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The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really

by fab1an 5y ago

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. Tom Mueller in particular deserves far more credit.
- tedivm 5y ago
  Gwynne Shotwell deserves far more of the credit for SpaceX than Musk does.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Most large companies have people that deserve more credit than the sitting CEO. However, that's part of the role of CEO is to be the one people look to as being in "charge". Musk definitely doesn't shy away from that part to his detrement (clearly he doesn't see it that way). But I'm firmly with the previous poster in that I like what Tesla/SpaceX are doing and attempting, but think Musk is a bit of a tool. The irony is not lost on me that sometimes a calmer figurehead might not have been able to lead to success a company like Tesla and/or SpaceX.
  - s5300 5y ago
    And Musk repeatedly publicly gives this to her/says this himself.
  - abraae 5y ago
    I'm no fan of Musk's shitty and arrogant behaviour. His treatment of Unsworth was truly disgusting. But that's like saying after a rugby game that the left wing deserved far more of the credit than the coach or captain, since they were the one who ran in the winning try. The thing is that Musk makes things happen. Not in some lame and purely money driven field like crypto or ad tech - but genuinely moving the needle in combating climate change. I feel I have to cut him some slack and laud his achievements, even though he comes across as a person you would involuntarily punch in the face for his hideous behaviour.
    - lazyasciiart 5y ago
      No, it's more like saying the left winger deserves more credit than some stupid fan who jumped onto the pitch and got in the way.
    - tedivm 5y ago
      Gwynne Shotwell is the coach in this hypothetical, while Musk is just the mascot.
- _tulpa 5y ago
  I don't really see what Elon actually does beyond cultivating public image and having money.
  - jamiek88 5y ago
    Let’s not go too far the other way now. He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.
    - delecti 5y ago
      Edit: I can admit when I'm wrong. I stand by my assertion that it's absurd to call him a founder of Tesla, but his position in SpaceX seems to be legit. ~~He may be credited as chief engineer at SpaceX, but that doesn't mean he's meaningfully contributing to actual engineering efforts.~~ He's also credited as a founder of Tesla, despite not actually being involved in the founding of that company.
      - kiba 5y ago
        Elon Musk is a real engineer, especially if other engineers said he's an engineer.[1] Whatever his history is with other people or whatever his personality flaws or weakness, he's the real deal. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
        Dah00n 5y ago
        >if other engineers said he's an engineer Nonsense! Engineer is an education, not a job title. It's no different than Musk calling himself Doctor. He either went to school for years to become an engineer or he isn't one.
        emptysongglass 5y ago
        I'm a software engineer. I do software engineering with other software engineers. But I didn't go to school for it, I was self-taught. That doesn't make me less of an engineer. It's ok to express an opinion about Musk either way. You can not like him for all kinds of reasons. But he actually wrote video games as a kid growing up. He wrote code at his earliest startups and a lot of it.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. We also need to hold him to account when Musk tries to ruin the lives of his employees who speak up about what goes on in his companies. He even tried to frame one of them as a mass shooter to police[1] in an effort to get them SWAT'd. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon-musk-tried-to-destroy-tesla-whistleblower-martin-tripp https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - NavinF 5y ago
    Source does not support your claim. It says that an anonymous tip got the employee swatted.
    - yarcob 5y ago
      Musk has a history of going after people who critisize him in public. He (and his staff) have again and again attacked journalists, former employees, and anyone else who said anything bad about Tesla or Musk. A common thread is that they always try to present critics as liars and try to destroy their reputation. It's happened so often, that we must assume it's their standard method of operation. And whether that call was made by Musk himself or someone he instructed to ruin that persons life doesn't really make a difference. The fact is that Musk himself or one of his bullies lied to the police and they got away with it.
      - TeMPOraL 5y ago
        > Musk has a history of going after people who critisize him in public. Does he? Can you name three cases? > He (and his staff) have again and again attacked journalists, former employees, and anyone else who said anything bad about Tesla or Musk. Again, can you name three cases where Musk went after a journalist or former employees, and we know, beyond reasonable doubt, that the victim was right - and not, in fact, lying through their teeth? I ask because there is documented history of the reverse happening. Consider: 1. Top Gear did a hit piece on their first car, lying about its range (55 vs. 200 miles). This doesn't sound serious until you realize that, back then, people didn't believe in electric cars, mostly because of range worries. This kind of bullshit was arguably life-threatening not just to Tesla, but to the entire EV industry. Anyway, Tesla sued for libel and lost[0]. Here's a kicker: they lost because the judge deemed Top Gear is an entertainment show and not documentary, therefore they're not obliged to be factually accurate. 2. The incident with Top Gear made Tesla install telemetry in the cars given out for test drives; this came in handy few years later, when John Broder from New York Times decided to publish a hit piece on Model S[1]. Tesla then released data from the logs, directly contradicting the story, and demonstrating that Broder put in extensive effort to fabricate the bad results he then reported on. I can't blame them from being a bit sensitive after situations like these. For the past decade, there were, and still are, a lot of people standing to make boatloads of money from bringing Tesla and the EV market down. -- [0] - https://www.wired.com/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/ https://www.wired.com/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/ [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/feb/14/tesla-post-data-times-review https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/feb/14/tesla-pos...
- jimbob45 5y ago
  No one here turns a blind eye to his labor practices. Everyone here at HN knows to steer clear. It’s everyone that doesn’t frequent this website that needs enlightening.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  > We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Aren't there legal systems to make sure that's being done right? Is "we" some labor inspectors? If you want to give credit to engineers, where does it end? There are millions of engineers in the world doing important things. Crediting that many people will dilute the value of it all.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Aren't there legal systems to make sure that's being done right? Is "we" some labor inspectors? "We" can be past, current and future employees, who might not contact or work with labor inspectors out of reverence to "the mission" or Musk himself.
- sx_throwaway 5y ago
  I used to work at one of the Musk companies. He was a huge mark in the "cons" column when I was deciding whether or not to take the job. He is embarrassing and he made me a little ashamed to say where I worked. I did my best to ignore him and I suspect others did too. No one ever talked about him.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Musk first appeared as what eventually became that universally loved company, PayPal. Which he was booted out of. Twice.
throwaway2048 5y ago
Lets not make this comments section about an idiots disparagement of a hero.
camjohnson26 5y ago
Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-... It came out later that the private investigator was scamming Elon Musk, and lied to him about finding damaging information. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk-diver-vernon-unsworth-pedo-idiot https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk... Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia. L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable. https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-implicate-chief-justice-john-roberts-in-murder-and-pedophilia/ https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-impl... https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspiracy-theories-as-a-psychiatric-symptom-invites-him-to-play-free-speech-martyr/ https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspi... https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-miscarriage-justice-vernon-unsworth-lawyer-2019-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-mis...
- camjohnson26 5y ago
  Musk's submarine was a joke. The video of it shows it was clearly too large and too rigid to maneuver through the caves. Musk said they would make a video showing the submarine going from point a to b, but never did. Watch these videos of Unsworth both after the rescue and the trial and compare them to Musk's response. It was absolutely sickening. https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wdr1 5y ago
A good recap on the Musk aspect: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17576302/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17576302/elon-musk-thai-cave-r...
hyperpallium2 5y ago
Consider: why wouldn't a Mars colony be an Elon company town?
wnevets 5y ago
That was the exact moment I decided I would never buy a Tesla despite wanting one.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  The good news is that the Tesla is far from your only option for an electric car at this point.
  - sundvor 5y ago
    Pretty much thanks to Tesla. Electric cars wouldn't be anywhere near where they are today without him - whatever we may think of his personality, the advancements in tech and environmental impacts for generations to come are real.
    - argomo 5y ago
      Perhaps, perhaps not. The market innovation of Tesla--selling electric vehicles based on sportiness and performance rather than eco-friendliness--pre-dates musk's involvement with the company.
      - wnevets 5y ago
        The need for a certain portion of the internet to defend Musk at all times is absolutely weird.
        fastball 5y ago
        Yin and Yang. The defenders come out of the woodwork at approximately the same moment the attackers do.
        wnevets 5y ago
        Why tho? Musk calls someone a pedophile for petty reasons, he gets called out for it and his defenders respond by saying he is the reason the electric car market exist. It's absolutely bizarre.
rowanG077 5y ago
Well not to say that it was not smart what Musk did. The guy did shitpost first and Musk responded. It's not like Musk just out of nowhere started hammering the guy.
- A_non_e-moose 5y ago
  Pedophilia accusations might be just a tad overescalated as a response to "your sub sucks"...
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    I agree. But I already said that.
ryzvonusef 5y ago
>I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story I did, and it's shocking how something only a few years away, and so publicly recorded, has been so muddled. There was this thai journalist I had been following on twitter to get all details on the whole situation, pity I forgot the account. anyhoo, here is the cliffnotes version from my memory, apologies if I got something wrong, I'm not a journalist, can't be arsed to dig through the old tweets (but a more tech savvy person could probably do so easily, they are still there iirc): ---- 1- people on twitter start asking musk for help, and a thai telecommunication/satellite/something CEO contacts him for help, Musk's own employees personally asks him and volunteer to help, Musk decided to dive in. 2- First option they decided (and something everyone was tweeting at him) was to use his Boring tunnel Drills, he flew his boring tunnel team on the SpaceX jet to check, they realized ground was too unstable to drill, so that that option was closed, but the team was still there, with their geology sensing equipment and what not. 3- Iirc tesla gave some powerwalls to run the base camp somewhere in the timeline, but don't recall any other help for that musk company. 4- They are in discussion with the rescue team, the main issue is that the kids might be malnourish and not able to make the journey, you can't send wheelchairs and stretchers, so Musk's team is asked to make some alternatives 5- key point is that it was a two way collaborative process, Musk's team didn't unilaterally offer his "submarine", iirc, Musk shared emails from the rescue team leader to that affect. 6- the first product made was NOT the submarine. There is a video, where tesla or spacex suppliers (i.e a seperate company, but affiliated with one of musk's business) made this really cool rubber/plastic/something stretcher/wrap like item for free, that would help carry a weak child through the tunnel and float in the watery bits, but iirc it was not used because time was running out. In the analogy, this was the wheel chair equivalent, since the child was supposed to hold himself together somewhat, and was an aid, the child would have to be submerged and breath from an oxygen tank, but the aid would help him bind to a rescuer and not sink or float away, not be too big a burden on the rescuer. 7-The Submarine was the a quicker and more urgent solution, and was for a child that was totally unconscious. This is the ambulance stretcher equivalent, where the child simply has no control. The idea was proposed by the spacex/boring tunnel team (they were the same company basically then) to quickly re-furbish and use an existing falcon tube. Here is a quick reminder, the Tunnel was essentially like the Letter M, and there was tight points and lower water points, The "submarine" was NOT meant for the tighter points, and only for the lower and longer water-logged bits, where the child could not be presumed to even breath from an oxygen tank. The idea was to ONLY use the submarine (hence the name) in some of the longer bits, where the child was to be locked in with the necessary oxygen, and then removed once again, especially during the tight bits, where the submarine wouldn't, as many internet sleuths pointed out, fit. this was tool of absolute desperation, and this why the rescue team had been in contact with musk's team, time was running out and they feared the children wouldn't be able to move on their on. Luckily it wasn't needed, but there was a genuine fear. 8- But then the rescue happened, and the submarine was not used, since things were not that bad as feared, but still, it was anything goes till that point. Things start to unravel after that, since because the item was not used, people thought the item was useless. 9-vernon said some unkind things about musks's submarine (not sure if warranted), musk flips his cool and says some REALLY bad things about vernon (totally not warranted), some shyster gets involved and fools musk into thinking vernon was an actually pedo (dude can land rockets, but he was not so smart on the conman front) the lawsuit happens, musk wins because insulting people is not a crime in the US, and so here we are. ----- E&OE I think people forget that behind the rescue operation were actual people, not named musk or vernon. first of all were the actual thai kids, whose sitaution was getting precarious day by dat. Secondly were the rescuers, who were worried about the rescue and were looking at any and all who could help. then there were the people working in musk's team. One of the people was a thai spacex employee for example, and this was personal to him, and he was responsible for getting musk involved, iirc. the submarine idea was not musk's, but his spacex employees, and all he did was give them a blank cheque in using company resources. yes musk was a an absolute cnut in insulting vernon that way, and in no way justifies his crass remarks, but behind him flipping his cap, was him being insulted on behalf of not just himself but his employees and his suppliers, who had volunteered for free, and were not deserving of vernon's unkind remarks(though again, simply not comparable to musks's remarks, he should just have shut the fcuk up) Life moves on, those spacex/tesla/boring company employees and suppliers have moved on, heck even vernon and musk have moved on after the lawsuit, but we are all still stuck here in this strange world of half truths and misinformation. I think the real victims of this whole musk-vernon fiasco has been the capacity for silicon valley nerds to volunteer their skills, I doubt those spacex/boring tunnel employees/suppliers would ever venture to volunteer on such a scale again, much easier to keep quiet and work the beaten path, at soup kitchens or some "approved" setup like UN etc, much safer options to give back.

by fab1an 5y ago

jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago

When Musk first appeared I was hugely supportive. Definitely a fan of what he was doing both with SpaceX and Tesla. I'm still a fan of what those companies are doing but Elon has destroyed my view of him with his own behavior and words. We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. Tom Mueller in particular deserves far more credit.

tedivm 5y ago
Gwynne Shotwell deserves far more of the credit for SpaceX than Musk does.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Most large companies have people that deserve more credit than the sitting CEO. However, that's part of the role of CEO is to be the one people look to as being in "charge". Musk definitely doesn't shy away from that part to his detrement (clearly he doesn't see it that way). But I'm firmly with the previous poster in that I like what Tesla/SpaceX are doing and attempting, but think Musk is a bit of a tool. The irony is not lost on me that sometimes a calmer figurehead might not have been able to lead to success a company like Tesla and/or SpaceX.
- s5300 5y ago
  And Musk repeatedly publicly gives this to her/says this himself.
- abraae 5y ago
  I'm no fan of Musk's shitty and arrogant behaviour. His treatment of Unsworth was truly disgusting. But that's like saying after a rugby game that the left wing deserved far more of the credit than the coach or captain, since they were the one who ran in the winning try. The thing is that Musk makes things happen. Not in some lame and purely money driven field like crypto or ad tech - but genuinely moving the needle in combating climate change. I feel I have to cut him some slack and laud his achievements, even though he comes across as a person you would involuntarily punch in the face for his hideous behaviour.
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    No, it's more like saying the left winger deserves more credit than some stupid fan who jumped onto the pitch and got in the way.
  - tedivm 5y ago
    Gwynne Shotwell is the coach in this hypothetical, while Musk is just the mascot.
_tulpa 5y ago
I don't really see what Elon actually does beyond cultivating public image and having money.
- jamiek88 5y ago
  Let’s not go too far the other way now. He’s chief engineer at spacex for starters.
  - delecti 5y ago
    Edit: I can admit when I'm wrong. I stand by my assertion that it's absurd to call him a founder of Tesla, but his position in SpaceX seems to be legit. ~~He may be credited as chief engineer at SpaceX, but that doesn't mean he's meaningfully contributing to actual engineering efforts.~~ He's also credited as a founder of Tesla, despite not actually being involved in the founding of that company.
    - kiba 5y ago
      Elon Musk is a real engineer, especially if other engineers said he's an engineer.[1] Whatever his history is with other people or whatever his personality flaws or weakness, he's the real deal. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
      - Dah00n 5y ago
        >if other engineers said he's an engineer Nonsense! Engineer is an education, not a job title. It's no different than Musk calling himself Doctor. He either went to school for years to become an engineer or he isn't one.
        emptysongglass 5y ago
        I'm a software engineer. I do software engineering with other software engineers. But I didn't go to school for it, I was self-taught. That doesn't make me less of an engineer. It's ok to express an opinion about Musk either way. You can not like him for all kinds of reasons. But he actually wrote video games as a kid growing up. He wrote code at his earliest startups and a lot of it.
heavyset_go 5y ago
> We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Likewise, we should give the engineers and other workers that are actually accomplishing these things more credit, vs pretending it's one lone genius. We also need to hold him to account when Musk tries to ruin the lives of his employees who speak up about what goes on in his companies. He even tried to frame one of them as a mass shooter to police[1] in an effort to get them SWAT'd. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon-musk-tried-to-destroy-tesla-whistleblower-martin-tripp https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-13/when-elon...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- NavinF 5y ago
  Source does not support your claim. It says that an anonymous tip got the employee swatted.
  - yarcob 5y ago
    Musk has a history of going after people who critisize him in public. He (and his staff) have again and again attacked journalists, former employees, and anyone else who said anything bad about Tesla or Musk. A common thread is that they always try to present critics as liars and try to destroy their reputation. It's happened so often, that we must assume it's their standard method of operation. And whether that call was made by Musk himself or someone he instructed to ruin that persons life doesn't really make a difference. The fact is that Musk himself or one of his bullies lied to the police and they got away with it.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      > Musk has a history of going after people who critisize him in public. Does he? Can you name three cases? > He (and his staff) have again and again attacked journalists, former employees, and anyone else who said anything bad about Tesla or Musk. Again, can you name three cases where Musk went after a journalist or former employees, and we know, beyond reasonable doubt, that the victim was right - and not, in fact, lying through their teeth? I ask because there is documented history of the reverse happening. Consider: 1. Top Gear did a hit piece on their first car, lying about its range (55 vs. 200 miles). This doesn't sound serious until you realize that, back then, people didn't believe in electric cars, mostly because of range worries. This kind of bullshit was arguably life-threatening not just to Tesla, but to the entire EV industry. Anyway, Tesla sued for libel and lost[0]. Here's a kicker: they lost because the judge deemed Top Gear is an entertainment show and not documentary, therefore they're not obliged to be factually accurate. 2. The incident with Top Gear made Tesla install telemetry in the cars given out for test drives; this came in handy few years later, when John Broder from New York Times decided to publish a hit piece on Model S[1]. Tesla then released data from the logs, directly contradicting the story, and demonstrating that Broder put in extensive effort to fabricate the bad results he then reported on. I can't blame them from being a bit sensitive after situations like these. For the past decade, there were, and still are, a lot of people standing to make boatloads of money from bringing Tesla and the EV market down. -- [0] - https://www.wired.com/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/ https://www.wired.com/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/ [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/feb/14/tesla-post-data-times-review https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/feb/14/tesla-pos...
jimbob45 5y ago
No one here turns a blind eye to his labor practices. Everyone here at HN knows to steer clear. It’s everyone that doesn’t frequent this website that needs enlightening.
exporectomy 5y ago
> We should stop turning a blind eye to his labor practices. Aren't there legal systems to make sure that's being done right? Is "we" some labor inspectors? If you want to give credit to engineers, where does it end? There are millions of engineers in the world doing important things. Crediting that many people will dilute the value of it all.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Aren't there legal systems to make sure that's being done right? Is "we" some labor inspectors? "We" can be past, current and future employees, who might not contact or work with labor inspectors out of reverence to "the mission" or Musk himself.
sx_throwaway 5y ago
I used to work at one of the Musk companies. He was a huge mark in the "cons" column when I was deciding whether or not to take the job. He is embarrassing and he made me a little ashamed to say where I worked. I did my best to ignore him and I suspect others did too. No one ever talked about him.
mcguire 5y ago
Musk first appeared as what eventually became that universally loved company, PayPal. Which he was booted out of. Twice.

throwaway2048 5y ago

Lets not make this comments section about an idiots disparagement of a hero.

camjohnson26 5y ago

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-... It came out later that the private investigator was scamming Elon Musk, and lied to him about finding damaging information. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk-diver-vernon-unsworth-pedo-idiot https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/08/elon-musk... Bizarrely, Unsworth's lawyer was L Lin Wood, famous for later apparently having a mental breakdown and supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder, and being asked to undergo a mental examination by the state bar of Georgia. L Lin Wood's handling of the Unsworth trial was widely panned as incompetent. Unsworth is clearly a hero, and Musk inserting himself into that situation and permanently tainting Unsworth's name was unconscionable. https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-implicate-chief-justice-john-roberts-in-murder-and-pedophilia/ https://reason.com/2020/12/31/pro-trump-lawyer-tries-to-impl... https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspiracy-theories-as-a-psychiatric-symptom-invites-him-to-play-free-speech-martyr/ https://reason.com/2021/01/31/treating-lin-woods-wild-conspi... https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-miscarriage-justice-vernon-unsworth-lawyer-2019-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-defamation-win-mis...

camjohnson26 5y ago
Musk's submarine was a joke. The video of it shows it was clearly too large and too rigid to maneuver through the caves. Musk said they would make a video showing the submarine going from point a to b, but never did. Watch these videos of Unsworth both after the rescue and the trial and compare them to Musk's response. It was absolutely sickening. https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50698294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJZGcj5KHU

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

wdr1 5y ago

A good recap on the Musk aspect: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17576302/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescue-submarine https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17576302/elon-musk-thai-cave-r...

hyperpallium2 5y ago

Consider: why wouldn't a Mars colony be an Elon company town?

wnevets 5y ago

That was the exact moment I decided I would never buy a Tesla despite wanting one.

saalweachter 5y ago
The good news is that the Tesla is far from your only option for an electric car at this point.
- sundvor 5y ago
  Pretty much thanks to Tesla. Electric cars wouldn't be anywhere near where they are today without him - whatever we may think of his personality, the advancements in tech and environmental impacts for generations to come are real.
  - argomo 5y ago
    Perhaps, perhaps not. The market innovation of Tesla--selling electric vehicles based on sportiness and performance rather than eco-friendliness--pre-dates musk's involvement with the company.
    - wnevets 5y ago
      The need for a certain portion of the internet to defend Musk at all times is absolutely weird.
      - fastball 5y ago
        Yin and Yang. The defenders come out of the woodwork at approximately the same moment the attackers do.
        wnevets 5y ago
        Why tho? Musk calls someone a pedophile for petty reasons, he gets called out for it and his defenders respond by saying he is the reason the electric car market exist. It's absolutely bizarre.

rowanG077 5y ago

Well not to say that it was not smart what Musk did. The guy did shitpost first and Musk responded. It's not like Musk just out of nowhere started hammering the guy.

A_non_e-moose 5y ago
Pedophilia accusations might be just a tad overescalated as a response to "your sub sucks"...
- rowanG077 5y ago
  I agree. But I already said that.

ryzvonusef 5y ago

>I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story I did, and it's shocking how something only a few years away, and so publicly recorded, has been so muddled. There was this thai journalist I had been following on twitter to get all details on the whole situation, pity I forgot the account. anyhoo, here is the cliffnotes version from my memory, apologies if I got something wrong, I'm not a journalist, can't be arsed to dig through the old tweets (but a more tech savvy person could probably do so easily, they are still there iirc): ---- 1- people on twitter start asking musk for help, and a thai telecommunication/satellite/something CEO contacts him for help, Musk's own employees personally asks him and volunteer to help, Musk decided to dive in. 2- First option they decided (and something everyone was tweeting at him) was to use his Boring tunnel Drills, he flew his boring tunnel team on the SpaceX jet to check, they realized ground was too unstable to drill, so that that option was closed, but the team was still there, with their geology sensing equipment and what not. 3- Iirc tesla gave some powerwalls to run the base camp somewhere in the timeline, but don't recall any other help for that musk company. 4- They are in discussion with the rescue team, the main issue is that the kids might be malnourish and not able to make the journey, you can't send wheelchairs and stretchers, so Musk's team is asked to make some alternatives 5- key point is that it was a two way collaborative process, Musk's team didn't unilaterally offer his "submarine", iirc, Musk shared emails from the rescue team leader to that affect. 6- the first product made was NOT the submarine. There is a video, where tesla or spacex suppliers (i.e a seperate company, but affiliated with one of musk's business) made this really cool rubber/plastic/something stretcher/wrap like item for free, that would help carry a weak child through the tunnel and float in the watery bits, but iirc it was not used because time was running out. In the analogy, this was the wheel chair equivalent, since the child was supposed to hold himself together somewhat, and was an aid, the child would have to be submerged and breath from an oxygen tank, but the aid would help him bind to a rescuer and not sink or float away, not be too big a burden on the rescuer. 7-The Submarine was the a quicker and more urgent solution, and was for a child that was totally unconscious. This is the ambulance stretcher equivalent, where the child simply has no control. The idea was proposed by the spacex/boring tunnel team (they were the same company basically then) to quickly re-furbish and use an existing falcon tube. Here is a quick reminder, the Tunnel was essentially like the Letter M, and there was tight points and lower water points, The "submarine" was NOT meant for the tighter points, and only for the lower and longer water-logged bits, where the child could not be presumed to even breath from an oxygen tank. The idea was to ONLY use the submarine (hence the name) in some of the longer bits, where the child was to be locked in with the necessary oxygen, and then removed once again, especially during the tight bits, where the submarine wouldn't, as many internet sleuths pointed out, fit. this was tool of absolute desperation, and this why the rescue team had been in contact with musk's team, time was running out and they feared the children wouldn't be able to move on their on. Luckily it wasn't needed, but there was a genuine fear. 8- But then the rescue happened, and the submarine was not used, since things were not that bad as feared, but still, it was anything goes till that point. Things start to unravel after that, since because the item was not used, people thought the item was useless. 9-vernon said some unkind things about musks's submarine (not sure if warranted), musk flips his cool and says some REALLY bad things about vernon (totally not warranted), some shyster gets involved and fools musk into thinking vernon was an actually pedo (dude can land rockets, but he was not so smart on the conman front) the lawsuit happens, musk wins because insulting people is not a crime in the US, and so here we are. ----- E&OE I think people forget that behind the rescue operation were actual people, not named musk or vernon. first of all were the actual thai kids, whose sitaution was getting precarious day by dat. Secondly were the rescuers, who were worried about the rescue and were looking at any and all who could help. then there were the people working in musk's team. One of the people was a thai spacex employee for example, and this was personal to him, and he was responsible for getting musk involved, iirc. the submarine idea was not musk's, but his spacex employees, and all he did was give them a blank cheque in using company resources. yes musk was a an absolute cnut in insulting vernon that way, and in no way justifies his crass remarks, but behind him flipping his cap, was him being insulted on behalf of not just himself but his employees and his suppliers, who had volunteered for free, and were not deserving of vernon's unkind remarks(though again, simply not comparable to musks's remarks, he should just have shut the fcuk up) Life moves on, those spacex/tesla/boring company employees and suppliers have moved on, heck even vernon and musk have moved on after the lawsuit, but we are all still stuck here in this strange world of half truths and misinformation. I think the real victims of this whole musk-vernon fiasco has been the capacity for silicon valley nerds to volunteer their skills, I doubt those spacex/boring tunnel employees/suppliers would ever venture to volunteer on such a scale again, much easier to keep quiet and work the beaten path, at soup kitchens or some "approved" setup like UN etc, much safer options to give back.