5 ms·

Just like many other viral and bacterial infections, then. No surprise here.

by bserge 5y ago

pjc50 5y ago
That's rather a surprise to me, given the lack of recognition of post-viral fatigue!
- trhway 5y ago
  there are studies connecting chronic fatigue syndrome to increased B-cells numbers (like it happens after viral infections like flu for example, and i'd guess after covid too) https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/are-b-cells-to-blame-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/are-b-cells-to-blame...
VortexDream 5y ago
I'm not aware of similarities with other infections. Care to cite sources?
- orwin 5y ago
  (Not OP) Viral infection can have this effect. The flu for sure, but also the varicella virus (i think this is the translation?) do too. West Nile virus also? Its definitly not the majority of viruses, and i'm not sure bacterial (benefit of the doubt here). Don't tell me you never exagerate a little :P
  - _moof 5y ago
    > varicella virus (i think this is the translation?) chickenpox. :)
- neilwilson 5y ago
  Influenza can trigger numerous issues. My mother ended up on anti-seizure tablets after the last flu outbreak having spent five days in intensive care. The flu brought on a fit and hypo-natremia. It took months before she could walk properly again. Our success against infectious diseases has left a generation or two with insufficient fear of them. I’ve seen people catch a bad cold on Wednesday and be dead from pneumonia on Sunday. The impact from Covid isn’t new. It’s just a rediscovery of why we spent the twentieth century on an all out war against infectious diseases and septicaemia.
  - VortexDream 5y ago
    Maybe. However, the rates at which I'm seeing long Covid seem entirely novel. Something like 30% of all cases in a recent study show signs of it, including mild cases. I admit there are overlaps in fatigue syndrome (and should've phrased my original comment differently), but AFAIK we've usually only seen that in severe infections with other diseases while we're seeing abnormally high rates of (to varying degrees) cognitive impairment even in mild or asymptomatic Covid infections.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Many infections (viral or bacterial) can cause long term inflammation, and inflammation can have such effects. Now what would really need to be measured if the degree of change is really different with COVID vs other infections.
- guruz 5y ago
  Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral_and_other_infections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral...
orwin 5y ago
You mean some, it is not the majority. And often viral, not bacterial. The flu have this effect for sure. The issue is that those cognitive disfunctions hit young people who were not hospitalized, or hospitalized only for safety (monitoring them with oxy at the ready). I know of one professionnal classical dancer, 26, who cannot coordinate following Covid, and was luckily already near the end of her career. But still, for some trade, this might be an issue, especially if Covid become as endemic as the flu
- strangemonad 5y ago
  In what scenario does it bot become endemic?
  - unlikelymordant 5y ago
    If everyone develops immunity, either by vaccine or infection, and it dies out on its own i assume would be the only way
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    Full vaccination. A few countries (developed countries with high levels of vaccine acceptance) will be able to vaccinate virtually everyone over 16 within the next month or so, maybe everyone over 12 (though there is likely to be way more hesitancy there almost everywhere). At that point, it's likely to be suppressed in those countries, and that may reduce hesitancy elsewhere, and so on. A number of diseases that were once globally endemic are now regionally endemic (eg polio, two countries), or eradicated (smallpox). Generally due to vaccination.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  > The flu have this effect for sure. Any references or background to this? It's weird because there are major media campaigns to encourage people to have a flu jab (UK) and "flu causes [irreversible] cognitive dysfunction" would be a major 'seller'. I can also see that governments could have been reluctant to spread such information - if it's true - as it would change attitudes to schooling; schools being known to be a major vector for spreading flu.

Just like many other viral and bacterial infections, then. No surprise here.

by bserge 5y ago

Just like many other viral and bacterial infections, then. No surprise here.

pjc50 5y ago

That's rather a surprise to me, given the lack of recognition of post-viral fatigue!

trhway 5y ago
there are studies connecting chronic fatigue syndrome to increased B-cells numbers (like it happens after viral infections like flu for example, and i'd guess after covid too) https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/are-b-cells-to-blame-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/are-b-cells-to-blame...

VortexDream 5y ago

I'm not aware of similarities with other infections. Care to cite sources?

orwin 5y ago
(Not OP) Viral infection can have this effect. The flu for sure, but also the varicella virus (i think this is the translation?) do too. West Nile virus also? Its definitly not the majority of viruses, and i'm not sure bacterial (benefit of the doubt here). Don't tell me you never exagerate a little :P
- _moof 5y ago
  > varicella virus (i think this is the translation?) chickenpox. :)
neilwilson 5y ago
Influenza can trigger numerous issues. My mother ended up on anti-seizure tablets after the last flu outbreak having spent five days in intensive care. The flu brought on a fit and hypo-natremia. It took months before she could walk properly again. Our success against infectious diseases has left a generation or two with insufficient fear of them. I’ve seen people catch a bad cold on Wednesday and be dead from pneumonia on Sunday. The impact from Covid isn’t new. It’s just a rediscovery of why we spent the twentieth century on an all out war against infectious diseases and septicaemia.
- VortexDream 5y ago
  Maybe. However, the rates at which I'm seeing long Covid seem entirely novel. Something like 30% of all cases in a recent study show signs of it, including mild cases. I admit there are overlaps in fatigue syndrome (and should've phrased my original comment differently), but AFAIK we've usually only seen that in severe infections with other diseases while we're seeing abnormally high rates of (to varying degrees) cognitive impairment even in mild or asymptomatic Covid infections.
ekianjo 5y ago
Many infections (viral or bacterial) can cause long term inflammation, and inflammation can have such effects. Now what would really need to be measured if the degree of change is really different with COVID vs other infections.
guruz 5y ago
Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral_and_other_infections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral...

orwin 5y ago

You mean some, it is not the majority. And often viral, not bacterial. The flu have this effect for sure. The issue is that those cognitive disfunctions hit young people who were not hospitalized, or hospitalized only for safety (monitoring them with oxy at the ready). I know of one professionnal classical dancer, 26, who cannot coordinate following Covid, and was luckily already near the end of her career. But still, for some trade, this might be an issue, especially if Covid become as endemic as the flu

strangemonad 5y ago
In what scenario does it bot become endemic?
- unlikelymordant 5y ago
  If everyone develops immunity, either by vaccine or infection, and it dies out on its own i assume would be the only way
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Full vaccination. A few countries (developed countries with high levels of vaccine acceptance) will be able to vaccinate virtually everyone over 16 within the next month or so, maybe everyone over 12 (though there is likely to be way more hesitancy there almost everywhere). At that point, it's likely to be suppressed in those countries, and that may reduce hesitancy elsewhere, and so on. A number of diseases that were once globally endemic are now regionally endemic (eg polio, two countries), or eradicated (smallpox). Generally due to vaccination.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
> The flu have this effect for sure. Any references or background to this? It's weird because there are major media campaigns to encourage people to have a flu jab (UK) and "flu causes [irreversible] cognitive dysfunction" would be a major 'seller'. I can also see that governments could have been reluctant to spread such information - if it's true - as it would change attitudes to schooling; schools being known to be a major vector for spreading flu.