15 ms·

Steve Jobs in Kyoto

418 points by DanielleMolloy 5y ago

zerop 5y ago
Jobs was vegan, is that right?
- carlosdp 5y ago
  He was actually fruititarian, for most of his life.
  - fermentation 5y ago
    I didn't realize that this was actually real. I love fruit but I feel like all of the sugar would hurt me if it were the only thing that I ate.
    - whitepoplar 5y ago
      I wonder if that had anything to do with his pancreatic cancer
      - permalac 5y ago
        I think the actor doing Jobs had some pancreatic problems related to eating like Jobs. Don't quote me on that, please double check.
        steve_adams_86 5y ago
        Ashton Kutcher landed in hospital after following Steve Jobs's fruitarian diet https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-kutcher-hospital-steve-jobs-diet https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-kutcher-...
      - vntx 5y ago
        Likely. It probaby wasn't the only thing though. The high amounts of sugar, weird fasting habits, drug use, extreme stress he put himself in, and his arrogance in ignoring sound medical advice might have all helped do him in from what I gleaned from his biography. His pancreas could only take so much apparently.
    - fsckboy 5y ago
      there are "ethical" fruititarians, because fruits are gifts the plants offer up, but consuming a vegetable is eating the plant itself.
      - spfzero 5y ago
        There are a lot of plants that you can eat a little part of, which then grows back, like the leaves on chard or lettuce plants. In our garden the chard plants produced for months. In commercial farming, it's just cheaper to cut the entire plant off and clear the land for the next crop.
      - Clewza313 5y ago
        See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism
    - etempleton 5y ago
      Steve had a number of out there beliefs. At one point, before Co-founding Apple, Steve believed his fruit only diet would mean he no longer needed to shower, much to the dismay of his Atari coworkers. He also tried to fix his pancreatic cancer through diet. I suspect he had many more out there beliefs, but was self aware enough to keep them to his self.
  - sedatk 5y ago
    He had a favorite sushi place in Palo Alto. Maybe a pescaterian?
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      Ahh the worse diet for the environment. Seems fitting for Jobs.
      - Cmortoc 5y ago
        That seems counter to my understanding of diets. Do you have any sources about this? I'd like to learn if I've been making misinformed decisions.
        Clewza313 5y ago
        Many fish used for sushi, notably bluefin tuna (source of the ootoro tuna belly Jobs apparently loved), are not considered sustainable.
    - perfmode 5y ago
      Fuki?
      - sedatk 5y ago
        Jinsho
- objclxt 5y ago
  For the most part, but had a soft spot for sushi. I used to work in Infinite Loop and remember when Steve’s favourite sushi restaurant closed so the chef was hired to work in the canteen instead.
neom 5y ago
The Ryokan that they mention he always stayed at is apparently very good: https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-best-hotel-in-the-world/ https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-... "Concierge service at the breakfast table is good, but the story goes on. On my way out one of the porters silently approached me and said: “Schwarze-sama, we checked the weather forecast and there will be rain this evening. So here is an umbrella to take along. Also, we took the liberty of reserving a table at that restaurant you wanted to go. Oh and last thing: here is a city plan for you where we already detailed down the way to Fushimi Inari.” It goes without saying that the guy responsible for my shoes already set out my hiking shoes and not one of my city or evening shoes. Even he knew of my plans."
- timr 5y ago
  That article is a bit silly. While I'm sure it's nice, this is not one of the high-end ryokans in Kyoto, and by no means is it "the best hotel in Japan" (I lived in Kyoto, and have been there many times). Reading the reviews, it mainly sounds small and difficult to book, and it has a cult reputation. I was actually a little surprised Jobs stayed there, given that there are really high-end places where dignitaries and utra-rich people tend to stay. This particular place is not in a fancy or scenic area, though it is in a very convenient location, very near Teramachi, Sanjo, Kiyamachi, etc. Many of the elite ryokans are further out in more scenic areas (in Arashiyama, for example). The service standard in Japan is quite high, so pretty much any mid-range ryokan will provide an umbrella or making reservations for you. And if you're an internationally famous billionaire...
  - Marciplan 5y ago
    What makes you think SJ would appreciate what the ultra-billionaire appreciates, though? :)
    - bredren 5y ago
      Indeed, not all billionaires appreciate the same things.
  - 5y ago
jdkee 5y ago
See also https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1681/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1681/
reedf1 5y ago
Kyoto and the ryokan experience is incredible. I will go for the rest of my life.
- suction 5y ago
  I lived in Japan for three years and would always prefer a (classy) hotel. As would most Japanese.
  - staticautomatic 5y ago
    It’s a really neat experience but I wouldn’t go it again for more than a night. I hit my head on many doorways and am certain that if I’d stayed longer I would have eventually fallen through a wall.
    - dreamcompiler 5y ago
      Same here. Plus my knees were complaining about all the sleeping, eating, and sitting on the floor.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
pazimzadeh 5y ago
> Oshima says he would even jokingly ask Jobs to name one of Apple's products 'Hiro.' That's not a bad alternative to 'Siri'
- glandium 5y ago
  Fun fact: In Japanese there is no "Si" sound and the closest is "Shi", so "Siri" is pronounced "Shiri". You know what else is pronounced "Shiri" in Japanese? Buttocks (尻).
  - fundad 5y ago
    Is this some anti-gay shit? He was probably anti-gay being rich and straight…
    - jorts 5y ago
      No
      - MathYouF 5y ago
        しります (shirimasu) means "know", so, yes.
  - brandur 5y ago
    Totally irrelevant, but a related fact in this vein: I recently learned "尻" via WaniKani (a popular SRS system to help learn kanji), and the mnemonic they used to help you remember the reading of this kanji/vocabulary (お尻) is now inspired on Apple's Siri: https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/%E5%B0%BB https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/%E5%B0%BB > Now that you have nine flags inside your butt, you have to get them out. But, you don't know how to. So you ask Siri (しり — shi-ri), "how do I get nine flags out of my butt?" (Note: The kanji is composed of the radicals "nine" and "flag", which is how they get to "nine flags".) (Note: WaniKani's mnemonics are very often somewhat non-sensical slightly entertaining stories in the same style as this one. Very normal.)
    - 5y ago
nimbius 5y ago
>He might have been aware of when his life would end, since he passed away just one year later," says Ohnishi. "Maybe that's why he chose not to write the whole sentence, and only the first three words." This isnt a popular opinion since HN (and media) tends to deify Jobs, but people forget he died an ignorant death at his own hand. Jobs was diagnosed with a curable cancer and against all reason, he decided eating fruit would fix the problem. The idea that Jobs had any deep philosophical ponderance of the human condition or introspection on his own mortality is comical.
- vmception 5y ago
  Not to be meta contrarian but I think everyone understands his pattern of arrogance got the best of him with that fruit based diet from a nutritionist scam. The people that deify him mostly forget that actually running a company like him means requiring a bailout from your primary competitor, which means failure. edit: ok he wasn't there during that time period. A better example would be other areas of arrogance and not uplifting behavior.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    > The people that deify him mostly forget that actually running a company like him means requiring a bailout from your primary competitor, which means failure. There's plenty to criticize Jobs for, but this one doesn't make sense to me. Gates bailed out Apple in August 1997. Jobs departed Apple in 1985 and returned when the NeXT acquisition in February 1997. Do you think that the reason Apple sorely needed capital was primarily down to Jobs' decisions between February and August? Or was it some critical misstep in 1983-1984 manifesting 13 years later?
  - pram 5y ago
    He wasn't even at Apple for the entire decade preceding that bailout. People probably 'forgot' because it's not true at all!
    - radicaldreamer 5y ago
      It's the exact opposite of the original comment... without Jobs and his engineering of the bailout from Gates, Apple would've definitely failed! He was fantastic as a founder and loyal to his original company when the path of least resistance would've been totally different.
DenisM 5y ago
If you’re ever in Kyoto set aside a whole day for the train museum. It’s absolutely through the roof train paradise.
- m4rtink 5y ago
  Yeah, that what we did in 2017 - the fabulous Kyoto train station, Aquarium and mainly the fantastic train museum! :) Missed all the temples and shrines though. :P
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Excellent museum indeed. The kids love it too. And there's so much to see you can go several times to cover everything.
thom 5y ago
Fixed that for you: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ry%C5%8Dan-ji/@35.0343654,135.7181038,67m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x6001a82a301cbaa7:0xe1ab173e46d78542!8m2!3d35.034497!4d135.718298 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ry%C5%8Dan-ji/@35.0343654,...
- dEnigma 5y ago
  I was also thinking about a drone view or simply scaling the walls or trees nearby to try to get a full view of all 15 stones. Unfortunately the Google Maps image is quite low resolution and I can't achieve enlightenment.
  - thom 5y ago
    I will admit, my very strong urge to find a workaround here has led me to do a lot of reflection on myself, and on tech more generally.
ec109685 5y ago
Too bad he couldn’t have gotten his tour guide and friend in too: > When they returned, an interpreter was waiting for Jobs. Oshima waited outside in the car. > "When he came back out an hour later, he told me: 'I would like to have a garden like that.'"
- rkk3 5y ago
  Too bad he couldn't or too bad he didn't...
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  We don’t fraternise with the help, darling
fnord77 5y ago
> "But he has passed away and now he's in heaven." no, he doesn't exist anymore.
johnwheeler 5y ago
It always frustrates me when techies have an irreverence for Steve Jobs, or let his brashness overshadow the value he bestowed upon the world. Jobs was once asked what distinguishes the ordinary from the great, and he said it boils down to "taste". he also described his job as being "an editor". instead of adding more and more, he decided what to sacrifice and what to focus on making great. that's a rare quality, especially in tech.
- comice 5y ago
  I'm sure some don't give Jobs the credit he's due, but I'd say it's far more common for people to have too much reverence for him. You yourself here have reduced his often outrageous and terrible behaviour simply as "brashness".
- soperj 5y ago
  He set back wages for techies for years, and was a prick to his family & friends (disavowing his daughter, screwing Woz out of money). I don't care if he was the brightest guy on earth, or what "value" he bestowed on the world. He wasn't a good human being. Same goes for Gates.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Gates is borderline criminal
  - gridlockd 5y ago
    > He wasn't a good human being Good is the enemy of great.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    I have never liked Jobs (or even Apple) - even more so after the cult following his death - but nevertheless I would not pretend to know him and to be able to pass a final judgment on him as a human being. Maybe he was an asshole? Maybe he treated people badly? Yet people still worked for him and respected him nonetheless. And if we ever were in his position, would we be worse or better? It's not something we can easily know or guess.
dbish 5y ago
I have to assume their shared love of Japan is one of the reasons Jobs and Larry Ellison were so close.
sneak 5y ago
> "I told him it would be impossible to enter but he said he might have a way," says Oshima. "He called his secretary in the US and ten minutes later, I got a call from the Nomura headquarters saying that we had a reservation for a personal viewing the following day." My favorite casual Apple flex like this is the aerial screensaver on the Apple TV that was very obviously shot in 120fps in 4 or 8K (the published video is 4K) from a drone flying over an active LAX. (The drone's flight paths appear to be restricted to over the passenger terminal and taxiways, but still.) Most people would miss the significance, but very few organizations on Earth would be authorized to get such footage.
- blimplab 5y ago
  I'm having a difficulty fathoming (or believing) how this anecdote would be possible. When Steve Jobs' secretary picked up the phone, was it working hours? Brushing that aside, how could the secretary have called Nomura headquarters, reach the person who can grant access to the site, then have that person call the chauffeur within 10 minutes?
  - sneak 5y ago
    His personal secretarial staff was probably at least 5-10 people in total, with three shifts. Just having a megayacht[3] in a different time zone (e.g. in Europe) means you have to have three shift coverage to do management logistics for fueling/supply/HR/etc as it moves around between ports. They would already have his chauffeur’s number, and would be able to provide it to the people at the site (to enable a jp-jp conversation without sleepy California translators in the loop). The personal (not even professional) staff of people that rich/busy are frequently larger than most small startups. If you add in managing their security detail, that of their family members, travel, yachts, 3-10 different residential properties, all the associated vendors, et c, it adds up fast. It’s a full time job for at least a half-dozen people if you have enough property and helicopters. They’d also have private, direct numbers for a whole lot of extremely well-connected people who make it their business to pick up the phone when the three comma club calls them. He was running one of the largest and most important companies in the US at that time (separately from the fact that his personal fortune was immense), which means his staff would likely have access to many in government, military, diplomats, et c. Recall that Apple built a special spy iPod firmware for a classified project for the DOE to do espionage[1]. Google’s LSE used to park and fill up their private (not Google - personal) jet at Moffet, a military airfield next to the Googleplex. (They even got the reduced, government-internal-only tax subsidized price for jet fuel.[2]) They’re connected. The CEO of Apple (or Google, or Microsoft, et c) can, presumably, if necessary, speak to the POTUS same-day. Pulling some diplomatic strings to get a garden tour is entirely within the realm of believable. Billionaires inhabit a different world. [1]: https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ipod/ https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ip... [2]: https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/12/13/inspector-general-google-execs-saved-millions-on-jet-fuel-at-moffett https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/12/13/inspector-gen... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(yacht) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(yacht)
unixhero 5y ago
I agree with the late Steve; Kyoto is sublime.
WoodenChair 5y ago
If you go through the entire article, you'll find a link to a documentary that just came out about SJ's love of Japanese art. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/special/episode/202101020030/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/special/episode/202101020...
- maddyboo 5y ago
  Here’s a YouTube link: https://youtu.be/1HUUTzGDGVA https://youtu.be/1HUUTzGDGVA
  - 93po 5y ago
    It's funny to see this. In the past year or so I became very familiar with Hasui's works and now have more than a dozen prints of prints of his work on my walls. Several ones the same as what Jobs chose though perhaps that part is uninteresting since there's only about 100 to begin with I think. When I saw the scene of Bill's mother's house, two of the three she had on her wall were on my wall and visible as I watched this. Would love to get real prints one day but I'm happy with my replicas too. I suspect I'll never afford the real things. I've been somewhat tempted to learn a little about woodblock carving myself and perhaps make something more fun and modern with it.
- DanielleMolloy 5y ago
  Thanks, I had seen this one too (had even tried sharing it with HN in a parallel submission). It is made with a lot of care and tactfulness, and is one of the best documentaries about Steve Jobs I know. Little warning: It totally brought me to tears. I knew he liked Japanese aesthetics, but wasn't aware it meant so much for him.
SoylentYellow 5y ago
I wonder if the Nomura Villa is ever open for public viewing?
- Clewza313 5y ago
  The villa's homepage has an information page for public viewings, but states that "currently" there are none planned, and as far as I can tell that was written in 2008. http://hekiunsou.jp http://hekiunsou.jp
quicklime 5y ago
> Ohnishi started Jobs off with flounder sushi, then squid and shrimp...he served toro, the fatty part of tuna Was Steve Jobs not a vegetarian?
- alexjplant 5y ago
  Pescetarian, last time I checked Wikipedia. A Ctrl+F no longer yields this info, however, so I might be misremembering.
  - enraged_camel 5y ago
    He kept switching between all-fruit, vegan and pescetarian diets. His autobiography goes into it quite a bit.
    - quesera 5y ago
      > His autobiography s/auto// very unfortunately! Isaacson may have done the best job possible under the circumstances (authorized and rushed to publication), but I was disappointed.
      - easton 5y ago
        Becoming Steve Jobs was a better book from what I recall. No talking to Steve, but gave a more fair look at much of the business stuff he was involved in. I liked it more.
        fossuser 5y ago
        I really liked Small Fry. It’s written by his daughter and it’s more about her life and their relationship than his, but I think that’s the reason it’s really good. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/lisa-brennan-jobs-small-fry-steve-jobs-daughter https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/lisa-brennan-jobs-sm...
- schuke 5y ago
pmarreck 5y ago
I wish I had known of this side of him when I visited Japan 3 years ago :/ Interesting article! Also, the documentary someone else linked below is good!
prakashdanish 5y ago
Interesting, I was just finishing his biography and it was repeatedly mentioned how he was inspired by his trips to Kyoto and the Japanese Zen mindset in general. Also, his daughter and his son also wanted to visit Kyoto when Jobs asked them to pick a location upon graduation for the very same reasons. Personally, I loved Kyoto when I was in Japan for a week. It carries in itself an air of calm and serenity wherever you go. I remember I was walking around the homes and alleys outside of Fushimi Inari and it was as magical as the shrine itself.
higeorge13 5y ago
Kyoto is such an amazing place, truly unique. I have been there 3 times and i think i must have seen and experienced only 5% of it.
ksec 5y ago
Apple during Steve Jobs era felt very much as his interpretation of Japanese Culture and Zen Buddhism. Everything from Product Design to Apple Store and Services. The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. Tim Cook first visit to Japan was in 2016 for business reasons. So I am going to say he has very little understanding of Japanese Zen culture, everything Steve took and put it into Apple. Very unfortunate Tim Cook's Apple is nothing like Steve Jobs' Apple. It tuns out "Taste" and "Editor" is such a rare and unique skill set.
- gioele 5y ago
  > The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. cough Ruby cough
- tarsinge 5y ago
  > The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. Desktop software? Because video games show otherwise.
  - ksec 5y ago
    Yes, Desktop or mostly System Software and UI. And Gaming seems to shows they are perfectly capable of it. I dont know why. You could easily point out lots of industry standard software from US, Germany or UK. Even Australia for something like BlackMagic. But I cant think of one from Japan.
- javchz 5y ago
  Japanese Software development it's a weird beast. On one side you have people that managed to squeeze the last bit of clock cycles and memory in video games in the 90s, without losing sight of the creativity and human interaction. And that's rare, usually, people and teams are great in the technical space, or great on the abstract emotional one, but not both. A lot of them are a masterclass in UX that need not tutorials for complex topics. On the other hand, most of the Apps outside entertainment are only made by and for the Japanese market. I can not recall many recent names outside of LINE in the software field (and after WhatsApp added stickers... begun to fade away in the west; Today, I know more that use WeChat / Signal than LINE). But I don't think this it's a problem of lack of great developers or education (A lot of great CS papers, frameworks, and libraries are created by Japanese devs). My bet on the problem is in how businesses work in Japan. - They put a lot of effort into weird metrics hyper-focused on the local market - A hierarchy that puts a lot of weight on tradition and forms, rather than results (ie "appear productive" doing a lot of office hours). In defense of Japan, I would say that most industries outside of IT in the west, work kinda the same (MBAs for CTOs, etc).

Jobs was vegan, is that right?

carlosdp 5y ago
He was actually fruititarian, for most of his life.
- fermentation 5y ago
  I didn't realize that this was actually real. I love fruit but I feel like all of the sugar would hurt me if it were the only thing that I ate.
  - whitepoplar 5y ago
    I wonder if that had anything to do with his pancreatic cancer
    - permalac 5y ago
      I think the actor doing Jobs had some pancreatic problems related to eating like Jobs. Don't quote me on that, please double check.
      - steve_adams_86 5y ago
        Ashton Kutcher landed in hospital after following Steve Jobs's fruitarian diet https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-kutcher-hospital-steve-jobs-diet https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-kutcher-...
    - vntx 5y ago
      Likely. It probaby wasn't the only thing though. The high amounts of sugar, weird fasting habits, drug use, extreme stress he put himself in, and his arrogance in ignoring sound medical advice might have all helped do him in from what I gleaned from his biography. His pancreas could only take so much apparently.
  - fsckboy 5y ago
    there are "ethical" fruititarians, because fruits are gifts the plants offer up, but consuming a vegetable is eating the plant itself.
    - spfzero 5y ago
      There are a lot of plants that you can eat a little part of, which then grows back, like the leaves on chard or lettuce plants. In our garden the chard plants produced for months. In commercial farming, it's just cheaper to cut the entire plant off and clear the land for the next crop.
    - Clewza313 5y ago
      See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism
  - etempleton 5y ago
    Steve had a number of out there beliefs. At one point, before Co-founding Apple, Steve believed his fruit only diet would mean he no longer needed to shower, much to the dismay of his Atari coworkers. He also tried to fix his pancreatic cancer through diet. I suspect he had many more out there beliefs, but was self aware enough to keep them to his self.
- sedatk 5y ago
  He had a favorite sushi place in Palo Alto. Maybe a pescaterian?
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Ahh the worse diet for the environment. Seems fitting for Jobs.
    - Cmortoc 5y ago
      That seems counter to my understanding of diets. Do you have any sources about this? I'd like to learn if I've been making misinformed decisions.
      - Clewza313 5y ago
        Many fish used for sushi, notably bluefin tuna (source of the ootoro tuna belly Jobs apparently loved), are not considered sustainable.
  - perfmode 5y ago
    Fuki?
    - sedatk 5y ago
      Jinsho
objclxt 5y ago
For the most part, but had a soft spot for sushi. I used to work in Infinite Loop and remember when Steve’s favourite sushi restaurant closed so the chef was hired to work in the canteen instead.

neom 5y ago

The Ryokan that they mention he always stayed at is apparently very good: https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-best-hotel-in-the-world/ https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-review-... "Concierge service at the breakfast table is good, but the story goes on. On my way out one of the porters silently approached me and said: “Schwarze-sama, we checked the weather forecast and there will be rain this evening. So here is an umbrella to take along. Also, we took the liberty of reserving a table at that restaurant you wanted to go. Oh and last thing: here is a city plan for you where we already detailed down the way to Fushimi Inari.” It goes without saying that the guy responsible for my shoes already set out my hiking shoes and not one of my city or evening shoes. Even he knew of my plans."

timr 5y ago
That article is a bit silly. While I'm sure it's nice, this is not one of the high-end ryokans in Kyoto, and by no means is it "the best hotel in Japan" (I lived in Kyoto, and have been there many times). Reading the reviews, it mainly sounds small and difficult to book, and it has a cult reputation. I was actually a little surprised Jobs stayed there, given that there are really high-end places where dignitaries and utra-rich people tend to stay. This particular place is not in a fancy or scenic area, though it is in a very convenient location, very near Teramachi, Sanjo, Kiyamachi, etc. Many of the elite ryokans are further out in more scenic areas (in Arashiyama, for example). The service standard in Japan is quite high, so pretty much any mid-range ryokan will provide an umbrella or making reservations for you. And if you're an internationally famous billionaire...
- Marciplan 5y ago
  What makes you think SJ would appreciate what the ultra-billionaire appreciates, though? :)
  - bredren 5y ago
    Indeed, not all billionaires appreciate the same things.
- 5y ago

jdkee 5y ago

See also https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1681/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1681/

reedf1 5y ago

Kyoto and the ryokan experience is incredible. I will go for the rest of my life.

suction 5y ago
I lived in Japan for three years and would always prefer a (classy) hotel. As would most Japanese.
- staticautomatic 5y ago
  It’s a really neat experience but I wouldn’t go it again for more than a night. I hit my head on many doorways and am certain that if I’d stayed longer I would have eventually fallen through a wall.
  - dreamcompiler 5y ago
    Same here. Plus my knees were complaining about all the sleeping, eating, and sitting on the floor.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

pazimzadeh 5y ago

> Oshima says he would even jokingly ask Jobs to name one of Apple's products 'Hiro.' That's not a bad alternative to 'Siri'

glandium 5y ago
Fun fact: In Japanese there is no "Si" sound and the closest is "Shi", so "Siri" is pronounced "Shiri". You know what else is pronounced "Shiri" in Japanese? Buttocks (尻).
- fundad 5y ago
  Is this some anti-gay shit? He was probably anti-gay being rich and straight…
  - jorts 5y ago
    No
    - MathYouF 5y ago
      しります (shirimasu) means "know", so, yes.
- brandur 5y ago
  Totally irrelevant, but a related fact in this vein: I recently learned "尻" via WaniKani (a popular SRS system to help learn kanji), and the mnemonic they used to help you remember the reading of this kanji/vocabulary (お尻) is now inspired on Apple's Siri: https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/%E5%B0%BB https://www.wanikani.com/kanji/%E5%B0%BB > Now that you have nine flags inside your butt, you have to get them out. But, you don't know how to. So you ask Siri (しり — shi-ri), "how do I get nine flags out of my butt?" (Note: The kanji is composed of the radicals "nine" and "flag", which is how they get to "nine flags".) (Note: WaniKani's mnemonics are very often somewhat non-sensical slightly entertaining stories in the same style as this one. Very normal.)
  - 5y ago

nimbius 5y ago

>He might have been aware of when his life would end, since he passed away just one year later," says Ohnishi. "Maybe that's why he chose not to write the whole sentence, and only the first three words." This isnt a popular opinion since HN (and media) tends to deify Jobs, but people forget he died an ignorant death at his own hand. Jobs was diagnosed with a curable cancer and against all reason, he decided eating fruit would fix the problem. The idea that Jobs had any deep philosophical ponderance of the human condition or introspection on his own mortality is comical.

vmception 5y ago
Not to be meta contrarian but I think everyone understands his pattern of arrogance got the best of him with that fruit based diet from a nutritionist scam. The people that deify him mostly forget that actually running a company like him means requiring a bailout from your primary competitor, which means failure. edit: ok he wasn't there during that time period. A better example would be other areas of arrogance and not uplifting behavior.
- mlyle 5y ago
  > The people that deify him mostly forget that actually running a company like him means requiring a bailout from your primary competitor, which means failure. There's plenty to criticize Jobs for, but this one doesn't make sense to me. Gates bailed out Apple in August 1997. Jobs departed Apple in 1985 and returned when the NeXT acquisition in February 1997. Do you think that the reason Apple sorely needed capital was primarily down to Jobs' decisions between February and August? Or was it some critical misstep in 1983-1984 manifesting 13 years later?
- pram 5y ago
  He wasn't even at Apple for the entire decade preceding that bailout. People probably 'forgot' because it's not true at all!
  - radicaldreamer 5y ago
    It's the exact opposite of the original comment... without Jobs and his engineering of the bailout from Gates, Apple would've definitely failed! He was fantastic as a founder and loyal to his original company when the path of least resistance would've been totally different.

DenisM 5y ago

If you’re ever in Kyoto set aside a whole day for the train museum. It’s absolutely through the roof train paradise.

m4rtink 5y ago
Yeah, that what we did in 2017 - the fabulous Kyoto train station, Aquarium and mainly the fantastic train museum! :) Missed all the temples and shrines though. :P
ekianjo 5y ago
Excellent museum indeed. The kids love it too. And there's so much to see you can go several times to cover everything.

thom 5y ago

Fixed that for you: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ry%C5%8Dan-ji/@35.0343654,135.7181038,67m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x6001a82a301cbaa7:0xe1ab173e46d78542!8m2!3d35.034497!4d135.718298 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ry%C5%8Dan-ji/@35.0343654,...

dEnigma 5y ago
I was also thinking about a drone view or simply scaling the walls or trees nearby to try to get a full view of all 15 stones. Unfortunately the Google Maps image is quite low resolution and I can't achieve enlightenment.
- thom 5y ago
  I will admit, my very strong urge to find a workaround here has led me to do a lot of reflection on myself, and on tech more generally.

ec109685 5y ago

Too bad he couldn’t have gotten his tour guide and friend in too: > When they returned, an interpreter was waiting for Jobs. Oshima waited outside in the car. > "When he came back out an hour later, he told me: 'I would like to have a garden like that.'"

rkk3 5y ago
Too bad he couldn't or too bad he didn't...
dkdbejwi383 5y ago
We don’t fraternise with the help, darling

fnord77 5y ago

> "But he has passed away and now he's in heaven." no, he doesn't exist anymore.

johnwheeler 5y ago

It always frustrates me when techies have an irreverence for Steve Jobs, or let his brashness overshadow the value he bestowed upon the world. Jobs was once asked what distinguishes the ordinary from the great, and he said it boils down to "taste". he also described his job as being "an editor". instead of adding more and more, he decided what to sacrifice and what to focus on making great. that's a rare quality, especially in tech.

comice 5y ago
I'm sure some don't give Jobs the credit he's due, but I'd say it's far more common for people to have too much reverence for him. You yourself here have reduced his often outrageous and terrible behaviour simply as "brashness".
soperj 5y ago
He set back wages for techies for years, and was a prick to his family & friends (disavowing his daughter, screwing Woz out of money). I don't care if he was the brightest guy on earth, or what "value" he bestowed on the world. He wasn't a good human being. Same goes for Gates.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Gates is borderline criminal
- gridlockd 5y ago
  > He wasn't a good human being Good is the enemy of great.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  I have never liked Jobs (or even Apple) - even more so after the cult following his death - but nevertheless I would not pretend to know him and to be able to pass a final judgment on him as a human being. Maybe he was an asshole? Maybe he treated people badly? Yet people still worked for him and respected him nonetheless. And if we ever were in his position, would we be worse or better? It's not something we can easily know or guess.

dbish 5y ago

I have to assume their shared love of Japan is one of the reasons Jobs and Larry Ellison were so close.

sneak 5y ago

> "I told him it would be impossible to enter but he said he might have a way," says Oshima. "He called his secretary in the US and ten minutes later, I got a call from the Nomura headquarters saying that we had a reservation for a personal viewing the following day." My favorite casual Apple flex like this is the aerial screensaver on the Apple TV that was very obviously shot in 120fps in 4 or 8K (the published video is 4K) from a drone flying over an active LAX. (The drone's flight paths appear to be restricted to over the passenger terminal and taxiways, but still.) Most people would miss the significance, but very few organizations on Earth would be authorized to get such footage.

blimplab 5y ago
I'm having a difficulty fathoming (or believing) how this anecdote would be possible. When Steve Jobs' secretary picked up the phone, was it working hours? Brushing that aside, how could the secretary have called Nomura headquarters, reach the person who can grant access to the site, then have that person call the chauffeur within 10 minutes?
- sneak 5y ago
  His personal secretarial staff was probably at least 5-10 people in total, with three shifts. Just having a megayacht[3] in a different time zone (e.g. in Europe) means you have to have three shift coverage to do management logistics for fueling/supply/HR/etc as it moves around between ports. They would already have his chauffeur’s number, and would be able to provide it to the people at the site (to enable a jp-jp conversation without sleepy California translators in the loop). The personal (not even professional) staff of people that rich/busy are frequently larger than most small startups. If you add in managing their security detail, that of their family members, travel, yachts, 3-10 different residential properties, all the associated vendors, et c, it adds up fast. It’s a full time job for at least a half-dozen people if you have enough property and helicopters. They’d also have private, direct numbers for a whole lot of extremely well-connected people who make it their business to pick up the phone when the three comma club calls them. He was running one of the largest and most important companies in the US at that time (separately from the fact that his personal fortune was immense), which means his staff would likely have access to many in government, military, diplomats, et c. Recall that Apple built a special spy iPod firmware for a classified project for the DOE to do espionage[1]. Google’s LSE used to park and fill up their private (not Google - personal) jet at Moffet, a military airfield next to the Googleplex. (They even got the reduced, government-internal-only tax subsidized price for jet fuel.[2]) They’re connected. The CEO of Apple (or Google, or Microsoft, et c) can, presumably, if necessary, speak to the POTUS same-day. Pulling some diplomatic strings to get a garden tour is entirely within the realm of believable. Billionaires inhabit a different world. [1]: https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ipod/ https://tidbits.com/2020/08/17/the-case-of-the-top-secret-ip... [2]: https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/12/13/inspector-general-google-execs-saved-millions-on-jet-fuel-at-moffett https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/12/13/inspector-gen... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(yacht) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(yacht)

unixhero 5y ago

I agree with the late Steve; Kyoto is sublime.

WoodenChair 5y ago

If you go through the entire article, you'll find a link to a documentary that just came out about SJ's love of Japanese art. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/special/episode/202101020030/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/special/episode/202101020...

maddyboo 5y ago
Here’s a YouTube link: https://youtu.be/1HUUTzGDGVA https://youtu.be/1HUUTzGDGVA
- 93po 5y ago
  It's funny to see this. In the past year or so I became very familiar with Hasui's works and now have more than a dozen prints of prints of his work on my walls. Several ones the same as what Jobs chose though perhaps that part is uninteresting since there's only about 100 to begin with I think. When I saw the scene of Bill's mother's house, two of the three she had on her wall were on my wall and visible as I watched this. Would love to get real prints one day but I'm happy with my replicas too. I suspect I'll never afford the real things. I've been somewhat tempted to learn a little about woodblock carving myself and perhaps make something more fun and modern with it.
DanielleMolloy 5y ago
Thanks, I had seen this one too (had even tried sharing it with HN in a parallel submission). It is made with a lot of care and tactfulness, and is one of the best documentaries about Steve Jobs I know. Little warning: It totally brought me to tears. I knew he liked Japanese aesthetics, but wasn't aware it meant so much for him.

SoylentYellow 5y ago

I wonder if the Nomura Villa is ever open for public viewing?

Clewza313 5y ago
The villa's homepage has an information page for public viewings, but states that "currently" there are none planned, and as far as I can tell that was written in 2008. http://hekiunsou.jp http://hekiunsou.jp

quicklime 5y ago

> Ohnishi started Jobs off with flounder sushi, then squid and shrimp...he served toro, the fatty part of tuna Was Steve Jobs not a vegetarian?

alexjplant 5y ago
Pescetarian, last time I checked Wikipedia. A Ctrl+F no longer yields this info, however, so I might be misremembering.
- enraged_camel 5y ago
  He kept switching between all-fruit, vegan and pescetarian diets. His autobiography goes into it quite a bit.
  - quesera 5y ago
    > His autobiography s/auto// very unfortunately! Isaacson may have done the best job possible under the circumstances (authorized and rushed to publication), but I was disappointed.
    - easton 5y ago
      Becoming Steve Jobs was a better book from what I recall. No talking to Steve, but gave a more fair look at much of the business stuff he was involved in. I liked it more.
      - fossuser 5y ago
        I really liked Small Fry. It’s written by his daughter and it’s more about her life and their relationship than his, but I think that’s the reason it’s really good. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/lisa-brennan-jobs-small-fry-steve-jobs-daughter https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/lisa-brennan-jobs-sm...
schuke 5y ago

pmarreck 5y ago

I wish I had known of this side of him when I visited Japan 3 years ago :/ Interesting article! Also, the documentary someone else linked below is good!

prakashdanish 5y ago

Interesting, I was just finishing his biography and it was repeatedly mentioned how he was inspired by his trips to Kyoto and the Japanese Zen mindset in general. Also, his daughter and his son also wanted to visit Kyoto when Jobs asked them to pick a location upon graduation for the very same reasons. Personally, I loved Kyoto when I was in Japan for a week. It carries in itself an air of calm and serenity wherever you go. I remember I was walking around the homes and alleys outside of Fushimi Inari and it was as magical as the shrine itself.

higeorge13 5y ago

Kyoto is such an amazing place, truly unique. I have been there 3 times and i think i must have seen and experienced only 5% of it.

ksec 5y ago

Apple during Steve Jobs era felt very much as his interpretation of Japanese Culture and Zen Buddhism. Everything from Product Design to Apple Store and Services. The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. Tim Cook first visit to Japan was in 2016 for business reasons. So I am going to say he has very little understanding of Japanese Zen culture, everything Steve took and put it into Apple. Very unfortunate Tim Cook's Apple is nothing like Steve Jobs' Apple. It tuns out "Taste" and "Editor" is such a rare and unique skill set.

gioele 5y ago
> The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. cough Ruby cough
tarsinge 5y ago
> The only thing that Japanese dont get ( and they somehow still dont ) is Software. Desktop software? Because video games show otherwise.
- ksec 5y ago
  Yes, Desktop or mostly System Software and UI. And Gaming seems to shows they are perfectly capable of it. I dont know why. You could easily point out lots of industry standard software from US, Germany or UK. Even Australia for something like BlackMagic. But I cant think of one from Japan.
javchz 5y ago
Japanese Software development it's a weird beast. On one side you have people that managed to squeeze the last bit of clock cycles and memory in video games in the 90s, without losing sight of the creativity and human interaction. And that's rare, usually, people and teams are great in the technical space, or great on the abstract emotional one, but not both. A lot of them are a masterclass in UX that need not tutorials for complex topics. On the other hand, most of the Apps outside entertainment are only made by and for the Japanese market. I can not recall many recent names outside of LINE in the software field (and after WhatsApp added stickers... begun to fade away in the west; Today, I know more that use WeChat / Signal than LINE). But I don't think this it's a problem of lack of great developers or education (A lot of great CS papers, frameworks, and libraries are created by Japanese devs). My bet on the problem is in how businesses work in Japan. - They put a lot of effort into weird metrics hyper-focused on the local market - A hierarchy that puts a lot of weight on tradition and forms, rather than results (ie "appear productive" doing a lot of office hours). In defense of Japan, I would say that most industries outside of IT in the west, work kinda the same (MBAs for CTOs, etc).