16 ms·

Yeah, this is exactly how the rest of the world feels about US-based companies harvesting dna data for years...

dragonelite 5y ago
Find and replace China with US and reality still makes sense. Then the US expects the rest of the world to follow their rule based order, where no one knows what the freaking rules are except rules for thee but for me(US).
- eru 5y ago
  Most American rules don't apply overseas. Eg they can spy on foreigners all they like.
  - lucian1900 5y ago
    And they have a special rule that they’ll invade The Hague if US war criminals are ever tried there. All those presidents and generals and spooks are safe from justice.
    - Vinnl 5y ago
      You're talking about the The Hague Invasion Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague_Invasion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague_Invasion_Act Just a note, the US doesn't need permission from the Netherlands to invade them, of course. However, as I understand it, usually the US president needs permission from Congress before deciding to invade another country. In this case, Congress has given permission in advance to invade the Netherlands if the ICC tries a US citizen.
      - eru 5y ago
        > However, as I understand it, usually the US president needs permission from Congress before deciding to invade another country. Only for declaration of war. The US hasn't declared war on anyone in since WWII. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_Unit...
  - akudha 5y ago
    Didn’t U.S pharma companies used to sell drugs overseas that is banned on U.S soil? I don’t know if that is still the case. While collecting data like fingerprints etc is bad, collecting DNA is on whole another level. Imagine using it for immigration purposes for example. Or the govt makes you get a license to have kids (like marriage license today) based on DNA traits. These things might sound comical today, but the social score thing sounded comical too, until it became a reality
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Genetic disease screening before marriage, and fetal deformity screening been mandatory in China for decades.
    - eru 5y ago
      > Didn’t U.S pharma companies used to sell drugs overseas that is banned on U.S soil? I don’t know if that is still the case. Well everything that's not approved by the FDA (yet), but already approved somewhere else would fall into this category. That's hardly a black mark against those companies.
- BobbyJo 5y ago
  "No one knows the rules." What? The US legal system is incredibly strictly codified. It's literally the main draw for foreign investment. If you ask any investor on the planet what the largest difference between the US and China is for investments, it's regulatory risk. This is one of the most wildly off base things I've seen people say with regard to US vs China.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    Lots of startup business models have been based around breaking the rules and then asking for forgiveness. See Uber etc
    - BobbyJo 5y ago
      What rules did Uber break? I was under the impression that the startup model was to do things there are no rules for yet, and grow fast enough that you get to influence them when they're made.
      - PedroBatista 5y ago
        > What rules did Uber break? Many and there's a long list. Almost every city had strict rules about passenger transportation, Uber obviously knew this and ignore them all. That's another reason they raised $25.2B in funding over 30 rounds, to become so big even big cities became small compared to them and they could use the "See you in court" tactic, by that point yeah they lose many cases, so what? They are so big cities and governments were pressured to change the laws to suit Uber. Nothing is black and white, before Uber the business wasn't exactly fair and clean but Uber applied the scumbag business tactic to a whole new level and it was amplified by the billions of dollars in funding.
        BobbyJo 5y ago
        Any citations on the laws they broke? Edit: I'll take the down as a 'No' :P
atlasunshrugged 5y ago
The US isn't actively committing genocide against a specific ethnic group right now... I understand the US has done a ton of awful things, but comparing the actions of a democratic country that promotes rule of law globally (although I am well aware sometimes realpolitik and worse happens) versus a country that has no regard for a rules based order or anything other than increasing their own power seems like a false comparison
- disgu 5y ago
  > comparing the actions of a democratic country that promotes rule of law globally (although I am well aware sometimes realpolitik and worse happens) versus a country that has no regard for a rules based order or anything other than increasing their own power seems like a false comparison Are you aware that most of the world sees the US not as a country that promotes the rule of law but the one country that's the biggest risk to world peace? It has been like that for many years. The US completely ignores and shits on every single rule it claims to uphold the very moment it becomes inconvenient to keep following it.
  - deviledeggs 5y ago
    China has imprisoned millions of people in one of the biggest ethnic genocides since Nazi gernany. They murder people to sell their organs. The US is a mess but comparing them to a morally bankrupt genocidal China is disingenuous
    - post_below 5y ago
      Your point is valid but it's a question of degree rather than category. The Uyghur camps are about as evil as you can get, no question, but how much cumulative death and suffering has been caused by decades of destabilizing, bombing and invading the middle east? As just one example. From an outside perspective, no one is buying the US propaganda around the oil wars any more than people are buying Chinese propaganda about their camps. China being arguably worse doesn't evict the US from the category of destructive superpowers. I think there's value in being honest about that.
roenxi 5y ago
The gene data is the mildest thing the US hoovers up. They've been known to target missiles with phone GPS, and they've gathered big chunks of the world's social graph.
zthrowaway 5y ago
US companies have been harvesting DNA data for years without permission? Link? Companies like 23andme have people paying them to research their DNA with permission.
- mercora 5y ago
  i wonder how much information is gained about me if a close relative decides this is a good idea to do...
  - NeutronStar 5y ago
    My twin did it. So much for privacy.
- tracedddd 5y ago
  I don’t think most people understand what they are agreeing to with regards to data sharing or mining. Ethically, burying important aspects in a ToS or privacy policy that you know most people will never read seems pretty wrong, while it may be legal.
- Joool 5y ago
  As others have stated, I do not think that people understand what they sign in the TOS of these companies. In this case the data was actually collected and analyzed with consent (as stated in the article).
- tzs 5y ago
  I don't know about DNA specifically, but blood that is donated to blood banks that ends up not being needed is sometimes used for research. There's probably something about this somewhere in the fine print on something they signed without reading, but most donors aren't aware of it. There has been some controversy over that because there have been lucrative commercial drugs derived from research using such blood, and some feel that the donors should be given a cut of the profits.
  - kube-system 5y ago
frogcoder 5y ago
China does something evil. The U.S. does it too (without giving any evidence). It's OK China doing it now.
- NeutronStar 5y ago
  > It's OK China doing it now. Or it's bad that both does it...
- nceqs3 5y ago
  Chinese bots.
- guilhas 5y ago
  It is just to point the hypocrisies of the discussion tone in HN towards China when USA most times does just the same thing As an example is Uighur camps in China. When USA is the country with most incarcerated in the world in absolute terms, even China with a fraction of the population! And mostly directed at black and poor communities
nomdep 5y ago
No, is not. I know that US-based companies do it for greed: they want more money. If China doesn’t do it for the money, then why? Bio weapons maybe, in any case pain, suffering, and death. I prefer the first, thank you.
LinuxBender 5y ago
And the U.S. military has been collecting DNA of its enlisted since the 1990's. I stalled them long enough to avoid that, but my FOIA made it all the way to Al Gore and tumbled back down in the form of several boxes of generic vaguely worded reports.
Pmop 5y ago
A company based in a democratic country, which gets paid to harvest dna data is a completely different thing from the CCP which holds all the power over all of China and it's entities harvesting dna across the world, with no authorization.
vixen99 5y ago
'America's gene giant harvests data from millions of women worldwide' would be an interesting topic for discussion. As it is we know, as the Hong Kong protesters know, that the CCP runs every aspect of China's activities. So nothing of critical significance happens in China without the knowledge and say-so of the CCP. Clearly that's not analogous to the the situation in the US. Why do they want this data? What are they going to do with it? Maybe they just love collecting data. Is this exercise anymore significant than the similar operations carried out by other countries? And why?

Find and replace China with US and reality still makes sense. Then the US expects the rest of the world to follow their rule based order, where no one knows what the freaking rules are except rules for thee but for me(US).

eru 5y ago
Most American rules don't apply overseas. Eg they can spy on foreigners all they like.
- lucian1900 5y ago
  And they have a special rule that they’ll invade The Hague if US war criminals are ever tried there. All those presidents and generals and spooks are safe from justice.
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    You're talking about the The Hague Invasion Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague_Invasion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague_Invasion_Act Just a note, the US doesn't need permission from the Netherlands to invade them, of course. However, as I understand it, usually the US president needs permission from Congress before deciding to invade another country. In this case, Congress has given permission in advance to invade the Netherlands if the ICC tries a US citizen.
    - eru 5y ago
      > However, as I understand it, usually the US president needs permission from Congress before deciding to invade another country. Only for declaration of war. The US hasn't declared war on anyone in since WWII. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_Unit...
- akudha 5y ago
  Didn’t U.S pharma companies used to sell drugs overseas that is banned on U.S soil? I don’t know if that is still the case. While collecting data like fingerprints etc is bad, collecting DNA is on whole another level. Imagine using it for immigration purposes for example. Or the govt makes you get a license to have kids (like marriage license today) based on DNA traits. These things might sound comical today, but the social score thing sounded comical too, until it became a reality
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Genetic disease screening before marriage, and fetal deformity screening been mandatory in China for decades.
  - eru 5y ago
    > Didn’t U.S pharma companies used to sell drugs overseas that is banned on U.S soil? I don’t know if that is still the case. Well everything that's not approved by the FDA (yet), but already approved somewhere else would fall into this category. That's hardly a black mark against those companies.
BobbyJo 5y ago
"No one knows the rules." What? The US legal system is incredibly strictly codified. It's literally the main draw for foreign investment. If you ask any investor on the planet what the largest difference between the US and China is for investments, it's regulatory risk. This is one of the most wildly off base things I've seen people say with regard to US vs China.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  Lots of startup business models have been based around breaking the rules and then asking for forgiveness. See Uber etc
  - BobbyJo 5y ago
    What rules did Uber break? I was under the impression that the startup model was to do things there are no rules for yet, and grow fast enough that you get to influence them when they're made.
    - PedroBatista 5y ago
      > What rules did Uber break? Many and there's a long list. Almost every city had strict rules about passenger transportation, Uber obviously knew this and ignore them all. That's another reason they raised $25.2B in funding over 30 rounds, to become so big even big cities became small compared to them and they could use the "See you in court" tactic, by that point yeah they lose many cases, so what? They are so big cities and governments were pressured to change the laws to suit Uber. Nothing is black and white, before Uber the business wasn't exactly fair and clean but Uber applied the scumbag business tactic to a whole new level and it was amplified by the billions of dollars in funding.
      - BobbyJo 5y ago
        Any citations on the laws they broke? Edit: I'll take the down as a 'No' :P

atlasunshrugged 5y ago

The US isn't actively committing genocide against a specific ethnic group right now... I understand the US has done a ton of awful things, but comparing the actions of a democratic country that promotes rule of law globally (although I am well aware sometimes realpolitik and worse happens) versus a country that has no regard for a rules based order or anything other than increasing their own power seems like a false comparison

disgu 5y ago
> comparing the actions of a democratic country that promotes rule of law globally (although I am well aware sometimes realpolitik and worse happens) versus a country that has no regard for a rules based order or anything other than increasing their own power seems like a false comparison Are you aware that most of the world sees the US not as a country that promotes the rule of law but the one country that's the biggest risk to world peace? It has been like that for many years. The US completely ignores and shits on every single rule it claims to uphold the very moment it becomes inconvenient to keep following it.
- deviledeggs 5y ago
  China has imprisoned millions of people in one of the biggest ethnic genocides since Nazi gernany. They murder people to sell their organs. The US is a mess but comparing them to a morally bankrupt genocidal China is disingenuous
  - post_below 5y ago
    Your point is valid but it's a question of degree rather than category. The Uyghur camps are about as evil as you can get, no question, but how much cumulative death and suffering has been caused by decades of destabilizing, bombing and invading the middle east? As just one example. From an outside perspective, no one is buying the US propaganda around the oil wars any more than people are buying Chinese propaganda about their camps. China being arguably worse doesn't evict the US from the category of destructive superpowers. I think there's value in being honest about that.

roenxi 5y ago

The gene data is the mildest thing the US hoovers up. They've been known to target missiles with phone GPS, and they've gathered big chunks of the world's social graph.

zthrowaway 5y ago

US companies have been harvesting DNA data for years without permission? Link? Companies like 23andme have people paying them to research their DNA with permission.

mercora 5y ago
i wonder how much information is gained about me if a close relative decides this is a good idea to do...
- NeutronStar 5y ago
  My twin did it. So much for privacy.
tracedddd 5y ago
I don’t think most people understand what they are agreeing to with regards to data sharing or mining. Ethically, burying important aspects in a ToS or privacy policy that you know most people will never read seems pretty wrong, while it may be legal.
Joool 5y ago
As others have stated, I do not think that people understand what they sign in the TOS of these companies. In this case the data was actually collected and analyzed with consent (as stated in the article).
tzs 5y ago
I don't know about DNA specifically, but blood that is donated to blood banks that ends up not being needed is sometimes used for research. There's probably something about this somewhere in the fine print on something they signed without reading, but most donors aren't aware of it. There has been some controversy over that because there have been lucrative commercial drugs derived from research using such blood, and some feel that the donors should be given a cut of the profits.
- kube-system 5y ago

frogcoder 5y ago

China does something evil. The U.S. does it too (without giving any evidence). It's OK China doing it now.

NeutronStar 5y ago
> It's OK China doing it now. Or it's bad that both does it...
nceqs3 5y ago
Chinese bots.
guilhas 5y ago
It is just to point the hypocrisies of the discussion tone in HN towards China when USA most times does just the same thing As an example is Uighur camps in China. When USA is the country with most incarcerated in the world in absolute terms, even China with a fraction of the population! And mostly directed at black and poor communities

nomdep 5y ago

No, is not. I know that US-based companies do it for greed: they want more money. If China doesn’t do it for the money, then why? Bio weapons maybe, in any case pain, suffering, and death. I prefer the first, thank you.

LinuxBender 5y ago

And the U.S. military has been collecting DNA of its enlisted since the 1990's. I stalled them long enough to avoid that, but my FOIA made it all the way to Al Gore and tumbled back down in the form of several boxes of generic vaguely worded reports.

Pmop 5y ago

A company based in a democratic country, which gets paid to harvest dna data is a completely different thing from the CCP which holds all the power over all of China and it's entities harvesting dna across the world, with no authorization.

vixen99 5y ago

'America's gene giant harvests data from millions of women worldwide' would be an interesting topic for discussion. As it is we know, as the Hong Kong protesters know, that the CCP runs every aspect of China's activities. So nothing of critical significance happens in China without the knowledge and say-so of the CCP. Clearly that's not analogous to the the situation in the US. Why do they want this data? What are they going to do with it? Maybe they just love collecting data. Is this exercise anymore significant than the similar operations carried out by other countries? And why?