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Why is standing more tiring than walking? [audio]
- mensetmanusman 5y agoIt took over a year to get used to my standing-only desk. Now I typically get over 12 hours of standing per day, and it definitely helps with my energy level. It seems to reduce the energy barrier of going to do something (with your feet).
- bob1029 5y agoI found similar outcomes. I just did some math and I am standing up nearly 14 hours per day. I eat all my meals standing up now too. The only time I sit down is when I am playing games, driving (rare these days), or getting ready to go to bed. As mentioned by other comments in this thread, there are issues with standing completely still all day. I find myself shifting weight between my legs throughout the day, and finding occassional excuses to walk in circles or visit the whiteboard. After a while you don't even process it as some sort of inconvenience. Sitting down actually drives me nuts now. It feels "wrong" for some reason. I have no trouble getting to sleep at night though.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoAgree in regards to sitting feeling weird at some point. Work from home has been great because I can take meetings on my iPhone while walking and also do a lot of dictation…
- angrais 5y agoWhy have you decided to eat all your meals standing up? Do you have a partner or kids? What impact has this choice made on them?
- mrlinx 5y agowhat do you use in the floor?
- tkgally 5y agoI switched to a standing desk last year, a few months into work-from-home. Before I got it, I asked a friend who had been using a standing desk for advice. He suggested buying a foam mat to stand on. That seems to work well for me, too. (I work barefoot.) I find that standing when working helps me concentrate better, though I make more typing mistakes because the position of my hands is different from what I had been used to. I didn’t have serious back problems before, but my back does feel better now that I am sitting less. I don’t stand up all day; I sit down occasionally to rest my legs.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoGel floor mats for standing. ‘anti-fatigue’ mats may be a good search for example.
- audiometry 5y agoMy struggle with standing is that I feel like I cannot think very hard/concentrated when I'm standing. Has that been a problem?
- mensetmanusman 5y agoYes, it is interesting that there is a mental shift involved that took getting used to. Churchill famously worked standing up. I think making sure all the physical/mental tools are available comfortably, e.g. multiple monitors, spend a lot of time on ergo considerations (you should be tiling your head slightly down when viewing content), gel rests for wrists for typing/mouse, padded gel floor mat to reduce foot stress and force more micro-muscle adjustments in your legs. It takes getting used to, but now I can do the same sitting or standing.
- lake_vincent 5y agoThis is very interesting. I have plantar fasciitis, and I've gotten to the point where walking long distances isn't painful anymore, but standing in one place for a long time is still agony. Seems counterintuitive, but now it makes a little more sense. Long line at the grocery store? No thank you - I'll come back later.
- DantesKite 5y agoI had plantar fasciitis on both feet for a very long time. I solved it by constantly massaging my calves for about a month and a half. There are tools you can purchase on Amazon for it like the Stick, but gua sha, a spatula from your kitchen works just as well. I also switch to shoes that don't have soles since soles weaken your muscles by causing them to atrophy. Haven't had problems since. Hope you can resolve the issues.
- ed25519FUUU 5y agoI think my plantar fasciitis was inadvertently fixed by walking around my hardwood home barefoot for a year from WFH/covid. I'm almost never in shoes anymore. Initially it hurt more, then it just went away.
- matsemann 5y agoSecond working on the calves. Many massage the plantar itself, but the root cause is often tightness in the calves making the workload for the plantar f too high. A second thin on the calves is using a "strassburg sock" during night. Keeps everything stretched, if one's one of those with initial pain in the morning because it has "settled" in a non flexed state. Not sure if I agree on soles, though. Some people have feet that needs correction. Or at least that having used soles one's whole life, suddenly switching it up can lead to more harm than good. For me, finally getting a custom molded sole has solved a lot of issues I've been dealing with my whole life (wide foot, extreme arch). (most of my pf knowledge is based on me and friends getting it from running, other causes might have other characteristics)
- 5y ago
- PhantomGremlin 5y agoI ... hate ... the ... slow ... pace ... of ... information ... delivery ... via ... audio, so I have no desire to listen. But (and I really don't know about this), isn't standing the worst? When you're sitting you can put your feet up to help circulation. And walking is also good for you. So I assume that's what the article "says"? Can anyone provide a tl;dl?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- solox3 5y ago- Walking helps veins squeeze blood up against gravity. - Standing applies pressure on the same points on the feet. Walking shifts pressure from place to place. - "Moving in general is good for health" (with the implication that sitting and standing still are not moving)
- mrtweetyhack 5y agoTheory: walking cycles muscles usage which cause blood to flow through veins(valve system) while standing tends to not help blood flow as much. This results in lactic acid buildup, less O2 to site, more CO2 buildup.
- historyloop 5y agoYes, let's have whimsical music, long pauses, tangentially related side chit-chat, and re-enactment filling us on what it means "to walk" complete with walking sound effects. Gotta love 90s radio. But... it's not the 90s anymore.
- saiya-jin 5y agoHmm, I can't stand easily on same spot, my back begins to hurt as it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain straight posture. Mind you, if I keep moving I have no clue about the condition, I can hike hard for 12 hours straight for 2 weeks and be OK (well sore all over the body but not for this reason). I definitely wouldn't be able to work as some palace guard, standing straight all day. Sitting is generally OK, but I always slouch if that's the proper term, my butt is way in front of where it should be, so I have more Formula 1 position. And I can be like that for hours without feeling any pain or major discomfort. Actually sitting straight is not comfortable after some time and I always slide down. Office worker for 17 years, prior to that school 17 years of school of +-same stuff. Maybe some slight type of scoliosis that was never diagnosed, really don't know. Working out with free weights and climbing keeps me in check and can't complain much, not even during covid times when moving generally less. But if anybody has any clue/suggestion for improvement I would be eternally thankful.
- sleepydog 5y agoI have the same symptoms as you; standing still, my lower back starts to ache after 30 minutes or so, but I can walk or run for miles and my back is fine. My hamstrings are very tight from sitting all day, to the point that I cannot even bend 90 degrees at the waist with my back straight without discomfort in my hamstrings. I've assumed that tight hamstrings are the root cause to my back pain while standing, but I haven't fixed it yet. The best results I've had in the past when I was more physically active were from doing "good-morning" exercises. I think it's because you build strength in the stretched position, which is important according to various books I've read like "relax into stretch" and articles on PNF stretching. When I was doing these exercises regularly I was able to put my forhead to my knees without doing any regular stretches.
- ksaho 5y agoI am not sure if this helps, but here may be information about this issue. You can try this out and see if it helps. https://youtu.be/GX7Vz8OWwUI?t=63 https://youtu.be/GX7Vz8OWwUI?t=63 Please at least watch the a minute from the timestamp to see if this can help.
- hypertele-Xii 5y agoFor me standing still causes unpleasant tingling sensation in my feet which intensifies, eventually becoming unbearable stinging, until I move. I think it's low blood pressure causing CO2 accumulation or something?
- dmuth 5y agoNot a doctor, but I have/had similar problems, and saw a number of doctors and specialists about this. Whatever it was, it wasn't understood by medical science, but the best thing we were able to pin it down to was "muscle spasms". Over time, I found that seeing a myofascial specialist, yoga, and physical therapy (read: Apple Fitness Plus) helped. If you'd like to chat more about this topic or just pick my brain, my email is my username AT my username DOT org.
- iscrewyou 5y agoI feel this in my toes everyday but it’s only when I sit down for prolonged periods. Once I move around, it goes away.
- inlikealamb 5y agoIt makes sense when you think about the mechanics involved. Standing is constant stress in the same places. Walking is varying stress with alternating relief.
- andai 5y agoExactly! When you move the pressure is distributed.
- bottled_poe 5y agoI suspect that millions of years of evolution optimising for movement has something to do with it as well.
- inlikealamb 5y agoyes of course, it's a feedback loop
- amelius 5y agoThis is why the Segway was a failure, and any type of hoverboard will be.
- als0 5y agoWhat about electric scooters? They seem pretty popular at the moment.
- stevewodil 5y agoWhat? Hoverboards were extremely popular some years back. Nowadays, it's EUC's, electric skateboards, or scooters.
- humanistbot 5y agoThe Segway was a failure because they built up so much hype around it, but it was so pricey and the tech just wasn't there yet. Battery and motor tech has advanced so much since then. The original Segway had a max speed of 10 mph and a range of 6-10 miles. It cost $6000.
- mbg721 5y agoThe Segway was a failure because it works against the lizard-brain in a way that isn't obvious. Didn't one of the owners* die riding one off a cliff? *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Heselden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Heselden
- anonytrary 5y agoI mean you can just put a seat on a hoverboard, while playing the pedals like a piano... I think this study is not the end of hoverboards, lol. "Standing vs. sitting" is a pretty easy problem to fix when it comes to bikes, hoverboards, etc.
- reader_mode 5y agoThis is an interesting topic and I haven't considered it fully. I have a standing desk and a really good ergonomic chair and every time I need to do extended work away from home (like in a vacation rental) it reminds me how important a good setup is. What I'm now wondering about with all this talk about gravity and blood circulation - is anyone here using those 0 gravity setups where the screen is hanging above you and you are practically lying down ? It seems like it would fix all the issues, have massive health benefits in the long run - if it actually works I could justify 5k$ but I don't have a chance to try it and I haven't heard about anyone using them. I suspect HN crowd is a good place to ask - anyone has info on how effective they actually are ? What are the downsides ? Is it just the cost ? We spend 8+ hours 5+ days a week at the computer - I'm sure over a decade or two the investment would pay off if it prevents back pain, removes strain from your heart and keeps you more rested while working.
- iratewizard 5y agoI use a zero gravity. Specifically, MWE labs. Downsides were taking it apart to get it to my second floor home office. Upsides are comfort and not getting pain from working long hours. I've owned for over 2 years now. I don't use the zero gravity aspect of it a ton, though. It's still worth it in my opinion for the ability to make micro adjustments and overall ergonomics.
- knuthsat 5y agoI’m skeptical. When I lay down and not think I fall asleep. If I have to think hard and work I’m pretty sure something is keeping me awake but I’m not sure if it’s good for my health. I think similar thing happens to a degree when sitting.
- reader_mode 5y agoI don't think this is fully lying down [1], looks more like dentist chair kind of a setup. My chair can almost recline that much and it feels weird looking up but I would probably get used to it so I'm not that skeptical it would work. I just wonder if the benefits are there and if there are any drawbacks. [1] https://altwork.com/ https://altwork.com/
- SonnyTark 5y agoI know that very well from VR, I can walk for hours in real life but VR turns my legs to noodles in 1-2 hours tops.
- every 5y agoI spent a number of years behind a bar. Standing still and in place is indeed tiring. Pacing, with constant movement, is energizing in comparison. I still find pacing and walking to be relaxing even decades later...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 8bitsrule 5y agoMaybe some of this effect is posture-related ... here's some tips from a DPT: 1. Perfecting Your Posture, 2. Exercising for Better Posture 3. Standing at Work https://www.wikihow.com/Stand-Correctly https://www.wikihow.com/Stand-Correctly
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- anotherevan 5y agoPeople may find this book helpful: Deskbound: Standing Up to a Sitting World https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31683999 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31683999 Skipping over some of the rha-rha zeal there's some helpful ideas in making standing less static and more sustainable.
- NoPicklez 5y agoIn my opinion, it's because when standing we're engaging one set of muscles constantly. Whereas when walking we're contracting and extending different muscle groups in a cycle, therefore giving muscle groups short bouts of recovery.
- melomal 5y agoYup, most people have weak cores from poor posture and sitting down all the time. Standing up has to engage your core and keep it stable. Literally dealing with a pulled back because I haven't done core strength in months. The difference is incredible.
- egman_ekki 5y agoBut you need to engage core also when waking, otherwise your torso would dangle from your hips, no?
- ajuc 5y agoIt's much different when you start moving something and let it go with inertia vs when you keep it still against gravity. Compare moving your arm like a pendulum vs keeping it stretched horizontally.
- mngnt 5y agoTry standing up for a few minutes, being mindful of what your body does. You will probably find that you lean slightly from side to side or stagger very slightly, with your core having to be partly engaged all the time. Your feet are in the same spot, but your center of gravity shifts and the core is the only thing to counter that. Meanwhile, when you walk, the momentum of your upper body takes care of a lot of this, you just automatically lean forward and your feet get under you, offloading a lot of that adjusting from your core. Your center of gravity moves predictably and your feet can "plan" to get right below it in the next step you take.
- egman_ekki 5y ago
- erfgh 5y agoYour body is flexible because it needs to be able to move and assume myriads of positions. This means that it is not very good at bearing a load without moving; it has to work hard to keep those flexible muscles, tendons and ligaments still. Maybe that's why planks world records are set by people in their 60s and 70s. Because most of their flexibility has been lost due to aging.
- audiometry 5y ago>Maybe that's why planks world records are set by people in their 60s and 70s. Is this true? Very interesting if it's because they're somehow advantaged for it.
- jokoon 5y agoI've tried a standing desk at about 30 years old, not really overweight, and my ankles became slightly swollen.
- brador 5y agoBecause you stand still to type. Standing desks work because you move on your feet. You can’t move and type at the same time and so standing desks fail for programmers.
- pastrami_panda 5y agoJust as there's many ways of sitting there's many ways of standing. It's important to move around. I'd recommend starting out with placing your weight more towards the front of your foot. I imagine my foot having three zones: heel, mid/arch and front. I try to stand as much as possible on mid/arch and front but move around every few minutes to train more muscles and promote an overall more active/front leaning posture. Once you start doing this you will probably realize you have a strong tendency to stand on your heels which strains a lot of muscles and tendons imo it also promotes a less ideal posture. I'm not really qualified to give such advice though so your mileage may vary. This is just stuff I've noticed and has worked for me.
- TedShiller 5y agoIt's not, actually
- tluyben2 5y agoI have a standing desk, but I walk in place as I have noticed it feels much better doing it like that. Only standing made me hurt after a while and it also took quite a bit of movement to get the pain away. When I walk in place 8-10 hours/day, I have none of these things.