4 ms·

> On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit

by bko 5y ago

> On average, in certain locations. In others, not so much. And let's not forget surge pricing. Or people living, or wanting to get to a place, along low-profit routes. Or people with disabilities. You can always take a regular cab. Low profit routes were pretty much impossible to get pre-Uber. I am almost certain that Uber is more likely to obey disability laws than "Joe's taxi" with a few cars. > Depends. Regular taxis tended to cost a bit more, but had much lower variance. My experience with cabs is calling a dispatcher while in route and getting a price. I was charged $30 for a two mile trip to the train station before. No reasoning. Also they were much less likely to pick up minority passengers, or people in poorer neighborhoods. Also "credit card machine was broken" very often. Also you don't know the route the driver will take. I guess my experience with cabs pre-Uber was different from yours, but it was incredibly high variance. > That seems implausible at best. Many places you had a gatekeeper. You can't just ride a taxi, and would have to purchase a medallion or sign on to an existing vendor where there's much less competition. They would also be much less flexible with hours

gentleman11 5y ago
The purpose of the medallions, in theory, is to improve the chances that the average cab driver can make a living wage. Can the average Uber driver live a middle class income from this “gig”? > When accounting for the ride-sharing company’s commissions and fees, vehicle expenses and a modest health insurance package, Uber drivers end up earning just $9.21 in hourly wages, according to a new study from the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning nonprofit think tank based in Washington, D.C. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-drivers-really-make-2018-05-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-driv...
- compsciphd 5y ago
  the average cabby can't buy a medalion, he therefore has to pay a fee to someone who owns a car with a medalion to rent the car for a period of time (+ probably paying the owner a percentage of his take). As opposed to using his own car and keeping everything that uber lets him to keep which might be less than what the medalion owner would have taken. hence, increase in money into pocket for the uber/lyft driver. with that said, this is all supposition, i just find it a reasonable argument.
  - goldcd 5y ago
    I believe they could - and they took out quite horrifically large loans to do so. It maybe made sense though, as your payment was your license to work, and selling the medalion on was your retirement plan. Uber screwed this up - but my feelings are mixed.
  - llampx 5y ago
    The sharecropper / feudal lord model.
    - gremlinsinc 5y ago
      The American Dream Model.
- bko 5y ago
  > The purpose of the medallions, in theory, is to improve the chances that the average cab driver can make a living wage The problem with that is that there is a supply of cab drivers and demand for cabs that drives the price. If you put in a medallion system, the price of the medallion will be bid up such that the cab driver's wage is in line with the market wage. You can't just wave a magic wand and set prices without unintended consequences. So what happened was cab drivers had to take out massive debt to finance these medallions or work for some middle man that is essentially a financing arm. And when the price collapsed, they were stuck with this debt and some even got bailed out by taxpayers. I wish Uber was around when I was younger. I had a car and a lot of spare time. I would have gladly accepted a low wage if I had a few hours to kill. No other job affords that flexibility which is probably why its so popular.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    You can't instantly prevent all unintended consequences, but making it so you can't resell a medallion and you can't subcontract it (or harsh limits on subcontracting) would fix a lot of those issues.
lazyasciiart 5y ago
> I am almost certain that Uber is more likely to obey disability laws than "Joe's taxi" with a few cars. Knowing the lawsuits from people who've been refused rides from a regular Uber because they have a service dog, or their wheelchair 'probably won't fit' (I think I can tell you whether the wheelchair I usually put in the trunk of a car is likely to fit in your trunk, thank you), I am not. But there are also specific accessible taxis. How do I call an Uber that will take a powered wheelchair?
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  UberWAV (wheelchair accessible vehicle) is a thing in “select markets”: https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/uberwav/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/uberwav/ No idea how it works in practice but it’s a thing in Toronto.
- bko 5y ago
  Because people can actually sue Uber and they can get a lot of money and publicity. You can't sue Joe's taxi. I mean you could try, but I don't think people aren't suing because they are follow all applicable laws and regulations to a tee
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    You don’t have to sue Joe’s taxi, you complain to the regulators and they can lose their taxi license. Generally people aren’t suing because it’s expensive and a giant pain to do, which is why having a regulatory body that will handle this stuff is better for consumers than relying on court action.
subpixel 5y ago
> Low profit routes were pretty much impossible to get pre-Uber. In cities, that's absurd - car services existed for decades serving just this part of the market, and they let you schedule in advance! In the suburbs and exurbs, probably less so, but this is where everyone has a car as a prerequisite for living in a house with a multi-car garage.
- xeromal 5y ago
  Something something rose-tinted glasses. You could schedule in advance. Now having them actually show up? That was debatable. lol
  - scythe 5y ago
    The first Uber I ever ordered was after I had scheduled a car with one of these services and it didn't show up.
  - subpixel 5y ago
    Hand to heart I’ve had more Ubers not show up (more than 5) than I did car services over several decades of NYC living. Worse they claimed I didn’t show up.
    - xeromal 5y ago
      I would posit that New York city is probably the best example you could come up with in the United States. Pretty much everywhere else Uber is supreme
      - ebrenes 5y ago
        I don't live in New York City, but when I was there Uber was the absolute best option for our use case, because they were the only option that allowed us to ask for a toddler carseat as an extra. It was a game changer and preferred that over taxis and other car services.
- idiot900 5y ago

by bko 5y ago

gentleman11 5y ago

The purpose of the medallions, in theory, is to improve the chances that the average cab driver can make a living wage. Can the average Uber driver live a middle class income from this “gig”? > When accounting for the ride-sharing company’s commissions and fees, vehicle expenses and a modest health insurance package, Uber drivers end up earning just $9.21 in hourly wages, according to a new study from the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning nonprofit think tank based in Washington, D.C. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-drivers-really-make-2018-05-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-driv...

compsciphd 5y ago
the average cabby can't buy a medalion, he therefore has to pay a fee to someone who owns a car with a medalion to rent the car for a period of time (+ probably paying the owner a percentage of his take). As opposed to using his own car and keeping everything that uber lets him to keep which might be less than what the medalion owner would have taken. hence, increase in money into pocket for the uber/lyft driver. with that said, this is all supposition, i just find it a reasonable argument.
- goldcd 5y ago
  I believe they could - and they took out quite horrifically large loans to do so. It maybe made sense though, as your payment was your license to work, and selling the medalion on was your retirement plan. Uber screwed this up - but my feelings are mixed.
- llampx 5y ago
  The sharecropper / feudal lord model.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    The American Dream Model.
bko 5y ago
> The purpose of the medallions, in theory, is to improve the chances that the average cab driver can make a living wage The problem with that is that there is a supply of cab drivers and demand for cabs that drives the price. If you put in a medallion system, the price of the medallion will be bid up such that the cab driver's wage is in line with the market wage. You can't just wave a magic wand and set prices without unintended consequences. So what happened was cab drivers had to take out massive debt to finance these medallions or work for some middle man that is essentially a financing arm. And when the price collapsed, they were stuck with this debt and some even got bailed out by taxpayers. I wish Uber was around when I was younger. I had a car and a lot of spare time. I would have gladly accepted a low wage if I had a few hours to kill. No other job affords that flexibility which is probably why its so popular.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  You can't instantly prevent all unintended consequences, but making it so you can't resell a medallion and you can't subcontract it (or harsh limits on subcontracting) would fix a lot of those issues.

lazyasciiart 5y ago

> I am almost certain that Uber is more likely to obey disability laws than "Joe's taxi" with a few cars. Knowing the lawsuits from people who've been refused rides from a regular Uber because they have a service dog, or their wheelchair 'probably won't fit' (I think I can tell you whether the wheelchair I usually put in the trunk of a car is likely to fit in your trunk, thank you), I am not. But there are also specific accessible taxis. How do I call an Uber that will take a powered wheelchair?

Scoundreller 5y ago
UberWAV (wheelchair accessible vehicle) is a thing in “select markets”: https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/uberwav/ https://www.uber.com/us/en/ride/uberwav/ No idea how it works in practice but it’s a thing in Toronto.
bko 5y ago
Because people can actually sue Uber and they can get a lot of money and publicity. You can't sue Joe's taxi. I mean you could try, but I don't think people aren't suing because they are follow all applicable laws and regulations to a tee
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  You don’t have to sue Joe’s taxi, you complain to the regulators and they can lose their taxi license. Generally people aren’t suing because it’s expensive and a giant pain to do, which is why having a regulatory body that will handle this stuff is better for consumers than relying on court action.

subpixel 5y ago

> Low profit routes were pretty much impossible to get pre-Uber. In cities, that's absurd - car services existed for decades serving just this part of the market, and they let you schedule in advance! In the suburbs and exurbs, probably less so, but this is where everyone has a car as a prerequisite for living in a house with a multi-car garage.

xeromal 5y ago
Something something rose-tinted glasses. You could schedule in advance. Now having them actually show up? That was debatable. lol
- scythe 5y ago
  The first Uber I ever ordered was after I had scheduled a car with one of these services and it didn't show up.
- subpixel 5y ago
  Hand to heart I’ve had more Ubers not show up (more than 5) than I did car services over several decades of NYC living. Worse they claimed I didn’t show up.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    I would posit that New York city is probably the best example you could come up with in the United States. Pretty much everywhere else Uber is supreme
    - ebrenes 5y ago
      I don't live in New York City, but when I was there Uber was the absolute best option for our use case, because they were the only option that allowed us to ask for a toddler carseat as an extra. It was a game changer and preferred that over taxis and other car services.
idiot900 5y ago