9 ms·

To be perfectly clear, they are mandating employees be vaccinated if they want to physically go in to an office, not to do (or keep) their jobs.

bananabiscuit 5y ago
But Google is also planning on requiring people to go back to the office starting September. You can apply for a transfer to a remote position, but that requires that there be a remote position available for you to take and then finding it and matching into it. So yeah, sounds like unless you are already remote, they are requiring you take the vaccine in order to keep your job.
- Justin_Time 5y ago
  As mentioned in the article, this date is being pushed back to (at least) mid-October.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    At which point you will be dismissed if you have not found and secured a remote position within the company. That part of the policy has not changed. Until they announce it has we should assume they are intending to follow though.
    - shaklee3 5y ago
      It's a choice though. You could just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired.
      - atatatat 5y ago
        That is the dichotomy that is being criticized, yes.
      - joshuahughes 5y ago
        "just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired" The word 'just' must be one of the most heavily used words of the last 18 months. The problem is that 'just' is the start of a slippery slope. Governments and organisations rarely withdraw authoritarian diktats, once we've allowed them in.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        The vaccine has an overwhelming amount of data showing it's effective, and very little showing side effects. At some point it's a national responsibility to get it. If you don't, then there's nothing that says you should have a job at faang.
        chitowneats 5y ago
        So effective that we're going back to mask mandates, talking feverishly about boosters, etc. And this is for already vaccinated individuals. Can't blame the boogeyman "anti-vaxxers" for increases in cases and hospitalizations in countries where Pfizer is readily admitting that the "immunity" granted by their product is "waning": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v... Are we ready to have an adult conversation about mRNA gene therapy and how it differs from traditional vaccines? We're up to 3 shots a year already. Typical vaccines protect the individual for the rest of their life.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        They're going back to mask mandates because the numbers are going back up due to unvaccinated people... I thought this was all clear?
        chitowneats 5y ago
        Did you even read the article? Vax rates in Israel are extremely high.
FreakyT 5y ago
Exactly -- people are still free to not get vaccinated, but they're not free to go to aggregate settings where they might infect everyone there, which seems like a reasonable compromise. It's the same approach as with antivax parents -- don't want your kids vaccinated? Then you'll need to homeschool them.
- epicureanideal 5y ago
  But if others are already vaccinated, how does an unvaccinated coworker infect a vaccinated coworker?
  - FreakyT 5y ago
    IIRC, unvaccinated are more likely to get infected and also typically have higher viral loads, which corresponds to higher infectiousness.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      This contradicts the latest science from the CDC: https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cdc-change-masks-delta-variant-spreads-rcna1526 https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cd... "The CDC has found, however, that in rare breakthrough infections — instances where a fully vaccinated person tests positive for the virus — the amount of virus in that vaccinated person's system is similar to the viral load in an infected individual who is unvaccinated." One could be forgiven though for not being up to date on the latest oscillation.
  - bigmattystyles 5y ago
    Breakthrough infections and questions about transmissibility even if vaccinated aside, consider this: a second unvaccinated coworker.
    - epicureanideal 5y ago
      Breakthrough infections are rare, right? And a second unvaccinated coworker is also someone that has chosen not to be vaccinated, right? (Obviously there may be some individuals who can't get the vaccine, but that should be a relatively rare circumstance, and could have policies around dealing with it.)
daenz 5y ago
Thanks, I've edited the title to include the full headline. It didn't fully fit in the input box, so I had trimmed it.
TeeMassive 5y ago
"They can still take the bus but they must sit in the back" I'm getting downvoted but people who refuse to get vaccinated tend to be poor and minorities. And who can blame them for not wanting the government injecting a needle inside their body given the US history? PS: I'm not antivax by any means, I got my two shots.
- penny4yourthot 5y ago
  I'm trying to think how this could be even close to the same situation. I realize it's hard to believe I'm not being snarky, but I'm legitimately asking. How is this similar to segregation based on skin color?
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    Religious convictions, lack of trust, fear of getting an experimental vaccine (which it is under the laws they were authorized and developed). To answer to your question, those things are very hard to change although not at hard as race.
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    Not the GP, but I'm imagining that they meant that in the same way the 'War on Drugs' was not discrimination based on skin color, it had a disproportinate impact on African-American communities (which for all accounts was by design). Lower socioeconomic communities have poorer access to vaccinations and lower rates of vaccination. Just because something does not claim to discriminate by race, does not make it true. Measures to segregate the unvaccinated WILL impact lower socioeconomic communities more than middle class communities.
    - Animats 5y ago
      Lower socioeconomic communities have poorer access to vaccinations Early on, maybe. Not now. Find the poorest zip code in Alabama, 35203, which is in Birmingham. Look it up in Vaccines.gov. Nearest vaccination locations: Publix Supermarket, 0.79 miles, in stock. UAB Hospital, 1.03 miles, in stock. Walgreens, 1.62 miles. CVS, 1.65 and 1.74 miles. Legion Field vaccination clinic, 1.99 miles. There are a dozen more within 5 miles. That's a populated area. If you look for Cotopia, AL, a small remote town in the poorest county in Alabama, where the post office closed in 1986, it's not quite as easy. You have to go 9 miles, to the nearest WalMart (#10-0731). If you can make it to a WalMart, a CVS, or a Walgreens, you can get vaccinated.
acituan 5y ago
> To be perfectly clear, they are mandating employees be vaccinated if they want to physically go in to an office, not to do (or keep) their jobs That is not perfectly clear actually. From what I’ve heard refusal requires a “talk” with the HR. Sounds like termination is on the menu if company doesn’t want to grant remote privileges to that person.
- yellow_lead 5y ago
  What happens to people with health problems preventing vaccination? I assume they would ask for proof, at which point you have to reveal your private health condition. EDIT: I suppose a doctor's note could say you can't be vaccinated without revealing why.
throwawaysea 5y ago
Given that the CDC just admitted that vaccinated people can also spread COVID (by reissuing mask guidance), what is the point of requiring vaccinations?
- jlokier 5y ago
  > What is the point? It affects the balance of propabilities, and that is everything in the current situation. Shifts in probabilities make the difference between large scale disease (a wave growing exponentially) or not (decaying to zero). They CDC have always acknowledged that vaccinated people can spread COVID-19 with some probability. There is no "admission" because that's not new. What's changing the advice is new measurements, modeling, social behaviours, vaccination levels (or hesitancy), and the delta variant all update the balance of probabilities.

bananabiscuit 5y ago

But Google is also planning on requiring people to go back to the office starting September. You can apply for a transfer to a remote position, but that requires that there be a remote position available for you to take and then finding it and matching into it. So yeah, sounds like unless you are already remote, they are requiring you take the vaccine in order to keep your job.

Justin_Time 5y ago
As mentioned in the article, this date is being pushed back to (at least) mid-October.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  At which point you will be dismissed if you have not found and secured a remote position within the company. That part of the policy has not changed. Until they announce it has we should assume they are intending to follow though.
  - shaklee3 5y ago
    It's a choice though. You could just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired.
    - atatatat 5y ago
      That is the dichotomy that is being criticized, yes.
    - joshuahughes 5y ago
      "just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired" The word 'just' must be one of the most heavily used words of the last 18 months. The problem is that 'just' is the start of a slippery slope. Governments and organisations rarely withdraw authoritarian diktats, once we've allowed them in.
      - shaklee3 5y ago
        The vaccine has an overwhelming amount of data showing it's effective, and very little showing side effects. At some point it's a national responsibility to get it. If you don't, then there's nothing that says you should have a job at faang.
        chitowneats 5y ago
        So effective that we're going back to mask mandates, talking feverishly about boosters, etc. And this is for already vaccinated individuals. Can't blame the boogeyman "anti-vaxxers" for increases in cases and hospitalizations in countries where Pfizer is readily admitting that the "immunity" granted by their product is "waning": https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-v... Are we ready to have an adult conversation about mRNA gene therapy and how it differs from traditional vaccines? We're up to 3 shots a year already. Typical vaccines protect the individual for the rest of their life.
        shaklee3 5y ago
        They're going back to mask mandates because the numbers are going back up due to unvaccinated people... I thought this was all clear?
        chitowneats 5y ago
        Did you even read the article? Vax rates in Israel are extremely high.

FreakyT 5y ago

Exactly -- people are still free to not get vaccinated, but they're not free to go to aggregate settings where they might infect everyone there, which seems like a reasonable compromise. It's the same approach as with antivax parents -- don't want your kids vaccinated? Then you'll need to homeschool them.

epicureanideal 5y ago
But if others are already vaccinated, how does an unvaccinated coworker infect a vaccinated coworker?
- FreakyT 5y ago
  IIRC, unvaccinated are more likely to get infected and also typically have higher viral loads, which corresponds to higher infectiousness.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    This contradicts the latest science from the CDC: https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cdc-change-masks-delta-variant-spreads-rcna1526 https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cd... "The CDC has found, however, that in rare breakthrough infections — instances where a fully vaccinated person tests positive for the virus — the amount of virus in that vaccinated person's system is similar to the viral load in an infected individual who is unvaccinated." One could be forgiven though for not being up to date on the latest oscillation.
- bigmattystyles 5y ago
  Breakthrough infections and questions about transmissibility even if vaccinated aside, consider this: a second unvaccinated coworker.
  - epicureanideal 5y ago
    Breakthrough infections are rare, right? And a second unvaccinated coworker is also someone that has chosen not to be vaccinated, right? (Obviously there may be some individuals who can't get the vaccine, but that should be a relatively rare circumstance, and could have policies around dealing with it.)

daenz 5y ago

Thanks, I've edited the title to include the full headline. It didn't fully fit in the input box, so I had trimmed it.

TeeMassive 5y ago

"They can still take the bus but they must sit in the back" I'm getting downvoted but people who refuse to get vaccinated tend to be poor and minorities. And who can blame them for not wanting the government injecting a needle inside their body given the US history? PS: I'm not antivax by any means, I got my two shots.

penny4yourthot 5y ago
I'm trying to think how this could be even close to the same situation. I realize it's hard to believe I'm not being snarky, but I'm legitimately asking. How is this similar to segregation based on skin color?
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  Religious convictions, lack of trust, fear of getting an experimental vaccine (which it is under the laws they were authorized and developed). To answer to your question, those things are very hard to change although not at hard as race.
- jimmydorry 5y ago
  Not the GP, but I'm imagining that they meant that in the same way the 'War on Drugs' was not discrimination based on skin color, it had a disproportinate impact on African-American communities (which for all accounts was by design). Lower socioeconomic communities have poorer access to vaccinations and lower rates of vaccination. Just because something does not claim to discriminate by race, does not make it true. Measures to segregate the unvaccinated WILL impact lower socioeconomic communities more than middle class communities.
  - Animats 5y ago
    Lower socioeconomic communities have poorer access to vaccinations Early on, maybe. Not now. Find the poorest zip code in Alabama, 35203, which is in Birmingham. Look it up in Vaccines.gov. Nearest vaccination locations: Publix Supermarket, 0.79 miles, in stock. UAB Hospital, 1.03 miles, in stock. Walgreens, 1.62 miles. CVS, 1.65 and 1.74 miles. Legion Field vaccination clinic, 1.99 miles. There are a dozen more within 5 miles. That's a populated area. If you look for Cotopia, AL, a small remote town in the poorest county in Alabama, where the post office closed in 1986, it's not quite as easy. You have to go 9 miles, to the nearest WalMart (#10-0731). If you can make it to a WalMart, a CVS, or a Walgreens, you can get vaccinated.

acituan 5y ago

> To be perfectly clear, they are mandating employees be vaccinated if they want to physically go in to an office, not to do (or keep) their jobs That is not perfectly clear actually. From what I’ve heard refusal requires a “talk” with the HR. Sounds like termination is on the menu if company doesn’t want to grant remote privileges to that person.

yellow_lead 5y ago
What happens to people with health problems preventing vaccination? I assume they would ask for proof, at which point you have to reveal your private health condition. EDIT: I suppose a doctor's note could say you can't be vaccinated without revealing why.

throwawaysea 5y ago

Given that the CDC just admitted that vaccinated people can also spread COVID (by reissuing mask guidance), what is the point of requiring vaccinations?

jlokier 5y ago
> What is the point? It affects the balance of propabilities, and that is everything in the current situation. Shifts in probabilities make the difference between large scale disease (a wave growing exponentially) or not (decaying to zero). They CDC have always acknowledged that vaccinated people can spread COVID-19 with some probability. There is no "admission" because that's not new. What's changing the advice is new measurements, modeling, social behaviours, vaccination levels (or hesitancy), and the delta variant all update the balance of probabilities.