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Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

77 points by WuTangCFO 5y ago

29athrowaway 5y ago
If you love nature leave nature alone. 1. People hike somewhere 2. A positive review is written, that attracts more people 3. Because of the increased amount of people going to certain place, a hotel and a restaurant is built. 4. Restaurant workers and hotel workers need a place to live, so they build houses. 5. Houses need a power plant, water, trash service... police stations, fire stations, healthcare. 6. Nature is now gone. 7. The guy in living next to the formerly popular outdoor spot feels like having fun in the outdoors. The cycle is repeated until all outdoor spots are gone.
- stnmtn 5y ago
  This is perhaps the most cynical comment I've seen. Are you seriously advocating that it's impossible to enjoy nature in a healthy way?
  - 29athrowaway 5y ago
    Nature does not exist for you to "enjoy" it. Nature seeks balance by evolving creatures that have a reciprocal relationship with the environment. Every creature has a specific role. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q Humans have no predators. We are effectively an invasive species that does not seek balance with the environment and thrive at the expense of the balance that nature has created in an unsustainable manner.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
IMO problem the author had is she had too much money too early in her career and therefore didn't get thrown in the deep end with regard to using it efficiently. I'm going to assume she grew up in a fairly successful middle class household based on education and some other details in the articles so it's a pretty safe bet money wasn't something she grew up learning how to use efficiently to "level up" one's life. She's already starting from a deficit because she's a women of how society emphasizes wealth as an indicator for societal success for men more than women so she's not gonna spend her formative years having people tell her to chase the dollar. Basically her parents didn't teach her and society didn't make her teach herself so it took her 20yr to figure it out.
alisonkisk 5y ago
The answer to the headline is, of course, because almost everyone sucks at money.
- stevenpetryk 5y ago
  It seems as though it is increasingly hard to make sufficient money in the first place.
  - tru3_power 5y ago
    Forsure getting harder to keep it !
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    I lived close to paycheck to paycheck for a few years as I was paying for my school, then my wife's school. I was one of the few to do Community college, live with parents, then when my job required moving, my gf. I didn't eat out. I didn't buy new stuff. My poor friends buy/lease new cars, Apple products, take out, alcohol at bars, etc... I still don't do this. I don't expect these people to save 30k/yr. I expect them to save 5k/yr, but they squander it. They make sufficient money, they spend it on marketed products.
- WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
  But here's the thing. I have $80 and need to pay $100 in bills. There aren't any money skills that can overpower math.
  - falcor84 5y ago
    I think the relevant skill would be the ability to pitch this cash shortfall of yours as an investment opportunity for some other unfortunate fool
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    I don’t think that’s the right way to think about it. You usually aren’t born needing to pay $100, and having $80, there are probably decisions you make that put you more or less likely to be in that situation, some obvious, some not. Sometimes you do get shit luck, but I think there are always ways to mitigate the negative consequences of bad luck, and maximize the consequences of good luck. We have a lot of control over how our lives turn out here in the US, though not complete control, and it’s worth remembering that.
pope_meat 5y ago
why people with no money so bad at having no money. probably lazy and dumb, yeah, that's it. i feel better already.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. A 2017 survey by CareerBuilder found that 78 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, while a 2019 survey by Bankrate found that 60 percent of us couldn’t cover a $1,000 emergency. For most in this predicament, it has nothing to do with being bad with money. It has everything to do with their income being 80% of their essential bills.
- Swizec 5y ago
  > but I can tell you that there were $60 rounds of drinks purchased without a second thought and $25 cab rides to the bars. There were $1,500 ski-season cabin shares in Lake Tahoe and a $150-a-month membership at Equinox. There were multiple Starbucks lattes per day and $18 organic steak salads eaten at my desk. I don't think this is someone who can't cover essential bills with their salary. This is the trap kids fall into (my early 20's self included) when they first start making real money and it feels endless. It's not endless. It's very easy to fritter away.
  - saurik 5y ago
    WarOnPrivacy wasn't saying that this person was someone who wasn't making much money; they were replying to the rational for this not being "abnormal": most people who live paycheck-to-paycheck--not this person, but most people--simply don't make much money... they aren't "bad with it".
  - lhorie 5y ago
    It's interesting hearing others' experiences on this. Among my circles, my friends would sometimes comment on how weird it was to come to terms with the fact they were no longer dirt poor college students and how now they had disposable income and how guilty they'd feel spending money due to the frugal student mentality. To this day, I still don't feel the urge to buy things on impulse, or because peers have them or do trendy things.
    - Swizec 5y ago
      When it happened to me I went from a lifetime of being poor (not just college student poor, family poor before college even) to making 3x the national median salary in the span of 2 years. Yeah it was a little intoxicating and I def overdid it. No regrets tho. Moving to America (sfba) quickly fixed that. Now I’m back to being pretty frugal (but not too much) and investing in asset building. Turns out that’s more rewarding. But your early to mid 20’s are a great time to go a little crazy if you can. It will never again feel the same. You have little responsibility and lots of time to catch up later.
jxramos 5y ago
In a 2014 study, he found that 58 percent of affluent people are first-generation wealth, not trust-fund babies. I've heard that idea before, that the notion of inherited unearned wealth as explaining the bulk of the wealthy population is actually misleading. Same thing was said in that old book The Millionaire Mind I think.
- munificent 5y ago
  I think people is the wrong metric for this statistic. A large number of just-barely-affluent nouveau riche could drown out a handful of old money robber barons that own the world. The much more interesting statistic would slice it by dollar: What percentage of dollars are owned by first-generation wealthy versus old money?
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
    Really depends on what you’re trying to use the number for. If you’re trying to study wealthy people, it makes sense to use stats that are counting people filtered by wealth. If you are trying to study wealth itself, it makes sense to use stats that are weighted by dollar.
    - jxramos 5y ago
      that's what I figured, the people metric seems more pertinent to ideas of economic mobility across the population as a whole, we could think of a population percentile, like say jumping into the notorious 1%. But the other metric is interesting too, something like an age x wealth product, the longer the wealth was held the higher the score, and the more wealth held the higher the score too. One could imagine like an area under net worth curve and create a histogram with decades of time as buckets, say across a 300 year span maybe?
  - wcarss 5y ago
    I spent the last 25 minutes trying to find out exactly that, and have so far come up nearly blank, but I agree that dollars inherited is a way more useful question. The meme of "a high percent of people who are millionaires are first-generation millionaires" is pervasive. Googling this returns mostly investment scheme websites and CNBC/USA Today/etc clickbait quoting "The Millionaire Next Door", and talking about how "If They Did It, You Can Do It Too!" -- it's like something straight out of lies, damned lies, and statistics.
allenu 5y ago
I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I remember talking with coworkers about bikes and one was recommend bikes to another coworker who wanted to get into cycling and he was recommending some pricey options. I remember thinking that if you want to get into cycling, you really don't have to spend a lot. Cycling shouldn't be about the gear itself. It should be about, well, getting out there and cycling. But for some people, half the fun is spending money on the toys. That same coworker admitted a few weeks later that he bought himself yet another bike, one that was several thousand dollars. Meanwhile I was stressing with my $1200 bike purchase as that felt like a lot of money.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Also, outdoorsy stuff is where many rich kids spend their money. So there are poor models to follow wrt money.
- catillac 5y ago
  It’s true that a lot of things take an investment but I don’t think you should be so prescriptive about some things like when you say: “Cycling shouldn't be about the gear itself. It should be about, well, getting out there and cycling.” People can of course enjoy a hobby or activity and get something out of it that’s not the thing you think they should be getting out of it and that’s awesome. It’s okay if the fun is in spending the money, and it’s okay if you have a $1200 bike and don’t care about that stuff. They’re both equal ways of approaching any given hobby.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    True, but if you regularly spend $1200 on a bike you don’t need maybe you shouldn’t complain about not having money?
- munk-a 5y ago
Havoc 5y ago
>I have no idea where all my money went. I can so relate to that. Fortunately my natural instincts appear to leave me with cash at end of month which I move to savings...but that is about the extent of my control over things.
- Swizec 5y ago
  Everything changed for me when I moved money to savings automatically on every paycheck. You kinda just figure out how to fit your life into what’s left.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I’m very bad with money and it tends to hit hard with depressive cycles. I end up just buying all kinds of shit I think I can afford (and in some cases can), but then go overboard on other things and running out of money once can turn into a really bad cycle. Trying to figure my way out of probably the worst I’ve ever gotten myself and it’s tough because there’s just no way to get rid of the heaviest hitting expenses. It’s somewhat embarrassing though, because I make more money than a good many of my casual acquaintances, but am likely significantly more broke. The last time this happened to me, my solution was to take even more debt to move to a new job that doubled my salary. I had a plan to be debt free in ~2 years, but that kinda fell apart with COVID. I suppose I could try and do that again, but I’m not in a position professionally to take a better job.
- Vadoff 5y ago
  You have bank account and credit card statements right? Maybe take a look and see where the money is going?
  - Havoc 5y ago
    Quickly becomes a chore when there are lots of cards accounts and platforms involved. Considered binding it together via api but different countries so it’s all a bit messy
cletus 5y ago
I'm a firm believer that everyone should have a skill they can use to support themselves. It doesn't really matter what that is as long as you can't be replaced easily by unskilled labour. So take the author. She wants to be a ski bum while she's young. I respect that, actually. So the question such people should be asking is: what skill could I gain that is compatible with that? Example: being a qualified paramedic/EMT. Why? Ski patrols need them. People get hurt skiing. They always will. I respect the ability to live frugally (as the author did), especially in order to gain experiences. After all, you won't be young forever. You won't be here forever. How much happier will it make you to live in a small house in a sea of suburbia as a billing code administrator for a health insurance company? But hey, at least you have a 401k and dental. The author has several false dichotomies in here (IMHO). For example, comparing the "dirtbag" lifestyle to the "rich". There's a whole lot in between there. Also, living paycheck to paycheck is stressful. So is not having options (eg decision fatigue [1]). Being a journalist is perhaps not the best choice. The people people live one paycheck away from being destitute varies but usually it's not because they want to be a ski bum. It's generally because they've taken on long term expenses they can barely afford. It's because they've convinced themselves they need to provide certain things for their children and families, often because they didn't have it themselves growing up. Things like paying for their college, living in a massive house and so on. In providing these material things I so often see people who don't see their children and bring negativity home because they hate their lives. What good does that do anyone? So many of the decisions people make I find is to have what other people think they should have. Family, neighbours, friends. I can't help but feel that the author still misses the point. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fr...
- 0xB31B1B 5y ago
  >> So the question such people should be asking is: what skill could I gain that is compatible with that? Having seen people go through this thought process, SOO many get it wrong. If you want to ski all the time, you shouldn't be an EMT because money season for those gigs in ski town is the winter. You should find a seasonal job where money season is opposite of ski season. Carpentry/home building is a natural fit, money season is summer not winter, and can pay well enough to work half the year and ski half the year. Another popular gig for ski bums is professional fishing. You can make enough money in a few months fishing in the spring/summer to spend the rest of the time skiing.
monoideism 5y ago
> How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? Uh, lady, you’re 37 years old. If you seriously want a kid, you need to approach finding a spouse with the same seriousness and intention you (admirably) now approach finances. Otherwise, it ain’t gonna happen. But I guess that’s another article.
- kuhzaam 5y ago
  Plenty of people adopt
  - monoideism 5y ago
    I had my first kid at age 34, and part of my deeply regrets not going sooner (wife is much younger). I had some serious health issues by 45, which impeded by ability to raise my kids the way I wanted. Adopting in 40s? Will the parent even still be alive when the kid graduates college? With good luck, genes, and good diet/exercise, yes. Otherwise, likely not.
    - Cola 5y ago
      Life expectancy for a 40 year old in the US is ~80. It is very likely that with an average lifestyle the parents will be around after the child has graduated college.
      - monoideism 5y ago
        Yes, that would be: 50%: some combo of good luck, genes, diet, exercise 50%: some combo of bad luck, genes, diet, exercise
    - valzam 5y ago
      Unless you live in bad parts of Africa I suspect living to 65 is not an unreasonable goal....
    - Vaslo 5y ago
      They often don’t even let you adopt at that age. I knew some 40+ yo families that adopted overseas due to age restrictions. One family adopted from China and one from Eastern Europe.
deleted 5y ago
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rockclimber 5y ago
Why people suck at money? Due to socialist brainwashing in the university.
neither_color 5y ago
After years of living for the moment and YOLOing, author felt bad because she was in her 30s and didnt have wealth, then her parents gave her a large lump sum of money and she was able to apply things she learned from financial management books. The end.
- rhexs 5y ago
  I can’t wait until I can move into a “retired millionaire’s” house at below market rent when I run into tough times. What an inspiring article.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Read between the lines there. She describes him the way people describe their significant others and not the way people generally describe mentors and/or business partners. People don't generally know their landlords well enough to get an understanding of the details of their business and landlords don't tend to rent stuff out at highly discounted rates without very specific business reasons or emotional attachment.
    - exporectomy 5y ago
      Yep. Economics work differently for women because of the asymmetry in the market for sex. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit of a taboo.
- mcavoybn 5y ago
  Yeah I was waiting for the point in this article where it became about "outdoorsy types" and not the author but it never happened. I'd be embarrassed too, mismanaging money and relying on my parents support at 34 years old. I guess the author was just so embarrassed that she published this article about it. Great job with the antagonizing, clickbait title though. I'm guessing "My Tone-deaf Autobiography about How Irresponsible I am" was thrown out.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
jaimex2 5y ago
It's all about finding a balance. I'm outdoorsy and have more money than I know what to do with. Keep the career, keep investing and keep exploring. You don't need to quit your job, just make sure its one the does allow flexibility. If its just not working out you may need to suck it up to get a decent job title that will let you jump across to a company that allows you more flexibility. A 2-5 year endeavour but definitely possible. Outdoorsy gear is expensive, no. Overpriced. Don't buy new. Seriously learn to DIY a bit and repair things. It's easier than you think and a source of accomplishment comes with it. Finally you don't need years off. Long breaks scattered is much better. If you found the right job you'll actually miss it while away, then miss going outdoors while on the job. Absence should make the heart grow fonder for either part of your life.
dougmwne 5y ago
Ignore the click-bait title. This is one woman's coming of age story as she learns to plan for her future; well written and with good self-understanding.
deregulateMed 5y ago
Anyone have money but not enough Time? I see MMM for FIRE, but I'm looking for something time related. I suppose something like Efficiency Is Everything but more extreme like MMM, but for time. Maybe I just need to save a bit more and retire. I just love my job and having coworkers, I don't want to give up the 40hr/week job.
tayo42 5y ago
Arm chair psychologist for a second, but this sounds like issues with self control and commitment. Plently of outdoorsy people exist and do interesting things without throwing everything a way with reckless spending.
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mjfl 5y ago
I couldn't relate less to this person.
Vadoff 5y ago
>But these are just the flashes through the fog, clues to an unpleasant memory I’ve blocked out. Because when I think too hard about the truth, it hurts my head: I have no idea where all my money went. Just look at your bank account and credit card statements? First step in managing your money, is evaluating how you're spending it.
xiphias2 5y ago
,,What if there was a better way? What if we could normalize using rich-people tactics to continue living happily as if we were broke?'' I'm rich _because_ I lived my 20s like I was broke. I went to the other extreme than the author, which is also unhealthy though, finding the balance is just hard.

77 points by WuTangCFO 5y ago

If you love nature leave nature alone. 1. People hike somewhere 2. A positive review is written, that attracts more people 3. Because of the increased amount of people going to certain place, a hotel and a restaurant is built. 4. Restaurant workers and hotel workers need a place to live, so they build houses. 5. Houses need a power plant, water, trash service... police stations, fire stations, healthcare. 6. Nature is now gone. 7. The guy in living next to the formerly popular outdoor spot feels like having fun in the outdoors. The cycle is repeated until all outdoor spots are gone.

stnmtn 5y ago
This is perhaps the most cynical comment I've seen. Are you seriously advocating that it's impossible to enjoy nature in a healthy way?
- 29athrowaway 5y ago
  Nature does not exist for you to "enjoy" it. Nature seeks balance by evolving creatures that have a reciprocal relationship with the environment. Every creature has a specific role. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q Humans have no predators. We are effectively an invasive species that does not seek balance with the environment and thrive at the expense of the balance that nature has created in an unsustainable manner.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

IMO problem the author had is she had too much money too early in her career and therefore didn't get thrown in the deep end with regard to using it efficiently. I'm going to assume she grew up in a fairly successful middle class household based on education and some other details in the articles so it's a pretty safe bet money wasn't something she grew up learning how to use efficiently to "level up" one's life. She's already starting from a deficit because she's a women of how society emphasizes wealth as an indicator for societal success for men more than women so she's not gonna spend her formative years having people tell her to chase the dollar. Basically her parents didn't teach her and society didn't make her teach herself so it took her 20yr to figure it out.

alisonkisk 5y ago

The answer to the headline is, of course, because almost everyone sucks at money.

stevenpetryk 5y ago
It seems as though it is increasingly hard to make sufficient money in the first place.
- tru3_power 5y ago
  Forsure getting harder to keep it !
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  I lived close to paycheck to paycheck for a few years as I was paying for my school, then my wife's school. I was one of the few to do Community college, live with parents, then when my job required moving, my gf. I didn't eat out. I didn't buy new stuff. My poor friends buy/lease new cars, Apple products, take out, alcohol at bars, etc... I still don't do this. I don't expect these people to save 30k/yr. I expect them to save 5k/yr, but they squander it. They make sufficient money, they spend it on marketed products.
WarOnPrivacy 5y ago
But here's the thing. I have $80 and need to pay $100 in bills. There aren't any money skills that can overpower math.
- falcor84 5y ago
  I think the relevant skill would be the ability to pitch this cash shortfall of yours as an investment opportunity for some other unfortunate fool
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I don’t think that’s the right way to think about it. You usually aren’t born needing to pay $100, and having $80, there are probably decisions you make that put you more or less likely to be in that situation, some obvious, some not. Sometimes you do get shit luck, but I think there are always ways to mitigate the negative consequences of bad luck, and maximize the consequences of good luck. We have a lot of control over how our lives turn out here in the US, though not complete control, and it’s worth remembering that.

pope_meat 5y ago

why people with no money so bad at having no money. probably lazy and dumb, yeah, that's it. i feel better already.

WarOnPrivacy 5y ago

I am bad with money. I’m also not abnormal. A 2017 survey by CareerBuilder found that 78 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, while a 2019 survey by Bankrate found that 60 percent of us couldn’t cover a $1,000 emergency. For most in this predicament, it has nothing to do with being bad with money. It has everything to do with their income being 80% of their essential bills.

Swizec 5y ago
> but I can tell you that there were $60 rounds of drinks purchased without a second thought and $25 cab rides to the bars. There were $1,500 ski-season cabin shares in Lake Tahoe and a $150-a-month membership at Equinox. There were multiple Starbucks lattes per day and $18 organic steak salads eaten at my desk. I don't think this is someone who can't cover essential bills with their salary. This is the trap kids fall into (my early 20's self included) when they first start making real money and it feels endless. It's not endless. It's very easy to fritter away.
- saurik 5y ago
  WarOnPrivacy wasn't saying that this person was someone who wasn't making much money; they were replying to the rational for this not being "abnormal": most people who live paycheck-to-paycheck--not this person, but most people--simply don't make much money... they aren't "bad with it".
- lhorie 5y ago
  It's interesting hearing others' experiences on this. Among my circles, my friends would sometimes comment on how weird it was to come to terms with the fact they were no longer dirt poor college students and how now they had disposable income and how guilty they'd feel spending money due to the frugal student mentality. To this day, I still don't feel the urge to buy things on impulse, or because peers have them or do trendy things.
  - Swizec 5y ago
    When it happened to me I went from a lifetime of being poor (not just college student poor, family poor before college even) to making 3x the national median salary in the span of 2 years. Yeah it was a little intoxicating and I def overdid it. No regrets tho. Moving to America (sfba) quickly fixed that. Now I’m back to being pretty frugal (but not too much) and investing in asset building. Turns out that’s more rewarding. But your early to mid 20’s are a great time to go a little crazy if you can. It will never again feel the same. You have little responsibility and lots of time to catch up later.

jxramos 5y ago

In a 2014 study, he found that 58 percent of affluent people are first-generation wealth, not trust-fund babies. I've heard that idea before, that the notion of inherited unearned wealth as explaining the bulk of the wealthy population is actually misleading. Same thing was said in that old book The Millionaire Mind I think.

munificent 5y ago
I think people is the wrong metric for this statistic. A large number of just-barely-affluent nouveau riche could drown out a handful of old money robber barons that own the world. The much more interesting statistic would slice it by dollar: What percentage of dollars are owned by first-generation wealthy versus old money?
- fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
  Really depends on what you’re trying to use the number for. If you’re trying to study wealthy people, it makes sense to use stats that are counting people filtered by wealth. If you are trying to study wealth itself, it makes sense to use stats that are weighted by dollar.
  - jxramos 5y ago
    that's what I figured, the people metric seems more pertinent to ideas of economic mobility across the population as a whole, we could think of a population percentile, like say jumping into the notorious 1%. But the other metric is interesting too, something like an age x wealth product, the longer the wealth was held the higher the score, and the more wealth held the higher the score too. One could imagine like an area under net worth curve and create a histogram with decades of time as buckets, say across a 300 year span maybe?
- wcarss 5y ago
  I spent the last 25 minutes trying to find out exactly that, and have so far come up nearly blank, but I agree that dollars inherited is a way more useful question. The meme of "a high percent of people who are millionaires are first-generation millionaires" is pervasive. Googling this returns mostly investment scheme websites and CNBC/USA Today/etc clickbait quoting "The Millionaire Next Door", and talking about how "If They Did It, You Can Do It Too!" -- it's like something straight out of lies, damned lies, and statistics.

allenu 5y ago

I'm not a particularly outdoorsy person, but being a frugal person, I have noticed that a lot of outdoors activities really do "require" an investment. Equipment can be expensive, as can ski passes or trips. Once you hang out in those circles (as the article states), you don't want to have cheap gear. It's as with anything, I suppose, but with gear, there's always more and better things, which never interested me. I remember talking with coworkers about bikes and one was recommend bikes to another coworker who wanted to get into cycling and he was recommending some pricey options. I remember thinking that if you want to get into cycling, you really don't have to spend a lot. Cycling shouldn't be about the gear itself. It should be about, well, getting out there and cycling. But for some people, half the fun is spending money on the toys. That same coworker admitted a few weeks later that he bought himself yet another bike, one that was several thousand dollars. Meanwhile I was stressing with my $1200 bike purchase as that felt like a lot of money.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Also, outdoorsy stuff is where many rich kids spend their money. So there are poor models to follow wrt money.
catillac 5y ago
It’s true that a lot of things take an investment but I don’t think you should be so prescriptive about some things like when you say: “Cycling shouldn't be about the gear itself. It should be about, well, getting out there and cycling.” People can of course enjoy a hobby or activity and get something out of it that’s not the thing you think they should be getting out of it and that’s awesome. It’s okay if the fun is in spending the money, and it’s okay if you have a $1200 bike and don’t care about that stuff. They’re both equal ways of approaching any given hobby.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  True, but if you regularly spend $1200 on a bike you don’t need maybe you shouldn’t complain about not having money?
munk-a 5y ago

Havoc 5y ago

>I have no idea where all my money went. I can so relate to that. Fortunately my natural instincts appear to leave me with cash at end of month which I move to savings...but that is about the extent of my control over things.

Swizec 5y ago
Everything changed for me when I moved money to savings automatically on every paycheck. You kinda just figure out how to fit your life into what’s left.
deleted 5y ago
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the_only_law 5y ago
I’m very bad with money and it tends to hit hard with depressive cycles. I end up just buying all kinds of shit I think I can afford (and in some cases can), but then go overboard on other things and running out of money once can turn into a really bad cycle. Trying to figure my way out of probably the worst I’ve ever gotten myself and it’s tough because there’s just no way to get rid of the heaviest hitting expenses. It’s somewhat embarrassing though, because I make more money than a good many of my casual acquaintances, but am likely significantly more broke. The last time this happened to me, my solution was to take even more debt to move to a new job that doubled my salary. I had a plan to be debt free in ~2 years, but that kinda fell apart with COVID. I suppose I could try and do that again, but I’m not in a position professionally to take a better job.
Vadoff 5y ago
You have bank account and credit card statements right? Maybe take a look and see where the money is going?
- Havoc 5y ago
  Quickly becomes a chore when there are lots of cards accounts and platforms involved. Considered binding it together via api but different countries so it’s all a bit messy

cletus 5y ago

I'm a firm believer that everyone should have a skill they can use to support themselves. It doesn't really matter what that is as long as you can't be replaced easily by unskilled labour. So take the author. She wants to be a ski bum while she's young. I respect that, actually. So the question such people should be asking is: what skill could I gain that is compatible with that? Example: being a qualified paramedic/EMT. Why? Ski patrols need them. People get hurt skiing. They always will. I respect the ability to live frugally (as the author did), especially in order to gain experiences. After all, you won't be young forever. You won't be here forever. How much happier will it make you to live in a small house in a sea of suburbia as a billing code administrator for a health insurance company? But hey, at least you have a 401k and dental. The author has several false dichotomies in here (IMHO). For example, comparing the "dirtbag" lifestyle to the "rich". There's a whole lot in between there. Also, living paycheck to paycheck is stressful. So is not having options (eg decision fatigue [1]). Being a journalist is perhaps not the best choice. The people people live one paycheck away from being destitute varies but usually it's not because they want to be a ski bum. It's generally because they've taken on long term expenses they can barely afford. It's because they've convinced themselves they need to provide certain things for their children and families, often because they didn't have it themselves growing up. Things like paying for their college, living in a massive house and so on. In providing these material things I so often see people who don't see their children and bring negativity home because they hate their lives. What good does that do anyone? So many of the decisions people make I find is to have what other people think they should have. Family, neighbours, friends. I can't help but feel that the author still misses the point. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fr...

0xB31B1B 5y ago
>> So the question such people should be asking is: what skill could I gain that is compatible with that? Having seen people go through this thought process, SOO many get it wrong. If you want to ski all the time, you shouldn't be an EMT because money season for those gigs in ski town is the winter. You should find a seasonal job where money season is opposite of ski season. Carpentry/home building is a natural fit, money season is summer not winter, and can pay well enough to work half the year and ski half the year. Another popular gig for ski bums is professional fishing. You can make enough money in a few months fishing in the spring/summer to spend the rest of the time skiing.

monoideism 5y ago

> How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? How was I ever going to afford a kid’s college fund? Uh, lady, you’re 37 years old. If you seriously want a kid, you need to approach finding a spouse with the same seriousness and intention you (admirably) now approach finances. Otherwise, it ain’t gonna happen. But I guess that’s another article.

kuhzaam 5y ago
Plenty of people adopt
- monoideism 5y ago
  I had my first kid at age 34, and part of my deeply regrets not going sooner (wife is much younger). I had some serious health issues by 45, which impeded by ability to raise my kids the way I wanted. Adopting in 40s? Will the parent even still be alive when the kid graduates college? With good luck, genes, and good diet/exercise, yes. Otherwise, likely not.
  - Cola 5y ago
    Life expectancy for a 40 year old in the US is ~80. It is very likely that with an average lifestyle the parents will be around after the child has graduated college.
    - monoideism 5y ago
      Yes, that would be: 50%: some combo of good luck, genes, diet, exercise 50%: some combo of bad luck, genes, diet, exercise
  - valzam 5y ago
    Unless you live in bad parts of Africa I suspect living to 65 is not an unreasonable goal....
  - Vaslo 5y ago
    They often don’t even let you adopt at that age. I knew some 40+ yo families that adopted overseas due to age restrictions. One family adopted from China and one from Eastern Europe.

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rockclimber 5y ago

Why people suck at money? Due to socialist brainwashing in the university.

neither_color 5y ago

After years of living for the moment and YOLOing, author felt bad because she was in her 30s and didnt have wealth, then her parents gave her a large lump sum of money and she was able to apply things she learned from financial management books. The end.

rhexs 5y ago
I can’t wait until I can move into a “retired millionaire’s” house at below market rent when I run into tough times. What an inspiring article.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Read between the lines there. She describes him the way people describe their significant others and not the way people generally describe mentors and/or business partners. People don't generally know their landlords well enough to get an understanding of the details of their business and landlords don't tend to rent stuff out at highly discounted rates without very specific business reasons or emotional attachment.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    Yep. Economics work differently for women because of the asymmetry in the market for sex. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit of a taboo.
mcavoybn 5y ago
Yeah I was waiting for the point in this article where it became about "outdoorsy types" and not the author but it never happened. I'd be embarrassed too, mismanaging money and relying on my parents support at 34 years old. I guess the author was just so embarrassed that she published this article about it. Great job with the antagonizing, clickbait title though. I'm guessing "My Tone-deaf Autobiography about How Irresponsible I am" was thrown out.
- exporectomy 5y ago

jaimex2 5y ago

It's all about finding a balance. I'm outdoorsy and have more money than I know what to do with. Keep the career, keep investing and keep exploring. You don't need to quit your job, just make sure its one the does allow flexibility. If its just not working out you may need to suck it up to get a decent job title that will let you jump across to a company that allows you more flexibility. A 2-5 year endeavour but definitely possible. Outdoorsy gear is expensive, no. Overpriced. Don't buy new. Seriously learn to DIY a bit and repair things. It's easier than you think and a source of accomplishment comes with it. Finally you don't need years off. Long breaks scattered is much better. If you found the right job you'll actually miss it while away, then miss going outdoors while on the job. Absence should make the heart grow fonder for either part of your life.

dougmwne 5y ago

Ignore the click-bait title. This is one woman's coming of age story as she learns to plan for her future; well written and with good self-understanding.

deregulateMed 5y ago

Anyone have money but not enough Time? I see MMM for FIRE, but I'm looking for something time related. I suppose something like Efficiency Is Everything but more extreme like MMM, but for time. Maybe I just need to save a bit more and retire. I just love my job and having coworkers, I don't want to give up the 40hr/week job.

tayo42 5y ago

Arm chair psychologist for a second, but this sounds like issues with self control and commitment. Plently of outdoorsy people exist and do interesting things without throwing everything a way with reckless spending.

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mjfl 5y ago

I couldn't relate less to this person.

Vadoff 5y ago

>But these are just the flashes through the fog, clues to an unpleasant memory I’ve blocked out. Because when I think too hard about the truth, it hurts my head: I have no idea where all my money went. Just look at your bank account and credit card statements? First step in managing your money, is evaluating how you're spending it.

xiphias2 5y ago

,,What if there was a better way? What if we could normalize using rich-people tactics to continue living happily as if we were broke?'' I'm rich _because_ I lived my 20s like I was broke. I went to the other extreme than the author, which is also unhealthy though, finding the balance is just hard.