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Why not can you imagine having the freedom to change your car nearly instantly and go wherever you want. No range anxiety

by rdtwo 5y ago

loonster 5y ago
Imagine how cheap gas would be if no one wanted it.
- fossuser 5y ago
  I’d guess it’d be obscenely expensive without economies of scale based on current demand and distribution. As far as “no range anxiety” people in that world would just be making similar arguments, “what if there’s no nearby gas station”, “what if it’s out of gas”, “I can’t just plug-in anywhere” etc.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > I’d guess it’d be obscenely expensive without economies of scale based on current demand and distribution. Then swap out gasoline for diesel. If nothing else, I can get vegetable oil at the grocery store at a price that isn't too bad. > As far as “no range anxiety” people in that world would just be making similar arguments, “what if there’s no nearby gas station”, “what if it’s out of gas”, “I can’t just plug-in anywhere” etc. That's not how (plug-in, and surely these would be plug-in) hybrids work...
  - madhadron 5y ago
    That argument about gas was a major argument against gasoline cars back in the day. It took major infrastructure investment to build out the gas network.
    - fossuser 5y ago
      At the time there was no good alternative with existing infrastructure in place. Today with EVs and modern battery tech that isn’t true.
  - loonster 5y ago
    Fractional distillation. You are going to get what you are going to get. Unless you find suitable alternatives for all oil products, gasoline will still be produced in the same quantities. Somebody will find something to do with the unused byproduct gasoline. I consider filling up my car to be a noble use instead of just burning it.
CamperBob2 5y ago
In a sane world, it would take less time to recharge an EV, not more. Good industrial and government leadership, working together, would have given us a swappable battery standard by now.
- bobsil1 5y ago
  The new 800V EVs only take 15 minutes from ~20% to 80%.
  - CamperBob2 5y ago
    Which is 10 minutes longer than it takes me to refuel my IC vehicles from 5% to 100%, and 14 minutes longer than it should take. It's funny how HN'ers will fight to the death arguing for swappable batteries in cell phones, where they offer vanishingly few benefits, and against swappable batteries in motor vehicles, where they could potentially make all the difference in the world.
    - baumandm 5y ago
      Swappable batteries aren't viable without a new business model. If you buy an EV today, it comes with a battery with a ~10 year warranty, and replacing that battery after the warranty ends is a pretty expensive affair. Nobody with a new battery is going to want to swap it out for a old, potentially degraded battery. But everyone with an old battery would be happy to try to swap their way into a new battery. Instead, I think you'd need a model where the battery isn't included in the price of the car, and you have a monthly subscription to rent a battery from either the dealer or a third-party. That way you aren't attached to the specific battery you're using, and the subscription fees go towards replacing old batteries as needed. The subscription would either be a base fee + price per replacement, or a base fee for rental + unlimited replacements.
      - CamperBob2 5y ago
        Nobody with a new battery is going to want to swap it out for a old, potentially degraded battery. But everyone with an old battery would be happy to try to swap their way into a new battery. Great, this old schtick again. News flash: nobody cares whether or not they own their car battery. With modern BMS systems, you would basically pay by the coulomb. But yeah, I think this particular ship has sailed, at least for the near-term future. Huge missed opportunity. Refueling an EV should be as quick and easy as swapping out a BBQ propane cylinder -- which is also something you don't care if you own or not -- at your local convenience store.

Why not can you imagine having the freedom to change your car nearly instantly and go wherever you want. No range anxiety

by rdtwo 5y ago

Why not can you imagine having the freedom to change your car nearly instantly and go wherever you want. No range anxiety

loonster 5y ago

Imagine how cheap gas would be if no one wanted it.

fossuser 5y ago
I’d guess it’d be obscenely expensive without economies of scale based on current demand and distribution. As far as “no range anxiety” people in that world would just be making similar arguments, “what if there’s no nearby gas station”, “what if it’s out of gas”, “I can’t just plug-in anywhere” etc.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > I’d guess it’d be obscenely expensive without economies of scale based on current demand and distribution. Then swap out gasoline for diesel. If nothing else, I can get vegetable oil at the grocery store at a price that isn't too bad. > As far as “no range anxiety” people in that world would just be making similar arguments, “what if there’s no nearby gas station”, “what if it’s out of gas”, “I can’t just plug-in anywhere” etc. That's not how (plug-in, and surely these would be plug-in) hybrids work...
- madhadron 5y ago
  That argument about gas was a major argument against gasoline cars back in the day. It took major infrastructure investment to build out the gas network.
  - fossuser 5y ago
    At the time there was no good alternative with existing infrastructure in place. Today with EVs and modern battery tech that isn’t true.
- loonster 5y ago
  Fractional distillation. You are going to get what you are going to get. Unless you find suitable alternatives for all oil products, gasoline will still be produced in the same quantities. Somebody will find something to do with the unused byproduct gasoline. I consider filling up my car to be a noble use instead of just burning it.

CamperBob2 5y ago

In a sane world, it would take less time to recharge an EV, not more. Good industrial and government leadership, working together, would have given us a swappable battery standard by now.

bobsil1 5y ago
The new 800V EVs only take 15 minutes from ~20% to 80%.
- CamperBob2 5y ago
  Which is 10 minutes longer than it takes me to refuel my IC vehicles from 5% to 100%, and 14 minutes longer than it should take. It's funny how HN'ers will fight to the death arguing for swappable batteries in cell phones, where they offer vanishingly few benefits, and against swappable batteries in motor vehicles, where they could potentially make all the difference in the world.
  - baumandm 5y ago
    Swappable batteries aren't viable without a new business model. If you buy an EV today, it comes with a battery with a ~10 year warranty, and replacing that battery after the warranty ends is a pretty expensive affair. Nobody with a new battery is going to want to swap it out for a old, potentially degraded battery. But everyone with an old battery would be happy to try to swap their way into a new battery. Instead, I think you'd need a model where the battery isn't included in the price of the car, and you have a monthly subscription to rent a battery from either the dealer or a third-party. That way you aren't attached to the specific battery you're using, and the subscription fees go towards replacing old batteries as needed. The subscription would either be a base fee + price per replacement, or a base fee for rental + unlimited replacements.
    - CamperBob2 5y ago
      Nobody with a new battery is going to want to swap it out for a old, potentially degraded battery. But everyone with an old battery would be happy to try to swap their way into a new battery. Great, this old schtick again. News flash: nobody cares whether or not they own their car battery. With modern BMS systems, you would basically pay by the coulomb. But yeah, I think this particular ship has sailed, at least for the near-term future. Huge missed opportunity. Refueling an EV should be as quick and easy as swapping out a BBQ propane cylinder -- which is also something you don't care if you own or not -- at your local convenience store.