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Gotta admit, I never saw that coming. I thought SteamOS was dead after the failure of Steam Machines and Valve was only continuing with their Linux efforts beca

Gotta admit, I never saw that coming. I thought SteamOS was dead after the failure of Steam Machines and Valve was only continuing with their Linux efforts because it's still a useful hedge against Microsoft locking everyone in the App Store. I totally did not expect them to copy the Switch use-case with it. I'm anxious to see how this turns out. Valve's history with hardware is not so great, so it could go nowhere like Steam Machines, Steam Link, and the Steam Controller did. On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. If it lands somewhere in the middle it will at least be yet another boon for Linux gaming brought to you by Valve as more developers will port or ensure compatibility with Proton.

superkuh 5y ago
I love Valve but it seems like they create these hardware projects to occasionally remind platform owners like microsoft/playstation/nintendo that they can't completely abuse their users and software devs (Win10 store lock-in, etc) and retain all of them. Valve just wants to protect steam and credible hardware platform competition is how they do it. I don't think they have any real plans to produce and support hardware long term.
- belltaco 5y ago
  And yet it looks like you cannot use the Steam Deck without logging into a Steam account. Looks like we are trading in one lock-in for another.
  - kaetemi 5y ago
    You can install any OS on it, it's just a PC.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Seems like you can access the KDE desktop, so I think using the Steam account isn't mandatory. Not 100% sure though. Previous Steam machines allowed full control, even changing the OS.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    Apples to oranges. Valve is concerned about hardware lock-in, not software lock-in. I think users care more about being able to play their games on any hardware platform they own than about which software platform hosts their games. Also, it seems like Steam Deck is just running a customized Linux distro, so it isn't really a lock-in. If Epic Games or Ubisoft decides to make their game stores work on Linux, I bet they would run on Steam Deck too. If that's the case, then how is it Valve's fault that other vendors/game stores aren't bothering to make their software platforms/games work on Linux? Valve put in the work, and they want to reap the fruits of it, without even trying to lock-in their device from using any other competitors' software (as far as I am aware). Competitors just gotta put in the work to make their platforms work on Linux.
    - ElFitz 5y ago
      > Apples to oranges Apple to Valve?
    - kbenson 5y ago
      > If Epic Games or Ubisoft decides to make their game stores work on Linux, I bet they would run on Steam Deck too. They can, because the FAQ says it's just a PC running Arch linux and you can install Windows on it if you want, which means you can do whatever you want. Maybe it can run on the same OS (probably, if it's just Linux, but we'll see how customized it is), or at a minimum you could just install something else.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    They state you can install a different OS. That is just if you want the default system. There was a video playing CK3 that shows KDE running so it's not like you can't install windows or a different distro.
    - yellowapple 5y ago
      KDE is part of the stock software, apparently. Similar to existing versions of SteamOS in that regard, except with Arch + KDE instead of Debian + GNOME.
  - lawl 5y ago
    > And yet it looks like you cannot use the Steam Deck without logging into a Steam account. Looks like we are trading in one lock-in for another. valve so far has been miles better than any other big DRM platform. i would almost bet valve will let you have root on these and do whatever you want with the hardware without any jailbreaks. It may not be supported, but I really cannot imagine them locking this down. That would be very much unlike valve. iirc steam machines back in the day did also let you go into a bash shell? full disclosure: i may contain traces of a valve fanboy.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      > You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever. https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware
    - l-albertovich 5y ago
      I'd like to think they'll at least make it easy to root or otherwise repurpose these because I like them and would likely get one, however, in the software part of the specs they state that they have been in the works with game studios to basically have them implement their anti-cheat systems in their platform so I suspect said studios would be against that. This is pure speculation on my side and I really hope I'm dead wrong but that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think about it (also, their own DRM right?). Edit : the reply bellow seems to prove me wrong =)
      - techrat 5y ago
        Why speculate when you can read directly from the product page yourself? >You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever. and >The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. That said, Steam Deck is a PC so you can install third party software and operating systems.
    - 5y ago
  - danso 5y ago
    The ign preview suggests otherwise: https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-hands-on-impressions-details-valve-handheld-gaming-pc https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-hands-on-impressions... > This flexibility means you can do pretty much anything on the Steam Deck that you can do with a regular PC. Connect a mouse and keyboard? Yep. Alt-Tab out of your games to a browser or video? Sure. Load third-party programs or even other game stores like Origin, uPlay, or Epic Games Store? No problem. You could even wipe Steam OS entirely and install a fresh version of Windows if you want – but the default Steam OS is smooth and efficient at getting you into your games, so I imagine most people won’t want or need to go that far. The point is, you can if you’d like to.
    - NikolaNovak 5y ago
      I wonder if pure cloud service like GeForce Now can then be used, to benefit from portable hardware but have semblance of battery life, and avoid a likely jetengine cooling fan spin up...
      - captn3m0 5y ago
        Assuming that Valve does a decent job with integrating the inputs, and they show up correctly with the HTML5 GamePad APIs, it ought to just work.
  - timdorr 5y ago
    You don't need a Steam account if you're not using the default Steam Deck install. Wipe it and install TempleOS. > Do I need a Steam account to use Steam Deck? > The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. That said, Steam Deck is a PC so you can install third party software and operating systems. https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck
    - blooalien 5y ago
      > The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. I imagine that would be because the "default Steam Deck experience" probably defaults to booting into Steam Big Picture mode, just like SteamOS does by default.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    On the landing page they say "You can connect to peripherals, throw the picture onto a big screen, and do all the other PC things you'd expect." On the hardware page they show it docked and running a normal desktop interface and say "Use your Deck as a PC. Because it is one" and "You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever." On the spec page, it says the OS is SteamOS 3.0 (Arch-based) and Desktop is KDE Plasma. I guess I'm just not understanding where you'd even get the impression that it would be locked into a Steam account.
  - mcdevilkiller 5y ago
    Wrong, you can install whatever OS you want, the developers even said so. You have a lot of freedom.
  - yellowapple 5y ago
    The FAQs and such make it clear that it's basically an ordinary PC in a handheld form factor; if you don't want to log into a Steam account, then any ol' Linux distro or even Windows should run on it just fine (though whether the handheld controls play nicely is something I'd be curious about).
  - mastazi 5y ago
    They say in their partner website that it's a PC, and that you can even wipe out Steam OS and install another OS if you want. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq
- CivBase 5y ago
  > I don't think they have any real plans to produce and support hardware long term. With Valve's track record, I absolutely believe they have limited plans for production in the long term. But their long-term hardware support is impeccable. I have several discontinued pieces of hardware from Valve (the Steam Link and Steam Controller), both of which are still used and work as well as they day I bought them - better even, thanks to continued software updates.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    The Steam Link, released in 2015 and discontinued in 2018, is still getting firmware updates to this day. Valve's long-term support of the hardware they do release really is impeccable.
- minsc__and__boo 5y ago
  Seems like the Google Fiber strategy - start deploying key products/services to influence the big players in the market to finally innovate or at least play nice for consumers.
  - AceJohnny2 5y ago
    Sadly, I'm not convinced that strategy has any long term effect. I'm still bitter about how bad & expensive Internet access is in the Silicon Valley
    - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
      I think that says more about Silicon Valley municipal priorities than anything else. Besides, when it comes to infrastructure and consumer habits, influencing any change for the better is still better than none at all.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      Afintiy: From $29.99/month for for 10 mbps. AT&T: From $40.00/mo for 45 mbps What are you paying?
      - solumos 5y ago
        Isn't Fiber more than 20x that speed for less than 2x the price in Austin, TX?
      - rewq4321 5y ago
        Honest question (I may have misunderstood): Do you mean to imply that those are good prices? For reference, I'm paying about $40 for 1000 mbps (I'm not in the US). Can go to 10gbps for about double that price (IIRC), but I think the bottleneck becomes server bandwidth so it wouldn't speed me up for most services.
        zeusk 5y ago
        I pay $50 for symmetric gigabit in Redmond, WA. Not everywhere in US has crappy internet but the most populous places are entrenched.
- MikusR 5y ago
  What windows store lock-in?
  - Nullabillity 5y ago
    MS has tried to push locked versions of Windows several times over the years, starting with Windows RT up until S Mode (which is still a thing).
  - kmeisthax 5y ago
    This is way back about a decade ago, when Valve was very Windows-centric and barely even had macOS ports of Steam running. Windows 8 was announced with an entirely new application type, APIs, and distribution model intended to support tablets. Existing applications were shoved in the Desktop penalty box, while new applications had to be fullscreen or side-by-side, like a tablet. Furthermore, Windows on ARM was announced, with the Desktop penalty box further restricted to only Windows apps (though you could jailbreak it). If you wanted your app to work as a tablet app, you had to rewrite it for XAML and distribute it through the Microsoft Store, with similar technical restrictions to that of Apple's. The very clear message from Microsoft was that the future of Windows was in fullscreen tablet apps and that the desktop - as well as third-party app stores - was going away. Valve would proceed to launch a Linux version of Steam a few months before Windows 8 RTM'd, their own Linux distro a year later, and consolized PC hardware another year after that. Basically, the whole company made a very clear pivot away from game development (which they still haven't fully gone back to) to ensure Steam had a lifeboat if Windows 9 were to drop the Desktop or enforce app lockouts on it. Of course, what actually happened is that Windows 8 became the laughing stock of the entire PC industry. Microsoft was trying, like, five developer transitions at once and nobody was interested. (Not even Apple can do that, and they actually did try. Ask me about Rhapsody sometime.) So the end result is that app developers never wrote anything to the new native XAML APIs, users just used the Desktop app, and nobody had any interest in Windows on ARM tablets. That's why you don't remember the Windows Store lock-in; in Windows 10, Microsoft got rid of it.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      No it didn't, in fact the new revamped store also includes Win32. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/06/24/building-a-new-open-microsoft-store-on-windows-11/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/06/24/build...
- ineedasername 5y ago
  A reminder that if Microsoft does continue along that path, Valve is happy to come along and gobble up significant portions of their market share. It's a win-win for Valve: either MS keeps their platform out of a walled garden, allowing Steam to continue it's current path, or Valve eats their lunch while making Linux in general a more mainstream option.
- whywhywhywhy 5y ago
  End of the day Valve will never work seriously on hardware at a level will allow them to compete. Hardware is extremely difficult and extremely expensive. High effort and almost always low to no reward unless you manage to create a breakout device. Valve already has the business that most people build the hardware for in the first place. The reason Microsoft makes Xbox is to get a cut of game sales and sell a subscription. Valve already gets a cut of almost all PC sales so really trying to build hardware looks bad on almost every conceivable company chart within Valve. Yet they keep doing it every 5 years ago due to presumably due to their weird management.
  - linuxftw 5y ago
    They're not building traditional hardware. This is off the shelf components assembled in a particular manner, most likely by a 3rd party. IMO, this is a great move. They're building a cheap device that plays AAA games in a cool Switch-like form factor. I think targeting teenagers and young adults. I think the industry is changing how they do business, a mainstream Linux/AMD device is leading the way.
    - whywhywhywhy 5y ago
      > They're not building traditional hardware. This is off the shelf components assembled in a particular manner I can tell you from personal experience this isn't easy at all and is just as difficult as any other hardware project, even if you're not literally building new processors or hardware firmwares it's still a huge mission getting something like that to market let alone making it profitable. I work on a company that has shipped laptops where we designed all the casing with off the shelf processor/storage/etc, so have worked on what you're describing here.
      - linuxftw 5y ago
        Laptops are completely commoditized, of course you would struggle with profitability there. For a company the size of Valve, building these devices probably carries very little risk. The biggest risk is the software, which they were going to tackle anyway.
- jhanschoo 5y ago
  I think it's reasonable to think Valve is more committed with this. Valve now faces more competitors in game distribution than ever and it's a good way to shore up their value proposition in a way that is not easily replicated by its PC-only competitors.
nichch 5y ago
The Steam Link continues to be very useful for my girlfriend and I. It’s plug and play and we haven’t had issues with compatibility or controllers like we have trying to set steam up on a Pi 4.
- jhanschoo 5y ago
  I'm wondering what the value you saw in Steam on the Pi 4 is considering that the Pi 4 is ARM.
Blackthorn 5y ago
Did the steam link really go nowhere? I have a physical box, and it works magically well. My understanding is it's still available, just not as a physical box.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I have one too, I got it on ridiculous clearance when they stopped making them. If they had been successful, why would Valve have needed to liquidate stock? It currently sits in a box somewhere in my house because I have never had any use for it, which I think is the case for most PC gamers, hence its failure.
  - Blackthorn 5y ago
    Right, my understanding is it's still available but not as a physical hardware box anymore but instead as some kind of software. But it's still there and supported, no?
  - rkido 5y ago
    The Link hardware just wasn't necessary anymore once the software became good enough to run on any device as an app. I have Stream Link on my TV as an app now.
    - evad3r 5y ago
      I tried Steam Link on my Android TV and it ran like hot garbage - I think the main issue I had was bluetooth input lag was very bad. My physical Steam Link still works very well with my bluetooth controller.
    - ideamotor 5y ago
      Have you compared the input lag to an ethernet connected steam link? It’s not even close for me and my apple tv is connected via ethernet as well.
- 0-_-0 5y ago
  It works, but if you have an nvidia GPU Moonlight works better.
capeterson 5y ago
To be fair though, Valve does make the best consumer VR headset available (Valve Index).
- practice9 5y ago
  It's still one of the best tethered headsets even considering it's 2 years old already. Other ones have disadvantages in many areas (like tracking) still. I'm waiting for some company to release a decent hybrid standalone + tethered headset (that can compete with Oculus Quest at least on the hardware specs), but most companies are only interested in selling very expensive devices for enterprise
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    is there any indication of a valve index 2 coming? given that facebook is a no-go for me, that makes the index the most appealing VR option for me. but it would suck to buy soon and have the next iteration come out right after I buy
    - deadbunny 5y ago
      I own an Index and would highly recommend it. Even if something was on the horizon. It's fantastic. With that said I vaguely remember seeing a patent for a wireless index 2 recently. Can't remember where though so I may be wrong.
    - SSLy 5y ago
      From the internet, there doesn't seem to be any rumours about index2.
    - samtheDamned 5y ago
      My completely uninformed opinion would be after the deck is launched and all it's kinks ironed out they'll probably work on an index 2
- baby 5y ago
  What? That’s false. Oculus quest 2 is hands down the best consumer VR headset available. It’s not even comparable.
chx 5y ago
> On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. Why? I thought PC gaming is about powerful graphics cards you can't have pretty much anywhere else.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  There's a relatively niche segment of the PC gaming population that really wants to push the envelope in graphics. I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s, all sorts of mods, games from random nobodies on the internet, the latest games, and also emulate a wide variety of game systems and computers.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Oblivion on Xbox= ffffff that glitch. Delete everything start over from scratch. Oblivion on PC= glitch? Options are- Unofficial patch, console, mod myself Heck I would have deleted the marauder from Doom Eternal if I didn't quit playing video games forever out of frustration. Now I read nonfiction books.
  - westpfelia 5y ago
    https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ This is directly from valve. It's probably what Valve looks at when making these decisions. I assume this APU is relatively similar to the 1060 in power? Maybe the 1050. But I haven't seen any benchmarking around the APU.
    - rasz 5y ago
      This APU is slower than base PS4, and ~2x slower than 8 year old GTX 760. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ
      - Strom 5y ago
m-p-3 5y ago
I'm also wondering if they'll open the door to third-party apps on the Steam Deck, which could let you use it for other cloud-based gaming platforms like Stadia.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  It's a PC running SteamOS (apparently Arch base with KDE Plasma). You can install anything on there that you can install in Arch, or install Windows or another Linux distro if you want. This is all in the copy: "You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever."
  - m-p-3 5y ago
    I just saw about the dock, if I didn't build a new PC recently I'd be definitely considering that for gaming.
caconym_ 5y ago
The thing about Valve's record with hardware is that the products aren't bad, just extremely niche. If this thing really can play most of most people's Steam games in a Switch-like form factor with a standard gamepad layout, I think it stands to be a hit in a way their past hardware attempts weren't. It's also an interesting counterpoint to all the streaming services popping up these days. PC game streaming to mobile has major downsides, even more so when you're away from stable and fast internet. Until 5G is everywhere and mobile bandwidth [soft] caps aren't a thing anymore, a mobile device that can play games locally will be a much more attractive option for a lot of people.
- Ashanmaril 5y ago
  I'd argue the Steam controller was kinda bad. But more in concept than execution. The touch pads were just not a good replacement for a thumbstick or a D-pad But I agree with what you're saying. If this thing is actually good, it could have some real mainstream appeal.
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    I felt completely differently, the Steam Controller is my favorite one by far. The touch pads make so much sense for a lot of games, and you still have the analog stick for the rest.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Steam controller definitely took a minute to get used to..now it's the best controller of all time. Steam chords are brilliant. If you have a steam controller and don't know about steam chords, go look it up. Life changing.
  - caconym_ 5y ago
    > I'd argue the Steam controller was kinda bad. But more in concept than execution. The touch pads were just not a good replacement for a thumbstick or a D-pad There are plenty of people with great things to say about it, but they largely seem to be people who wanted to play FPS games without a mouse and keyboard, and were willing to put in some effort to get it configured right. I can imagine it being more successful if it had gotten first-class out-of-the-box support for more games, but it seems like it never reached the level of adoption where that was worth it for developers. I've never tried it myself, though. If the Steam Deck is a success, maybe we'll see the Steam Controller model finally take off (since the Deck has similar touchpads built in). Or maybe it will be like the Kinect, a pet feature deleted in later hardware revisions.
andrewljohnson 5y ago
I don't really see how a cheap, low-end, mobile computer is going to kill off desktop gaming. Why would that happen? People will all of a sudden stop wanting top end equipment and big high-res screens because they can play some Steam Gameboy?
- huffmsa 5y ago
  You can plug it into a display, and plug in a mouse + keyboard. I'd be inclined to buy one of these for gaming and an ultra light laptop for laptop stuff when the time comes, versus getting a gaming laptop or desktop.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    But with it being designed to run AAA games on 1280x800 at 30fps, how good is it going to be on my 4k 60fps display?
    - kingosticks 5y ago
      That is my question also and presumably the answer is "not very good" but we'll have to wait and see as I can't find any info on this. Surely they'll have to rate the experience on a per-game basis when in 4k docked mode else (a small number of) people won't be happy.
    - lifeformed 5y ago
      Not to mention that 60fps is considered nearly unplayable for competitive FPS players.
      - lostgame 5y ago
        Competitive FPS players would never pick this unit or similar up with an intent to play competitively on it. Competitive FPS playing is kinda like NASCAR. The hardware and configuration of hardware is critical if you actually want to win.
sprafa 5y ago
The Valve Index was a testing ground for their hardware efforts. I 100% believe they are serious, they've built a hardware operation.
ergot_vacation 5y ago
It's a neat piece of hardware, but I have a hard time believing it will be any more than a fad. Who is this for? Serious PC gamers? Why not just play on the "real" PC they already have, with the super-expensive monitor, graphics card, and input devices they carefully assembled? Casual gamers that don't care so much about those things and want to play meatier games on the go? Why wouldn't they just buy a Switch (which already carries many "PC" games, large and small)? The Index was genuinely revolutionary, despite also being punishingly expensive. It's hard not to feel a sense of envy on seeing one in action. But this? No one will care in a year (or maybe even six months).
- marderfarker2 5y ago
  I game casually and did not buy a switch, simply because I do not want to plonk $300 on a single-use device that does a marginal job at gaming (mediocre graphics, expensive games). Steam Deck is a slightly more expensive gaming device, but it does so much more. Previous attempts at these palm sized gaming PC failed because they were half assed, software and hardware wise. Steam deck isn’t.
  - dan-robertson 5y ago
    I never saw the switch as a device for games in general. It is mostly the vessel for the next iteration of Nintendo-exclusive games. Those games don’t need super fancy hardware because the point of the games isn’t to show you the latest graphics. The switch isn’t “just a handheld games console like any other.” It is “this thing you must buy to play the latest mario/Zelda/animal crossing game.” Obviously if you aren’t interested in those games there isn’t so much of a point.
    - sbergot 5y ago
      Until today the switch was a good option for indie games. But now the steam deck is going to eat a big chunk of that cake I think.
- sbergot 5y ago
  I have a gaming PC and a switch. I buy and play lots of indie games. Each time I have to pick a platform. Steam: more support, lower price, won't have to buy it again if another "version" of the hardware comes out Switch: portable, multiple controllers for local multiplayers. Now I don't have to choose anymore. And I already have a big library of games. I will only need a switch for exclusive games and local multiplayer games.
ineedasername 5y ago
Same, I even made a comment a few weeks ago that SteamOS seemed abandonware w/o any recent updates. Glad to be wrong. And sure their hardware projects often don't hit mainstream success & stick around for multiple generations, but I still had a Steam Alienware Alpha that was both my daily driver & gaming rig for a few years, and still occasionally use a cheap Steam Link for in-home streaming.
thefunnyman 5y ago
Steam link is not the best example as they’ve made it available on standard hardware like raspberry pi and it’s baked into the OS of many smart TVs now. They just pivoted from selling their own hardware for it. They also continue to update the controller features, including adding in Bluetooth support long after release.
swiley 5y ago
Microsoft seems to think Windows is better for ads than anything else at this point. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, the people running the show have made up their minds and game developers and players need somewhere else to go.
dariusj18 5y ago
The Steam Controller was actually awful though. It was so very very loud.
Jnr 5y ago
I appreciate what Valve is doing and I will vote with my money. I don't see myself as a "handheld gamer" but I am making a reservation today just to be able to play with that device a bit.

superkuh 5y ago

I love Valve but it seems like they create these hardware projects to occasionally remind platform owners like microsoft/playstation/nintendo that they can't completely abuse their users and software devs (Win10 store lock-in, etc) and retain all of them. Valve just wants to protect steam and credible hardware platform competition is how they do it. I don't think they have any real plans to produce and support hardware long term.

belltaco 5y ago
And yet it looks like you cannot use the Steam Deck without logging into a Steam account. Looks like we are trading in one lock-in for another.
- kaetemi 5y ago
  You can install any OS on it, it's just a PC.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Seems like you can access the KDE desktop, so I think using the Steam account isn't mandatory. Not 100% sure though. Previous Steam machines allowed full control, even changing the OS.
- filoleg 5y ago
  Apples to oranges. Valve is concerned about hardware lock-in, not software lock-in. I think users care more about being able to play their games on any hardware platform they own than about which software platform hosts their games. Also, it seems like Steam Deck is just running a customized Linux distro, so it isn't really a lock-in. If Epic Games or Ubisoft decides to make their game stores work on Linux, I bet they would run on Steam Deck too. If that's the case, then how is it Valve's fault that other vendors/game stores aren't bothering to make their software platforms/games work on Linux? Valve put in the work, and they want to reap the fruits of it, without even trying to lock-in their device from using any other competitors' software (as far as I am aware). Competitors just gotta put in the work to make their platforms work on Linux.
  - ElFitz 5y ago
    > Apples to oranges Apple to Valve?
  - kbenson 5y ago
    > If Epic Games or Ubisoft decides to make their game stores work on Linux, I bet they would run on Steam Deck too. They can, because the FAQ says it's just a PC running Arch linux and you can install Windows on it if you want, which means you can do whatever you want. Maybe it can run on the same OS (probably, if it's just Linux, but we'll see how customized it is), or at a minimum you could just install something else.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  They state you can install a different OS. That is just if you want the default system. There was a video playing CK3 that shows KDE running so it's not like you can't install windows or a different distro.
  - yellowapple 5y ago
    KDE is part of the stock software, apparently. Similar to existing versions of SteamOS in that regard, except with Arch + KDE instead of Debian + GNOME.
- lawl 5y ago
  > And yet it looks like you cannot use the Steam Deck without logging into a Steam account. Looks like we are trading in one lock-in for another. valve so far has been miles better than any other big DRM platform. i would almost bet valve will let you have root on these and do whatever you want with the hardware without any jailbreaks. It may not be supported, but I really cannot imagine them locking this down. That would be very much unlike valve. iirc steam machines back in the day did also let you go into a bash shell? full disclosure: i may contain traces of a valve fanboy.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever. https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware https://www.steamdeck.com/en/hardware
  - l-albertovich 5y ago
    I'd like to think they'll at least make it easy to root or otherwise repurpose these because I like them and would likely get one, however, in the software part of the specs they state that they have been in the works with game studios to basically have them implement their anti-cheat systems in their platform so I suspect said studios would be against that. This is pure speculation on my side and I really hope I'm dead wrong but that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think about it (also, their own DRM right?). Edit : the reply bellow seems to prove me wrong =)
    - techrat 5y ago
      Why speculate when you can read directly from the product page yourself? >You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever. and >The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. That said, Steam Deck is a PC so you can install third party software and operating systems.
  - 5y ago
- danso 5y ago
  The ign preview suggests otherwise: https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-hands-on-impressions-details-valve-handheld-gaming-pc https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-hands-on-impressions... > This flexibility means you can do pretty much anything on the Steam Deck that you can do with a regular PC. Connect a mouse and keyboard? Yep. Alt-Tab out of your games to a browser or video? Sure. Load third-party programs or even other game stores like Origin, uPlay, or Epic Games Store? No problem. You could even wipe Steam OS entirely and install a fresh version of Windows if you want – but the default Steam OS is smooth and efficient at getting you into your games, so I imagine most people won’t want or need to go that far. The point is, you can if you’d like to.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    I wonder if pure cloud service like GeForce Now can then be used, to benefit from portable hardware but have semblance of battery life, and avoid a likely jetengine cooling fan spin up...
    - captn3m0 5y ago
      Assuming that Valve does a decent job with integrating the inputs, and they show up correctly with the HTML5 GamePad APIs, it ought to just work.
- timdorr 5y ago
  You don't need a Steam account if you're not using the default Steam Deck install. Wipe it and install TempleOS. > Do I need a Steam account to use Steam Deck? > The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. That said, Steam Deck is a PC so you can install third party software and operating systems. https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck
  - blooalien 5y ago
    > The default Steam Deck experience requires a Steam account (it's free!). Games are purchased and downloaded using the Steam Store. I imagine that would be because the "default Steam Deck experience" probably defaults to booting into Steam Big Picture mode, just like SteamOS does by default.
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  On the landing page they say "You can connect to peripherals, throw the picture onto a big screen, and do all the other PC things you'd expect." On the hardware page they show it docked and running a normal desktop interface and say "Use your Deck as a PC. Because it is one" and "You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever." On the spec page, it says the OS is SteamOS 3.0 (Arch-based) and Desktop is KDE Plasma. I guess I'm just not understanding where you'd even get the impression that it would be locked into a Steam account.
- mcdevilkiller 5y ago
  Wrong, you can install whatever OS you want, the developers even said so. You have a lot of freedom.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  The FAQs and such make it clear that it's basically an ordinary PC in a handheld form factor; if you don't want to log into a Steam account, then any ol' Linux distro or even Windows should run on it just fine (though whether the handheld controls play nicely is something I'd be curious about).
- mastazi 5y ago
  They say in their partner website that it's a PC, and that you can even wipe out Steam OS and install another OS if you want. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/steamdeck/faq
CivBase 5y ago
> I don't think they have any real plans to produce and support hardware long term. With Valve's track record, I absolutely believe they have limited plans for production in the long term. But their long-term hardware support is impeccable. I have several discontinued pieces of hardware from Valve (the Steam Link and Steam Controller), both of which are still used and work as well as they day I bought them - better even, thanks to continued software updates.
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  The Steam Link, released in 2015 and discontinued in 2018, is still getting firmware updates to this day. Valve's long-term support of the hardware they do release really is impeccable.
minsc__and__boo 5y ago
Seems like the Google Fiber strategy - start deploying key products/services to influence the big players in the market to finally innovate or at least play nice for consumers.
- AceJohnny2 5y ago
  Sadly, I'm not convinced that strategy has any long term effect. I'm still bitter about how bad & expensive Internet access is in the Silicon Valley
  - minsc__and__boo 5y ago
    I think that says more about Silicon Valley municipal priorities than anything else. Besides, when it comes to infrastructure and consumer habits, influencing any change for the better is still better than none at all.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Afintiy: From $29.99/month for for 10 mbps. AT&T: From $40.00/mo for 45 mbps What are you paying?
    - solumos 5y ago
      Isn't Fiber more than 20x that speed for less than 2x the price in Austin, TX?
    - rewq4321 5y ago
      Honest question (I may have misunderstood): Do you mean to imply that those are good prices? For reference, I'm paying about $40 for 1000 mbps (I'm not in the US). Can go to 10gbps for about double that price (IIRC), but I think the bottleneck becomes server bandwidth so it wouldn't speed me up for most services.
      - zeusk 5y ago
        I pay $50 for symmetric gigabit in Redmond, WA. Not everywhere in US has crappy internet but the most populous places are entrenched.
MikusR 5y ago
What windows store lock-in?
- Nullabillity 5y ago
  MS has tried to push locked versions of Windows several times over the years, starting with Windows RT up until S Mode (which is still a thing).
- kmeisthax 5y ago
  This is way back about a decade ago, when Valve was very Windows-centric and barely even had macOS ports of Steam running. Windows 8 was announced with an entirely new application type, APIs, and distribution model intended to support tablets. Existing applications were shoved in the Desktop penalty box, while new applications had to be fullscreen or side-by-side, like a tablet. Furthermore, Windows on ARM was announced, with the Desktop penalty box further restricted to only Windows apps (though you could jailbreak it). If you wanted your app to work as a tablet app, you had to rewrite it for XAML and distribute it through the Microsoft Store, with similar technical restrictions to that of Apple's. The very clear message from Microsoft was that the future of Windows was in fullscreen tablet apps and that the desktop - as well as third-party app stores - was going away. Valve would proceed to launch a Linux version of Steam a few months before Windows 8 RTM'd, their own Linux distro a year later, and consolized PC hardware another year after that. Basically, the whole company made a very clear pivot away from game development (which they still haven't fully gone back to) to ensure Steam had a lifeboat if Windows 9 were to drop the Desktop or enforce app lockouts on it. Of course, what actually happened is that Windows 8 became the laughing stock of the entire PC industry. Microsoft was trying, like, five developer transitions at once and nobody was interested. (Not even Apple can do that, and they actually did try. Ask me about Rhapsody sometime.) So the end result is that app developers never wrote anything to the new native XAML APIs, users just used the Desktop app, and nobody had any interest in Windows on ARM tablets. That's why you don't remember the Windows Store lock-in; in Windows 10, Microsoft got rid of it.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    No it didn't, in fact the new revamped store also includes Win32. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/06/24/building-a-new-open-microsoft-store-on-windows-11/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/06/24/build...
ineedasername 5y ago
A reminder that if Microsoft does continue along that path, Valve is happy to come along and gobble up significant portions of their market share. It's a win-win for Valve: either MS keeps their platform out of a walled garden, allowing Steam to continue it's current path, or Valve eats their lunch while making Linux in general a more mainstream option.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
End of the day Valve will never work seriously on hardware at a level will allow them to compete. Hardware is extremely difficult and extremely expensive. High effort and almost always low to no reward unless you manage to create a breakout device. Valve already has the business that most people build the hardware for in the first place. The reason Microsoft makes Xbox is to get a cut of game sales and sell a subscription. Valve already gets a cut of almost all PC sales so really trying to build hardware looks bad on almost every conceivable company chart within Valve. Yet they keep doing it every 5 years ago due to presumably due to their weird management.
- linuxftw 5y ago
  They're not building traditional hardware. This is off the shelf components assembled in a particular manner, most likely by a 3rd party. IMO, this is a great move. They're building a cheap device that plays AAA games in a cool Switch-like form factor. I think targeting teenagers and young adults. I think the industry is changing how they do business, a mainstream Linux/AMD device is leading the way.
  - whywhywhywhy 5y ago
    > They're not building traditional hardware. This is off the shelf components assembled in a particular manner I can tell you from personal experience this isn't easy at all and is just as difficult as any other hardware project, even if you're not literally building new processors or hardware firmwares it's still a huge mission getting something like that to market let alone making it profitable. I work on a company that has shipped laptops where we designed all the casing with off the shelf processor/storage/etc, so have worked on what you're describing here.
    - linuxftw 5y ago
      Laptops are completely commoditized, of course you would struggle with profitability there. For a company the size of Valve, building these devices probably carries very little risk. The biggest risk is the software, which they were going to tackle anyway.
jhanschoo 5y ago
I think it's reasonable to think Valve is more committed with this. Valve now faces more competitors in game distribution than ever and it's a good way to shore up their value proposition in a way that is not easily replicated by its PC-only competitors.

nichch 5y ago

The Steam Link continues to be very useful for my girlfriend and I. It’s plug and play and we haven’t had issues with compatibility or controllers like we have trying to set steam up on a Pi 4.

jhanschoo 5y ago
I'm wondering what the value you saw in Steam on the Pi 4 is considering that the Pi 4 is ARM.

Blackthorn 5y ago

Did the steam link really go nowhere? I have a physical box, and it works magically well. My understanding is it's still available, just not as a physical box.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I have one too, I got it on ridiculous clearance when they stopped making them. If they had been successful, why would Valve have needed to liquidate stock? It currently sits in a box somewhere in my house because I have never had any use for it, which I think is the case for most PC gamers, hence its failure.
- Blackthorn 5y ago
  Right, my understanding is it's still available but not as a physical hardware box anymore but instead as some kind of software. But it's still there and supported, no?
- rkido 5y ago
  The Link hardware just wasn't necessary anymore once the software became good enough to run on any device as an app. I have Stream Link on my TV as an app now.
  - evad3r 5y ago
    I tried Steam Link on my Android TV and it ran like hot garbage - I think the main issue I had was bluetooth input lag was very bad. My physical Steam Link still works very well with my bluetooth controller.
  - ideamotor 5y ago
    Have you compared the input lag to an ethernet connected steam link? It’s not even close for me and my apple tv is connected via ethernet as well.
0-_-0 5y ago
It works, but if you have an nvidia GPU Moonlight works better.

capeterson 5y ago

To be fair though, Valve does make the best consumer VR headset available (Valve Index).

practice9 5y ago
It's still one of the best tethered headsets even considering it's 2 years old already. Other ones have disadvantages in many areas (like tracking) still. I'm waiting for some company to release a decent hybrid standalone + tethered headset (that can compete with Oculus Quest at least on the hardware specs), but most companies are only interested in selling very expensive devices for enterprise
- silicon2401 5y ago
  is there any indication of a valve index 2 coming? given that facebook is a no-go for me, that makes the index the most appealing VR option for me. but it would suck to buy soon and have the next iteration come out right after I buy
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    I own an Index and would highly recommend it. Even if something was on the horizon. It's fantastic. With that said I vaguely remember seeing a patent for a wireless index 2 recently. Can't remember where though so I may be wrong.
  - SSLy 5y ago
    From the internet, there doesn't seem to be any rumours about index2.
  - samtheDamned 5y ago
    My completely uninformed opinion would be after the deck is launched and all it's kinks ironed out they'll probably work on an index 2
baby 5y ago
What? That’s false. Oculus quest 2 is hands down the best consumer VR headset available. It’s not even comparable.

chx 5y ago

> On the other hand, it could end up all but killing off PC gaming if it is super successful. Why? I thought PC gaming is about powerful graphics cards you can't have pretty much anywhere else.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
There's a relatively niche segment of the PC gaming population that really wants to push the envelope in graphics. I think most PC gamers like gaming on their PC because it is a very open platform that allows them to play games they bought the 90s, all sorts of mods, games from random nobodies on the internet, the latest games, and also emulate a wide variety of game systems and computers.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  Oblivion on Xbox= ffffff that glitch. Delete everything start over from scratch. Oblivion on PC= glitch? Options are- Unofficial patch, console, mod myself Heck I would have deleted the marauder from Doom Eternal if I didn't quit playing video games forever out of frustration. Now I read nonfiction books.
- westpfelia 5y ago
  https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ This is directly from valve. It's probably what Valve looks at when making these decisions. I assume this APU is relatively similar to the 1060 in power? Maybe the 1050. But I haven't seen any benchmarking around the APU.
  - rasz 5y ago
    This APU is slower than base PS4, and ~2x slower than 8 year old GTX 760. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4z4igRnlLQ
    - Strom 5y ago

m-p-3 5y ago

I'm also wondering if they'll open the door to third-party apps on the Steam Deck, which could let you use it for other cloud-based gaming platforms like Stadia.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
It's a PC running SteamOS (apparently Arch base with KDE Plasma). You can install anything on there that you can install in Arch, or install Windows or another Linux distro if you want. This is all in the copy: "You can also install and use PC software, of course. Browse the web, watch streaming video, do your normal productivity stuff, install some other game stores, whatever."
- m-p-3 5y ago
  I just saw about the dock, if I didn't build a new PC recently I'd be definitely considering that for gaming.

caconym_ 5y ago

The thing about Valve's record with hardware is that the products aren't bad, just extremely niche. If this thing really can play most of most people's Steam games in a Switch-like form factor with a standard gamepad layout, I think it stands to be a hit in a way their past hardware attempts weren't. It's also an interesting counterpoint to all the streaming services popping up these days. PC game streaming to mobile has major downsides, even more so when you're away from stable and fast internet. Until 5G is everywhere and mobile bandwidth [soft] caps aren't a thing anymore, a mobile device that can play games locally will be a much more attractive option for a lot of people.

Ashanmaril 5y ago
I'd argue the Steam controller was kinda bad. But more in concept than execution. The touch pads were just not a good replacement for a thumbstick or a D-pad But I agree with what you're saying. If this thing is actually good, it could have some real mainstream appeal.
- schmorptron 5y ago
  I felt completely differently, the Steam Controller is my favorite one by far. The touch pads make so much sense for a lot of games, and you still have the analog stick for the rest.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  Steam controller definitely took a minute to get used to..now it's the best controller of all time. Steam chords are brilliant. If you have a steam controller and don't know about steam chords, go look it up. Life changing.
- caconym_ 5y ago
  > I'd argue the Steam controller was kinda bad. But more in concept than execution. The touch pads were just not a good replacement for a thumbstick or a D-pad There are plenty of people with great things to say about it, but they largely seem to be people who wanted to play FPS games without a mouse and keyboard, and were willing to put in some effort to get it configured right. I can imagine it being more successful if it had gotten first-class out-of-the-box support for more games, but it seems like it never reached the level of adoption where that was worth it for developers. I've never tried it myself, though. If the Steam Deck is a success, maybe we'll see the Steam Controller model finally take off (since the Deck has similar touchpads built in). Or maybe it will be like the Kinect, a pet feature deleted in later hardware revisions.

andrewljohnson 5y ago

I don't really see how a cheap, low-end, mobile computer is going to kill off desktop gaming. Why would that happen? People will all of a sudden stop wanting top end equipment and big high-res screens because they can play some Steam Gameboy?

huffmsa 5y ago
You can plug it into a display, and plug in a mouse + keyboard. I'd be inclined to buy one of these for gaming and an ultra light laptop for laptop stuff when the time comes, versus getting a gaming laptop or desktop.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  But with it being designed to run AAA games on 1280x800 at 30fps, how good is it going to be on my 4k 60fps display?
  - kingosticks 5y ago
    That is my question also and presumably the answer is "not very good" but we'll have to wait and see as I can't find any info on this. Surely they'll have to rate the experience on a per-game basis when in 4k docked mode else (a small number of) people won't be happy.
  - lifeformed 5y ago
    Not to mention that 60fps is considered nearly unplayable for competitive FPS players.
    - lostgame 5y ago
      Competitive FPS players would never pick this unit or similar up with an intent to play competitively on it. Competitive FPS playing is kinda like NASCAR. The hardware and configuration of hardware is critical if you actually want to win.

sprafa 5y ago

The Valve Index was a testing ground for their hardware efforts. I 100% believe they are serious, they've built a hardware operation.

ergot_vacation 5y ago

It's a neat piece of hardware, but I have a hard time believing it will be any more than a fad. Who is this for? Serious PC gamers? Why not just play on the "real" PC they already have, with the super-expensive monitor, graphics card, and input devices they carefully assembled? Casual gamers that don't care so much about those things and want to play meatier games on the go? Why wouldn't they just buy a Switch (which already carries many "PC" games, large and small)? The Index was genuinely revolutionary, despite also being punishingly expensive. It's hard not to feel a sense of envy on seeing one in action. But this? No one will care in a year (or maybe even six months).

marderfarker2 5y ago
I game casually and did not buy a switch, simply because I do not want to plonk $300 on a single-use device that does a marginal job at gaming (mediocre graphics, expensive games). Steam Deck is a slightly more expensive gaming device, but it does so much more. Previous attempts at these palm sized gaming PC failed because they were half assed, software and hardware wise. Steam deck isn’t.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  I never saw the switch as a device for games in general. It is mostly the vessel for the next iteration of Nintendo-exclusive games. Those games don’t need super fancy hardware because the point of the games isn’t to show you the latest graphics. The switch isn’t “just a handheld games console like any other.” It is “this thing you must buy to play the latest mario/Zelda/animal crossing game.” Obviously if you aren’t interested in those games there isn’t so much of a point.
  - sbergot 5y ago
    Until today the switch was a good option for indie games. But now the steam deck is going to eat a big chunk of that cake I think.
sbergot 5y ago
I have a gaming PC and a switch. I buy and play lots of indie games. Each time I have to pick a platform. Steam: more support, lower price, won't have to buy it again if another "version" of the hardware comes out Switch: portable, multiple controllers for local multiplayers. Now I don't have to choose anymore. And I already have a big library of games. I will only need a switch for exclusive games and local multiplayer games.

ineedasername 5y ago

Same, I even made a comment a few weeks ago that SteamOS seemed abandonware w/o any recent updates. Glad to be wrong. And sure their hardware projects often don't hit mainstream success & stick around for multiple generations, but I still had a Steam Alienware Alpha that was both my daily driver & gaming rig for a few years, and still occasionally use a cheap Steam Link for in-home streaming.

thefunnyman 5y ago

Steam link is not the best example as they’ve made it available on standard hardware like raspberry pi and it’s baked into the OS of many smart TVs now. They just pivoted from selling their own hardware for it. They also continue to update the controller features, including adding in Bluetooth support long after release.

swiley 5y ago

Microsoft seems to think Windows is better for ads than anything else at this point. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, the people running the show have made up their minds and game developers and players need somewhere else to go.

dariusj18 5y ago

The Steam Controller was actually awful though. It was so very very loud.

Jnr 5y ago

I appreciate what Valve is doing and I will vote with my money. I don't see myself as a "handheld gamer" but I am making a reservation today just to be able to play with that device a bit.