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Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride,

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-... It came out later that the private investigator was scamming Elon Musk, and lied to him about finding damaging information. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk-diver-vernon-unsworth-pedo-idiot https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk... Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia. L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable. https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-implicate-chief-justice-john-roberts-in-murder-and-pedophilia/ https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-impl... https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspiracy-theories-as-a-psychiatric-symptom-invites-him-to-play-free-speech-martyr/ https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspi... https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-miscarriage-justice-vernon-unsworth-lawyer-2019-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-mis...

camjohnson26 5y ago
Musk's submarine was a joke. The video of it shows it was clearly too large and too rigid to maneuver through the caves. Musk said they would make a video showing the submarine going from point a to b, but never did. Watch these videos of Unsworth both after the rescue and the trial and compare them to Musk's response. It was absolutely sickening. https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU
- mseidl 5y ago
  I'll have to find the video, but he said that sub wouldn't have made it through the first 50m.
- geomark 5y ago
  I saw and touched the sub; it was featured at a science expo in Bangkok not long after the rescue. It was a metal tube with some plexiglass plates on it with air valves mounted in them. I'm sure there was some engineering involved, but didn't seem at all impressive. My son was a big fan of Elon, the "cool rocket guy". But after his comments about Unsworth he asked me "Why did Elon say that stuff about the man who is a hero?" My son is a Thai boy living in Thailand, close the the same age as the boys who were rescued. Sadly I had to walk back the idea that Elon was a good role model. I thought Unsworth should have sued Elon in Thailand. It wouldn't have meant much since Elon would never travel here again. But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. Again, wouldn't mean much unless Elon forgot about it and ended up traveling to or through a country that would arrest him on behalf of Thailand.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    > But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. While Thailand is certainly within their rights to run their justice system how they want: 1) The punishment doesn't in any way fit the crime. 2) "He's such a hero" is a terrible reason to do something. Focusing on who the person being wronged was is a bad path to justice - it is better to focus on what the perpetrator did. So I hope the courts in Thailand would have found in Musk's favour.
    - Dah00n 5y ago
      How do you know the punishment doesn't fit the crime when the case is a thought experiment at most? Or are you saying that because it would be a criminal case it is too much no matter what? It makes no sense to me that it is too much just because it isn't US style justice. Criminal doesn't mean prison time. It's not like the US justice system is much better (clearly not working at all in this case). Compared to those countries justice systems the US should be compared to it's broken, corrupt and unfair (to the extreme for minorities).
astoor 5y ago
As well as completely transforming many people's view of Musk (he ceased to be "the least bad billionaire" for many), the case also reflected extremely badly on the US legal system, showing that if you are rich enough you can get away with pretty much anything.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  "Least bad billionaire" is a weird tag to give Musk. I mean, there are a bunch of people who either inherited a billion dollars or married into it, and, not being psychopaths, they just decided to spend that money doing good and have done with it. That seems pretty easily to be "less bad" than somebody like Bill Gates, Elon Musk, or Warren Buffett who set out to acquire wealth.. I guess if you've got a really out-there moral utility function maybe saving the eyesight of a million children or whatever counts for nothing while making a slightly better toaster oven is a 100% goal achieved, but outside that I can't see any way Musk could be the "least bad billionaire". Actually I can see a case for a different weird utility function if we also had some billionaires who got wealthy from scientific discoveries or mathematical breakthroughs or philosophical insights. If Martin Hellman had earned $100M per year since the 1980s for licensing fees from DH kex he could be a billionaire and we could argue about whether that's an important thing to give to the world. Or if Judith Butler had become fabulously wealthy explaining to people that gender is a social construct, she'd be a billionaire and we could argue whether that was great. But in reality we do not pay philosophers or cryptographers billions of dollars, that sort of money goes to somebody like Musk or Bezos.
  - shawabawa3 5y ago
    JK Rowling is a good example. She became a billionaire from writing Harry Potter but didn't stay one for long as she donated most of it
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - prteja11 5y ago
mcguire 5y ago
"Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia. "L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable." Bizarre! I saw his suits when I went digging through the post-election hootenanny. Incompetent would be the gentlest way to describe them.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  Roberts has been associated with Epstein (like Gates), so how is that "bizarre"? FYI: all of the election lawsuits had a kernel of truth, but I would agree about "incompetent" - the problem is that lawyers often are not election experts or voting machine experts. Also they were pressed for time on filing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
FearlessNebula 5y ago
This doesn't excuse Elon slandering Vernon Unsworth, but didn't Vernon talk shit about Elon's good faith attempt at making a submarine to try to rescue the people?
- Peritract 5y ago
  He didn't 'talk shit' about a 'good faith attempt'. Unsworth - who knew the cave system - said that Musk's idea was impractical and a PR stunt. Both of those claims are valid and came from a reliable source. During a crisis, there is no particular need to be polite to people getting in the way.
  - FearlessNebula 5y ago
    I thought he called Elon name’s on Twitter and Elon reciprocated (two wrongs don’t make a right). Maybe I am wrong. Even if his idea was impractical, I was under the impression that he made a best effort attempt (I doubt he willingly chose something impractical) and the solution they chose was the better one (divers).
    - camjohnson26 5y ago
      Musk started the Twitter fight after Unsworth gave an interview: https://twitter.com/RickyReports/status/1018597245275557888?s=20 https://twitter.com/RickyReports/status/1018597245275557888?...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - postmeta 5y ago
    https://www.gq.com/story/musk-submarine-where-it-hurts https://www.gq.com/story/musk-submarine-where-it-hurts seems kinda rude, or just british /jk!
- cma 5y ago
  Didn't Elon disrupt the whole operation at one point, traveling there to get footage or an Instagram Story video? It is easy to see what is going on and that it isn't in good faith. Look a his breached commitments during the Flint water crisis (filter every home to below FDA levels), coronavius (produce ventilators), Peurto Rico huricane aftermath, and more. He as a common pattern with these kind of events.
sandworm101 5y ago
>> supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder I miss the good old days when such accusations were extreme. Reporters would hesitate to say the word pedophile on air. Airing such an accusation would almost certainly trigger a serious defamation lawsuit. News outlets would instead talk of unspecified personal accusations. Now, thanks to a certain popular letter-based conspiracy theory, calling any public figure a "satan-worshipping pedophile" doesn't even raise eyebrows. Is is "popular letter-based conspiracy" or "letter-based popular conspiracy"? I'm slipping on my royal order of adjectives.
- Majora320 5y ago
  The former.
- incrudible 5y ago
  If the accusation is ludicrous enough, the "artistic license" defense can work. Alex Jones has used it. Tucker Carlson has used it. Rachel Maddow has used it. There's a difference between serious factual reporting and shitposting on Twitter. The fact that some readers might not be able to distinguish the two may be disturbing, but it should not guide jurisdiction.
jb775 5y ago
I find it interesting that you position this guy as a "hero" with supporting arguments being that he brought failed legal action against someone else for calling him a name on twitter, while implying the reason he lost was because the hero chose to hire a crazy lawyer. Then say he's clearly a hero since the lawyer he chose has opinions about things you don't personally agree with, as if that has any relevance whatsoever to the legal case here.
- nick0garvey 5y ago
  Pretty sure the reason he is being positioned as a hero is due to his involvement in literally saving the lives of 12 children.
postmeta 5y ago
https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1017914936289349635 https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1017914936289349635 sounds kinda rude, but not worth a reply

camjohnson26 5y ago

Musk's submarine was a joke. The video of it shows it was clearly too large and too rigid to maneuver through the caves. Musk said they would make a video showing the submarine going from point a to b, but never did. Watch these videos of Unsworth both after the rescue and the trial and compare them to Musk's response. It was absolutely sickening. https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU

mseidl 5y ago
I'll have to find the video, but he said that sub wouldn't have made it through the first 50m.
geomark 5y ago
I saw and touched the sub; it was featured at a science expo in Bangkok not long after the rescue. It was a metal tube with some plexiglass plates on it with air valves mounted in them. I'm sure there was some engineering involved, but didn't seem at all impressive. My son was a big fan of Elon, the "cool rocket guy". But after his comments about Unsworth he asked me "Why did Elon say that stuff about the man who is a hero?" My son is a Thai boy living in Thailand, close the the same age as the boys who were rescued. Sadly I had to walk back the idea that Elon was a good role model. I thought Unsworth should have sued Elon in Thailand. It wouldn't have meant much since Elon would never travel here again. But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. Again, wouldn't mean much unless Elon forgot about it and ended up traveling to or through a country that would arrest him on behalf of Thailand.
- roenxi 5y ago
  > But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. While Thailand is certainly within their rights to run their justice system how they want: 1) The punishment doesn't in any way fit the crime. 2) "He's such a hero" is a terrible reason to do something. Focusing on who the person being wronged was is a bad path to justice - it is better to focus on what the perpetrator did. So I hope the courts in Thailand would have found in Musk's favour.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    How do you know the punishment doesn't fit the crime when the case is a thought experiment at most? Or are you saying that because it would be a criminal case it is too much no matter what? It makes no sense to me that it is too much just because it isn't US style justice. Criminal doesn't mean prison time. It's not like the US justice system is much better (clearly not working at all in this case). Compared to those countries justice systems the US should be compared to it's broken, corrupt and unfair (to the extreme for minorities).

astoor 5y ago

As well as completely transforming many people's view of Musk (he ceased to be "the least bad billionaire" for many), the case also reflected extremely badly on the US legal system, showing that if you are rich enough you can get away with pretty much anything.

tialaramex 5y ago
"Least bad billionaire" is a weird tag to give Musk. I mean, there are a bunch of people who either inherited a billion dollars or married into it, and, not being psychopaths, they just decided to spend that money doing good and have done with it. That seems pretty easily to be "less bad" than somebody like Bill Gates, Elon Musk, or Warren Buffett who set out to acquire wealth.. I guess if you've got a really out-there moral utility function maybe saving the eyesight of a million children or whatever counts for nothing while making a slightly better toaster oven is a 100% goal achieved, but outside that I can't see any way Musk could be the "least bad billionaire". Actually I can see a case for a different weird utility function if we also had some billionaires who got wealthy from scientific discoveries or mathematical breakthroughs or philosophical insights. If Martin Hellman had earned $100M per year since the 1980s for licensing fees from DH kex he could be a billionaire and we could argue about whether that's an important thing to give to the world. Or if Judith Butler had become fabulously wealthy explaining to people that gender is a social construct, she'd be a billionaire and we could argue whether that was great. But in reality we do not pay philosophers or cryptographers billions of dollars, that sort of money goes to somebody like Musk or Bezos.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  JK Rowling is a good example. She became a billionaire from writing Harry Potter but didn't stay one for long as she donated most of it
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - prteja11 5y ago

mcguire 5y ago

"Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia. "L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable." Bizarre! I saw his suits when I went digging through the post-election hootenanny. Incompetent would be the gentlest way to describe them.

redis_mlc 5y ago
Roberts has been associated with Epstein (like Gates), so how is that "bizarre"? FYI: all of the election lawsuits had a kernel of truth, but I would agree about "incompetent" - the problem is that lawyers often are not election experts or voting machine experts. Also they were pressed for time on filing.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

FearlessNebula 5y ago

This doesn't excuse Elon slandering Vernon Unsworth, but didn't Vernon talk shit about Elon's good faith attempt at making a submarine to try to rescue the people?

Peritract 5y ago
He didn't 'talk shit' about a 'good faith attempt'. Unsworth - who knew the cave system - said that Musk's idea was impractical and a PR stunt. Both of those claims are valid and came from a reliable source. During a crisis, there is no particular need to be polite to people getting in the way.
- FearlessNebula 5y ago
  I thought he called Elon name’s on Twitter and Elon reciprocated (two wrongs don’t make a right). Maybe I am wrong. Even if his idea was impractical, I was under the impression that he made a best effort attempt (I doubt he willingly chose something impractical) and the solution they chose was the better one (divers).
  - camjohnson26 5y ago
    Musk started the Twitter fight after Unsworth gave an interview: https://twitter.com/RickyReports/status/1018597245275557888?s=20 https://twitter.com/RickyReports/status/1018597245275557888?...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- postmeta 5y ago
  https://www.gq.com/story/musk-submarine-where-it-hurts https://www.gq.com/story/musk-submarine-where-it-hurts seems kinda rude, or just british /jk!
cma 5y ago
Didn't Elon disrupt the whole operation at one point, traveling there to get footage or an Instagram Story video? It is easy to see what is going on and that it isn't in good faith. Look a his breached commitments during the Flint water crisis (filter every home to below FDA levels), coronavius (produce ventilators), Peurto Rico huricane aftermath, and more. He as a common pattern with these kind of events.

sandworm101 5y ago

>> supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder I miss the good old days when such accusations were extreme. Reporters would hesitate to say the word pedophile on air. Airing such an accusation would almost certainly trigger a serious defamation lawsuit. News outlets would instead talk of unspecified personal accusations. Now, thanks to a certain popular letter-based conspiracy theory, calling any public figure a "satan-worshipping pedophile" doesn't even raise eyebrows. Is is "popular letter-based conspiracy" or "letter-based popular conspiracy"? I'm slipping on my royal order of adjectives.

Majora320 5y ago
The former.
incrudible 5y ago
If the accusation is ludicrous enough, the "artistic license" defense can work. Alex Jones has used it. Tucker Carlson has used it. Rachel Maddow has used it. There's a difference between serious factual reporting and shitposting on Twitter. The fact that some readers might not be able to distinguish the two may be disturbing, but it should not guide jurisdiction.

jb775 5y ago

I find it interesting that you position this guy as a "hero" with supporting arguments being that he brought failed legal action against someone else for calling him a name on twitter, while implying the reason he lost was because the hero chose to hire a crazy lawyer. Then say he's clearly a hero since the lawyer he chose has opinions about things you don't personally agree with, as if that has any relevance whatsoever to the legal case here.

nick0garvey 5y ago
Pretty sure the reason he is being positioned as a hero is due to his involvement in literally saving the lives of 12 children.

postmeta 5y ago

https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1017914936289349635 https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1017914936289349635 sounds kinda rude, but not worth a reply