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When they work well, they're really good, but when they work badly, they're _really_ bad. The other week, I went for dinner at a place that had a online orderi

• Robotbeat 5y ago
  Having to have a phone signal to receive a wifi confirmation code is one of my least favorite things ever.
• vmception 5y ago
  I haven't seen anything that bad since last summer. Actually I've seen some QR code and online based checkout systems that were bad, but I just ignore those with a "I'm not signing up for that"
• HelloNurse 5y ago
  Assuming there was another restaurant nearby, I'd have simplified the process to "go outside". If a restaurant is too cheap to print a menu, why should I consider it good enough for me?
  • topicseed 5y ago
    With covid, many restaurants removed paper menus to avoid transmission. I hate QR codes so that was a move I was not in favour of.....
    • nly 5y ago
      Laminated menus that you can spray and wipe off would make a lot more sense.
      • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
        It’s as if Denny’s has been ahead of the game all a long
        • atatatat 5y ago
          Assume you're disgusting, work backwards from there.
          • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
            Don’t be acting like Denny’s is a Waffle House.
      • bloak 5y ago
        On the other hand, pathogens survive longer on a smooth surface than on a rough absorbant surface, and I would guess that they are more likely to be transferred from a smooth surface onto somebody's hand than from a rough absorvant surface. So, taking account of people perhaps not doing all that spraying and wiping properly, a paper menu might turn out to be safer after all.
        • nly 5y ago
          Then destroy and replace them with every service? it's only a printed sheet
        • mosselman 5y ago
          I could be wrong, as I often am, but I think getting covid from a surface is recently proven to be highly unlikely.
          • 5y ago
• ho_schi 5y ago
  Adding the next hurdle and man-in-the-middle with "Apple Pay"?
  • scrollaway 5y ago
    Apple Pay is no more of a hurdle/mitm than whatever payment gateway they were using.
    • ho_schi 5y ago
      Things are not "good" because somebody made you feel it is comfortable. 800 Euro for an Apple device, account at Apple, network connection with provider and full battery - together with a credit card and all of that is no hurdle? You can just pay immediately with cash. And nobody will be informed about it! Words of critique upon Apple are usually not welcome here. When I look how bad entitlement handling is with MacOS I have more critique...beware.
      • hencoappel 5y ago
        I'm not endorsing Apple Pay, but I also don't carry cash, so how am I supposed to pay? Sure I can pay by card, but now the credit card company knows what I'm buying. Also that involves another person who has to come accept the payment which I could've done in peace on my phone using Apple/Google pay. Not everyone want to carry cash around.
      • scrollaway 5y ago
        I don't have an iPhone. So, recontextualize my comment in that light, and give it a more charitable reading. Apple pay is, for the poster, a stand in for NFC pay of some sort. Which indeed requires a device, which indeed is its own class of requirement, but also, cash works even if less practical.
      • EricE 5y ago
        However if I happen to have an Apple device it's by far and away the easiest (and most secure) way for me to pay. And yes, I do prioritize places that take Apple Pay over those that do not. There are lots of iPhone users and often business can getting better (lower) processing fees by accepting more secure methods like Apple pay so if it's literally just flipping a switch and possibly paying a bit less for processing why wouldn't a business do it?
• egman_ekki 5y ago
  I can already see myself, as a tourist who buys a US SIM card to get data on vacation, having to add a SIM card swap to this ordeal to confirm debit card transaction via my EU phone number. Why, oh why...
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • oleks 5y ago
    Aren't most smartphones dual-sim by now?
    • rplnt 5y ago
      No, most aren't.
      • hungryforcodes 5y ago
        I would dispute that -- except for iPhones -- almost all the smart phones I've seen sold in Asia are dual SIM.
        • rplnt 5y ago
          That could have something to do with it. I've ordered from India before when I wanted a dual sim android. Local stock for that model was single sim only. Looked at gsmarena now and indeed most models have dual-sim versions (as well as single sim). But when I look at a local store, it seems that roughly 1/2 has dual sims (that's including eSIM).
        • malka 5y ago
          > sold in Asia irrelevant.
          • colinmhayes 5y ago
            If we're talking about tourists it definitely isn't. In fact, the phones that are sold in the US are the irrelevant ones.
• peterwandering 5y ago
  I would have left after 1 minute. Enough restaurants that work without this bullshit. Plus I can't scan a QR code at all with my phone.
  • stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Or you could ask for a printed menu, it's not hard. Every place I've been to with QR cards has that option. The sense of entitlement and grumpiness these days is unsettling.
• mxmlndr 5y ago
  I had a completely different situation last year. Checked in via QR (no account needed), ordered my drinks, got them quick, could also pay them with PayPal. The last thing was great because I hate waiting for a waiter to get my bill and pay it. And I could add tips in this 'app' as well. But maybe I was just lucky that my first experience with QR-codes in a restaurant was so positive.
  • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    I’m not pulling my phone out at dinner.
  • Davertron 5y ago
    I've had similar really good experiences, but it's probably just luck. The last place I went to they used https://pos.toasttab.com/ https://pos.toasttab.com/. It was quick, easy, everyone at the table was able to pay for their own food without having to worry about dividing up the bill, it was easy to order additional items without having to wait for the waiter to come around, etc. And, fwiw, it didn't seem to affect the social aspect of my dinner at all. Normally we all would have been sitting quietly looking at the menu, instead we all sat quietly and looked at our phones. After we ordered, everyone put their phones away and we had a good time.
  • conductr 5y ago
    It's been hit and miss. I've had good and bad. The best I've found are; 1. QR code to PDF of full actual menu. If they direct you to a HTML page is usually awful and is accordion based mobile UI that involves a bunch of clicking in and out. A PDF can be zoomed in/out but all the content is right there. 2. QR code to pay. This is great when it comes on your bill and you can just pay and leave. However, if it allows Apple pay it's very smooth. Unfortunately, most of the systems involve a web based checkout flow including manual credit card entry and capturing more info than is really needed (email/phone) so they can spam you later.
• seb1204 5y ago
  Is the online ordering system a cost cutting measure to save on staff or seen as a user benefit?
  • atatatat 5y ago
    If you're "good" at marketing, both.
• makach 5y ago
  this. I do not miss 400 options(!) nor the icky stick menus that sticks together like a 80's playboy magazine. Its good to see digital revolution embrace restaurants. I'd much rather struggle with my phone and my own grime than fiddling with the menu.
  • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
    It’s hostile to the experience. It takes me out of why I went to a restaurant I the first place. I want to sit down and focus on my present company and forget about my digital life. This isn’t a new experience, Red Robin and Ruby Tuesday have/had a tablet checkout system that was a chore to use. I started removing restaurants that used similar systems from my rotation because they ruin the experience.
    • YarickR2 5y ago
      It's hostile to your experience; others (me included) find QR codes quite handy and saving time and efforts
      • bluGill 5y ago
        QR codes are a tool. It isn't the fault of the hammer that sometimes they are used to kill people. Likewise it isn't the fault of QR codes that many times they are used for something that isn't useful (at least they can't kill). When I'm at a museum I love the ability to scan a QR code and get a lot of detailed information that wouldn't fit on a sign - but often I just want the small sign and then I move on to the next exhibit.
        • stjohnswarts 5y ago
          a great combination is a short summary with a QR code for more info if you want it. It doesn't have to be rocket surgery.
• jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  Where do they work well? I still have to pull out my phone and switch to the camera app, open a browser to whatever link is in the qr code. This process is already too many points of failure.
  • bruce343434 5y ago
    Not to mention tedious
• eCa 5y ago
  > Connect to the wifi, get a captive portal > Need to put my phone number in to connect to the wifi; there is no signal, so I need to go outside, to receieve the confirmation code. Somewhere around these steps is where I would leave. It’s the equivalent of sitting at a table for 15 minutes waiting for the waiter to give my group menus[1] - they don’t want me as their guest. [1] It happened, both the waiting and the leaving before ever getting menus. That restaurant taught me that if the service is bad before even ordering the food one shouldn’t be afraid to leave.
  • carschno 5y ago
    I fully agree with the addition that personal interaction can make waiting for 15 minutes acceptable if a reasonable explanation is given. I can accept that something has gone wrong if somebody feels responsible and apologizes for the mishap. It might even develop into an occasion for a welcome chat with restaurant staff. For instance, I recently visited a newly opened restaurant at its 2nd day where we had to wait for the food very long. The server apologized and talked about the challenges they've encountered, and gave us a free soup with bread. This can still be annoying if you are in a hurry. However, we were not and so it gave us the opportunity to get in touch with the new staff, increasing the likelihood of us going back there. In a non-personal QR code setup, on the other hand, responsibility is shifted to some bureaucratic process which is nothing but frustrating. As noted in the article, most/many people do not go out for diner to quickly buy and consume a meal, but to spend nice time with people. 15 minutes waiting time spent chatting with a waiter or with each other even has the potential to contribute to a positive experience, whereas 15 minutes setting up your smartphone definitely does not.
    • eCa 5y ago
      > I fully agree with the addition that personal interaction can make waiting for 15 minutes acceptable if a reasonable explanation is given. Absolutely. In this case however, there were multiple waiters refusing eye contact while passing right by our table and there were also other tables right by ours that got there after us and was being taken care of. It was as if we weren’t there.
• tester34 5y ago
  what if I dont have smartphone?
  • xxpor 5y ago
    Then sucks for you. There's not enough people in the demographics the restaurant cares about to make an accommodation. It's like when people complain pages are broken when they turn off JavaScript.
    • tester34 5y ago
      I guess I must be happy that I can still pay with real money or perform contactless payment with cards
• shoulderfake 5y ago
  Buddy how did you not just leave the place as soon as you saw there's no network connection ?
• ta988 5y ago
  This is just yet another way to monetize people data. I saw that once and left the restaurant. There was no technical problem to solve here. Give paper with checkboxes it is much more convenient.
• rndgermandude 5y ago
  I would use a QR menu to browse, if it works well enough, and otherwise ask for a real menu or else just leave. What I will not do is make accounts, or fill in an online order form. And I will not give out any personal information, including my email, without very good reason. Last year here in Germany the government started to require restaurants to take down the name, address, phone number of every customer, so they could contact trace if there was an outbreak. Fine by me, in these special circumstances. But one restaurant we visited actually had a waiter show up with a tablet showing some online form I was supposed to fill out. I told her "No thanks, please get me a piece of paper and I will write it down". The owner then came with pen and paper, and we had a nice and friendly chat. He explained that he wanted to make it easy and "cool" with tech. It also turned out that his "tech-wiz" nephew had coded up that online form for him last minute (very cliché :p). I explained to him that while understandable, it's actually harder for a lot of people to type on these things (including me to a degree) than use a pen and paper - the owner thought for a few moments and admitted that he too finds it easier to use a real pen "at his age" - and that storing this kind of information in digital form is just one mishap away from really angry (former) customers and GDPR penalties, and how managing this kind of data is actually harder to get right in digital form than collecting some pieces of paper and running them through the shredder some 4 weeks later. We visited the same place about a month later, and they had switched to pen and paper entirely. I like to think our talk helped them with that decision. I cannot really fault that owner. He was trying to do the best in a suddenly changed and shitty situation, and in his line of business he didn't really have to deal with privacy issues and the associated dangers and regulations before, other than cashless payments where the payment processor does most of the heavy lifting and compliance anyway.
• w0m 5y ago
  Yea; that's a clearly broken system. 2-3 clicks to look at menu is fine. Filling in credit card info in-phone is too far.
• resonious 5y ago
  On the general topic of "technology in restaurants", I've noticed an increasing number of restaurants where the waitstaff uses phones/tablets with some kind of specialized app. This happens often: we start telling them our order, and they have to say "wait a sec.... (taps phone for several seconds) okay what was that?". The "UX" as a patron is pretty bad compared to the waitstaff just whipping out a notepad and scribbling as we order, or better yet memorizing the orders.
  • syshum 5y ago
    Several of the large chains already have pay at table kiosk's I have always wondered why they just do not have order at table as well... I am waiting for the first restaurant that only has Cooks and Food Runners with no traditional waitstaff... This will likely coincide with the removal of tipping as a custom in the US. We will move to kiosk ordering, press a button to get drink refills, pay at the table, and leave.
    • rdtwo 5y ago
      Tipping isn’t going away, an entire industry of wage suppression and exploitation is based on it
      • syshum 5y ago
        Except it is not, but ok. I bet you are one of those people that believe wait staff only make $2/hr right?
        • jbluepolarbear 5y ago
          It’s closer to $3/hr before tips. If they don’t make minimum wage from tips and $3/hr the restaurant must supplement to at least minimum wage. That’s a lot to just make minimum wage.
          • syshum 5y ago
            Well lets do some math. Around here an average meal at a restaurant would be about $14 lunch and $18 dinner per person. So to make the often promoted $15/hr wage, the server would need to clear $96 in tips over the base wage of $3/hr. At an average of 18% tips that would mean the ticket revenue would need to be $534 for the shift. @16 avg per person that is about 4 people per hour, or 1 or 2 tables per hour If the restaurant is that slow, that the server is only serving 1 table per hour, well chances are the server needs to look for another job anyway because that place will not be in business very long. This is also why alot of servers I know prefer the tipped model over a higher base wage, if a strait 15/hr wage was created with no tips, many servers would make LESS money then under the current system Most of the people calling for a $15/hr base wage have a delusional belief they will make $15/hr PLUS tips... that is never going to happen
• stemlord 5y ago
  The only QR related issue here is lack of signal, everything else is irrelevant
  • the__alchemist 5y ago
    You shouldn't need internet connectivity or a smart phone to view the menu.
    • stemlord 5y ago
      Agreed
    • stryker7001 5y ago
      Why? its 2021. Everything is connected. You're on a hacker website.
      • stemlord 5y ago
        Not everything is online and many things that are were better off when they weren't.
• sidlls 5y ago
  I'd leave as soon as I could not use the system without connecting to their WiFi, and especially if it required any personal information at all to do so. I have a VPN, but that's just too much.
• signal11 5y ago
  These places are unwittingly teaching their customers that they'll have a superior experience by using a food delivery service such as Uber Eats.
• mrlala 5y ago
  Don't forget to pay that 20% tip because how else would the servers make anything........
• denysvitali 5y ago
  Had a similar experience: this awesome takeaway / pizza place had an ordering system completely online, great! The only downside? After deciding what to eat, adding the table number and pressing "order"... you discover that you can only pay by credit card (I mostly use debit). No option to pay in cash. I had to go to the cashier, re-order everything, tell her my table number and pay in cash. Not that huge of a deal, first world problems, but still - they could have stated right away the payment methods for the online thing.
• bshep 5y ago
  So, if they have a captive portal, why not put the menu there before you login? That would even make the QR code a moot point, scan QR code or just connect to the wifi and menu magically appears…
• nikau 5y ago
  Pretty poor design not to disable auth for the ordering system domain.
• 3np 5y ago
  That sounds excruciating. Would absolutely make my blood boil. I had the opposite experience today: Arrive at the table, scan the QR code Connect to the wifi, just a short PSK, no captive portal Order food from web page (no registration or account, the QR code is already set up to be my table). Extra-options for the dishes available. Initiate second order, add some 0-cost salt, mayo, and water. Payment didn't involve the website at all, just paid at the register with cash like normal. At no point was I urged to enter any personal information or install an app.
• hedora 5y ago
  Just tell them your phone is not working, and ask for a menu.