5 ms·

I think age plays a role here, I'm a white male in my 50s and certainly women of my generation faced enormous hurdles that men didn't. That's because the majori

by simonh 5y ago

I think age plays a role here, I'm a white male in my 50s and certainly women of my generation faced enormous hurdles that men didn't. That's because the majority of people in power while I was growing up were white men who grew up in the 1940s and 50s, and had moral compasses and gender expectations baked into them at that time. Time and again I witnessed girls in my school classes in the 70s and 80s treated disrespectfully and condescendingly by teachers so boys of my age were exposed to these attitudes and I'm sure some were influenced by them. I have two daughters and when they were about 9 and 10 my brother bought them a model combustion engine. When we told one of my uncles he snorted and said "Hasn't he noticed they're Girls!". That was about 8 years ago, and that uncle of mine has 3 daughters. Of course my kids loved the model and wouldn't let anyone else touch it, they spent hours working on it. I'm pretty confident the current climate is much, much more open to women choosing their own path but it's still not perfect. There are still a lot of men in positions of power or influence with attitudes they learned many decades ago. Actually a fair few women too, many older ladies have regrettably regressive attitudes. They're there in families and work places influencing expectations, promoting biased thinking and giving boy's toys to boys and girl's toys to girls.

raxxorrax 5y ago
You are basically a NIMBY on gender and other men should not get penalties because you have daughters and are protective of them. Women tend not to reach university in tech, so the blame would be on parents anyway. > but it's still not perfect What would "perfect" look like? I do think time will solve this if there are indeed that many women interested in tech. There is still a possibility that those women are exceptions though. And this "positive" discrimination sets everyone back. Don't penalize other men because you are unsure about educating your daughters. It is natural to be defensive here, but that is for you to deconstruct.
- simonh 5y ago
  I already described how male teachers treat girls condescendingly and how other family members can subvert their interests, as can their peers. There's a lot parents can do, but they can't be everywhere during their child's education and gate keep all their experiences. >What would "perfect" look like? The best we can hope for would probably be enough awareness of positive role models, and access to encouragement and opportunities, to effectively counteract the inevitable discouragements and adverse influences. Not perfect but it might have to do. I'm not at all for positive discrimination, I hope I didn't give that impression. I don't think it's necessary. I do believe white men still enjoy a lot of advantages, or at least face a lot fewer obstacles, than even white girls and that's based on personal observation and experience. I was replying to a comment that white girls do not have fewer privileges than white men, and I think that's thoroughly misconceived. It's better than it was, but misogynistic attitudes are still very much out there. - Wow, example that came up just today. My wife and I were discussing plans for a renovation to our house with an architect. They guy pretty much refused to look at my wife and addresses his answers to me every time, even when she was asking the questions he checked it with me before answering. It was weird.
  - username90 5y ago
    > I already described how male teachers treat girls condescendingly and how other family members can subvert their interests, as can their peers. There's a lot parents can do, but they can't be everywhere during their child's education and gate keep all their experiences. Being guided to a male or female path isn't a privilege though. Boys gets even more pushback than that if they try to enter female dominated fields. There is a male privilege in tech, sure, but this article is about the advertisement segment which is far from male dominated. So what we see here is a bunch of women pushing out men using their female privilege in that industry.
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    The most likely explanation is that he was reading the nonverbal communication and body language of you and your wife. Sales, even technical sales, is too cutthroat to afford to dismiss any decision maker in the room.

by simonh 5y ago

raxxorrax 5y ago

You are basically a NIMBY on gender and other men should not get penalties because you have daughters and are protective of them. Women tend not to reach university in tech, so the blame would be on parents anyway. > but it's still not perfect What would "perfect" look like? I do think time will solve this if there are indeed that many women interested in tech. There is still a possibility that those women are exceptions though. And this "positive" discrimination sets everyone back. Don't penalize other men because you are unsure about educating your daughters. It is natural to be defensive here, but that is for you to deconstruct.

simonh 5y ago
I already described how male teachers treat girls condescendingly and how other family members can subvert their interests, as can their peers. There's a lot parents can do, but they can't be everywhere during their child's education and gate keep all their experiences. >What would "perfect" look like? The best we can hope for would probably be enough awareness of positive role models, and access to encouragement and opportunities, to effectively counteract the inevitable discouragements and adverse influences. Not perfect but it might have to do. I'm not at all for positive discrimination, I hope I didn't give that impression. I don't think it's necessary. I do believe white men still enjoy a lot of advantages, or at least face a lot fewer obstacles, than even white girls and that's based on personal observation and experience. I was replying to a comment that white girls do not have fewer privileges than white men, and I think that's thoroughly misconceived. It's better than it was, but misogynistic attitudes are still very much out there. - Wow, example that came up just today. My wife and I were discussing plans for a renovation to our house with an architect. They guy pretty much refused to look at my wife and addresses his answers to me every time, even when she was asking the questions he checked it with me before answering. It was weird.
- username90 5y ago
  > I already described how male teachers treat girls condescendingly and how other family members can subvert their interests, as can their peers. There's a lot parents can do, but they can't be everywhere during their child's education and gate keep all their experiences. Being guided to a male or female path isn't a privilege though. Boys gets even more pushback than that if they try to enter female dominated fields. There is a male privilege in tech, sure, but this article is about the advertisement segment which is far from male dominated. So what we see here is a bunch of women pushing out men using their female privilege in that industry.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  The most likely explanation is that he was reading the nonverbal communication and body language of you and your wife. Sales, even technical sales, is too cutthroat to afford to dismiss any decision maker in the room.