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iDOS 2 will be gone soon
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- withinboredom 5y agoYet another sad story of Apple's incompetence at running an app store.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoIt's not incompetence if it's actually their rule. They are competently enforcing an arguably stupid rule.
- withinboredom 5y agoSure, if this was the first submission of the app, or the second. It isn't. It's had this feature and the intro explaining that it broke the rules from the get-go. But now, Apple suddenly backtracks it's decision to allow it AFTER the dev has already made sales based on the feature. Apple should (in theory) give refunds for this, or make the developer whole somehow, because the dev's reputation is screwed.
- shkkmo 5y agoNo, they are incompetently enforcing the rules because the "not allowed" functionality was added a while ago and explicitly mentioned to the reviewers. The update review that triggered the removal was just bug fixes.
- tenebrisalietum 5y ago643 billion dollars worth of incompetence over the year 2020. <https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/apple-developers-grow-app-store-ecosystem-billings-and-sales-by-24-percent-in-2020/#:~:text=Apple%20today%20announced%20that%20the,year%2Dover%2Dyear%20increase. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/06/apple-developers-grow...>
- jhgb 5y agoHow large is the Big Mac market? Surely larger than Kobe beef market, right?
- heavyset_go 5y agoApple and Google have consistently shown that they are poor stewards of the mobile app distribution market, having kept an iron grip on the market for over a decade now. Consumers would benefit from real competition and disruption in this space, as competition increases efficiency and lowers costs.
- rStar 5y agono soup(general computation) for you!
- AceJohnny2 5y agoRef (2012): https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
- teddyh 5y agoSee also: The Digital Imprimatur, https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/
- xyzzy21 5y agoSeems like if you filled out the entitlements properly it should be allowed - informed consent. But that's messed up if you did that.
- ksec 5y agoOk, so if the customer bought it before they took it down. I could use it for as long as I could?
- nanoscopic 5y agoI'd like to know this as well. My guess is that you may have to install it on your device before it gets dropped from the Apple store. Definitely have a cloud backup of your device enabled in case you need to ever reset your device so that you don't lose the app. If you want to install it on another device things become more complex...
- lixtra 5y agoYes, as long as you don’t upgrade your phone. At some point an OS upgrade will break the app.
- yoavm 5y agoHonest question - what do iOS users do in such situations? I'm using Android and we can always install things from outside the store, or even from alternative stores (eg. F-Droid). Is there any similar solution? If the app is open-source, can you at least build it yourself and sideload it as if you are the developer and you're testing your app? What solutions are there?
- Joeri 5y agoiOS users have mostly chosen to accept the walled garden. If they hadn’t, they would be android users.
- paulryanrogers 5y agoThis assumes that users understand the implications of the garden they're buying into. For many there may be a strong bandwagon effect, and they don't fully grasp what they are losing.
- withinboredom 5y agoI have an iPhone simply to facetime with my parents, who refuse to talk to anyone with a green bubble. You can't make this up. If I could use iMessage on any other device, I wouldn't have an iPhone. Apple knows this, and it probably scares the shit out of them.
- FabHK 5y agoI think I largely understand the implications of the garden I chose, and I doubt there will be much anguish among my less technical family/friends about their loss when they fully grasp that they will never be able to run a DOS emulator on their iPhones.
- paulryanrogers 5y agoThe only reason we're talking about something as obscure as DOS is because it wasn't threatening. Now that people have raised awareness of the inconstency they're blocking it, like many other general purpose emulators.
- opheliate 5y agoWhen I was younger, my family couldn’t afford a laptop, but I have the distinct memory of wanting to learn to code on the iPads at my school, and being unable to find any app which would let me just write and execute programs. Looking around the App Store now, there do seem to be a couple of apps which would allow this, but it’s still really disappointing to see this kind of removal. The majority of kids these days will likely use a phone lots more than they use a laptop. For those who want to learn to code, why doesn’t Apple make it easier?
- jeroenhd 5y agoBecause if the iPad can be used as a computer, there's very little reason to buy a Macbook. It makes no financial sense. It'd also allow apps to dynamically load external software, which could be used as a bypass for Apple's stringent app store requirements.
- devwastaken 5y agoIf macbooks were gone tomorrow, the ipad would not replace it. Very different use cases. Sure, if you took an ipad, put OSX on it, and glued it to the hinges of a macbook as the screen - then maybe it'd be very similiar. Not great performance or battery life, but similiar. But in no way am I getting work done on an ipad touchscreen with a little flimsy foldable keyboard and kickstand.
- handrous 5y agoAs an iOS (and Android) user and developer since about the iPad2, iPads interest me less the more iOS shifts toward being a general-purpose OS. I wouldn't buy one with macOS or equivalent on it, even if it'd been modified to work well on touch screens. At that point I'd probably get the cheapest large Android tablet I could find as a PDF reader, and just... not do the other stuff I do with iPads at all, I guess.
- foxpurple 5y agoThis is outdated info. The latest iPad Pro has the M1 chip, exactly the same as the MacBook. And it comes in 8/16gb ram. The magic keyboard accessory apple sells for the iPad also turns it in to the same form factor as a laptop. You very realistically could replace a MacBook with an iPad Pro and magic keyboard if apple let people run macOS on it.
- shkkmo 5y agoApple can't enforce such basic App Store rules consistently, even when violations are deliberately and clearly mentioned in the submission... and we are supposed to believe that Apple can't allow other stores on the decice because THAT would compromise security...
- spicybright 5y agoAgain? Any web browser based app runs executable code ffs.
- dabitude 5y agoYou are not allowed to submit a web browser to the app store with your own javascript interpreter.
- blahyawnblah 5y agoThere's no firefox on iOS?
- kjaleshire 5y agoFirefox (and every other 3rd party browser) internally uses the same web rendering engine as Safari. Rolling your own renderer + JS engine is not allowed.
- wvenable 5y agoNo. But there is a "Firefox" shell around WKWebView.
- theshadowknows 5y agoApple let’s you take the naked core of safari, stripped of chrome, and slap a skin on top.
- jdavis703 5y agoAll iOS web browsers use a web view backed by Safari.
- benmmurphy 5y agoThese rules are applied selectively. I know very popular apps that are loading interpreted code over https and executing it. Also, these same apps are exploiting a flaw in iOS in order to track users across apps and using the interpreted code to hide this.
- withinboredom 5y agoTechnically, this rule prevents the use of jsonp (remember that?)
- kbenson 5y agoNot if it's run through a system webview (Safari) though, right? They only want interpreted code run through a VM they control so they can effectively restrict what it can do on the OS.
- user-the-name 5y agoThose apps are definitely in direct violation of app store rules, and would be removed if they were detected. If they have not been removed, it is because they were successful in hiding their rule breaking.
- saagarjha 5y agoSigh, this is exactly the rule Apple once falsely rejected iSH for. It’s disappointing to see that they’re still applying their convoluted rationale to take down legitimate apps based on the actions their users take inside the app. As I wrote earlier: > For example, iSH was once rejected with the rationale that “During review, your app installed or launched executable code, which is not permitted on the App Store.” The template itself clearly outlines the case it is meant to apply—an app that is installing code by itself, to bypass review—but in the case of iSH the reviewer chose to install code and then complained that the app did what they told it to do. I can see the arguments from https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/11/08/fixing-section-2-5-2/ https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/11/08/fixing-section-2-5-2/ applying here.
- heavyset_go 5y agoThis is a good example of how innovation, competition and small businesses are being stifled by the anticompetitive behavior of the mobile app distribution cartel. Consider contacting your state's Attorney General office, and the US Attorney General office. Many states' AG offices have antitrust divisions[1]. The US Dept. of Justice also has an Antitrust Division[2], along with a page that details how and why[3] to get in touch with them: > Information from the public is vital to the work of the Antitrust Division. Your e-mails, letters, and phone calls could be our first alert to a possible violation of antitrust laws and may provide the initial evidence needed to begin an investigation. The FTC has the Bureau of Competition[4], as well. [1] https://www.naag.org/issues/antitrust/ https://www.naag.org/issues/antitrust/ [2] https://www.justice.gov/atr https://www.justice.gov/atr [3] https://www.justice.gov/atr/report-violations https://www.justice.gov/atr/report-violations [4] https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competition/about-bureau-competition https://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/bureaus-offices/bureau-competi...
- o8r3oFTZPE 5y ago"innovation, competition and small business" Not to mention the effect on intellectually curious users (and learning). These computers bundled with phones are crippled, tinker-proof, and there is no way to extend or improve them after purchase except as according to the seller's business model. Un-tethering from the seller and opting not to use their servers is effectively discouraged or prevented. "Protecting you" is a suspect justification for all the hoops one must jump through to "accept the risk". There is no anticipation of user autonomy. The world according to the seller is divided into "developers" and "users". Anyone in both categories is intended to pay Apple twice. First for the hardware, then again for the "developer certificate" and a percentage of any licensing revenue. Maybe that is what the market is demanding. Or maybe the market does not have full information and thus does not understand the full spectrum of possible choices. As long as the cartel persists we will never know.
- cgb223 5y agoAnyone know who the point of contact for this is in the state of California? Name email and phone number would be great for us to see and share
- api 5y agoiOS devices are "consoles," not computers.
- coopreme 5y agoFastCompany’s Harry McCracken and How to Geek worked together to publish an article on how to run windows 3.1 using iDOS 2 (and all your old games) on 12 July [0]. It his Mac news sites the same day. TWiT talked about running Win 3.1 and TRS-80 on iPad on 18 July [1]. The popularity of these articles and podcast may have shined a light on this bit of hackery. It sucks it is getting booted, but it’s largely interesting because it allowed you to do the thing Apple doesn’t want you to do. [0] https://www.howtogeek.com/739100/how-to-install-windows-31-on-an-ipad/ https://www.howtogeek.com/739100/how-to-install-windows-31-o... [1] https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech/episodes/832 https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech/episodes/832
- kolyaio 5y agoThese stupid limitation by Apple makes me really hope that there will be real competition in the tablet space. Android tablets basically failed because most apps are just bit phone apps. Windows tablet aren’t that successful either. The thing is iPads offer good experience as a tablet but when you want from it a bit more Apple doesn’t allow it because of their Apps Store policies. Personally I think iPad could be a great device for coding on the go. But the fact that we can’t install anything outside of apple’s control blocks this option. RDP or SSH is nice but it relies on internet connection. I’d like to use the native power of the device. With M1 there’s no reason it wouldn’t be able to do so. Their arguments about security to sounds more like bunch of excuses.
- samlevine 5y agoMicrosoft doesn't break down sales figures, but overall their Surface business is a couple billion a year. Surface Pros are about as good as you can get right now for a general purpose computer that is also a tablet and also are not incredibly expensive.
- CiceroCiceronis 5y agoAgreed, Apple lost me (prior Air user) as a customer to the Surface, just because the value proposition of a touchscreen tablet computer - that’s actually a real computer - was so compelling.
- m4rtink 5y agoGalaxy Tab devices work fine IMHO - I have a Galaxy Tab S6 and use it for many thing, including quite involved digital drawing with the desktop level Clip Studio Paint. It has a very good keyboard cover and can be easily connected to a full screen and keyboard/mouse with a HDMI dongle, which makes it switch to the desktop style DEX interface. You can also combine this with the Wacom One drawing tablet and get a really nice and flexible mobile drawing workstation. Also in the future Steam Deck might actually fit the category! Like if you don't mind the extra knobs and controls it's basically a fully supported Linux tablet! :)
- badkitty99 5y agoMan this is sad
- swiley 5y agoiOS is such a shit platform I'm surprised anyone tolerates it.
- vzaliva 5y agoPeople using iPhones are consenting to Apple deciding what programs they are allowed to run. It may be OK for some people, but not for me. I feel the MacOS is moving int the same direction.
- musicale 5y agoI bought the original iDOS, but it no longer runs and you have to buy iDOS 2. I think I'll stick with running DOSBox in a browser.
- izabera 5y agoTheir handling of this situation was not great, and I'm sorry for the author, but I was pleasantly surprised to see them explicitly point out exactly which rules where violated. What a stark contrast with the usual HN posts about apps being removed from the Play Store for vague reasons with little to no explanation. Google has a lot to learn.
- galgalesh 5y agoI agree with you. The clarity in their response is commendable, even though I disagree with the policy itself.