11 ms·

ZSA Planck EZ: A Powerful, Backlit, Open-Source, 40% Mechanical Keyboard

104 points by mathgenius 5y ago

kryptn 5y ago
I've had one of these for nearly a couple years now and I absolutely love it. I ended up getting a second so I could have one at work and home and not have to move either. After I got the second I had the issue of keeping the two firmwares in sync, so to solve that I wrote a github action[1] to build the firmware and a quick Nim app[2] to pull it down & flash it, although it turns out I haven't felt the need to really change the key map after I settled on something. I wish I could get a good laptop with an ortholinear layout, it's just that much more comfortable for me. Your hands will kind of torque when typing on a regular keyboard layout after getting used to an ortho. [1] https://github.com/kryptn/qmk_firmware/blob/master/.github/workflows/kryptn_build.yml https://github.com/kryptn/qmk_firmware/blob/master/.github/w... This build doesn't work anymore, I actually just tried it the other day and I haven't bothered to figure out what to update but I assume the action would still work with a valid target. [2] https://github.com/kryptn/kb-sync https://github.com/kryptn/kb-sync
- ianai 5y ago
  So what’s the main sell? I see their reviewer using two hands to type in it. I thought only needing one hand to type might be the benefit.
  - kryptn 5y ago
    If you're happy with your keyboard it's likely a hard sell. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression it's meant to be used with one hand, but QMK would give you the ability to create a keymap that you could use with one hand if you wanted. Handful of reasons I like it: - I was able to maintain the pok3r navigation function layer - QMK is pretty flexible, it took little effort to type/code until I felt something could be better, then modify a keymap to make it better - The size is a bonus, it's really easy to take with you - Hotswappable switches are great, and only needing 47 of them to try out new switches makes it easy
ethanbond 5y ago
Bought one of these for travel but made it my main keyboard to force learning the smaller layout. It’s a steep upfront cost, but setting up and learning the multi-layer layouts (which you basically have to use on the Planck) is so worth it. Numbers, symbols, app switching, and window management are all on the home row and my hands are thankful. Don’t imagine it’d be comfortable for someone with broad shoulders, though!
- dv_dt 5y ago
  So does raising and lowering the layers change something visible on the keys or is it that you just have to know?
  - carlf79 5y ago
    In most cases you just have to know. There are some ortholinear keyboards with some sort of display or indicator and you could program the backlight to show your current layer. It sounds like it would be hard to get used to but a few days was all it took for me to be proficient and I type faster now than I did on a conventional keyboard.
    - dv_dt 5y ago
      Aww I was hoping there was some trick with the backlighting and multi-colored keycap transparencies
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    You just have to know. It's not a big deal. I have an Atreus, which has even fewer keys, and correspondingly makes a bit more use of layers, and I had it all into my muscle memory within 3 or 4 days.
  - mgbmtl 5y ago
    It's something you need to know. I have a Moonlander and had to print my layout on paper so that I could glance at it until I got used to it. Did a few adjustments, and eventually settled and enjoy it.
mumblemumble 5y ago
Also see the ergo planck layout: http://thedarnedestthing.com/ergo%20planck http://thedarnedestthing.com/ergo%20planck Moves the letter keys toward the outside and the enter/esc/tab/etc keys to the middle so you (theoretically) don't have to torque your wrists as much. Can't vouch for it personally (I don't have a Planck), but it's at least an interesting concept. There's also the Preonic (only available as a DIY kit AFAIK) if you'd like a row of number keys, too.
- 1MachineElf 5y ago
  As someone who started this hobby with an Atreus42, the ergo planck layout was a helpful bridge to ortholinear keyboards because it gave me the extra thumb keys to emulate what I was already familiar with.
hardwaresofton 5y ago
While note quite as cool as a 40% I've personally been very happy with a Mistel Barocco[0]. The MS Sculpt was one of the best keyboards I'd ever used before that opened my eyes to properly done ergonomics. My keyboard journey actually went like this: - keyboards not worth mentioning - MS Ergonomic 4000 - keyboards not worth mentioning - Microsoft Sculpt - Filco Majestouch 2 - Unicomp M - Mistel Barocco I have to say, the first jump to tactile keyboards was uplifting. I felt like I could touch-type more quickly with more certainty which was nice. Can't say that it's all uphill from there (not all switches are even tactile), but finding both split and tactile was great and my hands have never felt better. Also, make sure to check out wooden Filco wood rests. But it looks like they're only made in Japan (which is where I happen to be currently) -- none of the grime and all of the support of "gel" wrist rests. Some other interesting entries in the split+tactile space: - https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ - https://www.zsa.io/moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander [0]: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/d7283e95f4ffcbc7b90f2dc54d1a0468 https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/d7283e95f4ffcbc7b90f2dc5...
- randshift 5y ago
  I've been a huge fan of the Microsoft Sculpt for years. Its the only keyboard that doesn't hurt my wrists/hands hurt. Just my personal preference. I tried the Moonlander for a bit, but could never get over the learning curve (it is very very steep). It's build quality is fantastic, is amazingly customizable, but the shape didn't work with my brain/muscle memory. I went back to the Sculpt. If they ever decide to discontinue them I guess I'll need to stock up.
  - FabianCC 5y ago
    I ran through 3 MS sculpts over the years and was very happy. The function keys on the sculpt are pretty bad and so was the longevity. Had to switch out the keyboard quite frequently because the palm rest turned disgusting :D I switched to the KinesisGaming Split + Cherry MX Brown keyboard a few month ago and don't regret it so far. Sometimes I miss the tiny sculpt because it takes up less space on the desk, but I do not miss having to switch batteries :D
daggersandscars 5y ago
I suffer from wrist and finger pain when typing, sometimes to where I can't type without excruciating pain. Here are my experiences. I have the Drop version of the Planck, as well as the ErgoDox EZ, the Drop ALT, Logitech G915, two Havit low-profile gaming keyboards (TKL and full), and the AA battery Apple TKL. Previously, I had a Das (Cherry MX Brown). I have relatively big hands (4" across the knuckles, 9" base to tip) and relatively wide shoulders (20+"). I suffer from wrist and finger pain when typing. Lower-profile is better for me, in general. The best, overall, is the ErgoDox EZ, but takes up a ton of space and requires serious dedication to learn to type well on. Also, the thumb movements make this a bad keyboard for people who have thumb arthritis. The Apple is best for finger pain and typing speed but not great for wrist pain. The low profile mechanicals (Havit, Logitech) are fine. I get some finger pain and some wrist pain, but not a ton. They don't feel great to use. The Planck is the only standard key switch mechanical keyboard I can type on without hand & wrist pain. In terms of overall pain, it's second only to the ErgoDox EZ. I also retain more typing speed than the ErgoDox EZ. I find the frozen in place hand positioning better than trying to use the Drop ALT in a keyboard tray. (Edited to add thumb arthritis note.)
- pmarsh 5y ago
  Have you looked into Kinesis Advantage?
- irjustin 5y ago
  For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. I don't recommend the Ergodox EZ just as you note the thumb cluster is pretty terrible in actuality. https://shop.keyboard.io/ https://shop.keyboard.io/ Is my recommended 'out of the box' keyboard. As you also rightly point out, there's a learning curve with a move to these kinds of keyboards but since you're on an ergodox, the gap should be significantly smaller. My daily driver is a Diverge 3 (company no longer operating), but the best one so far. Close in, thumb clusters with few, easily accessible keys. The thumb can really only access 3-4 keys easily. The real one I want to go after is the Dactyl Manuform... but omg there's no nice way to get at that thing. And the cost is so high just to 'try it out'.
  - 5y ago
least 5y ago
I've never personally used a Planck, but I've got plenty of experience using alternative keyboards. With regards to ergonomics, I don't think the Planck solves really any of the issues with a standard keyboard. While the straight columns and rows might reduce some horizontal movement of your fingers when typing, the fact that it's one piece with no angle means that your wrists will be contorted, which is the same problem with a standard keyboard. Also, your fingers aren't the same length, so having ortholinear keys doesn't really account for that in any way and pinky finger keys are more difficult to access. If you're going to bother with learning how to type on an unconventional keyboard (and if you have any sort of concern for your wrist/hand health, I'd encourage you to do so), I'd suggest looking at split keyboards what have offset rows with straight columns of keys, at the minimum. ZSA actually sells the Ergodox EZ and Moonlander, both of which I'd say are better keyboards. They are of course a lot bigger than the planck, which might be problematic if you're using it on the go a lot. If you're looking for something a bit more portable, perhaps something like the atreus would be more suitable. There's a prebuilt one you can purchase from keyboardio [1] though you can find kits online to build one yourself. Gboards [2] also has some nice low profile small form factor keyboards, though the owner of Gboards is currently not accepting any new orders as she's working through the backlog of orders. There's a ton more shops that sell kits for small form factor keyboards and there is no shortage of choice for keyboards with all sorts of form factors and numbers of keys. A good place to start researching it is the ergonomic mechanical keyboards subreddit [3] and the olkb (planck) subreddit [4]. Personally, I use the Kinesis Advantage 2 [5] with a custom microcontroller designed by Michael Stapelberg [6] that allows me to run QMK [7] on it. Kinesis has announced a new fully split keyboard that doesn't have a ship date that I'm also very interested in [8]. These have concave key wells which are a bit hard to describe but once you've put your hands on one, it becomes pretty obvious the difference in just pure comfort to the hands they bring. Any keyboard with these key wells however are very large and not exactly a great portable keyboard. Still, I think the tradeoffs are well worth it. Finally, If the Advantage isn't your jam, there are open source keyboards made with key wells and are fully split like the Dactyl [9], and Dactyl Manuform [10]. Prebuilt manuforms can be found at Oh Keycaps [11] and a few other vendors. These are very geeky keyboards that will require a lot of effort on top of the effort of learning how to type, so I'd only suggest them if you're really ambitious about using alternative keyboards and getting the most out of them. A lot of the more popular mechanical keyboard communities are great for what they are, but they have kind of zeroed in on focusing on mostly aesthetics. The Mechanical Keyboards subreddit [12] is primarily glamour photos of people's keyboards and offers very little discussion in terms of ergonomics, alternative keyboard layouts, or other aspects of the hobby. Still, it's a great place to look for key switches you might like (the sound being one of the big considerations) or keycap group buys that you might be interested in. I hope that I can help get more eyes on the ergonomic keyboard community since more eyes is more interest and more interest means more innovation and better keyboards. [1] https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus [2] https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/ [5] https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ [6] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-keyboard-controller/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-... [7] https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ [8] https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058 https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058 [9] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard [10] https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform [11] https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manuform-keyboard https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manufor... [12] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/
markus_zhang 5y ago
For people who use these 47-key keyboards, how long does it take for you to be comfortable with them? Is there any type of work that is NOT suitable on these keyboards? I feel that the UP and DOWN keys are kind of strain at least in the beginning. edit Holy just checked the price and it's above $200. Why is it so expensive? It's almost at par with my second-hand laptop. I guess it's fancy but do you feel the price is justified?
- least 5y ago
  > Is there any type of work that is NOT suitable on these keyboards? I feel that the UP and DOWN keys are kind of strain at least in the beginning. I'd say situations where you need more discrete buttons that are easily accessible. Gaming comes to mind as a big one where the lack of physical keys in a situation where you need immediate access is going to be difficult. This is of course game dependent and some games can be easily accommodated. Tasks that aren't as latency-dependent will be mostly fine. > edit Holy just checked the price and it's above $200. Why is it so expensive? It's almost at par with my second-hand laptop. I guess it's fancy but do you feel the price is justified? Manufacturing relatively low volume products with injection molded parts and the need to hand assemble the keyboards is pretty expensive. You can find planck kits for cheap and if you know how to solder you could build one for under 100 dollars probably. DIY kits will usually use stacked laser-cut acrylic or 3d printed cases. The price is justified if you want one that is well made and prebuilt.
- striking 5y ago
  Hello, I use this keyboard! I had to intentionally practice for a couple of weeks before I felt really comfortable typing. When it came to typing symbols I've always been a cheater, so the shift+numrow symbols were the hardest for me to remember. Replacing the modifier switches with loud and clicky ones helped me get the feedback needed to allow me to type combinations quickly (and ZSA optionally sells a secondary pack of ten with your purchase, just enough for the mods/space/enter/esc). The arrow keys should be familiar to anyone seriously using vim / vim bindings, as they're in the same hjkl configuration. The thing made hardest with this keyboard is actually video games. There are fewer buttons in the range of one hand, so I often end up remapping some buttons to my mouse if I have to. The ctrl/z/x/c keys are all pretty hard to press when your hand is on w/a/s/d. For games that fully utilize a keyboard (Space Engineers, GMod, etc) you will find yourself making layers specific to those games. This all being said, I don't have the largest hands and I enjoy that my wrists basically don't have to move around. The customization is a treat. I actually take it with me to work and back home, because it's so small and easy to move that I don't mind it. Also I made a numpad layer that I'm really happy with, and that only works on an ortholinear. The price tag is serious, but the keyboard is hand assembled by well paid workers in Taiwan. For the amount of time I spend typing on my keyboard (at least 8 hours a day, every day) I'm perfectly happy to dispense with some money for a solid product.
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yewenjie 5y ago
Is there a Dactyl Manuform build with individual LEDs?
- smrq 5y ago
  Those are usually hand-wired (otherwise you need some sort of flex PCB design, which I have seen but it's uncommon) and that makes individual LEDs a huge pain at best.
  - rgoulter 5y ago
    I think the ones which have fancy RGB LEDs will use a 1U-sized PCB to allow for lighting.
vehemenz 5y ago
I think it's great that interesting layouts are still being designed, and that the mechanical keyboard community has become open to non-ANSI layouts. Hopefully we will see more of that, and maybe someday the Logitechs of the world will make novel layouts more mainstream. Until then, an ortholinear + 47 keys is a tough sell. Even for serious keyboard people. Let's consider a 65% board (~68 keys): 1. is almost as portable 2. still functions more or less as a regular keyboard 3. layout matches laptops 4. layout doesn't need to be learned And finally, as cool as the Plank EZ is, it's clearly targeting "power users", the exact users who have 20+ years typing on ANSI/ISO keyboards. The people who know shortcuts for everything and have Vim muscle memory. The same type of people who tried Dvorak for a month because it was cool but gave up because there was too much mental overhead for doing basic tasks. Layers for standard keys? No media keys? I got stuff to do, man.
war1025 5y ago
I am not up on niche keyboard lingo and assumed this was advertising a keyboard where 40% of the keys were mechanical. Really was wondering what advantage that would have since mechanical keyboard people seem very opinionated about the inferiority of all other key styles.
rpmisms 5y ago
Would highly recommend the Planck for anyone who would like to improve their touch-typing. A grid is a lot easier to get a feel for than a staggered layout, and the clicky sensation is just a bonus at that point.
rcarmo 5y ago
This is something I’ve been considering getting, but the lack of Bluetooth is a blocker. I have no use for the RGB stuff (and maybe not even backlighting, since I seldom look at any keyboard), but neither will I go back to having cables across my desk…
vbsteven 5y ago
I wonder how people using a keyboard like this handle numbers and function keys? My daily keyboard is an OCZ Vortex 3 which has a dedicated numbers row and above that a row with ESC/F1-12. I cannot imagine using a keyboard that does not have these two rows. Mainly because my IDE/Vim/Tmux configs are heavily customized to use F1-F12 and <C-$num> for common actions.
- rgoulter 5y ago
  Small keyboards like these trade-off hand movement, and instead use layering and other tricks; you'll end up customising the layout you use with it to suit your use case.
- creakingstairs 5y ago
  I've been using Planck for about a year now. F1 is combination of two keys: lower(special modifier key left to the space) and a. I usually have no problem with this, and kinda prefer this now as my fingers don't have to move away from the homerow. I do have a little bit of trouble when I have to press multiple modifier keys and a function key though.
- yreg 5y ago
  The theory with these short keyboards is that for a poweruser who remembers all the combos it's easier / quicker / more comfortable to press a combination of keys at their fingertips rather than to move their hand over a dedicated key (and back). It suits some people.
- bikingbismuth 5y ago
  I heavily use QMK to change how my keyboards work. I keep most of the normal upper and lower layers, but I also have a layer with a numpad and macros (such as a key that inputs my email). It is still a bit of a learning curve, and I find myself having to think for a second when I am using things like screen or tmux.
- JunoNgx 5y ago
  The function keys are behind a layer. Because I can arrange those keys exactly in the way I want, my proficiency with the numbers and F-keys has skyrocketed since I switched to a standard Planck.
the8472 5y ago
> Floating keyswitches over a thin base [...] Fits in your pocket 28mm isn't all that thin. kailh makes low profile switches with which you can easily get 20mm keyboards.
Loic 5y ago
For the past 15 years or so, I have been using a TypeMatrix keyboard (2030 USB, Dvorak). For me, the best part of the keyboard is the ortholinear layout. This is really a great feeling to just extend/retract a finger to reach to above below row. It has dedicated function row (which for debugging is for me a must have). I would recommend anybody with pain to try an ortholinear layout, be it from company X or Y, I really think it is a massive improvement against the standard non symmetric layout.
the_third_wave 5y ago
How history repeats itself... The original Commodore PET [1] had such a keyboard layout [2,3], this was seen as a disadvantage compared to rivals like the Apple-II and the TRS80 which sported "real" (staggered) keyboards. The oddball layout mostly was the result of Commodore starting out as a company making calculators where the square layout is the norm. They moved to a "real" keyboard for the next version [4]. Fast-forward a few decades and that original PET layout starts to become innovative again. Maybe one of these companies should sell a portable version of the PET keyboard with similar keycaps and colour, it would probably sell quite well. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Commodore_PET2001.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Commodor... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/PET_2001_Series-IMG_1724.JPG/800px-PET_2001_Series-IMG_1724.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/PE... [3] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/PET_Keyboard_improved.svg/800px-PET_Keyboard_improved.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/PE... [4] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pet4016.png/800px-Pet4016.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pe...
notorandit 5y ago
No digits? No party! That looks more like a data entry keyboard. A programmer/sysadmin needs readily available punctuations. Yes, no party!
- justinsaccount 5y ago
  on a "normal" keyboard you press shift+1 to type a !. on my planck layout I press a layer key under my thumb+q. All the chars like {} [] | \ are on my home row. It doesn't get any more readily available.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  On a compact keyboard, the special characters are no further away than capital letters, and often easier to get at than they are on a standard keyboard. For example, on a standard US layout, } and | require both pressing a modifier key (shift) and a stretch. On my compact keyboard, they do still require a modifier key (I call it "sym" on my keyboard), but there's no stretching - they're all no more than 1 key away from my left hand home row. For digits, it's the other way around. On a standard keyboard, they require a stretch but no modifier key. On my compact, they require a modifier key but no stretch. For my part, I find it to be a net positive because the modifier key puts me on a layer where I've got essentially a numpad under my right hand, which allows me to key in numbers with the speed and accuracy of a numpad, without having to pick up my hand and move it.
elliebike 5y ago
I've been using my own Planck* for a while now, and I absolutely love it! It's actually my second - I've pretty much exclusively used Plancks for almost 5 years. Strongly recommend giving them a go, even though the layers will feel very alien to begin with. I've also used an ErgoDox EZ for a while, and I actually prefer the Planck. *: https://elliehuxtable.com/my-planck-keyboard/ https://elliehuxtable.com/my-planck-keyboard/
jiehong 5y ago
Maybe a cheap alternative is the X-Bows keyboard[0]. Although, I'm still having issues with the Alt-Gr position and the PrintScreen key. [0]: https://x-bows.com/ https://x-bows.com/
Accacin 5y ago
There seems to be a lot of people with wrist issues here, so I thought I'd ask. I get a lot of pain in my right shoulder and right wrist after using a keyboard for a while. I've noticed it more when I have to use my little finger (e.g. curly bracers, etc.) I'm currently trying out a split keyboard (freestyle 2, wanted something cheaper to see if the split helped), and it definitely has. I went back to my Ducky 5 for a few days and felt it. I'm currently learning to type Dvorak, which feels nice but I'm not using it enough so far to know if it's an improvement. I'm really liking the look of the Kinesis Advantage, has anyone with similar wrist pain noticed that it made a difference?
- eli 5y ago
  Just the right side? Are you sure it isn’t mouse/trackpad causing the trouble?
  - baylessj 5y ago
    That sounds like a likely pain point here to me too - I've settled on using a Logitech MX Ergo trackball sitting between the two halves of my split keyboard. No more stretching to move the mouse!
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    I've experienced some such issues, too. And indeed, I think it was mouse related, but maybe not so much the mouse itself as the fact that it was too far out. I've switched to more compact keyboards (a MS sculpt ergonomic) and it went away.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    I've had good luck with switching the mouse between the left and right hands. It takes a few weeks to get used to, but helps a lot with spreading the strain a bit more evenly between the two hands.
- dathinab 5y ago
  I had that too when I switched from a 14" ThinkPad to a 13" XPS and happened to use a chair which was slightly low compared to my desk. Switching to using a external keyboard fixed that. But I also happen to hardly use my pinky finger (which turned out to be somewhat of a problem when I switched to a split keyboard which works best with 10 finker/touch typing). On reason for not using the pinky finger is that it's noticeable shorter to the point that the "home row" of my pinky finger is one row below that of my other fingers...
cutthegrass2 5y ago
I moved over to the Kinesis Advantage (LF model) because I was concerned about developing hand/wrist issues, not because I had any currently manifesting, or so I thought. Whilst I lost a few hairs during the adjustment period, I didn't realise how comfortable a keyboard (and typing on it) could feel, to the extent that I wonder whether I had wrist issues previously but as the onset was so slow I didn't really notice them.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  I bought one recently too. Not quite used to it 100% but I am seriously digging it. I get pain in my right hand from typing in particular symbols like {},[],\ etc. that are commonly used in programming and rely way too much on my right pinky. I've mapped them on to keys that are easier to hit on the keypad layer and made that super easy to toggle into. It's a game changer. I also get a lot of shoulder pain from using a standard keyboard but I'd already resolved that with a split board. I just wish they were cheaper!
  - cutthegrass2 5y ago
    Incidentally, I also found it more comfortable to switch over to a trackball style mouse - Logitech MX Ergo at the moment, but keen to try something even more vertical.
  - blumomo 5y ago
    I suffer from the same problem on the Kinsesis Advantage2 LF. Can you please share your recipe how you've mapped these symbols to the keypad layer and how do you easily access them (the blue "keypad" activation key is hard to reach and requires to toggle mode)?
    - salamandersauce 5y ago
      Sure! If you use Windows you can do it with a GUI in the SmartSet software that's on the drive of the keyboard itself. You can access that by hitting "progm+F1" which will mount the drive. If you don't have Windows you can do it easily in a text file in the "active" folder of the drive. You can have multiply qwerty and dvorak layouts. qwerty.txt is the default qwerty layout which I edited. I set "delete" to be keypad shift which shifts (but not toggle) into the keypad layer. This can be done in qwerty.txt file by adding the lines: "[delete]>[kpshft]" and "[kp-delete]>[kpshft]" with no quotes. Then to set ( & ) on the C and V keys in the keypad layer for example you create a 1 key macro basically like this: {kp-c}>{-lshift}{9}{+lshift} {kp-v}>{-lshift}{0}{+lshift} kp keys are keys in the keypad layer. Some keys like [] have special names so they are done like this: [kp-F]>[cbrack] [kp-D]>[obrack] You can find more how to do this in the manual. Xahlee also has a good tutorial. http://xahlee.info/kbd/kinesis_keyboard_howto.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/kinesis_keyboard_howto.html
sethammons 5y ago
My split ergonomic daily driver is a cloudnine - near identical to the microsoft ergo 4000. Near zero ramp up time, and backlit too
bjoli 5y ago
Now, 40% is nice and all that. But are there any modern 122 key keyboards?
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  There's this Model F inspired model, if that's the sort of thing you're after: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40B5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40B5A
  - bjoli 5y ago
    That's the unicomp one. I like their "new model m", but the ones that haven't had a tooling update are not really my cup of tea, especially not compared to my F (which I got new old stock). I got tired of hauling it along when I moved, so I sold it for a minor fortune. I haven't really regretted it until now, 14 years later.
    - salamandersauce 5y ago
      You can get reproduction model Fs now at modelfkeyboards.com although they don't seem to have done the 122 key.
- luma 5y ago
  Big, 100+ key keyboards have fallen out of favor with the keyboard crowd and I can't understand why. I have a desktop, I'm not carrying my keyboard with me, and I have plenty of room. Why on earth would I want to start removing keys?
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    They typically put the mouse too far over. They also just take up a lot of room. I don't personally use keys in the nav cluster or numpad on full size boards anyways because it's too much effort to move to them. Why have keys I don't use?
agbell 5y ago
I love this. One suggestion, instead of dedicated keys for ctrl, option and other modifier keys you can use 'permissive hold' in QMK to put modifier keys in your home row. Hold down F or J for F Lock, D or K for Ctrl and so on. My fingers adjusted to it really fast. Your keys can act as modifiers when held, and normal keys when pressed and it is works super well. https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/software-features/tap_hold https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/software-features/tap_hol...
- 0xdba 5y ago
  I have my ergodox ez setup like this. asdf and jkl; all have dual functions when held a/j = ctrl ; = alt a turns ijkl into arrow keys (like wsad, but I have a left handed mouse) k + j = copy, k + l = paste and so on for symbols, brackets, etc. The goal is to move from the home row as little as possible. I attempted to gather statistics on most used keys when programming at work, which was mildly successful. Here's my layout, optimized for left handed mouse use: https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/JwoW9/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/JwoW9/latest/0
  - agbell 5y ago
    That is great! I think there is a lot of room for innovation with dual use keys like this.
1MachineElf 5y ago
The main reason this keyboard's keycaps are ~R1 / ~R2 is because of RGB and consequently north-facing switches. This trades a more pleasant typing experience for aesthetics. Wouldn't be my first choice over the JNAO, which is a solderable compatible alternative.
flamwenco 5y ago
Had a friend who got one of these as a joke and he ended up loving it, which in turn sent me down the 40% keyboard rabbit hole. However, rather than a pure ortholinear board like planck, I _highly_ recommend a columnar stagger board like the Reviung41[0] or the Corne[1]. Columnar stagger retains the benefits of ortho, but also accounts for the natural difference in finger lengths and I find it by far the most comfortable layout type. Full splits like the Corne are really good for ergonomics, but the Reviung41 is my favorite board because it has some of the advantages of a split, while retaining the advantages of a single piece board like the Planck. I did initially buy a ZSA Moonlander, but I highly regret the purchase. The thumb cluster is incredibly poorly designed for anyone who doesn't have freakishly giant hands, and becomes even more unusable if you prefer a steeper tenting angle, since that moves it even further away from the rest of your hand. And putting the tenting at a shallower angle to make the cluster usable, kinda defeats the whole purpose of tenting the board in the first place. If you want a split like the Moonlander, I think you're better off looking at something like the Lily58[2] or the Corne, or any of the myriad number of split keyboards with sane thumb clusters. After using a 40% board for a while, I no longer understand why people insist on bigger boards other than habit or fear of change. The smaller layout means that despite having to rely on layers to reach some keys like symbols or numbers, they're also far closer to your homerow than on a traditional board. Switching to a 40% and a trackball was one of the best decisions I've made comfort-wise, and even resolved some hand pain issues I was having because my desk is tiny. [0] https://github.com/gtips/reviung/tree/master/reviung41 https://github.com/gtips/reviung/tree/master/reviung41 [1] https://github.com/foostan/crkbd https://github.com/foostan/crkbd [2] https://github.com/kata0510/Lily58 https://github.com/kata0510/Lily58
- klysm 5y ago
  I personally don’t understand why someone would want an ortho if you’re going to 1) have to learn a new layout and 2) spend a lot of money on something custom. The ergonomics of either a columnar stagger or something like a manuform seem way better.
  - flamwenco 5y ago
    Yeah, I think ortho has benefits over row stagger, but if you're going to go through the learning curve anyway, I think going straight to columnar stagger is more beneficial. That said, I don't find it that hard to switch between ortho and columnar stagger, so it may not be a huge deal if you learn ortho first, unless you're moving to a board with incredibly aggressive pinky stagger or something. I think the one thing ortho has going for it over columnar stagger is aesthetics, which is a little silly in a discussion about ergonomics, but after a certain point, some smaller keyboards are kinda just there for fun. I have a small ortho 10 column board that is just adorable and I like using it, but it's definitely not as comfy or efficient as my reviung.
justshowpost 5y ago
Thank Lord, my Model M stash is still half full...
throwaway81523 5y ago
First thing I tried to check (it took some clicks and scrolling so I'm posting it here): default configuration costs $245. I didn't try variants.

104 points by mathgenius 5y ago

I've had one of these for nearly a couple years now and I absolutely love it. I ended up getting a second so I could have one at work and home and not have to move either. After I got the second I had the issue of keeping the two firmwares in sync, so to solve that I wrote a github action[1] to build the firmware and a quick Nim app[2] to pull it down & flash it, although it turns out I haven't felt the need to really change the key map after I settled on something. I wish I could get a good laptop with an ortholinear layout, it's just that much more comfortable for me. Your hands will kind of torque when typing on a regular keyboard layout after getting used to an ortho. [1] https://github.com/kryptn/qmk_firmware/blob/master/.github/workflows/kryptn_build.yml https://github.com/kryptn/qmk_firmware/blob/master/.github/w... This build doesn't work anymore, I actually just tried it the other day and I haven't bothered to figure out what to update but I assume the action would still work with a valid target. [2] https://github.com/kryptn/kb-sync https://github.com/kryptn/kb-sync

ianai 5y ago
So what’s the main sell? I see their reviewer using two hands to type in it. I thought only needing one hand to type might be the benefit.
- kryptn 5y ago
  If you're happy with your keyboard it's likely a hard sell. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression it's meant to be used with one hand, but QMK would give you the ability to create a keymap that you could use with one hand if you wanted. Handful of reasons I like it: - I was able to maintain the pok3r navigation function layer - QMK is pretty flexible, it took little effort to type/code until I felt something could be better, then modify a keymap to make it better - The size is a bonus, it's really easy to take with you - Hotswappable switches are great, and only needing 47 of them to try out new switches makes it easy

ethanbond 5y ago

Bought one of these for travel but made it my main keyboard to force learning the smaller layout. It’s a steep upfront cost, but setting up and learning the multi-layer layouts (which you basically have to use on the Planck) is so worth it. Numbers, symbols, app switching, and window management are all on the home row and my hands are thankful. Don’t imagine it’d be comfortable for someone with broad shoulders, though!

dv_dt 5y ago
So does raising and lowering the layers change something visible on the keys or is it that you just have to know?
- carlf79 5y ago
  In most cases you just have to know. There are some ortholinear keyboards with some sort of display or indicator and you could program the backlight to show your current layer. It sounds like it would be hard to get used to but a few days was all it took for me to be proficient and I type faster now than I did on a conventional keyboard.
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    Aww I was hoping there was some trick with the backlighting and multi-colored keycap transparencies
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  You just have to know. It's not a big deal. I have an Atreus, which has even fewer keys, and correspondingly makes a bit more use of layers, and I had it all into my muscle memory within 3 or 4 days.
- mgbmtl 5y ago
  It's something you need to know. I have a Moonlander and had to print my layout on paper so that I could glance at it until I got used to it. Did a few adjustments, and eventually settled and enjoy it.

mumblemumble 5y ago

Also see the ergo planck layout: http://thedarnedestthing.com/ergo%20planck http://thedarnedestthing.com/ergo%20planck Moves the letter keys toward the outside and the enter/esc/tab/etc keys to the middle so you (theoretically) don't have to torque your wrists as much. Can't vouch for it personally (I don't have a Planck), but it's at least an interesting concept. There's also the Preonic (only available as a DIY kit AFAIK) if you'd like a row of number keys, too.

1MachineElf 5y ago
As someone who started this hobby with an Atreus42, the ergo planck layout was a helpful bridge to ortholinear keyboards because it gave me the extra thumb keys to emulate what I was already familiar with.

hardwaresofton 5y ago

While note quite as cool as a 40% I've personally been very happy with a Mistel Barocco[0]. The MS Sculpt was one of the best keyboards I'd ever used before that opened my eyes to properly done ergonomics. My keyboard journey actually went like this: - keyboards not worth mentioning - MS Ergonomic 4000 - keyboards not worth mentioning - Microsoft Sculpt - Filco Majestouch 2 - Unicomp M - Mistel Barocco I have to say, the first jump to tactile keyboards was uplifting. I felt like I could touch-type more quickly with more certainty which was nice. Can't say that it's all uphill from there (not all switches are even tactile), but finding both split and tactile was great and my hands have never felt better. Also, make sure to check out wooden Filco wood rests. But it looks like they're only made in Japan (which is where I happen to be currently) -- none of the grime and all of the support of "gel" wrist rests. Some other interesting entries in the split+tactile space: - https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ - https://www.zsa.io/moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander [0]: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/d7283e95f4ffcbc7b90f2dc54d1a0468 https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/d7283e95f4ffcbc7b90f2dc5...

randshift 5y ago
I've been a huge fan of the Microsoft Sculpt for years. Its the only keyboard that doesn't hurt my wrists/hands hurt. Just my personal preference. I tried the Moonlander for a bit, but could never get over the learning curve (it is very very steep). It's build quality is fantastic, is amazingly customizable, but the shape didn't work with my brain/muscle memory. I went back to the Sculpt. If they ever decide to discontinue them I guess I'll need to stock up.
- FabianCC 5y ago
  I ran through 3 MS sculpts over the years and was very happy. The function keys on the sculpt are pretty bad and so was the longevity. Had to switch out the keyboard quite frequently because the palm rest turned disgusting :D I switched to the KinesisGaming Split + Cherry MX Brown keyboard a few month ago and don't regret it so far. Sometimes I miss the tiny sculpt because it takes up less space on the desk, but I do not miss having to switch batteries :D

daggersandscars 5y ago

I suffer from wrist and finger pain when typing, sometimes to where I can't type without excruciating pain. Here are my experiences. I have the Drop version of the Planck, as well as the ErgoDox EZ, the Drop ALT, Logitech G915, two Havit low-profile gaming keyboards (TKL and full), and the AA battery Apple TKL. Previously, I had a Das (Cherry MX Brown). I have relatively big hands (4" across the knuckles, 9" base to tip) and relatively wide shoulders (20+"). I suffer from wrist and finger pain when typing. Lower-profile is better for me, in general. The best, overall, is the ErgoDox EZ, but takes up a ton of space and requires serious dedication to learn to type well on. Also, the thumb movements make this a bad keyboard for people who have thumb arthritis. The Apple is best for finger pain and typing speed but not great for wrist pain. The low profile mechanicals (Havit, Logitech) are fine. I get some finger pain and some wrist pain, but not a ton. They don't feel great to use. The Planck is the only standard key switch mechanical keyboard I can type on without hand & wrist pain. In terms of overall pain, it's second only to the ErgoDox EZ. I also retain more typing speed than the ErgoDox EZ. I find the frozen in place hand positioning better than trying to use the Drop ALT in a keyboard tray. (Edited to add thumb arthritis note.)

pmarsh 5y ago
Have you looked into Kinesis Advantage?
irjustin 5y ago
For serious ergonomics, splits are the way to go. I don't recommend the Ergodox EZ just as you note the thumb cluster is pretty terrible in actuality. https://shop.keyboard.io/ https://shop.keyboard.io/ Is my recommended 'out of the box' keyboard. As you also rightly point out, there's a learning curve with a move to these kinds of keyboards but since you're on an ergodox, the gap should be significantly smaller. My daily driver is a Diverge 3 (company no longer operating), but the best one so far. Close in, thumb clusters with few, easily accessible keys. The thumb can really only access 3-4 keys easily. The real one I want to go after is the Dactyl Manuform... but omg there's no nice way to get at that thing. And the cost is so high just to 'try it out'.
- 5y ago

least 5y ago

I've never personally used a Planck, but I've got plenty of experience using alternative keyboards. With regards to ergonomics, I don't think the Planck solves really any of the issues with a standard keyboard. While the straight columns and rows might reduce some horizontal movement of your fingers when typing, the fact that it's one piece with no angle means that your wrists will be contorted, which is the same problem with a standard keyboard. Also, your fingers aren't the same length, so having ortholinear keys doesn't really account for that in any way and pinky finger keys are more difficult to access. If you're going to bother with learning how to type on an unconventional keyboard (and if you have any sort of concern for your wrist/hand health, I'd encourage you to do so), I'd suggest looking at split keyboards what have offset rows with straight columns of keys, at the minimum. ZSA actually sells the Ergodox EZ and Moonlander, both of which I'd say are better keyboards. They are of course a lot bigger than the planck, which might be problematic if you're using it on the go a lot. If you're looking for something a bit more portable, perhaps something like the atreus would be more suitable. There's a prebuilt one you can purchase from keyboardio [1] though you can find kits online to build one yourself. Gboards [2] also has some nice low profile small form factor keyboards, though the owner of Gboards is currently not accepting any new orders as she's working through the backlog of orders. There's a ton more shops that sell kits for small form factor keyboards and there is no shortage of choice for keyboards with all sorts of form factors and numbers of keys. A good place to start researching it is the ergonomic mechanical keyboards subreddit [3] and the olkb (planck) subreddit [4]. Personally, I use the Kinesis Advantage 2 [5] with a custom microcontroller designed by Michael Stapelberg [6] that allows me to run QMK [7] on it. Kinesis has announced a new fully split keyboard that doesn't have a ship date that I'm also very interested in [8]. These have concave key wells which are a bit hard to describe but once you've put your hands on one, it becomes pretty obvious the difference in just pure comfort to the hands they bring. Any keyboard with these key wells however are very large and not exactly a great portable keyboard. Still, I think the tradeoffs are well worth it. Finally, If the Advantage isn't your jam, there are open source keyboards made with key wells and are fully split like the Dactyl [9], and Dactyl Manuform [10]. Prebuilt manuforms can be found at Oh Keycaps [11] and a few other vendors. These are very geeky keyboards that will require a lot of effort on top of the effort of learning how to type, so I'd only suggest them if you're really ambitious about using alternative keyboards and getting the most out of them. A lot of the more popular mechanical keyboard communities are great for what they are, but they have kind of zeroed in on focusing on mostly aesthetics. The Mechanical Keyboards subreddit [12] is primarily glamour photos of people's keyboards and offers very little discussion in terms of ergonomics, alternative keyboard layouts, or other aspects of the hobby. Still, it's a great place to look for key switches you might like (the sound being one of the big considerations) or keycap group buys that you might be interested in. I hope that I can help get more eyes on the ergonomic keyboard community since more eyes is more interest and more interest means more innovation and better keyboards. [1] https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus [2] https://www.gboards.ca/ https://www.gboards.ca/ [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/ https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/ [5] https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ [6] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-keyboard-controller/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-... [7] https://qmk.fm/ https://qmk.fm/ [8] https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058 https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058 [9] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard [10] https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform [11] https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manuform-keyboard https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manufor... [12] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

markus_zhang 5y ago

For people who use these 47-key keyboards, how long does it take for you to be comfortable with them? Is there any type of work that is NOT suitable on these keyboards? I feel that the UP and DOWN keys are kind of strain at least in the beginning. edit Holy just checked the price and it's above $200. Why is it so expensive? It's almost at par with my second-hand laptop. I guess it's fancy but do you feel the price is justified?

least 5y ago
> Is there any type of work that is NOT suitable on these keyboards? I feel that the UP and DOWN keys are kind of strain at least in the beginning. I'd say situations where you need more discrete buttons that are easily accessible. Gaming comes to mind as a big one where the lack of physical keys in a situation where you need immediate access is going to be difficult. This is of course game dependent and some games can be easily accommodated. Tasks that aren't as latency-dependent will be mostly fine. > edit Holy just checked the price and it's above $200. Why is it so expensive? It's almost at par with my second-hand laptop. I guess it's fancy but do you feel the price is justified? Manufacturing relatively low volume products with injection molded parts and the need to hand assemble the keyboards is pretty expensive. You can find planck kits for cheap and if you know how to solder you could build one for under 100 dollars probably. DIY kits will usually use stacked laser-cut acrylic or 3d printed cases. The price is justified if you want one that is well made and prebuilt.
striking 5y ago
Hello, I use this keyboard! I had to intentionally practice for a couple of weeks before I felt really comfortable typing. When it came to typing symbols I've always been a cheater, so the shift+numrow symbols were the hardest for me to remember. Replacing the modifier switches with loud and clicky ones helped me get the feedback needed to allow me to type combinations quickly (and ZSA optionally sells a secondary pack of ten with your purchase, just enough for the mods/space/enter/esc). The arrow keys should be familiar to anyone seriously using vim / vim bindings, as they're in the same hjkl configuration. The thing made hardest with this keyboard is actually video games. There are fewer buttons in the range of one hand, so I often end up remapping some buttons to my mouse if I have to. The ctrl/z/x/c keys are all pretty hard to press when your hand is on w/a/s/d. For games that fully utilize a keyboard (Space Engineers, GMod, etc) you will find yourself making layers specific to those games. This all being said, I don't have the largest hands and I enjoy that my wrists basically don't have to move around. The customization is a treat. I actually take it with me to work and back home, because it's so small and easy to move that I don't mind it. Also I made a numpad layer that I'm really happy with, and that only works on an ortholinear. The price tag is serious, but the keyboard is hand assembled by well paid workers in Taiwan. For the amount of time I spend typing on my keyboard (at least 8 hours a day, every day) I'm perfectly happy to dispense with some money for a solid product.

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yewenjie 5y ago

Is there a Dactyl Manuform build with individual LEDs?

smrq 5y ago
Those are usually hand-wired (otherwise you need some sort of flex PCB design, which I have seen but it's uncommon) and that makes individual LEDs a huge pain at best.
- rgoulter 5y ago
  I think the ones which have fancy RGB LEDs will use a 1U-sized PCB to allow for lighting.

vehemenz 5y ago

I think it's great that interesting layouts are still being designed, and that the mechanical keyboard community has become open to non-ANSI layouts. Hopefully we will see more of that, and maybe someday the Logitechs of the world will make novel layouts more mainstream. Until then, an ortholinear + 47 keys is a tough sell. Even for serious keyboard people. Let's consider a 65% board (~68 keys): 1. is almost as portable 2. still functions more or less as a regular keyboard 3. layout matches laptops 4. layout doesn't need to be learned And finally, as cool as the Plank EZ is, it's clearly targeting "power users", the exact users who have 20+ years typing on ANSI/ISO keyboards. The people who know shortcuts for everything and have Vim muscle memory. The same type of people who tried Dvorak for a month because it was cool but gave up because there was too much mental overhead for doing basic tasks. Layers for standard keys? No media keys? I got stuff to do, man.

war1025 5y ago

I am not up on niche keyboard lingo and assumed this was advertising a keyboard where 40% of the keys were mechanical. Really was wondering what advantage that would have since mechanical keyboard people seem very opinionated about the inferiority of all other key styles.

rpmisms 5y ago

Would highly recommend the Planck for anyone who would like to improve their touch-typing. A grid is a lot easier to get a feel for than a staggered layout, and the clicky sensation is just a bonus at that point.

rcarmo 5y ago

This is something I’ve been considering getting, but the lack of Bluetooth is a blocker. I have no use for the RGB stuff (and maybe not even backlighting, since I seldom look at any keyboard), but neither will I go back to having cables across my desk…

vbsteven 5y ago

I wonder how people using a keyboard like this handle numbers and function keys? My daily keyboard is an OCZ Vortex 3 which has a dedicated numbers row and above that a row with ESC/F1-12. I cannot imagine using a keyboard that does not have these two rows. Mainly because my IDE/Vim/Tmux configs are heavily customized to use F1-F12 and <C-$num> for common actions.

rgoulter 5y ago
Small keyboards like these trade-off hand movement, and instead use layering and other tricks; you'll end up customising the layout you use with it to suit your use case.
creakingstairs 5y ago
I've been using Planck for about a year now. F1 is combination of two keys: lower(special modifier key left to the space) and a. I usually have no problem with this, and kinda prefer this now as my fingers don't have to move away from the homerow. I do have a little bit of trouble when I have to press multiple modifier keys and a function key though.
yreg 5y ago
The theory with these short keyboards is that for a poweruser who remembers all the combos it's easier / quicker / more comfortable to press a combination of keys at their fingertips rather than to move their hand over a dedicated key (and back). It suits some people.
bikingbismuth 5y ago
I heavily use QMK to change how my keyboards work. I keep most of the normal upper and lower layers, but I also have a layer with a numpad and macros (such as a key that inputs my email). It is still a bit of a learning curve, and I find myself having to think for a second when I am using things like screen or tmux.
JunoNgx 5y ago
The function keys are behind a layer. Because I can arrange those keys exactly in the way I want, my proficiency with the numbers and F-keys has skyrocketed since I switched to a standard Planck.

the8472 5y ago

> Floating keyswitches over a thin base [...] Fits in your pocket 28mm isn't all that thin. kailh makes low profile switches with which you can easily get 20mm keyboards.

Loic 5y ago

For the past 15 years or so, I have been using a TypeMatrix keyboard (2030 USB, Dvorak). For me, the best part of the keyboard is the ortholinear layout. This is really a great feeling to just extend/retract a finger to reach to above below row. It has dedicated function row (which for debugging is for me a must have). I would recommend anybody with pain to try an ortholinear layout, be it from company X or Y, I really think it is a massive improvement against the standard non symmetric layout.

the_third_wave 5y ago

How history repeats itself... The original Commodore PET [1] had such a keyboard layout [2,3], this was seen as a disadvantage compared to rivals like the Apple-II and the TRS80 which sported "real" (staggered) keyboards. The oddball layout mostly was the result of Commodore starting out as a company making calculators where the square layout is the norm. They moved to a "real" keyboard for the next version [4]. Fast-forward a few decades and that original PET layout starts to become innovative again. Maybe one of these companies should sell a portable version of the PET keyboard with similar keycaps and colour, it would probably sell quite well. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Commodore_PET2001.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Commodor... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/PET_2001_Series-IMG_1724.JPG/800px-PET_2001_Series-IMG_1724.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/PE... [3] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/PET_Keyboard_improved.svg/800px-PET_Keyboard_improved.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/PE... [4] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pet4016.png/800px-Pet4016.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Pe...

notorandit 5y ago

No digits? No party! That looks more like a data entry keyboard. A programmer/sysadmin needs readily available punctuations. Yes, no party!

justinsaccount 5y ago
on a "normal" keyboard you press shift+1 to type a !. on my planck layout I press a layer key under my thumb+q. All the chars like {} [] | \ are on my home row. It doesn't get any more readily available.
mumblemumble 5y ago
On a compact keyboard, the special characters are no further away than capital letters, and often easier to get at than they are on a standard keyboard. For example, on a standard US layout, } and | require both pressing a modifier key (shift) and a stretch. On my compact keyboard, they do still require a modifier key (I call it "sym" on my keyboard), but there's no stretching - they're all no more than 1 key away from my left hand home row. For digits, it's the other way around. On a standard keyboard, they require a stretch but no modifier key. On my compact, they require a modifier key but no stretch. For my part, I find it to be a net positive because the modifier key puts me on a layer where I've got essentially a numpad under my right hand, which allows me to key in numbers with the speed and accuracy of a numpad, without having to pick up my hand and move it.

elliebike 5y ago

I've been using my own Planck* for a while now, and I absolutely love it! It's actually my second - I've pretty much exclusively used Plancks for almost 5 years. Strongly recommend giving them a go, even though the layers will feel very alien to begin with. I've also used an ErgoDox EZ for a while, and I actually prefer the Planck. *: https://elliehuxtable.com/my-planck-keyboard/ https://elliehuxtable.com/my-planck-keyboard/

jiehong 5y ago

Maybe a cheap alternative is the X-Bows keyboard[0]. Although, I'm still having issues with the Alt-Gr position and the PrintScreen key. [0]: https://x-bows.com/ https://x-bows.com/

Accacin 5y ago

There seems to be a lot of people with wrist issues here, so I thought I'd ask. I get a lot of pain in my right shoulder and right wrist after using a keyboard for a while. I've noticed it more when I have to use my little finger (e.g. curly bracers, etc.) I'm currently trying out a split keyboard (freestyle 2, wanted something cheaper to see if the split helped), and it definitely has. I went back to my Ducky 5 for a few days and felt it. I'm currently learning to type Dvorak, which feels nice but I'm not using it enough so far to know if it's an improvement. I'm really liking the look of the Kinesis Advantage, has anyone with similar wrist pain noticed that it made a difference?

eli 5y ago
Just the right side? Are you sure it isn’t mouse/trackpad causing the trouble?
- baylessj 5y ago
  That sounds like a likely pain point here to me too - I've settled on using a Logitech MX Ergo trackball sitting between the two halves of my split keyboard. No more stretching to move the mouse!
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I've experienced some such issues, too. And indeed, I think it was mouse related, but maybe not so much the mouse itself as the fact that it was too far out. I've switched to more compact keyboards (a MS sculpt ergonomic) and it went away.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  I've had good luck with switching the mouse between the left and right hands. It takes a few weeks to get used to, but helps a lot with spreading the strain a bit more evenly between the two hands.
dathinab 5y ago
I had that too when I switched from a 14" ThinkPad to a 13" XPS and happened to use a chair which was slightly low compared to my desk. Switching to using a external keyboard fixed that. But I also happen to hardly use my pinky finger (which turned out to be somewhat of a problem when I switched to a split keyboard which works best with 10 finker/touch typing). On reason for not using the pinky finger is that it's noticeable shorter to the point that the "home row" of my pinky finger is one row below that of my other fingers...

cutthegrass2 5y ago

I moved over to the Kinesis Advantage (LF model) because I was concerned about developing hand/wrist issues, not because I had any currently manifesting, or so I thought. Whilst I lost a few hairs during the adjustment period, I didn't realise how comfortable a keyboard (and typing on it) could feel, to the extent that I wonder whether I had wrist issues previously but as the onset was so slow I didn't really notice them.

salamandersauce 5y ago
I bought one recently too. Not quite used to it 100% but I am seriously digging it. I get pain in my right hand from typing in particular symbols like {},[],\ etc. that are commonly used in programming and rely way too much on my right pinky. I've mapped them on to keys that are easier to hit on the keypad layer and made that super easy to toggle into. It's a game changer. I also get a lot of shoulder pain from using a standard keyboard but I'd already resolved that with a split board. I just wish they were cheaper!
- cutthegrass2 5y ago
  Incidentally, I also found it more comfortable to switch over to a trackball style mouse - Logitech MX Ergo at the moment, but keen to try something even more vertical.
- blumomo 5y ago
  I suffer from the same problem on the Kinsesis Advantage2 LF. Can you please share your recipe how you've mapped these symbols to the keypad layer and how do you easily access them (the blue "keypad" activation key is hard to reach and requires to toggle mode)?
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    Sure! If you use Windows you can do it with a GUI in the SmartSet software that's on the drive of the keyboard itself. You can access that by hitting "progm+F1" which will mount the drive. If you don't have Windows you can do it easily in a text file in the "active" folder of the drive. You can have multiply qwerty and dvorak layouts. qwerty.txt is the default qwerty layout which I edited. I set "delete" to be keypad shift which shifts (but not toggle) into the keypad layer. This can be done in qwerty.txt file by adding the lines: "[delete]>[kpshft]" and "[kp-delete]>[kpshft]" with no quotes. Then to set ( & ) on the C and V keys in the keypad layer for example you create a 1 key macro basically like this: {kp-c}>{-lshift}{9}{+lshift} {kp-v}>{-lshift}{0}{+lshift} kp keys are keys in the keypad layer. Some keys like [] have special names so they are done like this: [kp-F]>[cbrack] [kp-D]>[obrack] You can find more how to do this in the manual. Xahlee also has a good tutorial. http://xahlee.info/kbd/kinesis_keyboard_howto.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/kinesis_keyboard_howto.html

sethammons 5y ago

My split ergonomic daily driver is a cloudnine - near identical to the microsoft ergo 4000. Near zero ramp up time, and backlit too

bjoli 5y ago

Now, 40% is nice and all that. But are there any modern 122 key keyboards?

mumblemumble 5y ago
There's this Model F inspired model, if that's the sort of thing you're after: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40B5A https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40B5A
- bjoli 5y ago
  That's the unicomp one. I like their "new model m", but the ones that haven't had a tooling update are not really my cup of tea, especially not compared to my F (which I got new old stock). I got tired of hauling it along when I moved, so I sold it for a minor fortune. I haven't really regretted it until now, 14 years later.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    You can get reproduction model Fs now at modelfkeyboards.com although they don't seem to have done the 122 key.
luma 5y ago
Big, 100+ key keyboards have fallen out of favor with the keyboard crowd and I can't understand why. I have a desktop, I'm not carrying my keyboard with me, and I have plenty of room. Why on earth would I want to start removing keys?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  They typically put the mouse too far over. They also just take up a lot of room. I don't personally use keys in the nav cluster or numpad on full size boards anyways because it's too much effort to move to them. Why have keys I don't use?

agbell 5y ago

I love this. One suggestion, instead of dedicated keys for ctrl, option and other modifier keys you can use 'permissive hold' in QMK to put modifier keys in your home row. Hold down F or J for F Lock, D or K for Ctrl and so on. My fingers adjusted to it really fast. Your keys can act as modifiers when held, and normal keys when pressed and it is works super well. https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/software-features/tap_hold https://beta.docs.qmk.fm/using-qmk/software-features/tap_hol...

0xdba 5y ago
I have my ergodox ez setup like this. asdf and jkl; all have dual functions when held a/j = ctrl ; = alt a turns ijkl into arrow keys (like wsad, but I have a left handed mouse) k + j = copy, k + l = paste and so on for symbols, brackets, etc. The goal is to move from the home row as little as possible. I attempted to gather statistics on most used keys when programming at work, which was mildly successful. Here's my layout, optimized for left handed mouse use: https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/JwoW9/latest/0 https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/JwoW9/latest/0
- agbell 5y ago
  That is great! I think there is a lot of room for innovation with dual use keys like this.

1MachineElf 5y ago

The main reason this keyboard's keycaps are ~R1 / ~R2 is because of RGB and consequently north-facing switches. This trades a more pleasant typing experience for aesthetics. Wouldn't be my first choice over the JNAO, which is a solderable compatible alternative.

flamwenco 5y ago

Had a friend who got one of these as a joke and he ended up loving it, which in turn sent me down the 40% keyboard rabbit hole. However, rather than a pure ortholinear board like planck, I _highly_ recommend a columnar stagger board like the Reviung41[0] or the Corne[1]. Columnar stagger retains the benefits of ortho, but also accounts for the natural difference in finger lengths and I find it by far the most comfortable layout type. Full splits like the Corne are really good for ergonomics, but the Reviung41 is my favorite board because it has some of the advantages of a split, while retaining the advantages of a single piece board like the Planck. I did initially buy a ZSA Moonlander, but I highly regret the purchase. The thumb cluster is incredibly poorly designed for anyone who doesn't have freakishly giant hands, and becomes even more unusable if you prefer a steeper tenting angle, since that moves it even further away from the rest of your hand. And putting the tenting at a shallower angle to make the cluster usable, kinda defeats the whole purpose of tenting the board in the first place. If you want a split like the Moonlander, I think you're better off looking at something like the Lily58[2] or the Corne, or any of the myriad number of split keyboards with sane thumb clusters. After using a 40% board for a while, I no longer understand why people insist on bigger boards other than habit or fear of change. The smaller layout means that despite having to rely on layers to reach some keys like symbols or numbers, they're also far closer to your homerow than on a traditional board. Switching to a 40% and a trackball was one of the best decisions I've made comfort-wise, and even resolved some hand pain issues I was having because my desk is tiny. [0] https://github.com/gtips/reviung/tree/master/reviung41 https://github.com/gtips/reviung/tree/master/reviung41 [1] https://github.com/foostan/crkbd https://github.com/foostan/crkbd [2] https://github.com/kata0510/Lily58 https://github.com/kata0510/Lily58

klysm 5y ago
I personally don’t understand why someone would want an ortho if you’re going to 1) have to learn a new layout and 2) spend a lot of money on something custom. The ergonomics of either a columnar stagger or something like a manuform seem way better.
- flamwenco 5y ago
  Yeah, I think ortho has benefits over row stagger, but if you're going to go through the learning curve anyway, I think going straight to columnar stagger is more beneficial. That said, I don't find it that hard to switch between ortho and columnar stagger, so it may not be a huge deal if you learn ortho first, unless you're moving to a board with incredibly aggressive pinky stagger or something. I think the one thing ortho has going for it over columnar stagger is aesthetics, which is a little silly in a discussion about ergonomics, but after a certain point, some smaller keyboards are kinda just there for fun. I have a small ortho 10 column board that is just adorable and I like using it, but it's definitely not as comfy or efficient as my reviung.

justshowpost 5y ago

Thank Lord, my Model M stash is still half full...

throwaway81523 5y ago

First thing I tried to check (it took some clicks and scrolling so I'm posting it here): default configuration costs $245. I didn't try variants.