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My father was very strongly against my decision to get into web development (2012) and he echoed this sentiment heavily. I distinctly remember him yelling at me

My father was very strongly against my decision to get into web development (2012) and he echoed this sentiment heavily. I distinctly remember him yelling at me as a teenager; "you'll be living under a bridge in 5 years if you do this! India has this market!". He eventually kicked me out for not listening, forcing me to to borrow money from a friend to pay tuition in my final semester. Needless to say he was completely wrong. I was out-earning him within 2 years of entering the market and I have probably the greatest job security in my immediate friendship circle. Despite my efforts, he refuses to talk to me to this day. The man does not like being wrong nor disobeyed. A shame really.

fridif 5y ago
This is a good reason for why I don't strongly hold on to any of my opinions lol
- hughrr 5y ago
  I know you made the point in jest but you’re right. To be adaptable you need to embrace change and opinion is the hardest to change. I’ve seen people die holding an opinion which has been thoroughly disproven. Embrace change!
  - fridif 5y ago
    Agreed. Some people would rather burn bridges than admit they were wrong
conjectures 5y ago
Wow, sounds both harsh and an ineffectual way to go at life.
irjustin 5y ago
Wow there's so much to unpack there. While professionally sounds like you're doing just fine, I hope you're doing okay personally.
- momento 5y ago
  I was not aware of how much damage he did until my mid 20's and it led to about 2 years in therapy to work through it all. This story is one of countless stories where he has acted out of line. A benefit of my career is that I had enough capital to pay out of pocket for a very effective therapist. I ended up gaining a far better understanding of who he is as a person and perhaps even why he is the way he is. This has allowed me to come to terms with his actions enough to forgive and forget (for the most part) and move forward with my life. I still call him once a year on fathers day, an attempt to extend the proverbial olive branch, but he never picks up. All in all my life goes on and I am happy and healthy. I am extremely grateful for the community I live in, the fantastic friends I have surrounded myself with and (most importantly) my incredible wife who helped me through a lot of the pain over the years. I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for her.
  - lowercased 5y ago
    I'm not trying to put everyone on the same level as your situation, but many (most, I might guess?) have had parental situations that are less than good. Sometimes for a short period, sometimes for the entire childhood. My childhood wasn't bad (as in horrific) but there were enough ... episodes that stuck with me for a long time, and sharing with friends (both at the time and afterwards) raised a lot of eyebrows (mostly saying "that's really not normal/acceptable"). "This has allowed me to come to terms with his actions enough to forgive and forget (for the most part) and move forward with my life." I'm glad you got there. I've come to a similar place (without a lot of therapy, but over a longer period of time). My parents did the best they could, and on looking back, they were in a situation they didn't want to be in (kids at a young age, money problems, etc). With enough time and distance, and knowing them as an adult, they're generally OK people. They did the best they could, they just didn't know very much at the time, and ... they got a lot of bad advice (imo) during a pre-internet time when it wasn't fast/easy to get a lot of information. I'm still rather fortunate, in that they're both overall good people (just... were not prepared for parenthood) - many folks are bad at parenting and ... are just overall not great people either. I have a sibling that is still struggling to come to terms with some of this, and is still searching for 'answers' to things that I don't really think have 'answers'. And yes, a good spouse can really help balance you out, give you some grounding and perspective. You can get some of that through therapy as well, I'm sure, but having a spouse with you is a different sort of grounding and perspective.
hughrr 5y ago
If there’s anything I’ve learned it is that you should always make your own mistakes. Your parent’s mistakes don’t even make sense any more 30-40 years down the line. My father pushed me into EE. I burned 5 years in industry being paid crap and then discovered it was actually a fairly low paying profession in the UK. Ended up supporting a bunch of Sun machines for other EEs which was more fun. So i learned Perl one weekend, bailed out and lied my way into a sysadmin job for 2x the money. 20 odd years down the line I’m glad I made that choice.
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  When offering PhD studentship positions, I have had several cases of people from developing countries who wanted to come work in my group, but didn't, and the reason (from their own accounts) was that their parents wouldn't let them go get their PhD anywhere not in the US. They ended up at groups in the US with much worse scientific output than mine (it's true that well-known US universities wipe the floor with mine in every metric, but that's not true when you go down to the level of individual groups, labs or fields of research), while working unpaid while I was paying a decent salary. They were bright people so I think and hope they'll have fruitful careers, but their parents (with their best intentions, I'm sure) surely put a roadblock in front of them due to the prejudice that there are no good opportunities outside the US.
  - teekert 5y ago
    This. I also had a M.Sc. student work at my company, a brilliant guy from China, he deserved the best Ph.D. Which in my opinion is with a Professor that made his mark, has a secure position (so he is not still in his publish or perish period), enjoys what he does and cares about his Ph.D. students' development. His parents didn't agree, they wanted him to go to the most prestigious lab he could get into. Probably to be worked like a measurement slave for 4 years + the inevitable extension. I told him to beware, talk to other students and try to gauge the atmosphere in the lab. If you're smart and motivated you'll make it. But will you have fun and be happy? What do you want out of life? I have friend that made "Associate Professor" at an impressive age. He does make 80 hour weeks and travels 50% of his time. It can be fun and it is an adventure, but is it what you want? This life is pretty incompatible with having a family for example. Beware of the fact that your parents may define success very differently from you.
teekert 5y ago
I have a lot of respect for your perseverance, it was the right thing to do. Make your own mistakes, making someone else's is just so... Painful. And it makes you feel weak. Similarly someone once advised me not to do a Masters in Molecular Biology because the market was screaming for Bachelors (back then in the Netherlands a Bachelor meant working in a production lab or something). I didn't listen and this also turned around in about 3-4 years and I love how my career went (and is going). I had a similar (but much less intense) situation with my Father in law by the way. He has some experience in "home improvement". I like to read and watch YouTube before starting any activity. So we had a big discussion/argument on how we would re-do our ceilings. In the end I said: I prefer to do it my way and mess it up than to do it yours and regret that. He agreed, we had a fun time working together after that. He learned a thing or two and now he consults me on many things he does around the house.
- smeej 5y ago
  "I honestly don't know which way is right. In case something _does_ go wrong, though, I'd rather have only myself to hold it against because I made the wrong decision than also hold it against you and let that make its way into our relationship." I think this just made its way into my "life rules for dealing with family and close friends." It's up there with "give money freely, but never lend it," and, "don't hire a friend to perform work for you on a deadline."
  - teekert 5y ago
    It's for sure something I try to keep in mind raising my children now. It's a form of admitting that you never have 100% of the facts + knowing that making mistakes is very good for learning. You can definitely learn things from how even the youngest of kids solve problems. This of course does not mean you should let them die screaming "yolo!", there is a balance to be found, but having this mantra keeps the balance a bit more on the "open mind" side of things.
- Y-Bopinator 5y ago
  I thought you were going to say he kicked you out and now you're homeless and hate each other. That's what happened to me
Netcob 5y ago
Kudos for sticking to it, I'm not sure I could have done that in your place! I'm always horrified at stories of parents who act this way. "Do it because I say so, I'm infallible as far as you are concerned, if you disobey me I'll hurt you."
- rocqua 5y ago
  > "if you disobey me I'll hurt you." I think the message is slightly different, and worse. I think the message is "If you disobey me, you have hurt me, and I will need to retaliate"
  - smeej 5y ago
    This just sent a chill up my spine. This was EXACTLY the story of my childhood, except it wasn't just "disobey." It was also "question."
raducu 5y ago
I'm really sorry for the relationship you have with your father. I've had similar experiences, but not as drastic as yours -- my father didn't allow me to use my bike for YEARS as a punishment for smashing my bike as a 10 year old (faulty chain, impulsive child). I guess this I would call the real toxic masculinity. Unfortunately there's nothing much you can do, except build your life around it, keep your boundaries firm and perhaps psychotherapy.
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  > I guess this I would call the real toxic masculinity. HN is the last place I would have expected to see these words. Which is slightly interesting take on a parent - I presume they housed you, fed you, got you educated and relatively safe...I cant possibly imagine you are writing this from a rehab facility or jail. And yet, for denying you a bicycle deems that man "toxic"? And what does a parent taking away a privilege have to do with masculinity? Which one of your human rights were infringed upon exactly? I'm genuinely interested.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    >> my father didn't allow me to use my bike for YEARS as a punishment for smashing my bike as a 10 year old Seriously, being so strict to punish a 10yrs old kid for years is not a sign of a toxic personality? Parents suppose to build theirs kids character and not stomp on it to make them 'tough'. toxic masculinity is not being manly man man. Its being insecure and lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you or is not 'with you'. Any father that thinks their kid misbehaving is somehow a personal attack.
    - raducu 5y ago
      The last bit fits the bill the most in his case -- he took it as a huge personal attack that I smashed the bike he bought, and the tough discipline he was raised in is why I labeled it as toxic masculinity.
      - 5y ago
coldtea 5y ago
>He eventually kicked me out for not listening, forcing me to to borrow money from a friend to pay tuition in my final semester. A real sweet guy...
robbiejs 5y ago
Perhaps your father did not want you to make more money than he did. Some fathers have very fragile egos.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Could be worse, he could NOT refuse to talk to you after all of that.
mombul 5y ago
"If you pursue this career, you'll live under a bridge in 5 years, so I'm kicking you out and giving you no money, so you'll live under a bridge right now." edit: kudos to you for sticking to it really! You should be proud of yourself!
bpicolo 5y ago
I've found that working with outsourced technical teams usually makes me feel even more confident in job security in the industry, rather than less
Dumblydorr 5y ago
"People find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." -Dumbledore
YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
It is a shame. Worst thing is, with parents, we get to regret these things for longer than they do.
loftyal 5y ago
I'm going to assume you havn't left out any other details, In this case, wow, no offence but your Dad has serious issues

fridif 5y ago

This is a good reason for why I don't strongly hold on to any of my opinions lol

hughrr 5y ago
I know you made the point in jest but you’re right. To be adaptable you need to embrace change and opinion is the hardest to change. I’ve seen people die holding an opinion which has been thoroughly disproven. Embrace change!
- fridif 5y ago
  Agreed. Some people would rather burn bridges than admit they were wrong

conjectures 5y ago

Wow, sounds both harsh and an ineffectual way to go at life.

irjustin 5y ago

Wow there's so much to unpack there. While professionally sounds like you're doing just fine, I hope you're doing okay personally.

momento 5y ago
I was not aware of how much damage he did until my mid 20's and it led to about 2 years in therapy to work through it all. This story is one of countless stories where he has acted out of line. A benefit of my career is that I had enough capital to pay out of pocket for a very effective therapist. I ended up gaining a far better understanding of who he is as a person and perhaps even why he is the way he is. This has allowed me to come to terms with his actions enough to forgive and forget (for the most part) and move forward with my life. I still call him once a year on fathers day, an attempt to extend the proverbial olive branch, but he never picks up. All in all my life goes on and I am happy and healthy. I am extremely grateful for the community I live in, the fantastic friends I have surrounded myself with and (most importantly) my incredible wife who helped me through a lot of the pain over the years. I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for her.
- lowercased 5y ago
  I'm not trying to put everyone on the same level as your situation, but many (most, I might guess?) have had parental situations that are less than good. Sometimes for a short period, sometimes for the entire childhood. My childhood wasn't bad (as in horrific) but there were enough ... episodes that stuck with me for a long time, and sharing with friends (both at the time and afterwards) raised a lot of eyebrows (mostly saying "that's really not normal/acceptable"). "This has allowed me to come to terms with his actions enough to forgive and forget (for the most part) and move forward with my life." I'm glad you got there. I've come to a similar place (without a lot of therapy, but over a longer period of time). My parents did the best they could, and on looking back, they were in a situation they didn't want to be in (kids at a young age, money problems, etc). With enough time and distance, and knowing them as an adult, they're generally OK people. They did the best they could, they just didn't know very much at the time, and ... they got a lot of bad advice (imo) during a pre-internet time when it wasn't fast/easy to get a lot of information. I'm still rather fortunate, in that they're both overall good people (just... were not prepared for parenthood) - many folks are bad at parenting and ... are just overall not great people either. I have a sibling that is still struggling to come to terms with some of this, and is still searching for 'answers' to things that I don't really think have 'answers'. And yes, a good spouse can really help balance you out, give you some grounding and perspective. You can get some of that through therapy as well, I'm sure, but having a spouse with you is a different sort of grounding and perspective.

hughrr 5y ago

If there’s anything I’ve learned it is that you should always make your own mistakes. Your parent’s mistakes don’t even make sense any more 30-40 years down the line. My father pushed me into EE. I burned 5 years in industry being paid crap and then discovered it was actually a fairly low paying profession in the UK. Ended up supporting a bunch of Sun machines for other EEs which was more fun. So i learned Perl one weekend, bailed out and lied my way into a sysadmin job for 2x the money. 20 odd years down the line I’m glad I made that choice.

Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
When offering PhD studentship positions, I have had several cases of people from developing countries who wanted to come work in my group, but didn't, and the reason (from their own accounts) was that their parents wouldn't let them go get their PhD anywhere not in the US. They ended up at groups in the US with much worse scientific output than mine (it's true that well-known US universities wipe the floor with mine in every metric, but that's not true when you go down to the level of individual groups, labs or fields of research), while working unpaid while I was paying a decent salary. They were bright people so I think and hope they'll have fruitful careers, but their parents (with their best intentions, I'm sure) surely put a roadblock in front of them due to the prejudice that there are no good opportunities outside the US.
- teekert 5y ago
  This. I also had a M.Sc. student work at my company, a brilliant guy from China, he deserved the best Ph.D. Which in my opinion is with a Professor that made his mark, has a secure position (so he is not still in his publish or perish period), enjoys what he does and cares about his Ph.D. students' development. His parents didn't agree, they wanted him to go to the most prestigious lab he could get into. Probably to be worked like a measurement slave for 4 years + the inevitable extension. I told him to beware, talk to other students and try to gauge the atmosphere in the lab. If you're smart and motivated you'll make it. But will you have fun and be happy? What do you want out of life? I have friend that made "Associate Professor" at an impressive age. He does make 80 hour weeks and travels 50% of his time. It can be fun and it is an adventure, but is it what you want? This life is pretty incompatible with having a family for example. Beware of the fact that your parents may define success very differently from you.

teekert 5y ago

I have a lot of respect for your perseverance, it was the right thing to do. Make your own mistakes, making someone else's is just so... Painful. And it makes you feel weak. Similarly someone once advised me not to do a Masters in Molecular Biology because the market was screaming for Bachelors (back then in the Netherlands a Bachelor meant working in a production lab or something). I didn't listen and this also turned around in about 3-4 years and I love how my career went (and is going). I had a similar (but much less intense) situation with my Father in law by the way. He has some experience in "home improvement". I like to read and watch YouTube before starting any activity. So we had a big discussion/argument on how we would re-do our ceilings. In the end I said: I prefer to do it my way and mess it up than to do it yours and regret that. He agreed, we had a fun time working together after that. He learned a thing or two and now he consults me on many things he does around the house.

smeej 5y ago
"I honestly don't know which way is right. In case something _does_ go wrong, though, I'd rather have only myself to hold it against because I made the wrong decision than also hold it against you and let that make its way into our relationship." I think this just made its way into my "life rules for dealing with family and close friends." It's up there with "give money freely, but never lend it," and, "don't hire a friend to perform work for you on a deadline."
- teekert 5y ago
  It's for sure something I try to keep in mind raising my children now. It's a form of admitting that you never have 100% of the facts + knowing that making mistakes is very good for learning. You can definitely learn things from how even the youngest of kids solve problems. This of course does not mean you should let them die screaming "yolo!", there is a balance to be found, but having this mantra keeps the balance a bit more on the "open mind" side of things.
Y-Bopinator 5y ago
I thought you were going to say he kicked you out and now you're homeless and hate each other. That's what happened to me

Netcob 5y ago

Kudos for sticking to it, I'm not sure I could have done that in your place! I'm always horrified at stories of parents who act this way. "Do it because I say so, I'm infallible as far as you are concerned, if you disobey me I'll hurt you."

rocqua 5y ago
> "if you disobey me I'll hurt you." I think the message is slightly different, and worse. I think the message is "If you disobey me, you have hurt me, and I will need to retaliate"
- smeej 5y ago
  This just sent a chill up my spine. This was EXACTLY the story of my childhood, except it wasn't just "disobey." It was also "question."

raducu 5y ago

I'm really sorry for the relationship you have with your father. I've had similar experiences, but not as drastic as yours -- my father didn't allow me to use my bike for YEARS as a punishment for smashing my bike as a 10 year old (faulty chain, impulsive child). I guess this I would call the real toxic masculinity. Unfortunately there's nothing much you can do, except build your life around it, keep your boundaries firm and perhaps psychotherapy.

vagrantJin 5y ago
> I guess this I would call the real toxic masculinity. HN is the last place I would have expected to see these words. Which is slightly interesting take on a parent - I presume they housed you, fed you, got you educated and relatively safe...I cant possibly imagine you are writing this from a rehab facility or jail. And yet, for denying you a bicycle deems that man "toxic"? And what does a parent taking away a privilege have to do with masculinity? Which one of your human rights were infringed upon exactly? I'm genuinely interested.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  >> my father didn't allow me to use my bike for YEARS as a punishment for smashing my bike as a 10 year old Seriously, being so strict to punish a 10yrs old kid for years is not a sign of a toxic personality? Parents suppose to build theirs kids character and not stomp on it to make them 'tough'. toxic masculinity is not being manly man man. Its being insecure and lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you or is not 'with you'. Any father that thinks their kid misbehaving is somehow a personal attack.
  - raducu 5y ago
    The last bit fits the bill the most in his case -- he took it as a huge personal attack that I smashed the bike he bought, and the tough discipline he was raised in is why I labeled it as toxic masculinity.
    - 5y ago

coldtea 5y ago

>He eventually kicked me out for not listening, forcing me to to borrow money from a friend to pay tuition in my final semester. A real sweet guy...

robbiejs 5y ago

Perhaps your father did not want you to make more money than he did. Some fathers have very fragile egos.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Could be worse, he could NOT refuse to talk to you after all of that.

mombul 5y ago

"If you pursue this career, you'll live under a bridge in 5 years, so I'm kicking you out and giving you no money, so you'll live under a bridge right now." edit: kudos to you for sticking to it really! You should be proud of yourself!

bpicolo 5y ago

I've found that working with outsourced technical teams usually makes me feel even more confident in job security in the industry, rather than less

Dumblydorr 5y ago

"People find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." -Dumbledore

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

It is a shame. Worst thing is, with parents, we get to regret these things for longer than they do.

loftyal 5y ago

I'm going to assume you havn't left out any other details, In this case, wow, no offence but your Dad has serious issues