25 ms·

The vital art of talking to strangers

249 points by abhiminator 5y ago

underseacables 5y ago
Is there a non-paywall version? I can’t read the article but my gut reaction is this: talking to strangers is dangerous. https://xkcd.com/642/ https://xkcd.com/642/
- nafix 5y ago
  I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but that's a sad way to view the world.
- e40 5y ago
  That’s not the message of the cartoon at all. Quite the opposite.
- bordercases 5y ago
  Go away. Stop talking to us. We don't know you.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  "I didn't read but I will make assumptions and pass judgment" Please reconsider your behaviour on the internet; this is one reason why there's so much misinformation around.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - underseacables 5y ago
    Gosh that really made you upset didn't it.
    - borski 5y ago
      Yes, because it is no different from "didn't read the article, but I heard vaccines contain chips and so I don't want one." Point is: read the article. It makes an argument. Think about that argument, and then if you'd like, respond with derision or excitement or anything else, but get informed about the topic first. In this case, the topic is the contents of / arguments the article makes.
      - underseacables 5y ago
        Maybe you should see someone about this, there’s no reason to get so worked up over a message board.
        borski 5y ago
        Oh, I wasn’t worked up, but this type of response happens frequently on HN, so it’s annoying. Meanwhile, your comment here is rude and bears no value other than to insult me, which has no place here.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Haha this is totally just social anxiety. Both ends actually. The belief that the girl next to you on the train is thinking you’re cute and ignoring her and the belief that she’s gonna react like that. A real version of that comic would probably have her thought bubble be like “I hope the meeting at five doesn’t run over. I’ve got to go pick up that camera lens from Best Buy. And what’s traffic going to be like. Should I just get it shipped? Hmm, I wonder if it’ll make it here before the weekend. But I want an excuse to get out of the meeting. Is that too much? Maybe.” or something like that. You know, the same stuff you’re thinking. I have stranger-interactions all the time and most people are actually fairly eager for them. In fact, about the most you’ll ever see is lack of interest, which occasionally happens but will manifest as them being minimally civil. Most people don’t want discomfort anywhere in their vicinity so they won’t confront you. Like they will barely confront you if you cause them harm, they _definitely_ won’t confront you if you’re neutral.
  - bittercynic 5y ago
    I've noticed the same pattern - people are usually very polite if you address them - and it makes me more reluctant to strike up a conversation with nearby strangers. If they really don't want to interact with me they might not give me a clear signal, and I might be causing extended discomfort for someone even though they are acting like they want to continue the interaction. I'm trying to get smarter about reading social signals, but for now I just try to make sure not to corner people. I will not attempt to interact with you unless I can see that you have an easy way to get away from the interaction. Are there classes or something available for people who know they're lacking in social skills and want to get better?
    - 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
      > Are there classes or something available for people who know they're lacking in social skills and want to get better? I've looked for something like this before, and haven't really found a good option. The main things people tend to bring up are: 1) Toastmasters. This is is adult-oriented and widely available, but is largely for people who want to improve at public speaking and "leadership". 2) Social skills training. In principle this is exactly the thing you're looking for, but the field is heavily focused on working with children and adolescents; genuine resources for adults (as opposed to self-help / content marketing fluff) seem scarce.
- phpnode 5y ago
  I'm surprised to see this reaction from a sales person, isn't this a major part of your job?
  - underseacables 5y ago
    Actually it’s not, and there’s a difference between talking to strangers for business, and talking to strangers in social situations.
    - borski 5y ago
      On this, I'd agree. Plenty of salesfolks are quite introverted outside of work.
    - nimih 5y ago
      This is true. The average person on the subway or in a restaurant has no real malice or ill intent toward their fellow traveler/patron, whereas the average salesperson or business associate on the job is actively looking to hoodwink you.
- bell-cot 5y ago
  Try disabling javascript in your browser. At least in the U.S.A., that lets me read most paywalled articles linked from HN. (Yes, cool multi-media content is lost. Parent's complaint was "can't read the article".)
haspoken 5y ago
https://archive.is/DFIdE https://archive.is/DFIdE
emptyfile 5y ago
Yeah, talking to strangers is not a thing in my country. Can't say I care for it.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "talking to strangers is not a thing in my country. Can't say I care for it." What country is this and how do you ever meet new people? Are you saying people in your country don't meet strangers at bars, parties, through participation in sports, at dance clubs, or special interest clubs? Also, while you say you don't care for it, you do realize that you're talking to strangers right now, don't you?
  - upgrejd 5y ago
    Judging by his comment history it seems that he's from Croatia but Croatia doesn't fit his description so I don't know...
- graeme 5y ago
  I highly doubt this is true of any country. All countries are full of humans. Anyone making this claim has a severe sampling problem. If you personally don’t talk to people, you can be under the impression that nobody talks to people. The people that do talk to people can read signs for who wants to talk and they talk to each other. The false impression is further reinforced if you go outside the country because as a foreigner people are more likely to talk to you, offer help, etc. Your evidence would be stronger if you were a person who did care to talk to people but found that in a certain country nobody replied.
  - trompetenaccoun 5y ago
    Agreed, but to be fair people rarely mean it literally when saying something doesn't exist in their country - it was probably more in the vein of that 'it's uncommon'. There certainly are differences and in some cultures it's a lot more common that people talk to random strangers as compared to others.
  - 5y ago
renewiltord 5y ago
Perhaps the problem with social media is that it’s not social. It’s actually oratorical media. In a physically social setting, people do the thing the article quotes: they recognize that interaction with diametrically opposing viewpoints is possible if they exercise tact to eschew controversy until having built common ground. That isn’t possible at scale because there is no common ground at scale. And online, everything is at scale. You are definitely talking to everyone.
- jcims 5y ago
  Totally agree. Even without the opposition, there's a similar issue about having vulnerable conversations. I had a buddy over last night and he relayed an experience he had in NYC a few weeks ago. He was at a bar and saw this guy that just looked like he was in a bad place. He debated for a while whether or not to say anything but ultimately decided to break the ice and offer him a drink. The guy said he had to pace himself b/c he was going to be there a while. My buddy's intuition was that this guy was close to walking in front of a subway train, so he said something along the lines of 'hey I'm happy to give you your privacy but I guarantee I'm a great listener'. The guy then proceeds to say that he and his oldest son were what he called 'vocal twins'. They sounded identical to each other in timbre and phrasing and mannerisms and everything. Well, six weeks prior, his son committed suicide while away at school. Obviously devastating to him and his wife, but eventually life has to start to resume. The guy was just getting started back at work and was on a call. Meanwhile his wife had just arrived home from grocery shopping, and upon hearing him on the phone immediately starting screaming and running into the room thinking her boy was back. Talking it through, this guy and his wife decided that he would leave for a bit...but he wasn't sure how to know when it was ok to go back if his voice was going to trigger her that much. After that, my buddy and this guy proceeded to talk for another two hours about kids and life and work and I can't imagine the guy felt worse after. My buddy is a natural extrovert and 20 years of being a lawyer in NYC has tuned his social instrument to a level that's rather magnificent to behold. If you tried to repeat this scenario on Twitter or in a subreddit or here on HN, all of the non-verbal cues that started and sustained the (IMHO very intimate and vulnerable) conversation would be completely absent.
  - 5y ago
vuciv1 5y ago
You can say you don't enjoy interacting with strangers, but I realize you should realize that you're taking the time to comment on an anonymous social platform. Even if you're just reading the comments, you're listening to what strangers have to say
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  The difference is choosing to engage or closing the web page. Plus, I have no problem talking with programmers about their jobs and hobbies. Compare that to talking to a program manager who's hobbies are comic book related... I'm not sure what to talk about with them... Maybe virtue vs hedonist philosophy? (They do comic books, they are clearly hedonists)
  - KittenInABox 5y ago
    > They do comic books, they are clearly hedonists Are comics significantly more hedonistic than other media? (I'm genuinely asking; I've never been interested in comics but I've also never heard that they were all that different from other entertainment media.)
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      It could be argued that HN, news, and Reddit are less hedonist because they provide education. Although, my long term plan is to eliminate those in favor of non fiction books and personal projects. The best "pro comic book" argument I've heard is that science fiction can help you consider potential futures of humanity. This can reduce being surprised by biotechnology and AI events. This could help humanity vote better and make more ethical software. (or so the argument goes)
      - verall 5y ago
        It could be argued, but I think its a pretty weak argument. HN, Reddit, news, comics, manga, TV: its all a dopamine drip. The specifics can be impactful: a movie that changes your perspective, a great article on HN that helps you accomplish a goal better/faster/stronger. But usually you are just slamming your preferred dopamine drip. SciFi books or comics don't "help humanity vote better", they are enjoyed, the same way some people enjoy reading Reddit and HN.
munificent 5y ago
I have a hypothesis that almost all of the US's current cultural problems would be solved if once a month we all cooked and shared a meal with another randomly chosen family.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  That sounds like fun. Although I hope you are ready to meet lots of Christians and a few alcoholics every year. Just remember that the 90% doesn't like talking about their jobs. Hope you know the latest sportsball news... That being said, there's usually other commonalities to discuss.
  - war1025 5y ago
    > Although I hope you are ready to meet lots of Christians and a few alcoholics every year. Always good to lump the Christians in with the alcoholics.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      They're just jealous that christians have more fun.
    - Notanothertoo 5y ago
      I do believe the modern (us) conservative evangelical "back to basics" movement started in the 30s/40s as a response to rampant alcoholism from the great depression. Church of christ and similar denominations. They take a (claimed) "hyper" literal approach over a few key issues, like alcohol, sex, drugs, taxes, tithing, homosexuality.. Recent history was the 90s abstinence movement.. And in the last 7 or so years these have been the churches taking the brunt of the exodus and have been largely deflated, with churches across the nation dying due to lack of new young people. I would wager good money that most modern conservative US Christian families have a male alcoholic relative not too far removed. The alcoholics and Christians go together.
      - war1025 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Moodles 5y ago
For awhile Sweden had Call a Random Swede https://www.theswedishnumber.com/ https://www.theswedishnumber.com/ where if you called the number, you would literally be paired with a random Swede to talk about whatever you want.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  That. Is awesome. Sorry I missed it!
  - chenster 5y ago
    Isn't it an app for that??
    - radnor 5y ago
      https://dialup.com/ https://dialup.com/ is similar
- webo 5y ago
  Is that much different than chat rooms or Omegle?
- mudita 5y ago
  Here they call the number in the British television show QI: https://youtu.be/zUrYRdIxYp8 https://youtu.be/zUrYRdIxYp8
- culopatin 5y ago
  In the US that would end up in a lot of unwanted phone sex
taxicabjesus 5y ago
The most important thing about learning to talk to strangers is practice. Taxi driving gave me lots of new people to talk to every day. Sometimes they weren't new. I didn't remember them, but they remembered me on account of my previous efforts to get information out of them. [edit: if I was starting this today I'd be a ride share driver. But I've learned enough, and don't feel the need to drive people around again.] > Here are other ways Nightingall suggests breaking a script. I figured out where my passengers were going, "Are you going anywhere in particular, or do I get to choose?" No one hires a taxi to take them to a random location. One lady, who was with her family, said "we can go anywhere you want." Two seconds later she said, "too late, we're going to the movies." 'DRATS! That was my chance!' Thenceforth I resolved to be prepared for when people took me up on my proposal of picking their destination. One woman said we could go anywhere I wanted, as long as she got to the bus station by 10pm. We had plenty of time, so we went to the 5 & Diner for dessert. When I dropped her off at the station, my passenger said it was the best birthday she'd had in quite some time. (I never heard from her again.) > If you say something generic, they will say something generic. If you say something specific, they are likely to as well. I assumed everyone was a native Arizonan. If someone was a transplant I'd ask "Oh, did you move here from [specific city in the upper Midwest]?" Strictly speaking, there are more people in Arizona from California than [specific city]. But California is 800 miles from Mexico to Oregon, and if they were from California they'd say, "Duh", whereas if they're from [specific city], they're usually either impressed, or they wonder how I knew. One fellow did not have that upper-midwest vibe, but I'd had experiences where I switched it up but would've been right. He said "no, bunch of damn communists from [upper midwest city], I'm from Oklahoma." "How'd you find your way to the desert?" IIRC that passenger was in the Army (Green Berets), and they needed an airport with a thick enough runway to support their operation (he didn't say 'in Central America', but I realized he was talking about the Iran/Contra operation). Scottsdale was their airport. He said something about Lt. Col. North getting crucified by Congress, iirc. [0] "Do you have any food in your apartment, to go with your vodka?" She did not, I stopped the meter and took a detour to McDonald's. That passenger is doing quite well now, and no longer suffers from prison-induced PTSD. Not all passengers got my usual script. I just got a call from a woman who I first picked up at her parents' house. The Phoenix Police officer said, "have fun with this one." She was in fight-or-flight mode, getting kicked out by her parents (who had custody of her daughter). As soon as we pulled away she broke down. She was a very expensive passenger. I hadn't heard from her for maybe 5 years (when she'd just been approved for SS disability). She found my number last week, it was nice to hear from her. [0] "North formulated the second part of the plan, which was to divert proceeds from the arms sales to support the Contra rebel groups in Nicaragua, sales which had been specifically prohibited under the Boland Amendment." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North
Aboh33 5y ago
As a related anecdote, I used to perform experiments by dressing in particular ways while going out in public. If I wore a nice blazer-type jacket and generally looked more preppy, I would definitely notice different behavior as when I might dress with with a t shirt and long sleeve over it with long sleeve shirt unbuttoned. I attribute this partly to conditioning via TV show characters etc.
- yencabulator 5y ago
  This one time, I visited an Apple store at an upscale mall to pick up a laptop (needed urgently, I damaged the previous one by spilling a drink on it). However, I happened to be dressed to the max because of a fancy event that I was returning from. I carried the Apple-branded bag with me while seeing if I could buy some miscellaneous clothing (T-shirts and underwear) while there. It is ridiculous how much more attention I got from every shop attendant throughout the mall that day, compared to my usual comfortable cargo shorts and T-shirt look. That "experiment" still makes me sad. We treat humans like garbage if they don't look rich enough.
- tgv 5y ago
  Or the tv characters dressed that way because of general perception, of course.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  I spent a day trying to smile at strangers. The result was that half of them gave me a "do I know you?" look, and the other half looked at me like I was crazy and backed away. Not encouraging...
  - zh3 5y ago
    I remember a teacher who cycled to work every day, along a coastal route. Because he saw the same people so often, he set himself a goal to smile at all he recognised so they'd smile back. Last time we spoke, he was still battling one obstinate hold-out (while reminds me of an old joke - 'smiles' is actually the longest word in the english langugage because there's a mile between the s's).
andreyk 5y ago
Has literally anyone on this thread read the actual article? Seems pay walled to me... I don't view it as an issue, but maybe HN should start allowing "Let's Discuss" type submissions without a link to an article? That seems like what happens in many cases anyway. Anyways, on the topic of this article, yep it's important!
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Mate, we have subscriptions to The Economist but the comment pinned at the top is a paywall bypass. Of course we read it.
- OJFord 5y ago
  It's not disallowed, you can post a text submission. 'Ask HN: Ever had an interesting conversation with a stranger? Recommend it?' or something. (The body can contain URLs, so you could still link 'this made me think about it, but for x reason didn't think it was a food submission itself'. I think the reason it doesn't really happen is probably that the only value for x that really makes sense is 'the article is broader than that and I want to discuss a more focussed point within it'?)
Noos 5y ago
I dislike these kind of books, since they are designed to overcomplicate things by appealing to the mids and upper-mids needs to follow authority, defer to expertise, and use checklists and systems to try and remove any unpleasantness from interactions. "This common thing is really important! Because of science! Here is a study! Here are the health benefits! Let's also tie this into reducing climate change! I have used my big brain to give you a blueprint of how things should go! It's all good, because someone on the book jacket is wearing a lab coat!" I honestly await titles like "The Lost Art of Petting a Kitten," and "Outdoors; the Secret Benefits of Putting Your Laundry Outside to Dry." I'd also suggest the authors to follow the nifty trend of profanity in the titles of these self-help books. "I Don't Give a Fuck: The Vital Art of Talking to Strangers" and "Badass: The Power of Strangers" might help sales among certain demographics.
- holycrapguys 5y ago
  This is so true it hurts. I've wasted so much time on shitty books like this.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  Delightful! I loved this comment.
beezischillin 5y ago
I grew up as a very lonely child so I struggle a lot with talking to strangers, usually the idea way more than the practice. Knowing that I’ll have to call a stranger on the phone or go to a social event full of unknown people stresses me out to the point of often thinking of many ways of how I’d like to get out of them. In social situations I struggle to let go and have to put enormous amounts of energy to act ‘normal’, yet most people don’t even pick up on it. I guess I’m good at pretending. Despite that I don’t hate people and I quite enjoy listening to them when a topic that even mildly interests me comes up, I’ve done a lot of work to broaden my horizons so thankfully that list of topics is quite long. I often wonder if other people are even remotely like me or if all this comes easily and naturally to them at all times. It does have the advantage that there’s no real difficulty increase between a very difficult social event or conversation or just am average one. Or I can drink quite a lot and still seem normal. I grew up thinking that I’m defective and need to keep to myself and I had to self reflect a lot to overcome that. Despite this, I quite understand and appreciate the need for socializing, crazy amounts more than I did as a child. I wish I could teach young me that because social situations resolve conflict and create opportunities and those create a healthier all around environment and often a better future for all those involved.
- herghost 5y ago
  I used to really overthink making a phone call. To the point that I'd avoid it if there was any way I could. Professionally though, I couldn't avoid making them, and so I moved into a very strange cycle of rehearsing everything I'd say. Not the points I wanted to make, literally running through permutations of actual conversation that might happen. This would consume huge amounts of time and effort. Two things came of that: firstly, the conversations almost never went as I'd planned. All my effort was for nought. Secondly, it dawned on me one day that when someone called me, even when it was an unknown number, I'd take the call within a few rings and it would generally go perfectly well. I obviously didn't get several hours of sweating over permutations before I picked it up, I just picked it up. I slowly pushed myself over to the point that I would plan the outcomes I wanted from a call but leave the detail alone. Each call became a sort of game where I raised my points and tried to get my outcomes. I got quite good at that to the point that I didn't need to pre-plan my outcomes - I obviously already knew them (since I was writing them down) and so I went on to rely on just having a normal conversation. The final lesson I picked up on this journey, primarily from talking to other (usually more senior) people was that if the person I was talking to opened up in a friendly way and put me at ease the conversation was easier. And so I started trying that. Instead of my assuming that I was unimportant, or a distraction from someone's day and trying to be really terse out of what I considered respect for their time, I just eased back. Asked how their day was going. Asked about something I knew that was going on with them. Asked about something we shared organisationally, etc. When I took the time to be more human with them, and less mechanical and efficient, the calls always went well. Even when it wasn't something we shared an outcome over. And so I got to the point where (during the pandemic) I talk to people all day on Zoom calls and don't give a second thought to it. I suppose my point is that from a similar starting point I was able to break the negative thinking cycles that were causing my anxiety around calls, so hopefully others can too.
JSavageOne 5y ago
One's life completely opens up when one realizes that it's possible to talk to strangers and meet friends / romantic partners anywhere, anytime, in any situation. Sure most interactions may not amount to much other than sharing a moment, but every now and then you make a friend or even romantic partner that makes it all worth it and then some. Walking outside goes from being what may have been a mere mundane chore, to endless opportunity. I'm not a naturally social person - actually growing up I was extremely shy and lacking in confidence. But unlike many on here who seem to be content living like hermits, I was never content being shy and always had that curiosity and desire for human connection and social freedom. So even though it was terrifying at first, I forced myself to open up and talk to people when I felt the inner urge to. It was very difficult at first - my head would be racing with thoughts like "What if I'm bothering them? What if they don't like me? What will that random person who overhears the conversation think?" and sometimes my heart would literally be pounding. But on the other hand I knew that that if I didn't do it I'd regret it for the rest of the day, and that no matter what the outcome, I'd come out a stronger, more confident, less inhibited person. Funny enough, the last two people I ended up approaching despite my heart pounding, they ended up talking my ear off, to the point where it almost seemed they wanted to talk to me more than I'd wanted to talk to them! Not everyone is this open of course, but I'm learning it's a lot more than I used to think. I can genuinely say it's dramatically improved my quality of life. As a remote "digital nomad" solo traveler who's generally going to countries alone, it's an absolutely vital skill to have to meet people and live a more enriching life. Without this, your social circle is basically just limited to mutual friends and any in-person activities you participate in, which for me in any new city where I don't already know anyone is basically nobody. For anyone who's wanted to be more social but hesitated due to fear of rejection or other peoples' judgement, I highly encourage you to stop living in fear of others' judgement and just live life on your own terms and go for it. It'll make you a stronger, more confident, less needy person (eg. I think too many people cling on to bad relationships because they don't think they can find better, which if they have no friends, initiative, and social skills might be true). My only regret is not doing this sooner. By not taking initiative, your social life is at the whim of other strangers who take initiative.
- HeckFeck 5y ago
  If I may share a personal anecdote, I went through a lot before I even had the courage to do this. Then one of those chance encounters with strangers led to a great friendship. So I'm commenting to verify your story. Though I need to do it more, it is very difficult to break this old habit which I believe was developed as a necessary survival strategy in my young days. The cynic inside me believes that I was broken in an effort to keep me around, from people who otherwise had nothing positive to offer. I sometimes wonder how many other people are being held at emotional gunpoint for the same reasons...
FridayoLeary 5y ago
I'm thinking about the Tube right now...
MarcScott 5y ago
I can talk to strangers for hours with confidence and honest interest in what they have to say, but only as long as the stranger and I have a pretext to be talking. Sit me and a stranger down in a room and tell us we have to talk about our opinions on package management, the best BBQ recepies or the latest Marvel film and I'm happy. It's the small talk crap that I can't deal with. When I'm in a line at a supermarket, I neither want to talk to my fellow shoppers or the checkout person. I don't want friendly banter from the person selling me beer at the pub. I can't be bothered with trying to turn a pleasantry, exchanged while holding a lift door, into a fleeting relationship.
maverick-iceman 5y ago
I struggle with this a lot. I keep thinking: "Those who are really great and relevant, they don't need to go talk to strangers, it is strangers who go and approach them" This fuels negative thoughts about not being relevant enough so it's better to postpone any active social approach towards strangers up until I'll be relevant enough that they'd be approaching me instead. I somehow feel that this is a consequence of teenager me being in awe of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Guns n Roses and Aerosmith. Getting the aforementioned attitude: "If you are good enough they'll come to you and you'd not have to do anything socially...just showing your talents" Approaching strangers would be a defeat in a sense. Admitting that you are not good or rare or relevant enough to be approached by them instead. Maybe that's why my favorite country is Brazil and the Amazonas region to be specific
sgerenser 5y ago
A few years ago my daughter was 3 and was going through a phase where she’d go up to any random stranger she met and ask “hello, what’s your name?” Talked to a lot of random people this way. Nobody can resist talking to an inquisitive 3 year old. I remember I was in an airport waiting for a flight to Boston and happened to talk to a guy who’s son just started college at the same college I had gone to. Which was surprising since it isn't very well known nor anywhere near Boston or where we were. I was always torn whether the practice of a small child “talking to strangers” was dangerous but I couldn’t bring myself to discourage it.
- benjohnson 5y ago
  My kids did the same thing - turns out it let them understand what normal behaviour looks like. When someone offered one of them something weird and dangerous, they recognized that it wasn't normal.
  - nr2x 5y ago
    Good point, I’ve also been a little wary, but this comment makes me feel better about letting the kids talk. Thanks. Aside, favorite thing my kid did was say to a random old guy “hey pops, what’s your name”
EGreg 5y ago
So pickup artists took this to heart
philip142au 5y ago
This is silly, no stranger wants to be inturrupted

249 points by abhiminator 5y ago

Is there a non-paywall version? I can’t read the article but my gut reaction is this: talking to strangers is dangerous. https://xkcd.com/642/ https://xkcd.com/642/

nafix 5y ago
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, but that's a sad way to view the world.
e40 5y ago
That’s not the message of the cartoon at all. Quite the opposite.
bordercases 5y ago
Go away. Stop talking to us. We don't know you.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
"I didn't read but I will make assumptions and pass judgment" Please reconsider your behaviour on the internet; this is one reason why there's so much misinformation around.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- underseacables 5y ago
  Gosh that really made you upset didn't it.
  - borski 5y ago
    Yes, because it is no different from "didn't read the article, but I heard vaccines contain chips and so I don't want one." Point is: read the article. It makes an argument. Think about that argument, and then if you'd like, respond with derision or excitement or anything else, but get informed about the topic first. In this case, the topic is the contents of / arguments the article makes.
    - underseacables 5y ago
      Maybe you should see someone about this, there’s no reason to get so worked up over a message board.
      - borski 5y ago
        Oh, I wasn’t worked up, but this type of response happens frequently on HN, so it’s annoying. Meanwhile, your comment here is rude and bears no value other than to insult me, which has no place here.
renewiltord 5y ago
Haha this is totally just social anxiety. Both ends actually. The belief that the girl next to you on the train is thinking you’re cute and ignoring her and the belief that she’s gonna react like that. A real version of that comic would probably have her thought bubble be like “I hope the meeting at five doesn’t run over. I’ve got to go pick up that camera lens from Best Buy. And what’s traffic going to be like. Should I just get it shipped? Hmm, I wonder if it’ll make it here before the weekend. But I want an excuse to get out of the meeting. Is that too much? Maybe.” or something like that. You know, the same stuff you’re thinking. I have stranger-interactions all the time and most people are actually fairly eager for them. In fact, about the most you’ll ever see is lack of interest, which occasionally happens but will manifest as them being minimally civil. Most people don’t want discomfort anywhere in their vicinity so they won’t confront you. Like they will barely confront you if you cause them harm, they _definitely_ won’t confront you if you’re neutral.
- bittercynic 5y ago
  I've noticed the same pattern - people are usually very polite if you address them - and it makes me more reluctant to strike up a conversation with nearby strangers. If they really don't want to interact with me they might not give me a clear signal, and I might be causing extended discomfort for someone even though they are acting like they want to continue the interaction. I'm trying to get smarter about reading social signals, but for now I just try to make sure not to corner people. I will not attempt to interact with you unless I can see that you have an easy way to get away from the interaction. Are there classes or something available for people who know they're lacking in social skills and want to get better?
  - 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
    > Are there classes or something available for people who know they're lacking in social skills and want to get better? I've looked for something like this before, and haven't really found a good option. The main things people tend to bring up are: 1) Toastmasters. This is is adult-oriented and widely available, but is largely for people who want to improve at public speaking and "leadership". 2) Social skills training. In principle this is exactly the thing you're looking for, but the field is heavily focused on working with children and adolescents; genuine resources for adults (as opposed to self-help / content marketing fluff) seem scarce.
phpnode 5y ago
I'm surprised to see this reaction from a sales person, isn't this a major part of your job?
- underseacables 5y ago
  Actually it’s not, and there’s a difference between talking to strangers for business, and talking to strangers in social situations.
  - borski 5y ago
    On this, I'd agree. Plenty of salesfolks are quite introverted outside of work.
  - nimih 5y ago
    This is true. The average person on the subway or in a restaurant has no real malice or ill intent toward their fellow traveler/patron, whereas the average salesperson or business associate on the job is actively looking to hoodwink you.
bell-cot 5y ago
Try disabling javascript in your browser. At least in the U.S.A., that lets me read most paywalled articles linked from HN. (Yes, cool multi-media content is lost. Parent's complaint was "can't read the article".)

haspoken 5y ago

https://archive.is/DFIdE https://archive.is/DFIdE

emptyfile 5y ago

Yeah, talking to strangers is not a thing in my country. Can't say I care for it.

pmoriarty 5y ago
"talking to strangers is not a thing in my country. Can't say I care for it." What country is this and how do you ever meet new people? Are you saying people in your country don't meet strangers at bars, parties, through participation in sports, at dance clubs, or special interest clubs? Also, while you say you don't care for it, you do realize that you're talking to strangers right now, don't you?
- upgrejd 5y ago
  Judging by his comment history it seems that he's from Croatia but Croatia doesn't fit his description so I don't know...
graeme 5y ago
I highly doubt this is true of any country. All countries are full of humans. Anyone making this claim has a severe sampling problem. If you personally don’t talk to people, you can be under the impression that nobody talks to people. The people that do talk to people can read signs for who wants to talk and they talk to each other. The false impression is further reinforced if you go outside the country because as a foreigner people are more likely to talk to you, offer help, etc. Your evidence would be stronger if you were a person who did care to talk to people but found that in a certain country nobody replied.
- trompetenaccoun 5y ago
  Agreed, but to be fair people rarely mean it literally when saying something doesn't exist in their country - it was probably more in the vein of that 'it's uncommon'. There certainly are differences and in some cultures it's a lot more common that people talk to random strangers as compared to others.
- 5y ago

renewiltord 5y ago

Perhaps the problem with social media is that it’s not social. It’s actually oratorical media. In a physically social setting, people do the thing the article quotes: they recognize that interaction with diametrically opposing viewpoints is possible if they exercise tact to eschew controversy until having built common ground. That isn’t possible at scale because there is no common ground at scale. And online, everything is at scale. You are definitely talking to everyone.

jcims 5y ago
Totally agree. Even without the opposition, there's a similar issue about having vulnerable conversations. I had a buddy over last night and he relayed an experience he had in NYC a few weeks ago. He was at a bar and saw this guy that just looked like he was in a bad place. He debated for a while whether or not to say anything but ultimately decided to break the ice and offer him a drink. The guy said he had to pace himself b/c he was going to be there a while. My buddy's intuition was that this guy was close to walking in front of a subway train, so he said something along the lines of 'hey I'm happy to give you your privacy but I guarantee I'm a great listener'. The guy then proceeds to say that he and his oldest son were what he called 'vocal twins'. They sounded identical to each other in timbre and phrasing and mannerisms and everything. Well, six weeks prior, his son committed suicide while away at school. Obviously devastating to him and his wife, but eventually life has to start to resume. The guy was just getting started back at work and was on a call. Meanwhile his wife had just arrived home from grocery shopping, and upon hearing him on the phone immediately starting screaming and running into the room thinking her boy was back. Talking it through, this guy and his wife decided that he would leave for a bit...but he wasn't sure how to know when it was ok to go back if his voice was going to trigger her that much. After that, my buddy and this guy proceeded to talk for another two hours about kids and life and work and I can't imagine the guy felt worse after. My buddy is a natural extrovert and 20 years of being a lawyer in NYC has tuned his social instrument to a level that's rather magnificent to behold. If you tried to repeat this scenario on Twitter or in a subreddit or here on HN, all of the non-verbal cues that started and sustained the (IMHO very intimate and vulnerable) conversation would be completely absent.
- 5y ago

vuciv1 5y ago

You can say you don't enjoy interacting with strangers, but I realize you should realize that you're taking the time to comment on an anonymous social platform. Even if you're just reading the comments, you're listening to what strangers have to say

deregulateMed 5y ago
The difference is choosing to engage or closing the web page. Plus, I have no problem talking with programmers about their jobs and hobbies. Compare that to talking to a program manager who's hobbies are comic book related... I'm not sure what to talk about with them... Maybe virtue vs hedonist philosophy? (They do comic books, they are clearly hedonists)
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  > They do comic books, they are clearly hedonists Are comics significantly more hedonistic than other media? (I'm genuinely asking; I've never been interested in comics but I've also never heard that they were all that different from other entertainment media.)
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    It could be argued that HN, news, and Reddit are less hedonist because they provide education. Although, my long term plan is to eliminate those in favor of non fiction books and personal projects. The best "pro comic book" argument I've heard is that science fiction can help you consider potential futures of humanity. This can reduce being surprised by biotechnology and AI events. This could help humanity vote better and make more ethical software. (or so the argument goes)
    - verall 5y ago
      It could be argued, but I think its a pretty weak argument. HN, Reddit, news, comics, manga, TV: its all a dopamine drip. The specifics can be impactful: a movie that changes your perspective, a great article on HN that helps you accomplish a goal better/faster/stronger. But usually you are just slamming your preferred dopamine drip. SciFi books or comics don't "help humanity vote better", they are enjoyed, the same way some people enjoy reading Reddit and HN.

munificent 5y ago

I have a hypothesis that almost all of the US's current cultural problems would be solved if once a month we all cooked and shared a meal with another randomly chosen family.

deregulateMed 5y ago
That sounds like fun. Although I hope you are ready to meet lots of Christians and a few alcoholics every year. Just remember that the 90% doesn't like talking about their jobs. Hope you know the latest sportsball news... That being said, there's usually other commonalities to discuss.
- war1025 5y ago
  > Although I hope you are ready to meet lots of Christians and a few alcoholics every year. Always good to lump the Christians in with the alcoholics.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    They're just jealous that christians have more fun.
  - Notanothertoo 5y ago
    I do believe the modern (us) conservative evangelical "back to basics" movement started in the 30s/40s as a response to rampant alcoholism from the great depression. Church of christ and similar denominations. They take a (claimed) "hyper" literal approach over a few key issues, like alcohol, sex, drugs, taxes, tithing, homosexuality.. Recent history was the 90s abstinence movement.. And in the last 7 or so years these have been the churches taking the brunt of the exodus and have been largely deflated, with churches across the nation dying due to lack of new young people. I would wager good money that most modern conservative US Christian families have a male alcoholic relative not too far removed. The alcoholics and Christians go together.
    - war1025 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Moodles 5y ago

For awhile Sweden had Call a Random Swede https://www.theswedishnumber.com/ https://www.theswedishnumber.com/ where if you called the number, you would literally be paired with a random Swede to talk about whatever you want.

NikolaNovak 5y ago
That. Is awesome. Sorry I missed it!
- chenster 5y ago
  Isn't it an app for that??
  - radnor 5y ago
    https://dialup.com/ https://dialup.com/ is similar
webo 5y ago
Is that much different than chat rooms or Omegle?
mudita 5y ago
Here they call the number in the British television show QI: https://youtu.be/zUrYRdIxYp8 https://youtu.be/zUrYRdIxYp8
culopatin 5y ago
In the US that would end up in a lot of unwanted phone sex

taxicabjesus 5y ago

The most important thing about learning to talk to strangers is practice. Taxi driving gave me lots of new people to talk to every day. Sometimes they weren't new. I didn't remember them, but they remembered me on account of my previous efforts to get information out of them. [edit: if I was starting this today I'd be a ride share driver. But I've learned enough, and don't feel the need to drive people around again.] > Here are other ways Nightingall suggests breaking a script. I figured out where my passengers were going, "Are you going anywhere in particular, or do I get to choose?" No one hires a taxi to take them to a random location. One lady, who was with her family, said "we can go anywhere you want." Two seconds later she said, "too late, we're going to the movies." 'DRATS! That was my chance!' Thenceforth I resolved to be prepared for when people took me up on my proposal of picking their destination. One woman said we could go anywhere I wanted, as long as she got to the bus station by 10pm. We had plenty of time, so we went to the 5 & Diner for dessert. When I dropped her off at the station, my passenger said it was the best birthday she'd had in quite some time. (I never heard from her again.) > If you say something generic, they will say something generic. If you say something specific, they are likely to as well. I assumed everyone was a native Arizonan. If someone was a transplant I'd ask "Oh, did you move here from [specific city in the upper Midwest]?" Strictly speaking, there are more people in Arizona from California than [specific city]. But California is 800 miles from Mexico to Oregon, and if they were from California they'd say, "Duh", whereas if they're from [specific city], they're usually either impressed, or they wonder how I knew. One fellow did not have that upper-midwest vibe, but I'd had experiences where I switched it up but would've been right. He said "no, bunch of damn communists from [upper midwest city], I'm from Oklahoma." "How'd you find your way to the desert?" IIRC that passenger was in the Army (Green Berets), and they needed an airport with a thick enough runway to support their operation (he didn't say 'in Central America', but I realized he was talking about the Iran/Contra operation). Scottsdale was their airport. He said something about Lt. Col. North getting crucified by Congress, iirc. [0] "Do you have any food in your apartment, to go with your vodka?" She did not, I stopped the meter and took a detour to McDonald's. That passenger is doing quite well now, and no longer suffers from prison-induced PTSD. Not all passengers got my usual script. I just got a call from a woman who I first picked up at her parents' house. The Phoenix Police officer said, "have fun with this one." She was in fight-or-flight mode, getting kicked out by her parents (who had custody of her daughter). As soon as we pulled away she broke down. She was a very expensive passenger. I hadn't heard from her for maybe 5 years (when she'd just been approved for SS disability). She found my number last week, it was nice to hear from her. [0] "North formulated the second part of the plan, which was to divert proceeds from the arms sales to support the Contra rebel groups in Nicaragua, sales which had been specifically prohibited under the Boland Amendment." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

Aboh33 5y ago

As a related anecdote, I used to perform experiments by dressing in particular ways while going out in public. If I wore a nice blazer-type jacket and generally looked more preppy, I would definitely notice different behavior as when I might dress with with a t shirt and long sleeve over it with long sleeve shirt unbuttoned. I attribute this partly to conditioning via TV show characters etc.

yencabulator 5y ago
This one time, I visited an Apple store at an upscale mall to pick up a laptop (needed urgently, I damaged the previous one by spilling a drink on it). However, I happened to be dressed to the max because of a fancy event that I was returning from. I carried the Apple-branded bag with me while seeing if I could buy some miscellaneous clothing (T-shirts and underwear) while there. It is ridiculous how much more attention I got from every shop attendant throughout the mall that day, compared to my usual comfortable cargo shorts and T-shirt look. That "experiment" still makes me sad. We treat humans like garbage if they don't look rich enough.
tgv 5y ago
Or the tv characters dressed that way because of general perception, of course.
pmoriarty 5y ago
I spent a day trying to smile at strangers. The result was that half of them gave me a "do I know you?" look, and the other half looked at me like I was crazy and backed away. Not encouraging...
- zh3 5y ago
  I remember a teacher who cycled to work every day, along a coastal route. Because he saw the same people so often, he set himself a goal to smile at all he recognised so they'd smile back. Last time we spoke, he was still battling one obstinate hold-out (while reminds me of an old joke - 'smiles' is actually the longest word in the english langugage because there's a mile between the s's).

andreyk 5y ago

Has literally anyone on this thread read the actual article? Seems pay walled to me... I don't view it as an issue, but maybe HN should start allowing "Let's Discuss" type submissions without a link to an article? That seems like what happens in many cases anyway. Anyways, on the topic of this article, yep it's important!

renewiltord 5y ago
Mate, we have subscriptions to The Economist but the comment pinned at the top is a paywall bypass. Of course we read it.
OJFord 5y ago
It's not disallowed, you can post a text submission. 'Ask HN: Ever had an interesting conversation with a stranger? Recommend it?' or something. (The body can contain URLs, so you could still link 'this made me think about it, but for x reason didn't think it was a food submission itself'. I think the reason it doesn't really happen is probably that the only value for x that really makes sense is 'the article is broader than that and I want to discuss a more focussed point within it'?)

Noos 5y ago

I dislike these kind of books, since they are designed to overcomplicate things by appealing to the mids and upper-mids needs to follow authority, defer to expertise, and use checklists and systems to try and remove any unpleasantness from interactions. "This common thing is really important! Because of science! Here is a study! Here are the health benefits! Let's also tie this into reducing climate change! I have used my big brain to give you a blueprint of how things should go! It's all good, because someone on the book jacket is wearing a lab coat!" I honestly await titles like "The Lost Art of Petting a Kitten," and "Outdoors; the Secret Benefits of Putting Your Laundry Outside to Dry." I'd also suggest the authors to follow the nifty trend of profanity in the titles of these self-help books. "I Don't Give a Fuck: The Vital Art of Talking to Strangers" and "Badass: The Power of Strangers" might help sales among certain demographics.

holycrapguys 5y ago
This is so true it hurts. I've wasted so much time on shitty books like this.
renewiltord 5y ago
Delightful! I loved this comment.

beezischillin 5y ago

I grew up as a very lonely child so I struggle a lot with talking to strangers, usually the idea way more than the practice. Knowing that I’ll have to call a stranger on the phone or go to a social event full of unknown people stresses me out to the point of often thinking of many ways of how I’d like to get out of them. In social situations I struggle to let go and have to put enormous amounts of energy to act ‘normal’, yet most people don’t even pick up on it. I guess I’m good at pretending. Despite that I don’t hate people and I quite enjoy listening to them when a topic that even mildly interests me comes up, I’ve done a lot of work to broaden my horizons so thankfully that list of topics is quite long. I often wonder if other people are even remotely like me or if all this comes easily and naturally to them at all times. It does have the advantage that there’s no real difficulty increase between a very difficult social event or conversation or just am average one. Or I can drink quite a lot and still seem normal. I grew up thinking that I’m defective and need to keep to myself and I had to self reflect a lot to overcome that. Despite this, I quite understand and appreciate the need for socializing, crazy amounts more than I did as a child. I wish I could teach young me that because social situations resolve conflict and create opportunities and those create a healthier all around environment and often a better future for all those involved.

herghost 5y ago
I used to really overthink making a phone call. To the point that I'd avoid it if there was any way I could. Professionally though, I couldn't avoid making them, and so I moved into a very strange cycle of rehearsing everything I'd say. Not the points I wanted to make, literally running through permutations of actual conversation that might happen. This would consume huge amounts of time and effort. Two things came of that: firstly, the conversations almost never went as I'd planned. All my effort was for nought. Secondly, it dawned on me one day that when someone called me, even when it was an unknown number, I'd take the call within a few rings and it would generally go perfectly well. I obviously didn't get several hours of sweating over permutations before I picked it up, I just picked it up. I slowly pushed myself over to the point that I would plan the outcomes I wanted from a call but leave the detail alone. Each call became a sort of game where I raised my points and tried to get my outcomes. I got quite good at that to the point that I didn't need to pre-plan my outcomes - I obviously already knew them (since I was writing them down) and so I went on to rely on just having a normal conversation. The final lesson I picked up on this journey, primarily from talking to other (usually more senior) people was that if the person I was talking to opened up in a friendly way and put me at ease the conversation was easier. And so I started trying that. Instead of my assuming that I was unimportant, or a distraction from someone's day and trying to be really terse out of what I considered respect for their time, I just eased back. Asked how their day was going. Asked about something I knew that was going on with them. Asked about something we shared organisationally, etc. When I took the time to be more human with them, and less mechanical and efficient, the calls always went well. Even when it wasn't something we shared an outcome over. And so I got to the point where (during the pandemic) I talk to people all day on Zoom calls and don't give a second thought to it. I suppose my point is that from a similar starting point I was able to break the negative thinking cycles that were causing my anxiety around calls, so hopefully others can too.

JSavageOne 5y ago

One's life completely opens up when one realizes that it's possible to talk to strangers and meet friends / romantic partners anywhere, anytime, in any situation. Sure most interactions may not amount to much other than sharing a moment, but every now and then you make a friend or even romantic partner that makes it all worth it and then some. Walking outside goes from being what may have been a mere mundane chore, to endless opportunity. I'm not a naturally social person - actually growing up I was extremely shy and lacking in confidence. But unlike many on here who seem to be content living like hermits, I was never content being shy and always had that curiosity and desire for human connection and social freedom. So even though it was terrifying at first, I forced myself to open up and talk to people when I felt the inner urge to. It was very difficult at first - my head would be racing with thoughts like "What if I'm bothering them? What if they don't like me? What will that random person who overhears the conversation think?" and sometimes my heart would literally be pounding. But on the other hand I knew that that if I didn't do it I'd regret it for the rest of the day, and that no matter what the outcome, I'd come out a stronger, more confident, less inhibited person. Funny enough, the last two people I ended up approaching despite my heart pounding, they ended up talking my ear off, to the point where it almost seemed they wanted to talk to me more than I'd wanted to talk to them! Not everyone is this open of course, but I'm learning it's a lot more than I used to think. I can genuinely say it's dramatically improved my quality of life. As a remote "digital nomad" solo traveler who's generally going to countries alone, it's an absolutely vital skill to have to meet people and live a more enriching life. Without this, your social circle is basically just limited to mutual friends and any in-person activities you participate in, which for me in any new city where I don't already know anyone is basically nobody. For anyone who's wanted to be more social but hesitated due to fear of rejection or other peoples' judgement, I highly encourage you to stop living in fear of others' judgement and just live life on your own terms and go for it. It'll make you a stronger, more confident, less needy person (eg. I think too many people cling on to bad relationships because they don't think they can find better, which if they have no friends, initiative, and social skills might be true). My only regret is not doing this sooner. By not taking initiative, your social life is at the whim of other strangers who take initiative.

HeckFeck 5y ago
If I may share a personal anecdote, I went through a lot before I even had the courage to do this. Then one of those chance encounters with strangers led to a great friendship. So I'm commenting to verify your story. Though I need to do it more, it is very difficult to break this old habit which I believe was developed as a necessary survival strategy in my young days. The cynic inside me believes that I was broken in an effort to keep me around, from people who otherwise had nothing positive to offer. I sometimes wonder how many other people are being held at emotional gunpoint for the same reasons...

FridayoLeary 5y ago

I'm thinking about the Tube right now...

MarcScott 5y ago

I can talk to strangers for hours with confidence and honest interest in what they have to say, but only as long as the stranger and I have a pretext to be talking. Sit me and a stranger down in a room and tell us we have to talk about our opinions on package management, the best BBQ recepies or the latest Marvel film and I'm happy. It's the small talk crap that I can't deal with. When I'm in a line at a supermarket, I neither want to talk to my fellow shoppers or the checkout person. I don't want friendly banter from the person selling me beer at the pub. I can't be bothered with trying to turn a pleasantry, exchanged while holding a lift door, into a fleeting relationship.

maverick-iceman 5y ago

I struggle with this a lot. I keep thinking: "Those who are really great and relevant, they don't need to go talk to strangers, it is strangers who go and approach them" This fuels negative thoughts about not being relevant enough so it's better to postpone any active social approach towards strangers up until I'll be relevant enough that they'd be approaching me instead. I somehow feel that this is a consequence of teenager me being in awe of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Guns n Roses and Aerosmith. Getting the aforementioned attitude: "If you are good enough they'll come to you and you'd not have to do anything socially...just showing your talents" Approaching strangers would be a defeat in a sense. Admitting that you are not good or rare or relevant enough to be approached by them instead. Maybe that's why my favorite country is Brazil and the Amazonas region to be specific

sgerenser 5y ago

A few years ago my daughter was 3 and was going through a phase where she’d go up to any random stranger she met and ask “hello, what’s your name?” Talked to a lot of random people this way. Nobody can resist talking to an inquisitive 3 year old. I remember I was in an airport waiting for a flight to Boston and happened to talk to a guy who’s son just started college at the same college I had gone to. Which was surprising since it isn't very well known nor anywhere near Boston or where we were. I was always torn whether the practice of a small child “talking to strangers” was dangerous but I couldn’t bring myself to discourage it.

benjohnson 5y ago
My kids did the same thing - turns out it let them understand what normal behaviour looks like. When someone offered one of them something weird and dangerous, they recognized that it wasn't normal.
- nr2x 5y ago
  Good point, I’ve also been a little wary, but this comment makes me feel better about letting the kids talk. Thanks. Aside, favorite thing my kid did was say to a random old guy “hey pops, what’s your name”

EGreg 5y ago

So pickup artists took this to heart

philip142au 5y ago

This is silly, no stranger wants to be inturrupted