8 ms·

Perhaps the industry is not sustainable then.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I agree. It seems that most people's "solutions" to this "problem" are various ways to make people's live more miserable and keep them desperate enough to work shit jobs for low pay. I guess a lot of people are just fine with having a slave class as long as it means they don't have to be inconvenienced in any way. If this industry literally cannot afford to pay people a living wage, if no one wants to work for them and they can't remain profitable by making working conditions better, then they just shouldn't even exist.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  Most eye opening part of the pandemic was the fact that in the US the majority of people dubbed as essential and forced to work were also the people paid the least. Grocery workers standing there with 2 masks on making minimum wage while the rest of us waltz in take what we need and return to the relative safety of our remote work. Then making fast food workers essential instead of paying them unemployment was just taking things to another level of pettiness.
rusk 5y ago
Maybe a cut in VAT would help? Although that probably doesn’t help in the states …
- Hjfrf 5y ago
  If you're taking about the UK, the obvious starting point would be ending subsidies for buy-to-let. In a pandemic with vast spending deficits, the government is giving out mortgage holidays, 95% mortgage scheme, stamp duty holiday etc.
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    I think some of this might be down to a lot of pensions being invested in property. It feels a little bit like the dam is bursting in several places at once; I'm not hopeful.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  The history of tax cuts in order to help out workers is .. not great.
darth_avocado 5y ago
It used to be. When ordering food in a restaurant was a special thing for special occasions. It was expensive to eat out and the workers were compensated for it. Then we got to a place where food was supposed fast, cheap and accessible to everyone at any time. And suddenly you couldn't charge a lot for your food and worker wages stagnated. Sure more people work in the restaurant industry than they ever did before, but that's what happens. Quantity over quality in almost any service industry always means abundance of the service at the expense of the workers. Take a look at the rideshare business.
- danaris 5y ago
  I mean...to what extent does this correlate with the nationwide stagnation of real wages? If your average American working a full-time job can't afford to eat out at high enough prices to keep restaurants afloat while paying decent wages, that sounds like a systemic problem—and we already know that one of those exists here.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    I guess it depends how often you expect to eat out. If it’s once a month, I think most can afford more expensive restaurants
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. It is really hard to enjoy a meal when you are thinking "I could have done this better myself at less cost". Chains and fast food just don't provide the quality I demand for the most part, and even the independents are hit and miss.
      - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
        In this case you're trading out your effort for the cash. I'm happy to trade my money, which I earn much more efficiently at my job than I can save by cooking, for the food so I don't have to put in effort and can enjoy my evening out with friends. I'm also more than happy to pay a couple of dollar premium to eat fast food than try to recreate it on my own while I'm running to work.
imtringued 5y ago
The modern service job isn't meant to be sustainable in the first place. It's entirely based around the idea of having surplus labor using it inefficiently. Any sane economist that has to solve for the constraint "everyone has to provide for themselves" aka the mythical republican "responsibility" would first start by creating enough jobs to reach full employment. When you leave everything up to responsibility you also have the duty to provide everyone with the ability to live up to their responsibility. Society as a whole doesn't benefit from exploitation or unsustainable businesses.

I agree. It seems that most people's "solutions" to this "problem" are various ways to make people's live more miserable and keep them desperate enough to work shit jobs for low pay. I guess a lot of people are just fine with having a slave class as long as it means they don't have to be inconvenienced in any way. If this industry literally cannot afford to pay people a living wage, if no one wants to work for them and they can't remain profitable by making working conditions better, then they just shouldn't even exist.

wonderwonder 5y ago
Most eye opening part of the pandemic was the fact that in the US the majority of people dubbed as essential and forced to work were also the people paid the least. Grocery workers standing there with 2 masks on making minimum wage while the rest of us waltz in take what we need and return to the relative safety of our remote work. Then making fast food workers essential instead of paying them unemployment was just taking things to another level of pettiness.

rusk 5y ago

Maybe a cut in VAT would help? Although that probably doesn’t help in the states …

Hjfrf 5y ago
If you're taking about the UK, the obvious starting point would be ending subsidies for buy-to-let. In a pandemic with vast spending deficits, the government is giving out mortgage holidays, 95% mortgage scheme, stamp duty holiday etc.
- bencollier49 5y ago
  I think some of this might be down to a lot of pensions being invested in property. It feels a little bit like the dam is bursting in several places at once; I'm not hopeful.
ashtonkem 5y ago
The history of tax cuts in order to help out workers is .. not great.

darth_avocado 5y ago

It used to be. When ordering food in a restaurant was a special thing for special occasions. It was expensive to eat out and the workers were compensated for it. Then we got to a place where food was supposed fast, cheap and accessible to everyone at any time. And suddenly you couldn't charge a lot for your food and worker wages stagnated. Sure more people work in the restaurant industry than they ever did before, but that's what happens. Quantity over quality in almost any service industry always means abundance of the service at the expense of the workers. Take a look at the rideshare business.

danaris 5y ago
I mean...to what extent does this correlate with the nationwide stagnation of real wages? If your average American working a full-time job can't afford to eat out at high enough prices to keep restaurants afloat while paying decent wages, that sounds like a systemic problem—and we already know that one of those exists here.
- namdnay 5y ago
  I guess it depends how often you expect to eat out. If it’s once a month, I think most can afford more expensive restaurants
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. It is really hard to enjoy a meal when you are thinking "I could have done this better myself at less cost". Chains and fast food just don't provide the quality I demand for the most part, and even the independents are hit and miss.
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      In this case you're trading out your effort for the cash. I'm happy to trade my money, which I earn much more efficiently at my job than I can save by cooking, for the food so I don't have to put in effort and can enjoy my evening out with friends. I'm also more than happy to pay a couple of dollar premium to eat fast food than try to recreate it on my own while I'm running to work.

imtringued 5y ago

The modern service job isn't meant to be sustainable in the first place. It's entirely based around the idea of having surplus labor using it inefficiently. Any sane economist that has to solve for the constraint "everyone has to provide for themselves" aka the mythical republican "responsibility" would first start by creating enough jobs to reach full employment. When you leave everything up to responsibility you also have the duty to provide everyone with the ability to live up to their responsibility. Society as a whole doesn't benefit from exploitation or unsustainable businesses.