9 ms·

Only Windows 11 Pro will let you install Windows 11 with a local account

158 points by boba7 5y ago

tpoacher 5y ago
"In unrelated news, piracy levels have steadily increased since Microsoft unveiled the latest version of their popular OS. Bizzarly pirates seem to be targetting the 'Pro' variant exclusively. Microsoft officials stated that this is a worrying sign that even stronger online security and surveillance is necessary. The company has therefore been working on a new authentication system, which will require the user to be hooked up to an EEG at all times to remain connected to their session. Microsoft said this will be their most secure platform yet!"
- devetec 5y ago
  You can't really pirate Windows. They offer download links for free for anyone to use. You can use it for free and while you have an "Activate Windows" watermark, it'd be fine. The only way to get Windows Pro would be to get a license key, which can't really be pirated also.
  - snoopen 5y ago
    You can certainly pirate Windows, even Pro, insofar as activating it without paying for a license.
    - devetec 5y ago
      Really? did not know that.
  - bni 5y ago
    KMS emulator
    - Santosh83 5y ago
      This is precisely what a mandatory TPM can finally deal with.
- scrps 5y ago
  Why EEG though? Just link it to DNA. Plus added bonus of hardware lock-in for MS to roll out some new biometric hardware, I think SmartPrick would be an apt name for it.
  - tpoacher 5y ago
    "MS is proud to announce our combined EEG+SmartPrick based 'always connected' technology..."
fouric 5y ago
Could one get a fake Microsoft account with an email address and phone number tied to a service like Mailinator? Sure, if it were possible it would only be a temporary solution, but that's better than nothing.
- andrepew 5y ago
  No because security of the system is tied to security of that email account because the password can be reset through it. The Microsoft account serves as the means to authenticate in Windows.
lambada 5y ago
Windows 10 (any version) doesn’t let you install it without a microsoft account these days - it used to, but they removed that function during one of the updates. They do let you transition to a local account after install though. That caught me by surprise when i had to reinstall a fresh copy of Windows 10 at one point So a version that does let you install with just a local account right off the bat is a strict improvement from my point of view. Maybe the article authors were unaware of that change to the Windows 10 install process - it certainly would explain the odd slanting. Edit: interesting, from the replies it looks like you either have to not connect to the network or say you are going to join a domain (which was untrue in my case) that explains why i couldn’t find the option then!
- viraptor 5y ago
  You can still install Win 10 with a local account if you don't configure / unplug the network. A couple months ago I could also skip the online account on win 10 pro by going through some dark pattern (maybe failing to log in, then selecting offline option?)
  - 14 5y ago
    This was the user hostile trick I used last time. Tell it no internet connection and set up local account. I imagine one day everything will be 5G connected and then Microsoft will expect the account no matter where you are.
  - resoluteteeth 5y ago
    You just have to say that you're going to join a domain. It doesn't make you actually join a domain and it let's you create a local account. No need to unplug it or fail to log in or anything like that.
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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xony 5y ago
Another Window Vista making
olivierestsage 5y ago
Every day I feel like a passive spectator watching the industry move in a direction that is worrying: more telemetry, harsh rules about binary signing that hurt small developers, difficulty of accessing one's own system with full privileges, online accounts required everywhere, pushes to do away with traditional "general-purpose computers" in favor of restricted devices oriented around consumption. I know that this post is peak HackerNews hipsterism/"old man yells at cloud," so I want to try to make it constructive: what can be done, at this point? What is the strategic move, beyond something like going with Linux or BSD for personal use? Is it too late and we've entered "hope for the best" territory? Edit: To clarify, I do already use Linux, which wasn't clear from my initial wording. It's just that I worry it isn't "enough."
- mysterydip 5y ago
  I've changed my personal laptop to Linux, and my development platform from desktop/PC to html5/web. I think (hope?) there's too much momentum with the free web for the same tricks to happen there.
  - everyone 5y ago
    The problem is most people are on mobile now. And Apple have crippled the web on iOS cus they want everyone going through the app store. So web stuff will be janky / broken on a decent sized cohort of the populations devices. ps. Also, forget about iOS. Half the websites I try to use nowadays dont even work on Firefox on desktop and I need to use a chromium browser to get them to work.
    - kichimi 5y ago
      Which ones? I've not had a single website fail on Firefox for a decade.
      - rightbyte 5y ago
        I have had about 2 or 3 internal websites only work on a combination of Chrome, Edge or IE at my jobs. They all sucked and were very important, like time reports or data processing. I guess the open web is a bit better in this regard?
sschueller 5y ago
Every so often after a patch Tuesday windows 10 will try to force me the login with a MS account. I have to hit ctrl-alt-del a few time and logout of the local user to get around this garbage. I am so sick of this. I wish everything I needed ran in linux.
- mysterydip 5y ago
  Does everything else you need either run under Wine or a locked-down windows 7/8 VM?
  - sschueller 5y ago
    It's mostly music software, but I have to give it a try in a win VM.
    - throwaway675309 5y ago
      Same for me. I've heard that attempting to use WINE/JACK for progs like ableton can add measurable latency which can be detrimental when using ASIO, but maybe a full VM would work better.
- stinos 5y ago
  This is on Windows Home then?
- edgeform 5y ago
  [citation needed] on that attempted forced MSA claim. I use a local account from inception and have not had a single issue being bothered to use an MSA.
  - Santosh83 5y ago
    Agree with you. Used to use an MS account on the old installation, whose HDD died. Now using Win10 Home with local account and it hasn't tried to sneak me on to an MS account after the install process itself, where I still found the option to skip creating an online account as early as three months back. Supposedly Home is most restricted Windows version. However this does mean I don't get sync and other fancy features like locating the device and other remote stuff. Not particularly bothered, but I do wonder if my old MS account will get deactivated after a certain period of disuse. Perhaps I'll just login on the browser to keep it alive.
nly 5y ago
My suspicion is the option to allow installation via a local account (by disconnecting the network) will remain come RTM. They're likely just pressing the issue now to gauge reaction.
- 14 5y ago
  My reaction will be to finally bother to install a Linux installation. Sure a lot of people say that then do nothing but seriously after losing my hotmail account and not being able to reach anyone for help and knowing my password and still being locked out I have no plans on creating another Microsoft account.
  - TheFreim 5y ago
    I can sympathize with losing an old Hotmail account. I had a live/Hotmail account that got locked years ago and it's impossible for me to remember details I used. The accounts linked to the email are very near and dear to me and I still get sad thinking about how ill never be able to login again.
- orev 5y ago
  They have already been pushing this heavily in the Windows 10 installer to either “gauge the reaction”, or more likely, to let everyone know that this is coming and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. The time of “gauging the reaction” is over and now it will be the requirement.
kijin 5y ago
> local account users ... won’t be able to sync content or use Windows 11’s ability to sync or recommend content from other devices. Is that meant to make you feel like you'd be missing out on something? Do people still fall for this kind of language, or is it just the marketing department patting themselves on the back? Yeah, I'd love to cripple my own ability to get "recommended content" (we all know what that is) from anywhere at all.
isodev 5y ago
From the article: > The Windows 11 Home MSA requirement isn’t permanent, just unavoidable. Combine that with the fact that "essential telemetry" can't be disabled by normal means (and thus Windows will continue to send "diagnostic" data to Microsoft) and it seems one's PC is not unlike one's Android phone... One of the most commented features of Windows 11 seems to be the ability to run Android apps. I was very excited about it... but then, if I want to use my Android apps on Windows 11, I am going to need not only my Google account, but also my Microsoft account and something called an Amazon account. That's a lot of accounts to just run an app. A lot of third parties to share my personal data with. A lot of Terms of Service to read and a lot of GDPR "consent" clicks for me to give away my privacy. While I definitely appreciate "end to end" working ecosystems, it was always a bit of a relief to be able to go back to an "open" PC. I guess that choice is still available, as long as it's not powered by Windows.
- Krasnol 5y ago
  > I am going to need not only my Google account, but also my Microsoft account and something called an Amazon account I can't imagine there won't be ways around all that pretty soon.
everyone 5y ago
I'm betting that windows 10 LTSB will be supported until windows 11, or 12 (or whatever) LTSB is released. (ps. I cant switch to Linux 100%, I need to use windows for work as I am a game dev.. It's probably possible to do my job entirely in linux with wine and whatnot, but in software development it is a pretty bad idea to make ones job unnecessarily more difficult and complicated, and throw up barriers to shipping)
- aj3 5y ago
  LTSB is already not supported by various games, Adobe products and even MS Office.
  - binarybanana 5y ago
    LTSC does work fine though, at least for all games I tried and it's supported until 2029. Question is how long you'll be able to get drivers and when games stop working on it. Dunno about other software, I only use Windows are a game console OS in a VM.
- mickotron 5y ago
  My PCs at home run linux. I run a Windows 10 VM on qemu/KVM for work, and that has worked for me for 16 months of remote work. The crazy hardware requirements for windows 11 won't apply to VMs apparently. And my work will provide me with a Microsoft account, so that is fine. Plus it's a work-only machine, clear segregation.
anotheryou 5y ago
they really know how to encourage piracy
sstephant 5y ago
You don't own the system anymore, the system owns you :/
- isodev 5y ago
  Technically we still own the hardware, we are just installing the "Windows Service" (OS as a Service?) on it.
  - binarybanana 5y ago
    >Technically we still own the hardware Nope, signed firmware updates and no way to downgrade after the fact means the manufacturer ultimately has more control over "your" hardware than you do. You still "own" it in a legal sense, but not in the sense that it's completely under your control and only does what you think it does. I think a way to override that forced signed firmware crap should be mandated by law, but things are going the other way. If flashing unsigned firmware voided the warranty and made goatse show up at boot or whatever to warn about possibly unwanted modification that would be fine. Not having that option at all is bad for making full use of the hardware, bad for privacy and bad for security.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
As long as rdpwrap works
e-clinton 5y ago
I don’t think this is about telemetry. I think this is about Messaging. With Teams being integrated into Windows, every Win11 user will be a new Teams user and will push Teams to the billions of users eventually.
Santosh83 5y ago
Everybody is focusing on local/MS account. But for me the more insidious requirement is mandating TPM chip. Not only in the short term a ton of computers will either have to be discarded (because you can't add a TPM chip to an existing system despite 'open' PC architecture), or stay on outdated Win10, in the long term the DRM implications are worrying.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  Many PC motherboards have a TPM header either dedicated or sometimes shared with the USB 3.0 header. You can buy a 20 pin TPM module for about £3 which can plug into the standard header and for about £7-8 for those snowflakes like ASUS that use the same 20 pin interface but with a slightly modified pin out. The only question would be the BIOS initialization, but many OEMs have already released new BIOS revisions with added/better external TPM support or have announced their intention to do so. For those system who don’t have a TPM header, Intel PTT and AMD’s PSP fTPM would provide the required compatibility. And this is a good thing if this was still optional it would not put pressure on manufacturers to add TPM support as a standard feature. Windows 10 will be supported to at least 2025 with feature updates and probably longer with critical security updates. The fact that people complain about this is ridiculous.
  - devetec 5y ago
    TPM modules are not £3. They're $50 or more now. Many people use older hardware without TPM support, and many people don't know what TPMs are and how to add them. Entire enterprises of hardware would have to be upgraded. It's a ploy to create more sales for hardware manufacturers.
    - dogma1138 5y ago
      No they aren’t $50… since I don’t want to include eBay/Amazon here is from CCL computers in the UK for £8.99 https://m.cclonline.com/product/214437/90MC03W0-M0XBN/Component-Accessories/Asus-TPM-M-R2-0-14-Pin-Trusted-Platform-Module/ACC1757/ https://m.cclonline.com/product/214437/90MC03W0-M0XBN/Compon... Here is an ASRock one for £13.99 from Scan https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-trusted-platform-module-tpm-spi-141-pin-family-20-level-00-revision-0116 https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-trusted-platform-modu...
Zhyl 5y ago
To everyone reading this who feels uneasy about this, has broader concerns about the direction of desktop computing generally and Microsoft Windows specifically I say this: "give Linux a go". You may not like it, you may go back to Windows and decide that the dark patterns are worth the cost of things 'just working' etc, but I implore you to at least give it a go. Burn a Live USB. Boot it up and have a look around. If you're coming from Windows 10, try Linux mint or anything with the 'Cinnamon' Desktop. I say this mostly because the Hackernews crowd is generally pro-Linux as a concept, but sceptical of Linux as a daily driver. Those that do use it as a daily driver will (in my anecdotal experience) have been using it for 5-10 years or more and will have been used to making a good deal of compromises, or are tech savvy enough to have been able to fix things in the bad times. But in the last few years desktops have gotten really good. You will likely find one that you like out of the latest versions of Cinnamon, KDE or Gnome. Or MATE/XFCE/LMQT if you want to go back for a lightning-quick old school feel. Since 2018, thousands of games now work. It's now 'good enough' for pretty much all single player games. I ask people who haven't tried Linux since before then to have another try (or at the very least to look up the games they play on ProtonDB to see if they would work nowadays). In short, a larger (albeit probably still small) number of people who would have jumped the Windows ship in 2015 instead of going to 10 will actually be able to do so now instead of upgrading to Windows 11.
- abraxas 5y ago
  What's the status of SteamVR on Linux? VR is the sole reason I still have a windows machine around.
  - devetec 5y ago
    An article about this: https://boilingsteam.com/the-state-of-virtual-reality-on-linux/ https://boilingsteam.com/the-state-of-virtual-reality-on-lin...
- jlkuester7 5y ago
  +1 Don't get overwhelmed by the miriad of Linux distros to choose from. As OP said, start with Linux Mint. It is super user-friendly and based on Ubuntu/Debian which makes it stable and widely supported in terms of applications, drivers, etc. You can always switch to something more exotic later if you want, but IMHO Mint is one of the best there is for a normal Desktop experience.
xg15 5y ago
> Microsoft does allow you many, many options to guard your privacy within Windows 10—but it’s also betting you won’t bother. I think this sums up the issues I have with most of the discussions where "consumer choice" or "personal responsibility" are touted. Yes, those are valid and important concepts - but if a company is emphasizing "choice" while at the same time having a vital interest that people "choose" against their own interests (or even manipulating people to that effect), the argument becomes obvious bullshit. It's like food companies emphasizing "consumer choice" whenever stricter regulations are on the table, yet at the same time opposing anything that would actually allow consumers to make an informed choice (like easy to understand nutrition labels).
- JCWasmx86 5y ago
  Tracking/Telemetry should always be opt-in. Or at least like: Do you want to send following data: <Data that will be collected,...> <legalese>: Big font: NO Small font: Yes This would be the fairest design for all. Users would be able to make informed consent, vendors get data on a moral good way.
  - yrro 5y ago
    They would just do what most web sites do, and ask users again and again, every day, multiple times per day until the user cracks and irrevocably opts in.
- makecheck 5y ago
  This is kind of how I felt when originally using Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.; sure they have dozens of “privacy settings” but (1) I did not really want to spend hours checking all the boxes a certain way, (2) they could change at any time, e.g. some awful new setting would invariably appear, naturally with an equally-awful default value (from the user’s point of view), and (3) there is no guarantee these things are coded correctly. For (3), there’s a pretty good chance just from code rot that your “settings” may not always work. Certainly not if some company’s entire business model seems to depend on the more anti-consumer values for “settings”, you can bet they will not heavily invest in testing their accuracy. And the real problem for privacy-related settings is that if they ever fail to protect you, even being buggy for just a short period of time, your information is then out there. Leaked. Gone. Even if you close the barn door, the animals have left. It is the type of software that has to be working 100% of the time to really protect data. So I don’t really want privacy “settings”, I want privacy, period. That should be the default and only behavior, where the user has the only keys.
shrubble 5y ago
Thank God for the massive increase in CPU power of ARM microcontrollers and the retro-computing movement. Such as the Teensy 4.1, which can run CPM in emulation among other things. With a large capacity SD card, you could store a great deal of info on a non-compromised device. I believe that people will start using them as secure methods to store personal information away from the prying eyes of Microsoft et al.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
The subtext here is that you can't install Windows 11 Home you don't have an internet connection.
jlkuester7 5y ago
My list of applications that I need to run on Windows, instead if Linux, has almost completely disappeared (I can only think of one). I have used Linux for probably 15 years and can say that the user experience has never been better (for the lay person that just wants something that works). The final nail in the coffin of Windows for me is Steam Play. So many of my Windows games just work, right out of the box on Linux. It feels like magic compared to the old days of trying to hack together a workable Wine config...
nirui 5y ago
Well that's really a bold move, given the current states of their (confusing) account system and it's (even more confusing) integration, see: - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-security/windows-10-email-app-accounts-cannot-fix-account/95be0fdf-1301-4ad9-9993-1dcb6b2618d0 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings/microsoft-account-problem/19ff2771-d2e0-4a13-a0e2-fbb7d0a13435 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings/microsoft-account-problem/2f977223-e1d7-4c06-9749-ba69d1da4ece https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... Or just search "Microsoft Account Problem".
jftuga 5y ago
What are the best Linux distros for developers?
_Understated_ 5y ago
My $0.02 I've been on Windows forever. Since DOS 3 or 4 I think (giving away my age there!) and until recently (last few years) it has fulfilled every one of my requirements, that is, games, development, consumption. I'm a .NET developer so the Windows ecosystem was a no-brainer: Visual Studio just works... sort of. As an end-user everything works: I don't need to install drivers, hit the command line or anything. Windows has been great over the years. However... The last few years have been a downward spiral. Not just downward, but accelerating downwards. It started (for me at least!) with the forced upgrade from Windows 7 (or 8, can't remember), then came the utterly shit Windows updates - The updates for Windows 10 are shite. Plain and simple. A couple of years ago I'd had enough so I disabled Windows updates so that I could install them well after their release date as I was sick of being their beta-tester. There are literally bugs with every update now. I know we are talking about a few years ago, but I absolutely did not have issues with updates on Windows 7. Ever! Windows 10 has at least one show-stopping bug every couple of months now (it seems like that anyway). It's now getting to the point that not only do I have less control over my own paid-for installation of Windows, but each update reduces my control ever more... I've harped on about it before (not just in this post, but others too) but disabling updates is a lesson in frustration. It's possible to do it but if you update later, they are switched back on - happens every time! Then there's the telemetry! I'm not going to labour this point as it has been done to death already over the years but the sheer fucking arrogance of a company that takes my money, reduces my control over my paid-for product, then says "oh, we're going to take data from your operating system whether you want us to or not" is beyond the pale! Yes, yes, I know Android spying is the stuff of legend but it has been like that from day one! It's how Google makes its money. Microsoft used to not be dicks about you having control over your OS. Those days are long gone. Dark patterns! Let me say NO to things and then just fuck off please! Why does everything have to be infantilized? Why does the YES button say "Yes please! I want rainbows and unicorns" and the NO button say "I'm a climate-denying terrorist if I click this". Worse, is when the "no" button says "maybe later" or "not right now". I hate that crap. And why do you have to make the positive button (I say positive, but I mean the button that's more beneficial to Microsoft!) massive and outlined when the other one is tiny and just text? Microsoft aren't the only ones that do that... I need to point that out! The need for the OS to constantly keep me informed, or tell me about X, or jump in my face with this thing, or show me the latest news tipped me over the edge. I want my operating system to do the following: 1. Store and launch my software 2. Be secure 3. Stay out of my way! That's it. I've had a few goes at Ubuntu and found it lacking. Nothing major but a few annoying things related to hardware: sound popping, graphics glitching, FF crashing, printer stopping working. Stuff like that but I'm on Pop! OS now. Just installed 20.04 the other day after playing with 20.10 for a couple of weeks (not a fan of 21.04 and I like the LTS idea especially when my livelihood depends on said computer!). I can still programme .NET stuff with Rider (getting the hang of it, it's quite nice and it is way more responsive than VS which has become a buggy nightmare over the years!). Docker allows me to run SQL server (still use that quite a lot) and, interestingly the Docker SQL image runs faster than SQL server when it was installed natively on my Windows box... weird! It's very noticeable too. Anyway, I'm too old to fight with the OS any more, and POP! seems to be ticking all the right boxes for now. I have to keep a W10 VM around for a couple of things but it's off most of the day. Edit: I had a go at the "leaked" version of Windows 11 and I wasn't enamored. As a friend of mine once said: "Same shite, different smell!"
c7DJTLrn 5y ago
That's OK. I have great faith in the huge community of hackers and tweakers that mess around with Windows - there will inevitably be a PowerShell script or Registry tweak for getting around it.
phendrenad2 5y ago
I'd love to see the Venn diagram of people who are put off by this, and people who still need to run windows programs and can't switch to Linux. Probably no overlap at all.
siddhant09 5y ago
Could future of computing be just computer clients leveraging the cloud compute? If services like Google Stadia becomes as ubiquitous as email, no average user would bat an eye on required web login. You want to render a complete VR map of a nation? Maybe you require petabytes of ram and compute power of a today's server farm? Worry not, your phone weighing 140g can do it, all by leveraging cloud compute. Even if this future doesn't materialize, incentives for MS are clear and this requirement shall open up more integration opportunities than before. Also there is no competition. Linux has the following problems which have largely remained unsolved, since the community fails to even recognize them as an issue. 1. No 1080p or 4K video playback on Netflix. 2. Not even 720p video playback on Amazon Prime Video. 3. Games take a performance hit. 4. Single click installations of .deb almost never works. .exe and .dmg are a much better user experience. 5. Ubuntu store is broken. It sometime loads, most times it doesn't. 6. Absence of Adobe. 7. An average user is expected to open up terminal when things go wrong and thing often do go wrong. An OS company can divide their customers into Developers, Video/Audio Editors, Content Consumption, Office work and Gamers. Linux only and only caters to us Developers.
tim333 5y ago
Though can't you just register an account like MickeyMouse123 @hotmail and use that? I know it's annoying but doesn't seem the end or the world. That said I dumped Windows after 7 and am a happy Mac/Linux user.

158 points by boba7 5y ago

"In unrelated news, piracy levels have steadily increased since Microsoft unveiled the latest version of their popular OS. Bizzarly pirates seem to be targetting the 'Pro' variant exclusively. Microsoft officials stated that this is a worrying sign that even stronger online security and surveillance is necessary. The company has therefore been working on a new authentication system, which will require the user to be hooked up to an EEG at all times to remain connected to their session. Microsoft said this will be their most secure platform yet!"

devetec 5y ago
You can't really pirate Windows. They offer download links for free for anyone to use. You can use it for free and while you have an "Activate Windows" watermark, it'd be fine. The only way to get Windows Pro would be to get a license key, which can't really be pirated also.
- snoopen 5y ago
  You can certainly pirate Windows, even Pro, insofar as activating it without paying for a license.
  - devetec 5y ago
    Really? did not know that.
- bni 5y ago
  KMS emulator
  - Santosh83 5y ago
    This is precisely what a mandatory TPM can finally deal with.
scrps 5y ago
Why EEG though? Just link it to DNA. Plus added bonus of hardware lock-in for MS to roll out some new biometric hardware, I think SmartPrick would be an apt name for it.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  "MS is proud to announce our combined EEG+SmartPrick based 'always connected' technology..."

fouric 5y ago

Could one get a fake Microsoft account with an email address and phone number tied to a service like Mailinator? Sure, if it were possible it would only be a temporary solution, but that's better than nothing.

andrepew 5y ago
No because security of the system is tied to security of that email account because the password can be reset through it. The Microsoft account serves as the means to authenticate in Windows.

lambada 5y ago

Windows 10 (any version) doesn’t let you install it without a microsoft account these days - it used to, but they removed that function during one of the updates. They do let you transition to a local account after install though. That caught me by surprise when i had to reinstall a fresh copy of Windows 10 at one point So a version that does let you install with just a local account right off the bat is a strict improvement from my point of view. Maybe the article authors were unaware of that change to the Windows 10 install process - it certainly would explain the odd slanting. Edit: interesting, from the replies it looks like you either have to not connect to the network or say you are going to join a domain (which was untrue in my case) that explains why i couldn’t find the option then!

viraptor 5y ago
You can still install Win 10 with a local account if you don't configure / unplug the network. A couple months ago I could also skip the online account on win 10 pro by going through some dark pattern (maybe failing to log in, then selecting offline option?)
- 14 5y ago
  This was the user hostile trick I used last time. Tell it no internet connection and set up local account. I imagine one day everything will be 5G connected and then Microsoft will expect the account no matter where you are.
- resoluteteeth 5y ago
  You just have to say that you're going to join a domain. It doesn't make you actually join a domain and it let's you create a local account. No need to unplug it or fail to log in or anything like that.
deleted 5y ago
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xony 5y ago

Another Window Vista making

olivierestsage 5y ago

Every day I feel like a passive spectator watching the industry move in a direction that is worrying: more telemetry, harsh rules about binary signing that hurt small developers, difficulty of accessing one's own system with full privileges, online accounts required everywhere, pushes to do away with traditional "general-purpose computers" in favor of restricted devices oriented around consumption. I know that this post is peak HackerNews hipsterism/"old man yells at cloud," so I want to try to make it constructive: what can be done, at this point? What is the strategic move, beyond something like going with Linux or BSD for personal use? Is it too late and we've entered "hope for the best" territory? Edit: To clarify, I do already use Linux, which wasn't clear from my initial wording. It's just that I worry it isn't "enough."

mysterydip 5y ago
I've changed my personal laptop to Linux, and my development platform from desktop/PC to html5/web. I think (hope?) there's too much momentum with the free web for the same tricks to happen there.
- everyone 5y ago
  The problem is most people are on mobile now. And Apple have crippled the web on iOS cus they want everyone going through the app store. So web stuff will be janky / broken on a decent sized cohort of the populations devices. ps. Also, forget about iOS. Half the websites I try to use nowadays dont even work on Firefox on desktop and I need to use a chromium browser to get them to work.
  - kichimi 5y ago
    Which ones? I've not had a single website fail on Firefox for a decade.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      I have had about 2 or 3 internal websites only work on a combination of Chrome, Edge or IE at my jobs. They all sucked and were very important, like time reports or data processing. I guess the open web is a bit better in this regard?

sschueller 5y ago

Every so often after a patch Tuesday windows 10 will try to force me the login with a MS account. I have to hit ctrl-alt-del a few time and logout of the local user to get around this garbage. I am so sick of this. I wish everything I needed ran in linux.

mysterydip 5y ago
Does everything else you need either run under Wine or a locked-down windows 7/8 VM?
- sschueller 5y ago
  It's mostly music software, but I have to give it a try in a win VM.
  - throwaway675309 5y ago
    Same for me. I've heard that attempting to use WINE/JACK for progs like ableton can add measurable latency which can be detrimental when using ASIO, but maybe a full VM would work better.
stinos 5y ago
This is on Windows Home then?
edgeform 5y ago
[citation needed] on that attempted forced MSA claim. I use a local account from inception and have not had a single issue being bothered to use an MSA.
- Santosh83 5y ago
  Agree with you. Used to use an MS account on the old installation, whose HDD died. Now using Win10 Home with local account and it hasn't tried to sneak me on to an MS account after the install process itself, where I still found the option to skip creating an online account as early as three months back. Supposedly Home is most restricted Windows version. However this does mean I don't get sync and other fancy features like locating the device and other remote stuff. Not particularly bothered, but I do wonder if my old MS account will get deactivated after a certain period of disuse. Perhaps I'll just login on the browser to keep it alive.

nly 5y ago

My suspicion is the option to allow installation via a local account (by disconnecting the network) will remain come RTM. They're likely just pressing the issue now to gauge reaction.

14 5y ago
My reaction will be to finally bother to install a Linux installation. Sure a lot of people say that then do nothing but seriously after losing my hotmail account and not being able to reach anyone for help and knowing my password and still being locked out I have no plans on creating another Microsoft account.
- TheFreim 5y ago
  I can sympathize with losing an old Hotmail account. I had a live/Hotmail account that got locked years ago and it's impossible for me to remember details I used. The accounts linked to the email are very near and dear to me and I still get sad thinking about how ill never be able to login again.
orev 5y ago
They have already been pushing this heavily in the Windows 10 installer to either “gauge the reaction”, or more likely, to let everyone know that this is coming and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. The time of “gauging the reaction” is over and now it will be the requirement.

kijin 5y ago

> local account users ... won’t be able to sync content or use Windows 11’s ability to sync or recommend content from other devices. Is that meant to make you feel like you'd be missing out on something? Do people still fall for this kind of language, or is it just the marketing department patting themselves on the back? Yeah, I'd love to cripple my own ability to get "recommended content" (we all know what that is) from anywhere at all.

isodev 5y ago

From the article: > The Windows 11 Home MSA requirement isn’t permanent, just unavoidable. Combine that with the fact that "essential telemetry" can't be disabled by normal means (and thus Windows will continue to send "diagnostic" data to Microsoft) and it seems one's PC is not unlike one's Android phone... One of the most commented features of Windows 11 seems to be the ability to run Android apps. I was very excited about it... but then, if I want to use my Android apps on Windows 11, I am going to need not only my Google account, but also my Microsoft account and something called an Amazon account. That's a lot of accounts to just run an app. A lot of third parties to share my personal data with. A lot of Terms of Service to read and a lot of GDPR "consent" clicks for me to give away my privacy. While I definitely appreciate "end to end" working ecosystems, it was always a bit of a relief to be able to go back to an "open" PC. I guess that choice is still available, as long as it's not powered by Windows.

Krasnol 5y ago
> I am going to need not only my Google account, but also my Microsoft account and something called an Amazon account I can't imagine there won't be ways around all that pretty soon.

everyone 5y ago

I'm betting that windows 10 LTSB will be supported until windows 11, or 12 (or whatever) LTSB is released. (ps. I cant switch to Linux 100%, I need to use windows for work as I am a game dev.. It's probably possible to do my job entirely in linux with wine and whatnot, but in software development it is a pretty bad idea to make ones job unnecessarily more difficult and complicated, and throw up barriers to shipping)

aj3 5y ago
LTSB is already not supported by various games, Adobe products and even MS Office.
- binarybanana 5y ago
  LTSC does work fine though, at least for all games I tried and it's supported until 2029. Question is how long you'll be able to get drivers and when games stop working on it. Dunno about other software, I only use Windows are a game console OS in a VM.
mickotron 5y ago
My PCs at home run linux. I run a Windows 10 VM on qemu/KVM for work, and that has worked for me for 16 months of remote work. The crazy hardware requirements for windows 11 won't apply to VMs apparently. And my work will provide me with a Microsoft account, so that is fine. Plus it's a work-only machine, clear segregation.

anotheryou 5y ago

they really know how to encourage piracy

sstephant 5y ago

You don't own the system anymore, the system owns you :/

isodev 5y ago
Technically we still own the hardware, we are just installing the "Windows Service" (OS as a Service?) on it.
- binarybanana 5y ago
  >Technically we still own the hardware Nope, signed firmware updates and no way to downgrade after the fact means the manufacturer ultimately has more control over "your" hardware than you do. You still "own" it in a legal sense, but not in the sense that it's completely under your control and only does what you think it does. I think a way to override that forced signed firmware crap should be mandated by law, but things are going the other way. If flashing unsigned firmware voided the warranty and made goatse show up at boot or whatever to warn about possibly unwanted modification that would be fine. Not having that option at all is bad for making full use of the hardware, bad for privacy and bad for security.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

As long as rdpwrap works

e-clinton 5y ago

I don’t think this is about telemetry. I think this is about Messaging. With Teams being integrated into Windows, every Win11 user will be a new Teams user and will push Teams to the billions of users eventually.

Santosh83 5y ago

Everybody is focusing on local/MS account. But for me the more insidious requirement is mandating TPM chip. Not only in the short term a ton of computers will either have to be discarded (because you can't add a TPM chip to an existing system despite 'open' PC architecture), or stay on outdated Win10, in the long term the DRM implications are worrying.

dogma1138 5y ago
Many PC motherboards have a TPM header either dedicated or sometimes shared with the USB 3.0 header. You can buy a 20 pin TPM module for about £3 which can plug into the standard header and for about £7-8 for those snowflakes like ASUS that use the same 20 pin interface but with a slightly modified pin out. The only question would be the BIOS initialization, but many OEMs have already released new BIOS revisions with added/better external TPM support or have announced their intention to do so. For those system who don’t have a TPM header, Intel PTT and AMD’s PSP fTPM would provide the required compatibility. And this is a good thing if this was still optional it would not put pressure on manufacturers to add TPM support as a standard feature. Windows 10 will be supported to at least 2025 with feature updates and probably longer with critical security updates. The fact that people complain about this is ridiculous.
- devetec 5y ago
  TPM modules are not £3. They're $50 or more now. Many people use older hardware without TPM support, and many people don't know what TPMs are and how to add them. Entire enterprises of hardware would have to be upgraded. It's a ploy to create more sales for hardware manufacturers.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    No they aren’t $50… since I don’t want to include eBay/Amazon here is from CCL computers in the UK for £8.99 https://m.cclonline.com/product/214437/90MC03W0-M0XBN/Component-Accessories/Asus-TPM-M-R2-0-14-Pin-Trusted-Platform-Module/ACC1757/ https://m.cclonline.com/product/214437/90MC03W0-M0XBN/Compon... Here is an ASRock one for £13.99 from Scan https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-trusted-platform-module-tpm-spi-141-pin-family-20-level-00-revision-0116 https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-trusted-platform-modu...

Zhyl 5y ago

To everyone reading this who feels uneasy about this, has broader concerns about the direction of desktop computing generally and Microsoft Windows specifically I say this: "give Linux a go". You may not like it, you may go back to Windows and decide that the dark patterns are worth the cost of things 'just working' etc, but I implore you to at least give it a go. Burn a Live USB. Boot it up and have a look around. If you're coming from Windows 10, try Linux mint or anything with the 'Cinnamon' Desktop. I say this mostly because the Hackernews crowd is generally pro-Linux as a concept, but sceptical of Linux as a daily driver. Those that do use it as a daily driver will (in my anecdotal experience) have been using it for 5-10 years or more and will have been used to making a good deal of compromises, or are tech savvy enough to have been able to fix things in the bad times. But in the last few years desktops have gotten really good. You will likely find one that you like out of the latest versions of Cinnamon, KDE or Gnome. Or MATE/XFCE/LMQT if you want to go back for a lightning-quick old school feel. Since 2018, thousands of games now work. It's now 'good enough' for pretty much all single player games. I ask people who haven't tried Linux since before then to have another try (or at the very least to look up the games they play on ProtonDB to see if they would work nowadays). In short, a larger (albeit probably still small) number of people who would have jumped the Windows ship in 2015 instead of going to 10 will actually be able to do so now instead of upgrading to Windows 11.

abraxas 5y ago
What's the status of SteamVR on Linux? VR is the sole reason I still have a windows machine around.
- devetec 5y ago
  An article about this: https://boilingsteam.com/the-state-of-virtual-reality-on-linux/ https://boilingsteam.com/the-state-of-virtual-reality-on-lin...
jlkuester7 5y ago
+1 Don't get overwhelmed by the miriad of Linux distros to choose from. As OP said, start with Linux Mint. It is super user-friendly and based on Ubuntu/Debian which makes it stable and widely supported in terms of applications, drivers, etc. You can always switch to something more exotic later if you want, but IMHO Mint is one of the best there is for a normal Desktop experience.

xg15 5y ago

> Microsoft does allow you many, many options to guard your privacy within Windows 10—but it’s also betting you won’t bother. I think this sums up the issues I have with most of the discussions where "consumer choice" or "personal responsibility" are touted. Yes, those are valid and important concepts - but if a company is emphasizing "choice" while at the same time having a vital interest that people "choose" against their own interests (or even manipulating people to that effect), the argument becomes obvious bullshit. It's like food companies emphasizing "consumer choice" whenever stricter regulations are on the table, yet at the same time opposing anything that would actually allow consumers to make an informed choice (like easy to understand nutrition labels).

JCWasmx86 5y ago
Tracking/Telemetry should always be opt-in. Or at least like: Do you want to send following data: <Data that will be collected,...> <legalese>: Big font: NO Small font: Yes This would be the fairest design for all. Users would be able to make informed consent, vendors get data on a moral good way.
- yrro 5y ago
  They would just do what most web sites do, and ask users again and again, every day, multiple times per day until the user cracks and irrevocably opts in.
makecheck 5y ago
This is kind of how I felt when originally using Facebook, LinkedIn, etc.; sure they have dozens of “privacy settings” but (1) I did not really want to spend hours checking all the boxes a certain way, (2) they could change at any time, e.g. some awful new setting would invariably appear, naturally with an equally-awful default value (from the user’s point of view), and (3) there is no guarantee these things are coded correctly. For (3), there’s a pretty good chance just from code rot that your “settings” may not always work. Certainly not if some company’s entire business model seems to depend on the more anti-consumer values for “settings”, you can bet they will not heavily invest in testing their accuracy. And the real problem for privacy-related settings is that if they ever fail to protect you, even being buggy for just a short period of time, your information is then out there. Leaked. Gone. Even if you close the barn door, the animals have left. It is the type of software that has to be working 100% of the time to really protect data. So I don’t really want privacy “settings”, I want privacy, period. That should be the default and only behavior, where the user has the only keys.

shrubble 5y ago

Thank God for the massive increase in CPU power of ARM microcontrollers and the retro-computing movement. Such as the Teensy 4.1, which can run CPM in emulation among other things. With a large capacity SD card, you could store a great deal of info on a non-compromised device. I believe that people will start using them as secure methods to store personal information away from the prying eyes of Microsoft et al.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

The subtext here is that you can't install Windows 11 Home you don't have an internet connection.

jlkuester7 5y ago

My list of applications that I need to run on Windows, instead if Linux, has almost completely disappeared (I can only think of one). I have used Linux for probably 15 years and can say that the user experience has never been better (for the lay person that just wants something that works). The final nail in the coffin of Windows for me is Steam Play. So many of my Windows games just work, right out of the box on Linux. It feels like magic compared to the old days of trying to hack together a workable Wine config...

nirui 5y ago

Well that's really a bold move, given the current states of their (confusing) account system and it's (even more confusing) integration, see: - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-security/windows-10-email-app-accounts-cannot-fix-account/95be0fdf-1301-4ad9-9993-1dcb6b2618d0 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings/microsoft-account-problem/19ff2771-d2e0-4a13-a0e2-fbb7d0a13435 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... - https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings/microsoft-account-problem/2f977223-e1d7-4c06-9749-ba69d1da4ece https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10... Or just search "Microsoft Account Problem".

jftuga 5y ago

What are the best Linux distros for developers?

_Understated_ 5y ago

My $0.02 I've been on Windows forever. Since DOS 3 or 4 I think (giving away my age there!) and until recently (last few years) it has fulfilled every one of my requirements, that is, games, development, consumption. I'm a .NET developer so the Windows ecosystem was a no-brainer: Visual Studio just works... sort of. As an end-user everything works: I don't need to install drivers, hit the command line or anything. Windows has been great over the years. However... The last few years have been a downward spiral. Not just downward, but accelerating downwards. It started (for me at least!) with the forced upgrade from Windows 7 (or 8, can't remember), then came the utterly shit Windows updates - The updates for Windows 10 are shite. Plain and simple. A couple of years ago I'd had enough so I disabled Windows updates so that I could install them well after their release date as I was sick of being their beta-tester. There are literally bugs with every update now. I know we are talking about a few years ago, but I absolutely did not have issues with updates on Windows 7. Ever! Windows 10 has at least one show-stopping bug every couple of months now (it seems like that anyway). It's now getting to the point that not only do I have less control over my own paid-for installation of Windows, but each update reduces my control ever more... I've harped on about it before (not just in this post, but others too) but disabling updates is a lesson in frustration. It's possible to do it but if you update later, they are switched back on - happens every time! Then there's the telemetry! I'm not going to labour this point as it has been done to death already over the years but the sheer fucking arrogance of a company that takes my money, reduces my control over my paid-for product, then says "oh, we're going to take data from your operating system whether you want us to or not" is beyond the pale! Yes, yes, I know Android spying is the stuff of legend but it has been like that from day one! It's how Google makes its money. Microsoft used to not be dicks about you having control over your OS. Those days are long gone. Dark patterns! Let me say NO to things and then just fuck off please! Why does everything have to be infantilized? Why does the YES button say "Yes please! I want rainbows and unicorns" and the NO button say "I'm a climate-denying terrorist if I click this". Worse, is when the "no" button says "maybe later" or "not right now". I hate that crap. And why do you have to make the positive button (I say positive, but I mean the button that's more beneficial to Microsoft!) massive and outlined when the other one is tiny and just text? Microsoft aren't the only ones that do that... I need to point that out! The need for the OS to constantly keep me informed, or tell me about X, or jump in my face with this thing, or show me the latest news tipped me over the edge. I want my operating system to do the following: 1. Store and launch my software 2. Be secure 3. Stay out of my way! That's it. I've had a few goes at Ubuntu and found it lacking. Nothing major but a few annoying things related to hardware: sound popping, graphics glitching, FF crashing, printer stopping working. Stuff like that but I'm on Pop! OS now. Just installed 20.04 the other day after playing with 20.10 for a couple of weeks (not a fan of 21.04 and I like the LTS idea especially when my livelihood depends on said computer!). I can still programme .NET stuff with Rider (getting the hang of it, it's quite nice and it is way more responsive than VS which has become a buggy nightmare over the years!). Docker allows me to run SQL server (still use that quite a lot) and, interestingly the Docker SQL image runs faster than SQL server when it was installed natively on my Windows box... weird! It's very noticeable too. Anyway, I'm too old to fight with the OS any more, and POP! seems to be ticking all the right boxes for now. I have to keep a W10 VM around for a couple of things but it's off most of the day. Edit: I had a go at the "leaked" version of Windows 11 and I wasn't enamored. As a friend of mine once said: "Same shite, different smell!"

c7DJTLrn 5y ago

That's OK. I have great faith in the huge community of hackers and tweakers that mess around with Windows - there will inevitably be a PowerShell script or Registry tweak for getting around it.

phendrenad2 5y ago

I'd love to see the Venn diagram of people who are put off by this, and people who still need to run windows programs and can't switch to Linux. Probably no overlap at all.

siddhant09 5y ago

Could future of computing be just computer clients leveraging the cloud compute? If services like Google Stadia becomes as ubiquitous as email, no average user would bat an eye on required web login. You want to render a complete VR map of a nation? Maybe you require petabytes of ram and compute power of a today's server farm? Worry not, your phone weighing 140g can do it, all by leveraging cloud compute. Even if this future doesn't materialize, incentives for MS are clear and this requirement shall open up more integration opportunities than before. Also there is no competition. Linux has the following problems which have largely remained unsolved, since the community fails to even recognize them as an issue. 1. No 1080p or 4K video playback on Netflix. 2. Not even 720p video playback on Amazon Prime Video. 3. Games take a performance hit. 4. Single click installations of .deb almost never works. .exe and .dmg are a much better user experience. 5. Ubuntu store is broken. It sometime loads, most times it doesn't. 6. Absence of Adobe. 7. An average user is expected to open up terminal when things go wrong and thing often do go wrong. An OS company can divide their customers into Developers, Video/Audio Editors, Content Consumption, Office work and Gamers. Linux only and only caters to us Developers.

tim333 5y ago

Though can't you just register an account like MickeyMouse123 @hotmail and use that? I know it's annoying but doesn't seem the end or the world. That said I dumped Windows after 7 and am a happy Mac/Linux user.