13 ms·

Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

271 points by 737min 5y ago

xeromal 5y ago
I love this very methodical, Sherlock Holmes style of investigating. It clearly worked too. They found 84% of the 100 victims.
- potiuper 5y ago
  "Nearly 100"; the use of statistics in the article is jarring. Also, the explanation of the Israeli's methodology is lacking; the cropped screenshots are not very helpful in determining what the software can do. How does it map the "voids" to the previous structure? The map creation is certainly a probabilistic process. So, what expectation thresholds are being used? No names for the "2-D and 3-D" software. What is sorely missing is any references. Only can assume the software is all in house to the IDF.
  - intro-b 5y ago
    did you even read the article? it goes somewhat deep into how they plan and orchestrate it, especially for a normal publication
    - potiuper 5y ago
      Yes, I did read the article, and have listed details it would benefit from to allow further investigation.
- mannykannot 5y ago
  The key insights seem to be: 1) Despite the chaos, the debris of a collapsed building can be mapped to the structure as it was when standing. 2) All sorts of information can be used in figuring out where you are - the breed of a dog corpse, a scrap of paper with the name of a victim's rabbi... 3) Be skeptical of secondary sources (estimates of the number of victims...) 4) Bureaucrats will be obstructive just by doing their job as if nothing has happened (we can't tell you that...) One thing that was not mentioned, but which I imagine was part of the calculus, is what people are likely to do at the first sign of trouble (in this case, noise and shaking) - head for the stairs, go to the window, wait for it to stop...
  - beerandt 5y ago
    The part about how quickly they figured out the number of missing was actually 97-99, opposed to the "official" number ~150, was really impressive. Of all the things the article covers, I'm most interested to know more about how they interview friends and family so quickly and efficiently, when things are still so raw and emotional. It does say that half the team is dedicated to that task, at least initially.
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    > scrap of paper with the name of a victim's rabbi... I can definitely see this as plausible.
- void_mint 5y ago
  > They found 84% of the 100 victims. The chilling and sad realization that it wasn't "They found 84 out of 100 victims"
  - beerandt 5y ago
    They say 81 victims out of 97. You're overthinking it. ETA: 81, not 80. >he knew precisely where each victim would be located. >He personally found 20. His team, he said, recovered 81 by the time the last member departed Surfside on July 11. Even the freaking byline reads: >The Israeli Defense Forces’ National Rescue Unit recovered 81 of the 97 victims from the Champlain Towers South condo collapse site in Surfside.
    - mym1990 5y ago
      The quote is 'In all, the Israeli team found about 84% of the nearly 100 victims.' and the realization that they might mean that they found 84% of the body parts vs 84% of the people.
      - cromka 5y ago
        That would mean they would have to know the exact body mass of the 100 victims prior to their death and weighed each recovered piece of flesh. That's morbid and really just overthinking it.
        mym1990 5y ago
        1. I was just pointing out thats where the OP mind could wander to, especially within the context of the story. 2. The irony is that you are the one overthinking by going as far as to suggest weighing flesh. One can recover a body from the waist up and consider it 50%.
- TroisM 5y ago
  > It clearly worked too. They found 84% of the 100 victims. finding 100% of the victims should have been possible, but of course countries spend more on killing... I think they are just trying to bring Israel's image up since they are killing so many innocent people in the Gaza Strip... For some reason, Biden loves Israel (is that because of their religion? IE: they believe the same lies that he does)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
trothamel 5y ago
https://twitter.com/MiamiDadeFire/status/1414340434814513156 https://twitter.com/MiamiDadeFire/status/1414340434814513156 Here's the tribute Miami-Date Fire Rescue gave their plane before it took off.
DSingularity 5y ago
It would be nice if they help with recovering the remains of building collapses in Gaza. Building collapses are a common occurrence there.
- Trias11 5y ago
  It's highly correlated with rockets being fired off nearby. Quite predictable.
  - syops 5y ago
    Which are correlated with illegal confiscation of land and property by Jewish settlers. Which is correlated with so on and so forth.
    - bushbaba 5y ago
      Which is correlated by Arabs loosing wars they started against the state of Israel. Heck many of those “settlements” are people returning to their ancestral lands of judea and sumeria. Which was taken by the romans and named Palestina. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina
      - napmo 5y ago
        This is a myth. Many so-called Israelis come from Africa and elsewhere, while the others' claim about their fathers being there 4000 years before, is also invalid and irrelevant to claim over a territory today. Anyway, none of their claims legitimize Israelis actions in killing and terrorizing Palestinians, including women and children: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/hldterrorising-a-generation-israelarrestingpalestinianchildren https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/hldterrorising-a-ge...
  - DSingularity 5y ago
    Yeah, according to the people that launch the bombs. Yet, according to the pictures, the people that take the pictures, the people that are humanitarians, and pretty much the world consensus — the only correlation is that the victims being bombed are almost always Arab Palestinians who won’t surrender their rights to Israel. But who is surprised that a colonial power oppresses the indigenous population?
gaze 5y ago
why are the IDF there?
- trynumber9 5y ago
  because they volunteered and the Miami emergency response was willing to accept their help. They were then authorized to participate in the operations. The article lists many other countries this unit has also volunteered to help.
- napmo 5y ago
  It is called "publicity stunt". They want to wash the bloods off their hand in the public view. They have killed more than 100k Palestinians since they have occupied their land in 1948. And the fun fact here is that the IDF has roots in the terrorist groups like Haganah, Irgun and Lehi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) Even today, IDF is a terror group and executes terror plots across the world. This is separate from their daily killing and torture of the Palestinians.
  - js212 5y ago
    Wtf is wrong with you. Not the right thread to start this.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Miami has many Israeli expats, this building specifically had many dual Israeli-American citizens and the family and friends of the victims called for the IDF to come help, the governor, and mayor ok-ed it so they came. Many countries have disaster recovery teams specifically tasked with assisting in international catastrophes, the Israeli one happens to be a division of the IDF, probably for budgetary reasons.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
    It makes sense why it would be part of the IDF. In Israel, the usual reason you need disaster response is an act of terrorism. Having the disaster recovery and security forces all under a single authority makes coordinating a response much easier.
tolbish 5y ago
Very interesting! Does anyone have more information on how they were selected? It's not exactly a local operation.
- wumpus 5y ago
  A bunch of missing residents belonged to the same synagogue. The IDF unit was one of several international search and rescue teams to volunteer.
  - tolbish 5y ago
    Yes, but how were they selected?
deleted 5y ago
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mym1990 5y ago
Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical volunteer, pulling body parts out of rubble would be a fairly life changing event, and the number of people in the world with the experience and grit to tackle this gracefully can't be a long list.
- tguvot 5y ago
  >Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. Actually they don't really have similar "field experience" from Israel (fortunately). They do have a bunch of training with artificially made piles of rubbles and whenever something happens somewhere in the world (earthquakes, tsunamis, etc) they usually among first to arrive.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Watching and reading about the teams arriving in Christchurch, New Zealand after the earthquake that happened there was really impressive and inspiring. Countries that seemed far away and uninvolved had teams touching down at staggered intervals and brought resources and skill that really helped. International search and rescue seems to be a little world of its own that operates away from the noise and bickering of ‘normal’ international relations.
    - abraae 5y ago
      These are amongst the few bonding experiences in today's world, like the Thai cave rescues.
    - andreskytt 5y ago
      Because everyone benefits. The helpers get first hand experience, the helped get rapid scaleup of capabilities. Nobody’s interested in messing this up as everybody knows they might be next. This is the sort of positive feedback that keeps the world turning.
deleted 5y ago
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deleted 5y ago
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irjustin 5y ago
Absolutely incredible. At first, I was skeptical and even wondering why an IDF group was there, but now I'm in absolute awe of the abilities of disciplined, well trained groups. > This is it. There will be no more than 98 or 99. Not a single one more. Precision of a surgeon or sniper with first principles first. Initially, it would seem like a waste to do this work, but it clearly helped.
robertwt7 5y ago
>Israeli team has fewer members so they learn to be 'small and swift' It is amazing to see how they work to save those people, at the same time terrifying to think how they got those experience with all those never ending wars throughout their lifetime. Salut to the team for helping those in grief. Also from wikipedia: >Distinct from possible construction defects, an analysis of European Remote-Sensing Satellite data by Florida International University indicates that the building had been sinking during the 1990s at a significant rate of about two millimeters (0.079 in) per year. While 97 percent of Miami Beach had been stable, 1,555 of 18,949 points in Miami Beach had been sinking, at a rate of less than one millimeter (0.039 in) per year. This is actually terrifying to hear
- colordrops 5y ago
  So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.
  - mellow-lake-day 5y ago
    It may have contributed to it but in this case the bigger problem was an error in the construction of the building: > In 2018, an inspection performed by the engineering firm Morabito Consultants showed a "major error" in the construction of the pool deck, whereby the waterproofing layer was not sloped. Water that collected on the waterproofing remained until it could evaporate. Over the years, the concrete slabs below the pool deck had been severely damaged by this water. The report noted the waterproofing below the pool deck was beyond its useful life and needed to be completely removed and replaced. > On June 30, WLS-TV in Chicago publicized a bystander's video of water pouring into the parking garage from above near its entrance, and apparent concrete rubble lying on the floor, apparently taken at 1:18 a.m., seven minutes before the north-central portion of the building collapsed. From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse#Possible_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse#...
slim 5y ago
This is suprisingly interesting. They use a 3D model to geographically identify each sub-unit of the original building in the rubbles. Then they gather intelligence on clues in each unit to confirm their data and adjust their model accordingly. Doing this they are able to improve precision and identify smaller units in the rubbles (ex. identify each room within a house). It's really an intelligence unit with the added capacity of excavating and moving rubble. I can see the usefulness of this for an army. Buildings, especially buildings targeted during conflicts, contain precious and strategical objects and information. Being able to recover them is crucial.
- tguvot 5y ago
  They are part of the army, but it's part that is called Homefront Command that is tasked with civil defense: preparing the population for a conflict or disaster, assisting the population during the crisis, and contributing to post-crisis reconstruction. It mostly focuses on civilians and infrastructure.
EdwardDiego 5y ago
Bless this team. In my life, I've realised (via harsh experience) how necessary a body is for healthy human grieving. I'm not entirely sure why, my gut feeling is that it's something primitive in the human animal, but I've witnessed it enough to respect the effort SAR teams put into body recovery.
jimmy2020 5y ago
It would be great if IDF did the same when it comes to Gaza: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes...
- dutchy15 5y ago
  IDF offered help recently to Lebanon during the crisis. Lebanon refused. You can guess how the response of Gaza will look like...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jkkorn 5y ago
  Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch#:~:text=Critics%20of%20HRW%20include%20the,response%20to%20critical%20HRW%20reports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc.... Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/palestinians-accuse-hamas-of-storing-weapons-in-residential-areas-674793 https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/palestinians-accuse-hamas-...
  - zensavona 5y ago
    Is Amnesty also biased? https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...
    - jkkorn 5y ago
      I don't know as much about them, sorry. Quick Google search showed that there has been some claims of selection bias and "not telling the full story". My take is that they're doing a disservice to both sides.
jgb1984 5y ago
Great! During the week they're killing children and civilians in the land they stole, on the weekend they're making up with a citytrip to the US to do some good deeds. After that it's back to bulldozing houses and schools in Palestine.
- tguvot 5y ago
  It's different units. The one that is responsible for bulldozing is engineering forces. This one is search and rescue /s
  - jimmy2020 5y ago
    Yes. One unit for PR and the other for genocide.
i_am_new_here 5y ago
Today in the Jewish controlled press: Israel is doing great thing X (They left out the chance to point out how bad their neighbors are in comparison). And: "Great thing X" = Recovering... dead... bodies... fast... to help relatives (goyims) to come to terms faster (everything is so typically jewish about this "help", thank you, chosen people). Isn't there any place where you could do something with/for goyims before they die :-D :-D :-D? Do you(jews) even see what you do and how this is (at least subconsciously) perceived?: You are helping other ethnicities recover their dead... fast... and you are super proud of it (knowing a lot of details). Coming up in the replies soon: Israel=/=Jews
- dang 5y ago
  You can't do this here and we've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
radycov 5y ago
Funny the IDF don't really seem to be doing much search and rescue here - more like ethnic cleansing and apartheid: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54823660 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54823660 "The United Nations has rebuked Israel for carrying out what it said was the biggest demolition of Palestinian homes in the occupied West Bank for a decade. Some 73 people, including 41 children, were made homeless when their dwellings were knocked down in the Bedouin settlement of Khirbet Humsa, in the Jordan Valley, the UN said."
- Zhenya 5y ago
  1) offtopic 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally.
  - radycov 5y ago
    Actually it's entirely on topic because it shows an alternative reality starkly juxtaposed against humanitarian propaganda. I have no doubt if this was China or Russia or Saudi Arabia being discussed it would be fair game. Israel deserves to be held to a far higher level of scrutiny given its military might is entirely funded by US tax payers and AIPAC controlled Congress.
    - Zhenya 5y ago
      This one is easy: US provides Israel with roughly $5-6B in military funding which has to be spent back with US suppliers (please add details if anyone has it) The total IDF budget in 2011 (latest I could find and has increased) is over $20b. more reading: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget -https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-military https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you... (aljazeera of all places!) I dont think $6B=$20B.
      - throwaway210222 5y ago
        (aljazeera of all places!) Curious why you find that curious.
kaminar 5y ago
Wow, what a bunch of anti Semitic, racist assholes HN has. This story is about a humanitarian effort, and all you people can do is start your once again bogus tirade. Kudos to those who posted positive thoughts and comments.

271 points by 737min 5y ago

I love this very methodical, Sherlock Holmes style of investigating. It clearly worked too. They found 84% of the 100 victims.

potiuper 5y ago
"Nearly 100"; the use of statistics in the article is jarring. Also, the explanation of the Israeli's methodology is lacking; the cropped screenshots are not very helpful in determining what the software can do. How does it map the "voids" to the previous structure? The map creation is certainly a probabilistic process. So, what expectation thresholds are being used? No names for the "2-D and 3-D" software. What is sorely missing is any references. Only can assume the software is all in house to the IDF.
- intro-b 5y ago
  did you even read the article? it goes somewhat deep into how they plan and orchestrate it, especially for a normal publication
  - potiuper 5y ago
    Yes, I did read the article, and have listed details it would benefit from to allow further investigation.
mannykannot 5y ago
The key insights seem to be: 1) Despite the chaos, the debris of a collapsed building can be mapped to the structure as it was when standing. 2) All sorts of information can be used in figuring out where you are - the breed of a dog corpse, a scrap of paper with the name of a victim's rabbi... 3) Be skeptical of secondary sources (estimates of the number of victims...) 4) Bureaucrats will be obstructive just by doing their job as if nothing has happened (we can't tell you that...) One thing that was not mentioned, but which I imagine was part of the calculus, is what people are likely to do at the first sign of trouble (in this case, noise and shaking) - head for the stairs, go to the window, wait for it to stop...
- beerandt 5y ago
  The part about how quickly they figured out the number of missing was actually 97-99, opposed to the "official" number ~150, was really impressive. Of all the things the article covers, I'm most interested to know more about how they interview friends and family so quickly and efficiently, when things are still so raw and emotional. It does say that half the team is dedicated to that task, at least initially.
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  > scrap of paper with the name of a victim's rabbi... I can definitely see this as plausible.
void_mint 5y ago
> They found 84% of the 100 victims. The chilling and sad realization that it wasn't "They found 84 out of 100 victims"
- beerandt 5y ago
  They say 81 victims out of 97. You're overthinking it. ETA: 81, not 80. >he knew precisely where each victim would be located. >He personally found 20. His team, he said, recovered 81 by the time the last member departed Surfside on July 11. Even the freaking byline reads: >The Israeli Defense Forces’ National Rescue Unit recovered 81 of the 97 victims from the Champlain Towers South condo collapse site in Surfside.
  - mym1990 5y ago
    The quote is 'In all, the Israeli team found about 84% of the nearly 100 victims.' and the realization that they might mean that they found 84% of the body parts vs 84% of the people.
    - cromka 5y ago
      That would mean they would have to know the exact body mass of the 100 victims prior to their death and weighed each recovered piece of flesh. That's morbid and really just overthinking it.
      - mym1990 5y ago
        1. I was just pointing out thats where the OP mind could wander to, especially within the context of the story. 2. The irony is that you are the one overthinking by going as far as to suggest weighing flesh. One can recover a body from the waist up and consider it 50%.
TroisM 5y ago
> It clearly worked too. They found 84% of the 100 victims. finding 100% of the victims should have been possible, but of course countries spend more on killing... I think they are just trying to bring Israel's image up since they are killing so many innocent people in the Gaza Strip... For some reason, Biden loves Israel (is that because of their religion? IE: they believe the same lies that he does)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

trothamel 5y ago

https://twitter.com/MiamiDadeFire/status/1414340434814513156 https://twitter.com/MiamiDadeFire/status/1414340434814513156 Here's the tribute Miami-Date Fire Rescue gave their plane before it took off.

DSingularity 5y ago

It would be nice if they help with recovering the remains of building collapses in Gaza. Building collapses are a common occurrence there.

Trias11 5y ago
It's highly correlated with rockets being fired off nearby. Quite predictable.
- syops 5y ago
  Which are correlated with illegal confiscation of land and property by Jewish settlers. Which is correlated with so on and so forth.
  - bushbaba 5y ago
    Which is correlated by Arabs loosing wars they started against the state of Israel. Heck many of those “settlements” are people returning to their ancestral lands of judea and sumeria. Which was taken by the romans and named Palestina. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina
    - napmo 5y ago
      This is a myth. Many so-called Israelis come from Africa and elsewhere, while the others' claim about their fathers being there 4000 years before, is also invalid and irrelevant to claim over a territory today. Anyway, none of their claims legitimize Israelis actions in killing and terrorizing Palestinians, including women and children: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/hldterrorising-a-generation-israelarrestingpalestinianchildren https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/28/hldterrorising-a-ge...
- DSingularity 5y ago
  Yeah, according to the people that launch the bombs. Yet, according to the pictures, the people that take the pictures, the people that are humanitarians, and pretty much the world consensus — the only correlation is that the victims being bombed are almost always Arab Palestinians who won’t surrender their rights to Israel. But who is surprised that a colonial power oppresses the indigenous population?

gaze 5y ago

why are the IDF there?

trynumber9 5y ago
because they volunteered and the Miami emergency response was willing to accept their help. They were then authorized to participate in the operations. The article lists many other countries this unit has also volunteered to help.
napmo 5y ago
It is called "publicity stunt". They want to wash the bloods off their hand in the public view. They have killed more than 100k Palestinians since they have occupied their land in 1948. And the fun fact here is that the IDF has roots in the terrorist groups like Haganah, Irgun and Lehi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) Even today, IDF is a terror group and executes terror plots across the world. This is separate from their daily killing and torture of the Palestinians.
- js212 5y ago
  Wtf is wrong with you. Not the right thread to start this.
vxNsr 5y ago
Miami has many Israeli expats, this building specifically had many dual Israeli-American citizens and the family and friends of the victims called for the IDF to come help, the governor, and mayor ok-ed it so they came. Many countries have disaster recovery teams specifically tasked with assisting in international catastrophes, the Israeli one happens to be a division of the IDF, probably for budgetary reasons.
- hn_go_brrrrr 5y ago
  It makes sense why it would be part of the IDF. In Israel, the usual reason you need disaster response is an act of terrorism. Having the disaster recovery and security forces all under a single authority makes coordinating a response much easier.

tolbish 5y ago

Very interesting! Does anyone have more information on how they were selected? It's not exactly a local operation.

wumpus 5y ago
A bunch of missing residents belonged to the same synagogue. The IDF unit was one of several international search and rescue teams to volunteer.
- tolbish 5y ago
  Yes, but how were they selected?

deleted 5y ago

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mym1990 5y ago

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical volunteer, pulling body parts out of rubble would be a fairly life changing event, and the number of people in the world with the experience and grit to tackle this gracefully can't be a long list.

tguvot 5y ago
>Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. Actually they don't really have similar "field experience" from Israel (fortunately). They do have a bunch of training with artificially made piles of rubbles and whenever something happens somewhere in the world (earthquakes, tsunamis, etc) they usually among first to arrive.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  Watching and reading about the teams arriving in Christchurch, New Zealand after the earthquake that happened there was really impressive and inspiring. Countries that seemed far away and uninvolved had teams touching down at staggered intervals and brought resources and skill that really helped. International search and rescue seems to be a little world of its own that operates away from the noise and bickering of ‘normal’ international relations.
  - abraae 5y ago
    These are amongst the few bonding experiences in today's world, like the Thai cave rescues.
  - andreskytt 5y ago
    Because everyone benefits. The helpers get first hand experience, the helped get rapid scaleup of capabilities. Nobody’s interested in messing this up as everybody knows they might be next. This is the sort of positive feedback that keeps the world turning.

deleted 5y ago

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irjustin 5y ago

Absolutely incredible. At first, I was skeptical and even wondering why an IDF group was there, but now I'm in absolute awe of the abilities of disciplined, well trained groups. > This is it. There will be no more than 98 or 99. Not a single one more. Precision of a surgeon or sniper with first principles first. Initially, it would seem like a waste to do this work, but it clearly helped.

robertwt7 5y ago

>Israeli team has fewer members so they learn to be 'small and swift' It is amazing to see how they work to save those people, at the same time terrifying to think how they got those experience with all those never ending wars throughout their lifetime. Salut to the team for helping those in grief. Also from wikipedia: >Distinct from possible construction defects, an analysis of European Remote-Sensing Satellite data by Florida International University indicates that the building had been sinking during the 1990s at a significant rate of about two millimeters (0.079 in) per year. While 97 percent of Miami Beach had been stable, 1,555 of 18,949 points in Miami Beach had been sinking, at a rate of less than one millimeter (0.039 in) per year. This is actually terrifying to hear

colordrops 5y ago
So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.
- mellow-lake-day 5y ago
  It may have contributed to it but in this case the bigger problem was an error in the construction of the building: > In 2018, an inspection performed by the engineering firm Morabito Consultants showed a "major error" in the construction of the pool deck, whereby the waterproofing layer was not sloped. Water that collected on the waterproofing remained until it could evaporate. Over the years, the concrete slabs below the pool deck had been severely damaged by this water. The report noted the waterproofing below the pool deck was beyond its useful life and needed to be completely removed and replaced. > On June 30, WLS-TV in Chicago publicized a bystander's video of water pouring into the parking garage from above near its entrance, and apparent concrete rubble lying on the floor, apparently taken at 1:18 a.m., seven minutes before the north-central portion of the building collapsed. From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse#Possible_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse#...

slim 5y ago

This is suprisingly interesting. They use a 3D model to geographically identify each sub-unit of the original building in the rubbles. Then they gather intelligence on clues in each unit to confirm their data and adjust their model accordingly. Doing this they are able to improve precision and identify smaller units in the rubbles (ex. identify each room within a house). It's really an intelligence unit with the added capacity of excavating and moving rubble. I can see the usefulness of this for an army. Buildings, especially buildings targeted during conflicts, contain precious and strategical objects and information. Being able to recover them is crucial.

tguvot 5y ago
They are part of the army, but it's part that is called Homefront Command that is tasked with civil defense: preparing the population for a conflict or disaster, assisting the population during the crisis, and contributing to post-crisis reconstruction. It mostly focuses on civilians and infrastructure.

EdwardDiego 5y ago

Bless this team. In my life, I've realised (via harsh experience) how necessary a body is for healthy human grieving. I'm not entirely sure why, my gut feeling is that it's something primitive in the human animal, but I've witnessed it enough to respect the effort SAR teams put into body recovery.

jimmy2020 5y ago

It would be great if IDF did the same when it comes to Gaza: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes...

dutchy15 5y ago
IDF offered help recently to Lebanon during the crisis. Lebanon refused. You can guess how the response of Gaza will look like...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jkkorn 5y ago
Don't they do everything to avoid hitting civilians? My guess is that they do more to protect the average palestinian than meets the eye....definitely more than Hamas or Fatah Also, I'd take HRW with a grain of salt when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Even their founder has expressed concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch#:~:text=Critics%20of%20HRW%20include%20the,response%20to%20critical%20HRW%20reports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watc.... Might be interesting: https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/palestinians-accuse-hamas-of-storing-weapons-in-residential-areas-674793 https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/palestinians-accuse-hamas-...
- zensavona 5y ago
  Is Amnesty also biased? https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...
  - jkkorn 5y ago
    I don't know as much about them, sorry. Quick Google search showed that there has been some claims of selection bias and "not telling the full story". My take is that they're doing a disservice to both sides.

jgb1984 5y ago

Great! During the week they're killing children and civilians in the land they stole, on the weekend they're making up with a citytrip to the US to do some good deeds. After that it's back to bulldozing houses and schools in Palestine.

tguvot 5y ago
It's different units. The one that is responsible for bulldozing is engineering forces. This one is search and rescue /s
- jimmy2020 5y ago
  Yes. One unit for PR and the other for genocide.

i_am_new_here 5y ago

Today in the Jewish controlled press: Israel is doing great thing X (They left out the chance to point out how bad their neighbors are in comparison). And: "Great thing X" = Recovering... dead... bodies... fast... to help relatives (goyims) to come to terms faster (everything is so typically jewish about this "help", thank you, chosen people). Isn't there any place where you could do something with/for goyims before they die :-D :-D :-D? Do you(jews) even see what you do and how this is (at least subconsciously) perceived?: You are helping other ethnicities recover their dead... fast... and you are super proud of it (knowing a lot of details). Coming up in the replies soon: Israel=/=Jews

dang 5y ago
You can't do this here and we've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

radycov 5y ago

Funny the IDF don't really seem to be doing much search and rescue here - more like ethnic cleansing and apartheid: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54823660 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54823660 "The United Nations has rebuked Israel for carrying out what it said was the biggest demolition of Palestinian homes in the occupied West Bank for a decade. Some 73 people, including 41 children, were made homeless when their dwellings were knocked down in the Bedouin settlement of Khirbet Humsa, in the Jordan Valley, the UN said."

Zhenya 5y ago
1) offtopic 2) The Israeli military said the structures had been built illegally.
- radycov 5y ago
  Actually it's entirely on topic because it shows an alternative reality starkly juxtaposed against humanitarian propaganda. I have no doubt if this was China or Russia or Saudi Arabia being discussed it would be fair game. Israel deserves to be held to a far higher level of scrutiny given its military might is entirely funded by US tax payers and AIPAC controlled Congress.
  - Zhenya 5y ago
    This one is easy: US provides Israel with roughly $5-6B in military funding which has to be spent back with US suppliers (please add details if anyone has it) The total IDF budget in 2011 (latest I could find and has increased) is over $20b. more reading: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Budget -https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-military https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/4/infographic-what-you... (aljazeera of all places!) I dont think $6B=$20B.
    - throwaway210222 5y ago
      (aljazeera of all places!) Curious why you find that curious.

kaminar 5y ago

Wow, what a bunch of anti Semitic, racist assholes HN has. This story is about a humanitarian effort, and all you people can do is start your once again bogus tirade. Kudos to those who posted positive thoughts and comments.