19 ms·
'Superager' brains resist the march of time to have memories like 25-year-olds
- morpheos137 5y agoHow were the individuals' baselines assessed? Some people have exceptionally good memories. It would not be suprising if these traits often persisted into old age in some of such individuals. For example a person with a savant pmemory at 25 might have the memory of an average 25 year when at 85. That would not suprise me. That said memory is not all that it is cracked up to be. When I was young I had an exceptional memory for facts. It hasn't helped me too much in adult life due to other psychosocial deficits and bad luck and evironment. There are different forms of memory. My emotional and autobiographic memory is sometimes so bad it is weird. Like many life events don't leave too strong an impression.
- barcoder 5y agoInteresting point that there are different forms of memory. A certain smell can take me back to a kindergarten memory. Music seems to be another form of memory that resists memory loss even amongst Alzheimer patients.* * https://www.dementiauk.org/music-therapy/ https://www.dementiauk.org/music-therapy/
- tgv 5y agoI don't think there can be a baseline. They would have had to scan a couple of hundred people 60 years ago to establish it. Plus, the results are on a very small group. It's difficult for me to imagine that fMRI can reliably show differences. And it's also noticeable that they couch the effect in very vague terms: "similar pattern", "more youthful". That's a lot of freedom to interpret a few so much data. That they've found a bio-marker sounds implausible to me: all they've found is a correlation with a memory task that can't be measured without applying that task.
- easygenes 5y agoYes, I know a person who is an adept computer scientist and well regarded author, yet they are quite frustrated that they have such a hard time remembering people by their voice and face that only people they are constantly close with are familiar.
- sharken 5y agoI also find that remembering peoples names take some time and effort. On the other hand i am quite good at relating bits of information, which is useful for problem solving, e.g. where was something similar seen before. This relation ability also works for words, such as your use of "adept". That relates to Battle Chess and then another old game called "Archon II: Adept", which is a bit like chess. Granted, it's not always useful things that come up this way. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon_II:_Adept https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon_II:_Adept
- nly 5y agoI can remember technical details from decades ago but often forget that I've met people socially just a couple of years ago. Me and my partner just had a discussion this morning where she claimed I had met one of her friends, and her friends long term partner, in a bar. We apparently spent he whole evening together chatting. I remember nothing of this evening (and I wasn't drinking).
- cleanpool 5y agoHey man, you didn't have a means of contact in your profile but I just wanted to say thank you. Mods or voters, please let this comment remain unflagged so morpheos137 can receive it. I have no other way to reach out to him. You commented to me recently re: self termination plans. You told me that I'd be cleaning the gene pool by self-terminating. Thanks for that. I've done a lot of reflection in the days since then. You're right. I have decided to proceed with self-termination and remove myself from the gene pool. Don't feel bad. It's just your view, one that I now fully agree with. Thank you again for helping me to make this decision. Take care, and I hope you procreate widely with your superior, healthy genes, ape.
- beautifulfreak 5y agoMindcrowd is one organization exploring memory "to advance Alzheimer's research". Older participants with high scores on its online memory test are sent a blood sample kit for DNA profiling. https://mindcrowd.org https://mindcrowd.org
- onion2k 5y agoI don't have one of those. My memory is awful. Fortunately though, realising this is what pushed me to get better at writing documentation. I write it for my own benefit, and everyone else on my team also benefits.
- dspillett 5y agoSimilar here. Though maybe we do have one of those. At 42 I have the memory of me at 25. My memory was terrible back then too.
- RGamma 5y agoDid you find out why? Tried mitigation techniques? My fact memory is working relatively well (passive recall/recognition much better than active recall/production) but my autobiographical memory is almost non-existent. It's really bothering me. I stopped consumption of disjointed media on social media-like feeds (only exception: HN) because that was worsening it to no one's surprise. Maybe a full digital detox to the extent work allows is in order? What else could I try?
- wizzwizz4 5y agoWriting an autobiography.
- r-zip 5y agoI'm not sure, but this may be something to bring up with a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist. If your memories are "overly general," then it may be linked to something else going on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_autobiographical_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_autobiographical_m... Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional, and this is not medical advice.
- RGamma 5y agoGood pointer. Sounds eerily related
- jb775 5y ago> 71 percent of superagers smoke Possibly something with how nicotine/tobacco interacts with the brain?
- yipbub 5y agoWhere'd you find this? The study? I ctrl+f'ed a bunch of the links and I didn't see the word smoke.
- virgulino 5y agohttps://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-they-have-in-common-elderly-sharp-cognitive https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-the...
- RandomThrow321 5y agoIt's in one of the linked articles. It also mentions alcohol consumption. https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-they-have-in-common-elderly-sharp-cognitive https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-the...
- jb775 5y agoA reference from the article: https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-they-have-in-common-elderly-sharp-cognitive https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-the...
- powerapple 5y agoThat's probably is just the percentage of smokers at their time. Smoking is getting less popular now, I remember when I was small, many people smoke.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rootsudo 5y agoBlood transfusions really do seem more and more viable, if you don't mind finding young blood (literally) and doing weekly, or monthly transfusions.
- whatshisface 5y agoHow is this article related to blood transfusions?
- joshuaissac 5y agoYoung blood transfusions are hypothesised to slow down and reverse aging of the brain. https://www.simonsfoundation.org/2020/11/10/searching-for-the-secret-of-how-young-blood-rejuvenates-the-brain/ https://www.simonsfoundation.org/2020/11/10/searching-for-th...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bitwize 5y agoOh, sure, because if you hang around here and are any good at programming, surely you can afford your own blood boy. Right.
- rootsudo 5y agoTechnically yes, you're assuming you need to do it in a Tech market - but you can do geographic arbitrage. Blood boy in emerging economies. Ethical, eh. Legal, sure in most countries you can grab blood, compensate blood and do whatever. If ethics is the biggest barrier, makes you wonder.
- prepend 5y agoWhat’s the cost of weekly or monthly transfusions? Googling doesn’t give me too much credible info so I’d rather have at least one data point from a random HN user.
- breck 5y agoAnyone know if psychedelics have been tried as a treatment for Alzheimer’s? Those seem like a fountain of youth, in a way, in the brain.
- kortex 5y agoThere's some interesting prospectives if you just search for 'psychedelics alzheimers'. Not a lot of direct research unfortunately, due to legality/stigma (which fortunately is ameliorating in recent years). However, it's reasonable to believe it can help. Dosing of LSD/psilocybin (in rats) in moderation has shown to increase synaptogenesis, prospective and retrospective learning, BDNF expression (in some regions), and other related effects. The currently most scientifically supported benefits revolve around anxiety and depression. Psychedelics have a robust effect against stress, anxiety, depression, and related neuroses. We know these neuroses have detrimental effects on cognition and life quality. Lowering stress levels in aging folks is likely neurobeneficial in general. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsyn.2020.00034/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsyn.2020.0003...
- irrational 5y agoMy 98 year old grandmother is still as sharp as a tack. She can remember specific dates that things happened nearly a century ago. I can barely remember what I did yesterday.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoas you age your long term memory tends to stay functioning, it is the short term memory formation that has problems.
- dzhiurgis 5y agoAlso prioritisation. Maybe you don't remember yesterday because it wasn't important.
- nobrains 5y agoFrom the other article[1] linked inside this one, the traits that they suspect leads to this are: - optimism - resilience - perseverance - active lifestyles - engaged lifestyles - having pursuits (like travel, reading, positive social relationships) [1] https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-they-have-in-common-elderly-sharp-cognitive https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-the...
- puchatek 5y agoI was afraid it was gonna be stuff like that. High stress levels are bad for forming memories.
- Roritharr 5y agoThese kinds of studies should always come with a trigger warning: "Be aware if you are emotionally distressed when your belief in the Just-World-Fallacy is threatened." Joking aside, having grown up relatively poor and feeling compelled to put work success above everything else to ensure economic stability for my kids these things really do negatively shape my expectations for the second half my life. Not sure what to do about that.
- hereme888 5y agoGiving your all for the next generation is inspiring. Minimum economic stability is so important, as is being healthy and able to enjoy life with others. Don't really know what to say, except I hope that over time you're able to stick to the known foundations of body and mental health (that I know of): good sleep, aerobic exercise, healthy diet, fulfilling relationships.
- graeme 5y ago> Not sure what to do about that. Biggest things you can do are the basics: * Sleep as close to eight hours a night as you can * Cook healthy food * Maintain a low waist circumference and maintain muscle mass * Have some combo of low intensity cardio (walking etc) and higher intensity stuff. A 7 min strength training circuit is good here The basics are surprisingly hard, the majority of north american adults flunk all of these. From your description you may be missing at least the majority. That’s ok, you have a clear priority in your life. The point is, examine that list and your own life/work schedule, and see if one of those can be improved within your existing framework. Usually this is possible for one of them and they actually work together. Improving any of these gives your body its best shot at maintaining itself over the long haul despite work stress.
- carlsborg 5y agoSome people have abs and muscle mass well into their 60s and 70s. But that’s because they go to the gym and train hard everyday. Maybe it’s the same with the brain.
- kofejnik 5y agoSteroids
- ceilingcorner 5y agoWhere can I buy the brain steroids?
- frozenport 5y agoSame place as the dick pills!
- Yajirobe 5y agoGet prescribed Adderall
- bserge 5y agoGood luck with that
- giantandroids 5y agowhich is exactly what I will do at that age.
- krono 5y agoSteroids to keep your body strong. Antidepressants to keep your brain young. Laxatives to more easily get rid of your fast food dung. β-Blockers for making sure your blood pressure isn't wrong. And of course deodorant: fresh as a daisy, even without a shower because you were too lazy! Pharmaceuticals, for when you just can't.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dnumjar 5y agoCut them up! Cut them up!
- masterbit 5y agoAs this comes out very late in their life, seems not be able to influence the natural selection process in human evolution.
- amitport 5y agoSo, maybe natural selection works like this: Smarter elders -> more successful tribe (more food, more territory, better group-fitness!)
- Helmut10001 5y agoThe sister of my grandmother is like this. Travelled the world, stuck in San Francisco at some time, now 97 years old. She is connected via tablet, computer, smartphone, and we discuss world politics every week. She frequently changes her point of view based on new information, which is incredible to me. She is able to reflect, question herself and others and it is entirely beyond me how her brain can work like this with her age.
- chadcmulligan 5y agoI'm close to 60, now around 50 I noticed things were going south and I wasn't to happy about it. So I did some research and made lifestyle changes - nothing startling, ate well and started an exercise program. Now I feel like I'm 40 again. I have some friends who I've known since high school, now some have health issues and its how they respond seems to make a difference. Some just take the pills the doctor gives them and accept the ageing process and complain about things. Others, like myself, fight tooth and nail to do whatever they can. Of course you can only fight so much - the genetic hand you're dealt, but, I believe your attitude to ageing is really a factor - if you accept it, or fight it. Which sort of aligns with the personality traits they observed. You're only as old as you feel as the saying goes. I know one lady for example who has had two cancers and was forced to use a walker for a while but is going again, whereas her husband was showing me all the pills he takes - due to being overweight and eating poorly. He has accepted his fate, she has fought against it.
- agumonkey 5y agocan you share your plan details ? I did clean my diet 85% but I'm still looking for a PE plan.
- chadcmulligan 5y agoLike I said, nothing startling. I do studio pilates a couple of times a week, if you have aches and pains I really recommend this - I don't have back pain anymore because of this. I walk everywhere now, I used to drive everywhere, I moved inner city near public transport. It seems very personal though, I know some people that run a lot, not for me, others do gym work or golf. It really depends on what bits are hurting I feel. I do think we all need some sort of strength training, and the research seems to back that up, and Pilates is superb for that. I'd been very sedentary for a number of years, and happened to go to someone that had done a lot of rehab work, she was great. I tried a few people though, so just find one that works for you. Diet is mainly Mediterranean now - beans, lentils, veggies, fish etc. occasional meat, but not much.
- 5y ago
- hereme888 5y agoResisting brain shrinkage: reminds me of a somewhat different but related report I heard in the past of a group of nuns who seemed to age very well such that their cognitive functions remained seemingly strong into old age. They donated their brains to research, and upon study significant shrinkage was found similar to some degree of Alzheimer's. I think the conclusion was that because they kept themselves so active and busy, whatever synaptic connections were necessary for their daily functioning were kept strong, alongside important life memories. Another strong case for how "retirement" is harmful. Generally, the rate at which memory synapses weakens is similar across the general population (stability of a memory synapse), so for super-agers it is probably genetic. I may not have a super-ager brain, but as a lifelong learner and brain-health lover I've placed all my significant memories into a spaced-repetition program I use for everything, and thus am able to recall at will all sorts of important memories in life. I'm keeping my important synapses strong. There's another category besides super-agers: people with hyperthymesia: "a condition that leads people to be able to remember an abnormally large number of their life experiences in vivid detail. It is extraordinarily rare, with only about 60 people in the world having been diagnosed with the condition as of 2021." There's a documentary about these people. You ask them: what important event happened in your life on January 7th, 1980, and they can answer it accurately.
- fouc 5y agoI'm curious how do you judge which memories are significant enough to put in your spaced-repetition program?
- hereme888 5y agoIt's usually something that brings up very positive emotions, like childhood memories, wedding/honeymoon pictures, me at various stages of life, important transition periods, people I want to remember well, etc. For the "negative", I've mostly resorted to journaling in ways that help me self-discover and resolve the past, such as SelfAuthoring.com exercises that I continually write and re-write from time to time (I bought and copied the exercises to my local drive).
- kiba 5y ago
- giantg2 5y agoIs it possible that they were even better when they were younger and this is their aging process?
- pizzaknife 5y agoI have the mentality of a 13yr old, does that count?
- Tade0 5y agoMy grandfather apparently is such a person. Currently 94 and as lucid as he was 25 years ago and with an amazing memory at that, which he shows off by reciting poetry he learned in the course of the last 85 years or so. Even if I inherited this trait and lived that long, I doubt I would be able to repeat this - he's been very active throughout his whole life and neither drinks nor smokes.
- andai 5y agoThe article linked to another one with more detail: > Superagers are more likely to be extroverts and less likely to be neurotic than others, and it looks like their active lifestyles aren't necessarily healthy in other ways. In at least one study, 71 percent of superagers smoked, while 83 percent drank alcohol regularly. https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-they-have-in-common-elderly-sharp-cognitive https://www.sciencealert.com/less-than-5-superagers-what-the...
- agumonkey 5y agoWhat about emotions ? My brain can function but a great deal of it less colorful than 20 somethings, which in the end feels a bit moot.
- theshadowknows 5y agoI need to work on my memory and brain health overall because it acts sporadically. I can remember my first memory...I was maybe 2 or 3 and I was playing with blocks on the floor of our living room and I thought to myself "have I ever talked before?" and then I thought "I should ask mom, but it would be weird to talk while also asking if I've ever done it before.."..it's a very confusing memory... But half the time my short term memory is nearly useless so I have to write everything down. So much static from my internal monologs, constantly talking over each other. It's exhausting sometimes. So I just write down everything..what I'm about to do, what I was just doing, what I just thought to do next week...all goes in the notebook.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hbogert 5y agolike 25-year olds? Give me my memory which I had when I was 3-8 years old, I can still 'taste' the sunshine through green sunscreens we had in elementary school. The faces of teachers and fellow scholars so vivid. Anybody else have that experience that once you're 20+, your brain is full and only x-amount of stuff is retained per day. I sometimes don't remember what I had for dinner the day before, but I remember some esoteric option to a one-time used application on the commandline from 2 weeks ago. Scary, because it makes me look ultra-dumb for everyday stuff which I have to do in a normal house-hold.
- ragesh 5y agoThis happens to me, too. At some level, I think it's a function of my mind deciding to only retain what's novel and filter out the day-to-day noise. Perhaps my dinner from two days ago was simply not remarkable enough to remember. But the 8 year old me probably found every day to be a new and wondrous experience.
- daniellarusso 5y agoI kind of think that is your subconscious not needing to put a bunch of effort into ‘storing’ recent meals versus prioritizing ‘memorizing’ tools you have used and how to use them. I have vivid memories from preschool, but, ask me what happened last week, and I will need to check my bash history. j/k
- mlboss 5y agoWhat you experienced in your younger days is totally possible at anytime of your life. You just need to quite down the thinking mind. Mind has a habit of either ruminating about the past or imagining the future. Once you quiet it down the NOW appears with all its shininess and vivid colors. Meditation helps a lot. I had a realization 10 years back and after it I can switch my brain to NOW anytime. Meditation is a good way to achieve it. I got this ability after reading “Power of Now” by Echary Tolle.
- antisocial 5y agoCannot recommend this podcast enough - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2D2CMWXMOVWx7giW1n3LIg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2D2CMWXMOVWx7giW1n3LIg You may find actionable protocols that greatly improve your quality of life and prepare you for aging.
- antisocial 5y agoThe Huberman Lab Podcast discusses neuroscience—how our brain and its connections with the organs of our body controls our perceptions, our behaviors, and our health. The podcast also discusses tools for measuring and changing how our nervous system works. Dr. Andrew Huberman is a tenured Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine. His laboratory studies neural regeneration, neuroplasticity, and brain states such as stress, focus, fear, and optimal performance. For more than 20 years, Dr. Huberman has consistently published original research findings and review articles in top-level peer-reviewed journals, including Nature, Cell, Neuron, and Current Biology. He is a regular member of several National Institutes of Health review panels and a Fellow of the McKnight Foundation and the Pew Charitable Trusts. Dr. Huberman regularly consults for technology development companies, professional athletic organizations, and various units of the United States and Canadian Special Operations. His bulldog’s name is Costello.
- Damogran6 5y agoI've had some short term memory issues (I'm 51) that seem to, more than not, be attributed to working from home during COVID. As we're coming out of it, I see it gradually diminishing with the hopes of doing new things, getting out of the house, and doing 'a little more now rather than waiting for an eventuality that might never happen.' I think it's a combination of a lack of stimuli, anxiety with work (I'm far from alone in our local employment where folks are underutilized and 'waiting to proceed', and a rut between the bed, the couch and the home office. I was (and am) getting exercise, but there needs to be more than that to continue to be mentally happy. I think some of it was a psychological over-attribution to normal forgetfulness...people forget things...older people can proportionally forget more things...it's not [necessarily] early onset dementia, not during a pandemic.
- vsareto 5y agoDoes opening windows help at all? If so, might be the air in your home also contributing
- Damogran6 5y agoQuite possibly. There were some contributing factors (massive change in senior leadership, followed by an immediate re-org that stretched out over months where a majority of staff didn't know their roles) that make it hard to put my thumb on any one contributing factor. But a small environment, with no long-term goals + the sheer terror of a pandemic and unstable government fed by the media machine...isn't healthy.
- frozenport 5y agoMaybe you're getting old?
- Damogran6 5y agoAin't no maybe about it.
- mastrsushi 5y agoSo they’ll forever regret going to college?
- ipiz0618 5y agoI recently watched a video about Martha Argerich [1], one of the most virtuosic pianists when she was young, still performing entire concertos from memory in her 80s. She had cancer twice, recovered, and remains a top performer in classical music. It's amazing how some people could retain so much of their brain's function as they age, while others start to degenerate in their early 30s. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkQleTcck8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkQleTcck8
- submeta 5y agoOne thing that helps keep the brain fresh: Meeting and talking to younger people. And intelligent people. Former‘ll keep you mentally fresh, latter will challenge your thinking.
- bitwize 5y agoI have anecdata to suggest that brains are like muscles. If you work them, they'll stay in good shape for longer. Relative #1 started having "senior moments" a while back but then he got an engineering contract job. Once he was engaged with his life's work again, the "senior moments" went away and he was sharp as ever. Relative #2 retired from work and just started puttering around the house, then went into a deep depression and is now in the early stages of dementia. Without a "life's work" or even a hobby she's passionate about to keep her mind engaged, her memory is in gradual but noticeable decline.
- sinenomine 5y agoHealthy lifestyle and positive attitude are all well and good; however, reporters tend to egregiously overstate their efficacy in a bid to promote these virtues. In academic research, there is a complementary flaw of insufficient controls for genetic confounding, which massively inflates the apparent contribution of individual choices, drawing attention away from the innate causal factors underlying both the outcomes and the capacity to effect them [1][2]. One particularly frustrating consequence of this pattern is that we are most certainly overlooking and underfunding basic life science research that could uncover precise biological mechanisms producing positive outcomes, and instead chase after mere correlates of their presence. In this vein, it is sometimes claimed that human longevity is only weakly heritable, which leads to excessive hope pinned on trivial lifestyle changes. The folly of this is best illustrated by the fact that even in this study superagers often neglect basic rules of healthy lifestyle: 71% of them even smoke. In fact, if we look at longevity in the sample consisting of people who already have reached advanced age (thus excluding the noise produced by infant mortality etc.), heritability estimate increases significantly, the older the sample the greater[3]. >In contrast to the modest heritability estimate for continuous age at death (16%), heritability of surviving past 65 years and surviving past 85 years was substantial at 36% (p = 4.2 × 10 −10 ) and 40% (p = 9.0 × 10 −10 ), respectively. Thus, genetic effects appear to be greater for survival to more advanced ages. In the Framingham Heart Study cohorts, heritability appears to increase with each 10-year increment in survived age (65 years, 75 years, and 85 years) for men, but not women, again suggesting that genetic effects on aging may be more substantial for men than women (20). It is highly likely and in fact supported by growing evidence[4] that the pattern observed for longevity holds for cognitive aging as well. In my humble opinion, it is incumbent upon us to focus on dissecting relevant heritable differences in biological pathways[5][6][7] between the small minority of supercentenarians (and, indeed, "superagers") and people with average lifespans/healthspans, in order to design sound medical treatments which could provide those benefits to the rest of us, less genetically endowed. 1. https://psyarxiv.com/j5x7g/ https://psyarxiv.com/j5x7g/ 2. https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2017-42708-001.pdf https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2017-42708-001.pdf 3. https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/gls089 https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/gls089 4. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23586942/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23586942/ 5. https://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2700 https://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2700 6. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2012.00277/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2012.0027... 7. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11357-006-9020-x https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11357-006-9020-x