community covid cases and suddenly there's a break out. The point in military involvement is to to make sure the lockdown we run is actually effective and doesn't drag on for months while we finally push vaccination rates up
  - jimmy2020 5y ago
    > The point in military involvement is There's no point of military involvement whatsoever. This is just to expand the government power over the civil society and they doing it through the military. If you are worried as government about covid cases, well start with the vaccine. Buy more or do more to distribute the shots. But enforce lockdown and then send the military? This is so disturbing.
    - _kbh_ 5y ago
      The point of the military involvement is that the normal police don't have enough resources to properly handle what they need to do. The military won't be arresting anyone in Australia, they don't have the power too. The government has done a poor job of handing both the outbreaks and vaccination, but I don't think this has anything to do with expanding government powers, I believe they are up shit creek without a paddle and need all the help they can get.
- _arctic 5y ago
  The country literally cannot get vaccines fast enough to roll out to the population. Astra Zenica, which Australia has millions of extra doses of, has only been recommended for use in over 60s due to blood clotting risks. We do not have enough alternative vaccines (Pfizer) to put into the arms of those under 60. While I can understand that in comparison to the rest of the world, Australia has faired comparably well, we are poised on a knife edge between harsh and costly restrictions that save lives and just "letting it rip", and seeing the same brutal results that occurred in the US, India and the UK (among other places). Without more of the population vaccinated, we don't have any other options.
haunter 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state
- deadalus 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism
oars 5y ago
170 cases in one day and the army is deployed to enforce lockdowns. In my country we had over 10,000 cases yesterday and I will be going out for after work drinks at the end of this week to socialise. Does Australia just overspend on its military budget or am I misunderstanding why Australia is going to these extremes?
- jimmy2020 5y ago
  Yes, they withdrew from Afghanistan there's money to be spent domestically or internationally.
  - oars 5y ago
    Thank you, this makes more sense now. It seems that it is normal for Australian soldiers to be deployed in Australia as they are not in Afghanistan. This article has just taken advantage of it for the headline and news content.
    - skhr0680 5y ago
      There's a difference between being deployed sitting around at your base doing Really Important Stuff and > Australian Defence Force soldiers will undergo training on the weekend before beginning unarmed patrols on Monday.
    - mimentum 5y ago
      The deployment isn't a standard practice. Just something that has been enforced as of late.
    - switch007 5y ago
      Normal for Australian soldiers to police the streets to keep people locked in their homes? When has this happened before 2020?
      - waste_monk 5y ago
        Not specifically to enforce a lockdown (and to clarify they are assisting police, it's not the ADF doing this by itself), but it's routine for the ADF to assist with disasters. Surely you remember the ADF helping out with the bushfires not too long ago? There were the big news items like civilians trapped by bushfires being evacuated by the RAN off of Mallacoota beach, but the ADF also provided an incredible amount of assistance with logistics, engineering, and so on... it is deeply unfair to assume the worst of them just because it's enforcing a lockdown.
dmix 5y ago
For comparison to their 170 cases in a day: > Tokyo saw 3,865 new cases Thursday
- skhr0680 5y ago
  I don't think ordering the JSDF to deploy to the streets of Japan would end well... ...for the person giving the orders
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Hmm, that would actually be one of the few legal uses of the JSDF I suppose?
- Aeolun 5y ago
  That’s if you count only the 23 wards, with around 16M inhabitants. If you add the outlying areas to get the total to like 25M inhabitants (same as Australia) the total number of cases is more like 6000/day.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  For extra comparison, Greater Tokyo Area has a population of more than 37 million, 50% higher than the population of Australia which is 25 million. The population of Greater Tokyo Area is approximately the same as the entire Canada.
the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
How do Australians feel about the lockdowns?
- greazy 5y ago
  We hate them but recognise their importance. I live in Melbourne and have been in 6 or so lockdowns. NSW is really fucking this up.
  - mimentum 5y ago
    Agree with your statement - NSW is the biggest threat to the rest of the other States. We also need to drive vaccination rates up. Too much hesitation around either vax option (Pfizer/AZ).
- sen 5y ago
  Most people I know (including myself) find them a hassle but completely necessary and appropriate. NSW has terrible leadership that has blundered the entire thing. The “lockdown” in Sydney is an absolute joke compared to what other states have been doing, and the proof is in the numbers. I’d much rather have strict enforced shorter lockdowns that actually stops the spread (like VIC/etc), than this bollocks half-arsed political-stunt stuff that ends up not containing anything and dragging on forever. Not to mention the costs involved that could’ve gone towards immunisations. People WANT to get immunised. The immunisation hubs have queues of people wanting it but the Government just isn’t willing to pay for it.
- robbiep 5y ago
  Everyone I know in sydney is quite frustrated but also fairly compliant, it’s a reasonably relaxed lockdown compared to others or Melbourne’s (unless you’re in one of the 8 local government areas at the epicentre). Personally, and as a doctor with many colleagues who are treating patients in this outbreak, we’ve had like 2800 positive cases (with a test positivity rate of ~0.01%, so we can be fairly confident we are reporting most of the cases) but have 150 patients in hospital and 58 in ICU at present including quite a scary number under 50. So, it’s warranted in my view, and for me personally, I’m 5 minutes walk to the beach and a swim every day in the middle of winter (there are no limits on hours of exercise) is quite a good life, but I’d like to be more free than I am now. However my livelihood hasn’t been affected, and it’s not overly affecting my mental health, and I sympathise with those who are at risk of losing their business or who are doing it hard psychologically (or trapped in abusive relationships). I should also point out that there is a fair bit of government support, but it’s been a bit slow coming and is being unevenly applied (ie Melbourne’s last lockdown basically got told to go suck it, liberal governments playing favourites). Generally, there is a lot of anger at the government’s bungling of the vaccine rollout which probably would have meant this whole thing didn’t have to happen
ecdavis 5y ago
Glad to see this. There's been very little enforcement since the pandemic began. We need it now.
botwriter 5y ago
Australia recently just tightened its gun laws... now you have state tyranny over a few cases... Maybe the NRA were right.
ThomPete 5y ago
Australia has lost the plot a long time ago. This is not the way to solve a pandemic. It is however a way to make your society much more fragile.
- greazy 5y ago
  These lock downs are a proven tool to stop transmissionof covid. A multifaceted issue like the pandemic requires multiple approaches and this is how we have controlled the virus. And we have controlled it well.
  - SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
    Are they a proven tool? The article says that "despite five weeks of lockdown, infections in the nation's largest city continue to spread".
    - boatmansloth 5y ago
      NSW basically did a fake lockdown and took their sweet time in even getting to that point. Other states like Victoria and South Australia have locked down quick, hard, and within two weeks effectively eliminated community transmission.
    - senectus1 5y ago
      WA says "yes" when you do it properly, and lock down hard and fast. this half arsed and poorly communicated bullshit is whats screwing NSW right now. not to mention the poor compliance.
  - ThomPete 5y ago
    They are a proven tool if you want to isolate yourself from the rest of the world yes and live on an island so you can. They are not a proven tool for actually dealing with the endemic nature of this virus. Australia will realize sooner or later that they can't actually avoid getting most of their population exposed to covid.
Ice_cream_suit 5y ago
Meanwhile the earliest appointment to get the Pfizer vaccine in the area I work in (Western Sydney ) is November, because of our Prime Minister's incompetence. ( Pfizer Vaccine: Risk of myocarditis 55 - 450 / 1000,000 ) The AstraZeneca vaccine is available tomorrow, but the Prime Minister's flip flopping messaging means that laypeople are terrified that they will get blood clots and so refuse to have the vaccine. The PM's vacuous and incompetent messaging has even managed to get some physician collegues of mine terrified of this insignificant risk. ( AstraZeneca Vaccine: Risk of thrombotic thrombocytopenic syndrome with cerebral venous thrombosis 33 / 1000,000 ) We have an election coming up soon and our politicians are desperate to impress the median voter. That is why we have ridiculous stunts like this. Even worse, some of our politicians are still distributing COVID denial and vaccine denial pamphlets, in order to attract votes from the lower end of the bell curve. See: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/30/clive-palmer-disregards-tga-call-to-stop-spreading-misleading-vaccine-material https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/30/clive... Clive Palmer disregards TGA call to stop spreading misleading vaccine material "Clive Palmer is defying a call from the Therapeutic Goods Administration to stop spreading “misleading information” as his new pamphlet containing disputed claims about the impact of vaccinations is being distributed across the country, including to residents in greater Sydney. It quotes figures published by the TGA on post-vaccination deaths and adverse reactions out of context, criticises the body for not ceasing the vaccine rollout, claims there is no pandemic in Australia, and accuses the TGA and the government of spreading misleading information. "
- jeofken 5y ago
  > …some of our politicians are still distributing COVID denial and vaccine denial pamphlets, in order to attract votes from the lower end of the bell curve. I assume you’re referencing to IQ and The Bell Curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve). Can you show any correlation between intelligence and being sceptical to the COVID-19 vaccines?
  - jackvalentine 5y ago
    Don’t do that. Don’t equate anti-vax and enlightened skepticism. They’re not the same thing.
yyy888sss 5y ago
The government completely messed up the messaging for the Astra Zeneca vaccine, a lot of people think it is very risky due to the reports of blood clotting (which are actually lower than for most common medicines!!). It doesn't matter though because even the AZ vaccine is hard to get, you need to be over 40 or have medical reasons and even then you need an appointment. EDIT: And you can't even leave the country without government permission so its not like you can fly a country with vaccine availability to get it.
- trissylegs 5y ago
  In NSW you don't need a Medical reason to get AZ but you still need a GP note. I think... I can't find consistent information sources. But the advice is "Just get AZ if you dont have existing blood clotting issues". But how to actually get it is left as a exercise for the reader.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    As of Wednesday you don’t need a gp consult prior to AZ. Also, should be pointed out that it is not thrombophilias in general but immune thrombophilias that are of concern for AZ (ie factor V lieden and others are fine per ATAGI advice which is in line with the pathophysiology as I understand it)
- ecdavis 5y ago
  ATAGI is an independent government body and they're pretty clear in their advice that the benefits of AZ only outweigh the risks for people over 60. Morrison has been literally pleading with them to change their advice but so far they're holding firm. https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-recommendations-on-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-17-june-2021 https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-re... The government has messed up vaccine availability.
- PinkMilkshake 5y ago
  Many of my friends and I are in our 30s and got the AZ. Might have to doctor shop a bit, some still seem to be operating on older recommendations. Also, I went to move my second dose to 4 weeks as recommended by the ATAGI(Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation), but the doctors said the recommendation they got was 6 weeks minimum.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
The Australian government bet on a single brand of vaccine: AstraZeneca. We also had some Pfizer stock but not enough for the entire country. This would have been fine until reports of clotting disorders started coming in. The official advice was revised so over 50s and then over 60s should get AZ. Technically you could still get the AZ if you wanted to, but due to the advice, no one did. Meanwhile, only 40s and over and at risk demographics below 60 could get Pfizer. And by now they did such a good job trashing AZ, no one wanted it. Then Delta hit and no one wants AZ. So here we are. Reports are Pfizer offered our government a deal last year, and they could have locked in enough doses for the entire population. But they declined.
honie 5y ago
I'm not sure whether military intervention is right or not, but for everyone making comparisons based on absolute numbers, please note that the population in Sydney is tiny. If you take the lower population density into account, all of a sudden ~200 cases no longer appears to be a trivial number. I see people constantly breaking lockdown restrictions outside of my window here. It's pretty damn frustrating for those who are obeying the restrictions.
- Ice_cream_suit 5y ago
  "please note that the population in Sydney is tiny" The population of Sydney is 5367206 according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Smaller than most major cities, but not all that tiny....
  - honie 5y ago
    I guess "big" and "tiny" are subjective. My point still hasn't changed: that people who are saying that "we have X many cases in our city, your ~200 cases is nothing compared to ours" are perhaps over-trivialising the problems we are facing.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  It is very close to that of Denmark. We had 3 times that yesterday. Not a problem if you have vacines.
  - honie 5y ago
    Maybe I'm missing your point: but wouldn't one be more concerned if there are more people vaccinated and the number of cases is higher? Also, I was under the impression that the long-term effects of COVID isn't well understood yet, and that people who are vaccinated can still be carriers. If I'm not mistaken on both accounts, then everyone should be just as cautious until basically the majority of the population is vaccinated -- otherwise those who are vaccinated are basically just walking around infecting those who aren't since everyone has the guard down? Edit: potentially abrasive choice of word.
greazy 5y ago
For those wondering why Australia deploys the army in such events: it's because soldiers are public servants and have been deployed in the past for different reasons including natural disasters. They won't carry weapons, because they're jobs aren't just killing people unlike other armed forces of other nations.
- cm2187 5y ago
  There is a distinction between using the army for disaster relief and to enforce. Even in the case of extreme riots, this is an option most democratic countries are reluctant to entertain.
softgrow 5y ago
From the ABC https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/adf-soldiers-to-arrive-in-sydney-covid19-lockdown/100336124 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/adf-soldiers-to-arriv... , ADF is assisting police who are checking on those who are infected are actually staying home. Instead of 2 police knocking on your door, there is 1 police and 1 ADF. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/what-happens-if-youre-diagnosed-with-covid-19-in-australia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/what-happens-i... has some detail on what each state does. In Queensland if you get Covid you are taken to a hospital. (not in article:In other states the case numbers are much lower so people are sent to medical hotels to ride out the disease and make also sure they don't infect anyone else) In NSW there are 2500 cases so they don't have that luxury and rely on infected people actually staying home. Hence the need for random checks to make sure the sick people aren't out roaming.
- switch007 5y ago
  Medical hotels? They’re prisons, not hotels. Truly sick people go to hospitals, for treatment. Out of choice. If they need more hospitals then build them. Raid wealth of the the mining lords. I cannot stomach the acceptance of hauling allegedly infectious people away to imprison them (and subject healthy people to the virus). It’s sickening to read.
davidbanham 5y ago
There’s a fair bit of context absent from this article. The military aren’t being deployed to enforce a lockdown so much as they’re providing some extra manpower to augment the local police force. NSW Police have part of their workforce isolating due to exposure to infected people, coupled with extra patrol requirements, and they need some more bodies. The military personnel will be unarmed and will be accompanied by police. The army doesn’t actually have any powers in this scenario, so it’s up to the police to actually issue fines, make arrests, move people on, etc.
- switch007 5y ago
  So for all intents and purposes they are indeed enforcing the lockdown
bananapub 5y ago
The replies to all these Covid articles about non-US (and non-european) countries are just surreally out of touch. Some corrections for the common incorrect or silly comments: > lockdown for only a few hundred cases??? Australia essentially eliminated covid, and never had a widespread pandemic, so there's both a desire and ability to eliminate it again and no immunity at all in the community. > the army??? Australia is a poorly governed country and the Army gets called out to assist with government logistical failures (fire, flood) fairly often and it's sometimes just done so it looks like the government is Taking It Seriously. also, there's insufficient financial support from governments who are asking people to lock down, and insufficient seriousness from the government about it in general via inconsistent rules and application of them. there also appears to be a concerted foreign disinformation campaign (as well as the usual domestic disinformers) that culminated in a massive protest about...lockdown during lockdown. > why don't they focus on vaccinations???? the Australian federal government deeply fucked vaccines up. they bet too hard on a domestically developed one that got cancelled, then didn't secure sufficient supplies from overseas (ie did not order enough Pfizer and Moderna for the population in May last year), then let old people *choose* what vaccine they got, then sowed fear about AZ, then fucked up logistics - until *this week* you needed approval from your GP (via an appointment) to get AZ if you were under 40, and it's only very very recently become possible to easily access it. the government keeps cancelling it's own vaccine forecasts due to the absolute shambles they'ver created, but it's unlikely there will be 80%+ fully vaccinated before the end of the year. tl;dr there aren't enough vaccines or capacity to inject them in the next few months > but what about deaths from suicide etc from lockdown??? there's no evidence this happened in Australia, presumably due to social and cultural and welfare reasons. not everywhere is the USA, folks! > why aren't people rising up against this huge injustice!?!?! it's not an injustice, it's concerted community effort to achieve a goal for society. not everyone is happy about it but almost no one considered it to be some huge crime against human rights, and it's...week five of a not particulary strict lockdown. again, not everywhere is North Dakota or whatever.

52 points by jimmy2020 5y ago

The end is nigh.

Why is Australia doing so bad in term of vaccination? It sounds backward to have all these restrictions and at the same time not bothering to vaccinate people. Do they hope covid will disappear from earth?

xuki 5y ago
The federal gov didn’t order enough Pfizer/Moderna. They have plenty of AstraZenica but nobody wants it because the risk of blood clot has been blown out of proportion.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
glenngillen 5y ago
I’d suggest one part has been political and messaging: poor organisation from politicians in securing a sufficient number of vaccines and poor communication from them about the risks of something like the AstraZeneca version which means most people want to avoid it now. I think the larger but less spoken about issue is general apathy and a lack of urgency from the population. Our case numbers and deaths are incredibly low by most global standards. Melbourne has been in and out of lockdowns, but most of the rest of the country have been _mostly_ going on with business as usual. The biggest impact for people has been the uncertainty around interstate travel.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nimvlaj30 5y ago
From my perspective as a progressive, the Federal government are corrupt, lazy, and have an extreme inability to get things done. Scott Morrison, the prime minster, had the opportunity to purchase more vaccines, and was advised to "purchase as many as you can" by public health advisors. Instead, he did what he and the rest of the Liberal Party of Australia (conservative) have always done... Not purchase enough, then shift the blame to the individual states and let them fight over what few vaccines were actually purchased. There has been months of advertisements rolling, advising under 50s to head to their GP and get an Astrazeneca shot. I am in my late 20s, and have gone to my GP multiple times only to be told I'm not part of the roll out. The ads from the government tell me I can get a vaccine, but my GP says there are no vaccines. Our government only know how to spin and market. The Liberal party have literally been marketing a solution (get vaccinated) that they don't have, because they never had enough vaccines in the first place.
trissylegs 5y ago
It's hard to tell exactly what went wrong. But it seems like the Government literally just didn't buy enough. There's not much Pfizer so only health workers and the elderly have been getting it. Then when we actually got AZ. It's rollout has been extremely slow. Then the Blood-clot risk came about AZ was restricted to 40+ only. Now anyone can ask for it, but you have to go get a note from a GP. It's very confusing. tl;dr Effectively most people (in NSW at least) haven't been able to get a Vaccine until very recently, and there's weeks of waiting to get a booking. If you want a case study of a bad vaccine rollout. Australia is a good bet.

jimmy2020 5y ago

Nine deaths in June led to military deployment. How many deaths from depression, overdose or another mental health problem happened in June and will happen due to lockdown hysteria. And why not put more resources into vaccination rather than enforce lockdown by military.

__alias 5y ago
That's not the point. We've gone months without any community covid cases and suddenly there's a break out. The point in military involvement is to to make sure the lockdown we run is actually effective and doesn't drag on for months while we finally push vaccination rates up
- jimmy2020 5y ago
  > The point in military involvement is There's no point of military involvement whatsoever. This is just to expand the government power over the civil society and they doing it through the military. If you are worried as government about covid cases, well start with the vaccine. Buy more or do more to distribute the shots. But enforce lockdown and then send the military? This is so disturbing.
  - _kbh_ 5y ago
    The point of the military involvement is that the normal police don't have enough resources to properly handle what they need to do. The military won't be arresting anyone in Australia, they don't have the power too. The government has done a poor job of handing both the outbreaks and vaccination, but I don't think this has anything to do with expanding government powers, I believe they are up shit creek without a paddle and need all the help they can get.
_arctic 5y ago
The country literally cannot get vaccines fast enough to roll out to the population. Astra Zenica, which Australia has millions of extra doses of, has only been recommended for use in over 60s due to blood clotting risks. We do not have enough alternative vaccines (Pfizer) to put into the arms of those under 60. While I can understand that in comparison to the rest of the world, Australia has faired comparably well, we are poised on a knife edge between harsh and costly restrictions that save lives and just "letting it rip", and seeing the same brutal results that occurred in the US, India and the UK (among other places). Without more of the population vaccinated, we don't have any other options.

haunter 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state

deadalus 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

oars 5y ago

170 cases in one day and the army is deployed to enforce lockdowns. In my country we had over 10,000 cases yesterday and I will be going out for after work drinks at the end of this week to socialise. Does Australia just overspend on its military budget or am I misunderstanding why Australia is going to these extremes?

jimmy2020 5y ago
Yes, they withdrew from Afghanistan there's money to be spent domestically or internationally.
- oars 5y ago
  Thank you, this makes more sense now. It seems that it is normal for Australian soldiers to be deployed in Australia as they are not in Afghanistan. This article has just taken advantage of it for the headline and news content.
  - skhr0680 5y ago
    There's a difference between being deployed sitting around at your base doing Really Important Stuff and > Australian Defence Force soldiers will undergo training on the weekend before beginning unarmed patrols on Monday.
  - mimentum 5y ago
    The deployment isn't a standard practice. Just something that has been enforced as of late.
  - switch007 5y ago
    Normal for Australian soldiers to police the streets to keep people locked in their homes? When has this happened before 2020?
    - waste_monk 5y ago
      Not specifically to enforce a lockdown (and to clarify they are assisting police, it's not the ADF doing this by itself), but it's routine for the ADF to assist with disasters. Surely you remember the ADF helping out with the bushfires not too long ago? There were the big news items like civilians trapped by bushfires being evacuated by the RAN off of Mallacoota beach, but the ADF also provided an incredible amount of assistance with logistics, engineering, and so on... it is deeply unfair to assume the worst of them just because it's enforcing a lockdown.

dmix 5y ago

For comparison to their 170 cases in a day: > Tokyo saw 3,865 new cases Thursday

skhr0680 5y ago
I don't think ordering the JSDF to deploy to the streets of Japan would end well... ...for the person giving the orders
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Hmm, that would actually be one of the few legal uses of the JSDF I suppose?
Aeolun 5y ago
That’s if you count only the 23 wards, with around 16M inhabitants. If you add the outlying areas to get the total to like 25M inhabitants (same as Australia) the total number of cases is more like 6000/day.
smnrchrds 5y ago
For extra comparison, Greater Tokyo Area has a population of more than 37 million, 50% higher than the population of Australia which is 25 million. The population of Greater Tokyo Area is approximately the same as the entire Canada.

the_mitsuhiko 5y ago

How do Australians feel about the lockdowns?

greazy 5y ago
We hate them but recognise their importance. I live in Melbourne and have been in 6 or so lockdowns. NSW is really fucking this up.
- mimentum 5y ago
  Agree with your statement - NSW is the biggest threat to the rest of the other States. We also need to drive vaccination rates up. Too much hesitation around either vax option (Pfizer/AZ).
sen 5y ago
Most people I know (including myself) find them a hassle but completely necessary and appropriate. NSW has terrible leadership that has blundered the entire thing. The “lockdown” in Sydney is an absolute joke compared to what other states have been doing, and the proof is in the numbers. I’d much rather have strict enforced shorter lockdowns that actually stops the spread (like VIC/etc), than this bollocks half-arsed political-stunt stuff that ends up not containing anything and dragging on forever. Not to mention the costs involved that could’ve gone towards immunisations. People WANT to get immunised. The immunisation hubs have queues of people wanting it but the Government just isn’t willing to pay for it.
robbiep 5y ago
Everyone I know in sydney is quite frustrated but also fairly compliant, it’s a reasonably relaxed lockdown compared to others or Melbourne’s (unless you’re in one of the 8 local government areas at the epicentre). Personally, and as a doctor with many colleagues who are treating patients in this outbreak, we’ve had like 2800 positive cases (with a test positivity rate of ~0.01%, so we can be fairly confident we are reporting most of the cases) but have 150 patients in hospital and 58 in ICU at present including quite a scary number under 50. So, it’s warranted in my view, and for me personally, I’m 5 minutes walk to the beach and a swim every day in the middle of winter (there are no limits on hours of exercise) is quite a good life, but I’d like to be more free than I am now. However my livelihood hasn’t been affected, and it’s not overly affecting my mental health, and I sympathise with those who are at risk of losing their business or who are doing it hard psychologically (or trapped in abusive relationships). I should also point out that there is a fair bit of government support, but it’s been a bit slow coming and is being unevenly applied (ie Melbourne’s last lockdown basically got told to go suck it, liberal governments playing favourites). Generally, there is a lot of anger at the government’s bungling of the vaccine rollout which probably would have meant this whole thing didn’t have to happen

ecdavis 5y ago

Glad to see this. There's been very little enforcement since the pandemic began. We need it now.

botwriter 5y ago

Australia recently just tightened its gun laws... now you have state tyranny over a few cases... Maybe the NRA were right.

ThomPete 5y ago

Australia has lost the plot a long time ago. This is not the way to solve a pandemic. It is however a way to make your society much more fragile.

greazy 5y ago
These lock downs are a proven tool to stop transmissionof covid. A multifaceted issue like the pandemic requires multiple approaches and this is how we have controlled the virus. And we have controlled it well.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  Are they a proven tool? The article says that "despite five weeks of lockdown, infections in the nation's largest city continue to spread".
  - boatmansloth 5y ago
    NSW basically did a fake lockdown and took their sweet time in even getting to that point. Other states like Victoria and South Australia have locked down quick, hard, and within two weeks effectively eliminated community transmission.
  - senectus1 5y ago
    WA says "yes" when you do it properly, and lock down hard and fast. this half arsed and poorly communicated bullshit is whats screwing NSW right now. not to mention the poor compliance.
- ThomPete 5y ago
  They are a proven tool if you want to isolate yourself from the rest of the world yes and live on an island so you can. They are not a proven tool for actually dealing with the endemic nature of this virus. Australia will realize sooner or later that they can't actually avoid getting most of their population exposed to covid.

Ice_cream_suit 5y ago

Meanwhile the earliest appointment to get the Pfizer vaccine in the area I work in (Western Sydney ) is November, because of our Prime Minister's incompetence. ( Pfizer Vaccine: Risk of myocarditis 55 - 450 / 1000,000 ) The AstraZeneca vaccine is available tomorrow, but the Prime Minister's flip flopping messaging means that laypeople are terrified that they will get blood clots and so refuse to have the vaccine. The PM's vacuous and incompetent messaging has even managed to get some physician collegues of mine terrified of this insignificant risk. ( AstraZeneca Vaccine: Risk of thrombotic thrombocytopenic syndrome with cerebral venous thrombosis 33 / 1000,000 ) We have an election coming up soon and our politicians are desperate to impress the median voter. That is why we have ridiculous stunts like this. Even worse, some of our politicians are still distributing COVID denial and vaccine denial pamphlets, in order to attract votes from the lower end of the bell curve. See: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/30/clive-palmer-disregards-tga-call-to-stop-spreading-misleading-vaccine-material https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/30/clive... Clive Palmer disregards TGA call to stop spreading misleading vaccine material "Clive Palmer is defying a call from the Therapeutic Goods Administration to stop spreading “misleading information” as his new pamphlet containing disputed claims about the impact of vaccinations is being distributed across the country, including to residents in greater Sydney. It quotes figures published by the TGA on post-vaccination deaths and adverse reactions out of context, criticises the body for not ceasing the vaccine rollout, claims there is no pandemic in Australia, and accuses the TGA and the government of spreading misleading information. "

jeofken 5y ago
> …some of our politicians are still distributing COVID denial and vaccine denial pamphlets, in order to attract votes from the lower end of the bell curve. I assume you’re referencing to IQ and The Bell Curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve). Can you show any correlation between intelligence and being sceptical to the COVID-19 vaccines?
- jackvalentine 5y ago
  Don’t do that. Don’t equate anti-vax and enlightened skepticism. They’re not the same thing.

yyy888sss 5y ago

The government completely messed up the messaging for the Astra Zeneca vaccine, a lot of people think it is very risky due to the reports of blood clotting (which are actually lower than for most common medicines!!). It doesn't matter though because even the AZ vaccine is hard to get, you need to be over 40 or have medical reasons and even then you need an appointment. EDIT: And you can't even leave the country without government permission so its not like you can fly a country with vaccine availability to get it.

trissylegs 5y ago
In NSW you don't need a Medical reason to get AZ but you still need a GP note. I think... I can't find consistent information sources. But the advice is "Just get AZ if you dont have existing blood clotting issues". But how to actually get it is left as a exercise for the reader.
- robbiep 5y ago
  As of Wednesday you don’t need a gp consult prior to AZ. Also, should be pointed out that it is not thrombophilias in general but immune thrombophilias that are of concern for AZ (ie factor V lieden and others are fine per ATAGI advice which is in line with the pathophysiology as I understand it)
ecdavis 5y ago
ATAGI is an independent government body and they're pretty clear in their advice that the benefits of AZ only outweigh the risks for people over 60. Morrison has been literally pleading with them to change their advice but so far they're holding firm. https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-recommendations-on-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-17-june-2021 https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-re... The government has messed up vaccine availability.
PinkMilkshake 5y ago
Many of my friends and I are in our 30s and got the AZ. Might have to doctor shop a bit, some still seem to be operating on older recommendations. Also, I went to move my second dose to 4 weeks as recommended by the ATAGI(Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation), but the doctors said the recommendation they got was 6 weeks minimum.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

The Australian government bet on a single brand of vaccine: AstraZeneca. We also had some Pfizer stock but not enough for the entire country. This would have been fine until reports of clotting disorders started coming in. The official advice was revised so over 50s and then over 60s should get AZ. Technically you could still get the AZ if you wanted to, but due to the advice, no one did. Meanwhile, only 40s and over and at risk demographics below 60 could get Pfizer. And by now they did such a good job trashing AZ, no one wanted it. Then Delta hit and no one wants AZ. So here we are. Reports are Pfizer offered our government a deal last year, and they could have locked in enough doses for the entire population. But they declined.

honie 5y ago

I'm not sure whether military intervention is right or not, but for everyone making comparisons based on absolute numbers, please note that the population in Sydney is tiny. If you take the lower population density into account, all of a sudden ~200 cases no longer appears to be a trivial number. I see people constantly breaking lockdown restrictions outside of my window here. It's pretty damn frustrating for those who are obeying the restrictions.

Ice_cream_suit 5y ago
"please note that the population in Sydney is tiny" The population of Sydney is 5367206 according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Smaller than most major cities, but not all that tiny....
- honie 5y ago
  I guess "big" and "tiny" are subjective. My point still hasn't changed: that people who are saying that "we have X many cases in our city, your ~200 cases is nothing compared to ours" are perhaps over-trivialising the problems we are facing.
tomjen3 5y ago
It is very close to that of Denmark. We had 3 times that yesterday. Not a problem if you have vacines.
- honie 5y ago
  Maybe I'm missing your point: but wouldn't one be more concerned if there are more people vaccinated and the number of cases is higher? Also, I was under the impression that the long-term effects of COVID isn't well understood yet, and that people who are vaccinated can still be carriers. If I'm not mistaken on both accounts, then everyone should be just as cautious until basically the majority of the population is vaccinated -- otherwise those who are vaccinated are basically just walking around infecting those who aren't since everyone has the guard down? Edit: potentially abrasive choice of word.

greazy 5y ago

For those wondering why Australia deploys the army in such events: it's because soldiers are public servants and have been deployed in the past for different reasons including natural disasters. They won't carry weapons, because they're jobs aren't just killing people unlike other armed forces of other nations.

cm2187 5y ago
There is a distinction between using the army for disaster relief and to enforce. Even in the case of extreme riots, this is an option most democratic countries are reluctant to entertain.

softgrow 5y ago

From the ABC https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/adf-soldiers-to-arrive-in-sydney-covid19-lockdown/100336124 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-30/adf-soldiers-to-arriv... , ADF is assisting police who are checking on those who are infected are actually staying home. Instead of 2 police knocking on your door, there is 1 police and 1 ADF. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/what-happens-if-youre-diagnosed-with-covid-19-in-australia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/07/what-happens-i... has some detail on what each state does. In Queensland if you get Covid you are taken to a hospital. (not in article:In other states the case numbers are much lower so people are sent to medical hotels to ride out the disease and make also sure they don't infect anyone else) In NSW there are 2500 cases so they don't have that luxury and rely on infected people actually staying home. Hence the need for random checks to make sure the sick people aren't out roaming.

switch007 5y ago
Medical hotels? They’re prisons, not hotels. Truly sick people go to hospitals, for treatment. Out of choice. If they need more hospitals then build them. Raid wealth of the the mining lords. I cannot stomach the acceptance of hauling allegedly infectious people away to imprison them (and subject healthy people to the virus). It’s sickening to read.

davidbanham 5y ago

There’s a fair bit of context absent from this article. The military aren’t being deployed to enforce a lockdown so much as they’re providing some extra manpower to augment the local police force. NSW Police have part of their workforce isolating due to exposure to infected people, coupled with extra patrol requirements, and they need some more bodies. The military personnel will be unarmed and will be accompanied by police. The army doesn’t actually have any powers in this scenario, so it’s up to the police to actually issue fines, make arrests, move people on, etc.

switch007 5y ago
So for all intents and purposes they are indeed enforcing the lockdown

bananapub 5y ago

The replies to all these Covid articles about non-US (and non-european) countries are just surreally out of touch. Some corrections for the common incorrect or silly comments: > lockdown for only a few hundred cases??? Australia essentially eliminated covid, and never had a widespread pandemic, so there's both a desire and ability to eliminate it again and no immunity at all in the community. > the army??? Australia is a poorly governed country and the Army gets called out to assist with government logistical failures (fire, flood) fairly often and it's sometimes just done so it looks like the government is Taking It Seriously. also, there's insufficient financial support from governments who are asking people to lock down, and insufficient seriousness from the government about it in general via inconsistent rules and application of them. there also appears to be a concerted foreign disinformation campaign (as well as the usual domestic disinformers) that culminated in a massive protest about...lockdown during lockdown. > why don't they focus on vaccinations???? the Australian federal government deeply fucked vaccines up. they bet too hard on a domestically developed one that got cancelled, then didn't secure sufficient supplies from overseas (ie did not order enough Pfizer and Moderna for the population in May last year), then let old people *choose* what vaccine they got, then sowed fear about AZ, then fucked up logistics - until *this week* you needed approval from your GP (via an appointment) to get AZ if you were under 40, and it's only very very recently become possible to easily access it. the government keeps cancelling it's own vaccine forecasts due to the absolute shambles they'ver created, but it's unlikely there will be 80%+ fully vaccinated before the end of the year. tl;dr there aren't enough vaccines or capacity to inject them in the next few months > but what about deaths from suicide etc from lockdown??? there's no evidence this happened in Australia, presumably due to social and cultural and welfare reasons. not everywhere is the USA, folks! > why aren't people rising up against this huge injustice!?!?! it's not an injustice, it's concerted community effort to achieve a goal for society. not everyone is happy about it but almost no one considered it to be some huge crime against human rights, and it's...week five of a not particulary strict lockdown. again, not everywhere is North Dakota or whatever.