6 ms·

> The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically about it. On the flip side, if you step outside the

by qqtt 5y ago

> The basic life script we all seem to have in western society seems pretty awful when you think critically about it. On the flip side, if you step outside the bubble of comfort that Western society generally affords people, you'll find that life is "nasty, brutish & short" as Hobbes put it. We've come a very very long way in a short time towards raising our standard of living and our expectations for what our lives can be - especially for regular folk from humble beginnings who aren't born into huge advantages. Not to say that we can't improve things further for Western society, but just to say that the script we are generally given is pretty damn good compared to historical averages.

Aeolun 5y ago
> just to say that the script we are generally given is pretty damn good Honestly, it’s so good it’s boring. Not much challenge to life if the only thing you need to do to continue existing is plant your ass in the same chair every day.
- nine_k 5y ago
  Nobody guarantees you that chair.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    True, but if you live anywhere in western Europe you have to work really hard to fuck up your life forever.
esperent 5y ago
I live in a non-western low income country. Life is not "nasty, brutish and short". Honestly, it makes me pretty angry when I hear people from the west espouse this sentiment. Have you ever lived in a non-western country, to state that with such assurance? Life here is beautiful, the sense of community is so much stronger than it is in the west and overall I'd say that people are less stressed. On the flip side, many things are harder for sure - wages are low and working hours are long, good healthcare is hard come by for many people. Short of living in an active conflict zone, of which there are only a few in the world, thankfully, life is not "nasty, brutish, and short". Perhaps, in future, before making such statements about the lives of people from cultures other than your own, you could take a few moments to try and empathize with them instead?
- russelldjimmy 5y ago
  I think I get where you are coming from. I too live in a non-western third world nation. I relate to the points you make. But it isn’t obvious to me that the commenter meant to belittle life outside western nations. I think this wasn’t meant to be west vs non-west argument IMHO.
- qqtt 5y ago
  "Bubbles of comfort" are not unique to Western countries, that is true. Every country on the planet offers a subset of their population a great life style, the only variable is how much of the country actually gets a) to partake in that lifestyle b) has the tools to reach that lifestyle when starting outside of it Doesn't matter if you are talking about North Korea or the United States. And yes, you can find abject generational poverty in the United States as well. The fact you could post your comment puts you in the top 40% of the world (roughly 60% don't have internet access). If you have internet from a mobile phone, you are roughly in the top 50%. Are you really looking outside your bubble of comfort?
  - peterlk 5y ago
    I similarly think that you are applying a techno-utopian lens to your analysis. My family and I have spent time with many people who did not have internet or other modern amenities (Mongolia, Mali, Burkina Faso, Kazakhstan, and several others), and your statement does not hold. It is not _entirely_ untrue, because a bacterial infection can kill you, however, the dynamics of life are just... different. People are still capable of all the emotion and fulfillment that you and I are, but life is slower, simpler, and more well-defined, so it is often easier to feel happy and fulfilled.
  - ryloric 5y ago
    I think you missed what the parent poster might be saying, it's not about "Bubbles of Comfort". I too live in one of those countries like you put it, and while I live in the bubble to some extent, I know people who've never used internet or a smartphone/computer in their entire lives and live a decently happy stress-free life. Their lives are not nasty or brutish, they're not leading less-fulfilling lives as a result. On the contrary, I think most of them are happier, more content and wiser than me. What you might be doing I think... is making the assumption that technology, 'things' like gadgets or better cars and modern medical health is central to human life. Yes, life would objectively improve if you have those, but if I have to work 60 hours a week doing something I don't really care about, then is that really a good trade-off? I think the answer is not the same as yours for everyone.
mellavora 5y ago
I'm positive to your overall sentiment that we should remember the physical health and comfort which we have achieved. The Hobbes quote, however, does not apply. Hobbes was comparing life with/without a sufficiently strong Leviathan ('central government') to provide basic protection of property rights, or at least a semblance of such protection. But the "long way" to which you refer, the physical comfort of modern life, is the fruit of the industrial revolution, roughly 150 years of history. Hobbes was much earlier, he probably never saw the IR coming.
tluyben2 5y ago
Universal income would be a next step in that.

by qqtt 5y ago

Aeolun 5y ago

> just to say that the script we are generally given is pretty damn good Honestly, it’s so good it’s boring. Not much challenge to life if the only thing you need to do to continue existing is plant your ass in the same chair every day.

nine_k 5y ago
Nobody guarantees you that chair.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  True, but if you live anywhere in western Europe you have to work really hard to fuck up your life forever.

esperent 5y ago

I live in a non-western low income country. Life is not "nasty, brutish and short". Honestly, it makes me pretty angry when I hear people from the west espouse this sentiment. Have you ever lived in a non-western country, to state that with such assurance? Life here is beautiful, the sense of community is so much stronger than it is in the west and overall I'd say that people are less stressed. On the flip side, many things are harder for sure - wages are low and working hours are long, good healthcare is hard come by for many people. Short of living in an active conflict zone, of which there are only a few in the world, thankfully, life is not "nasty, brutish, and short". Perhaps, in future, before making such statements about the lives of people from cultures other than your own, you could take a few moments to try and empathize with them instead?

russelldjimmy 5y ago
I think I get where you are coming from. I too live in a non-western third world nation. I relate to the points you make. But it isn’t obvious to me that the commenter meant to belittle life outside western nations. I think this wasn’t meant to be west vs non-west argument IMHO.
qqtt 5y ago
"Bubbles of comfort" are not unique to Western countries, that is true. Every country on the planet offers a subset of their population a great life style, the only variable is how much of the country actually gets a) to partake in that lifestyle b) has the tools to reach that lifestyle when starting outside of it Doesn't matter if you are talking about North Korea or the United States. And yes, you can find abject generational poverty in the United States as well. The fact you could post your comment puts you in the top 40% of the world (roughly 60% don't have internet access). If you have internet from a mobile phone, you are roughly in the top 50%. Are you really looking outside your bubble of comfort?
- peterlk 5y ago
  I similarly think that you are applying a techno-utopian lens to your analysis. My family and I have spent time with many people who did not have internet or other modern amenities (Mongolia, Mali, Burkina Faso, Kazakhstan, and several others), and your statement does not hold. It is not _entirely_ untrue, because a bacterial infection can kill you, however, the dynamics of life are just... different. People are still capable of all the emotion and fulfillment that you and I are, but life is slower, simpler, and more well-defined, so it is often easier to feel happy and fulfilled.
- ryloric 5y ago
  I think you missed what the parent poster might be saying, it's not about "Bubbles of Comfort". I too live in one of those countries like you put it, and while I live in the bubble to some extent, I know people who've never used internet or a smartphone/computer in their entire lives and live a decently happy stress-free life. Their lives are not nasty or brutish, they're not leading less-fulfilling lives as a result. On the contrary, I think most of them are happier, more content and wiser than me. What you might be doing I think... is making the assumption that technology, 'things' like gadgets or better cars and modern medical health is central to human life. Yes, life would objectively improve if you have those, but if I have to work 60 hours a week doing something I don't really care about, then is that really a good trade-off? I think the answer is not the same as yours for everyone.

mellavora 5y ago

I'm positive to your overall sentiment that we should remember the physical health and comfort which we have achieved. The Hobbes quote, however, does not apply. Hobbes was comparing life with/without a sufficiently strong Leviathan ('central government') to provide basic protection of property rights, or at least a semblance of such protection. But the "long way" to which you refer, the physical comfort of modern life, is the fruit of the industrial revolution, roughly 150 years of history. Hobbes was much earlier, he probably never saw the IR coming.

tluyben2 5y ago

Universal income would be a next step in that.