7 ms·

Now if I understand correctly, unless someone inherits a private key of his, his bitcoins are effectively dead now, right? I wonder how this will impact the eco

by macksd 5y ago

Now if I understand correctly, unless someone inherits a private key of his, his bitcoins are effectively dead now, right? I wonder how this will impact the economics of cryptocurrencies over time: I'm starting to see more and more reminders to congratulate dead people on work anniversaries on LinkedIn, and it feels quite morbid.

msslx 5y ago
social recovery wallets [1] may be a solution to this problem. [1] https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html
- thegreatpeter 5y ago
  But they’re not yet so 1B of Bitcoin just went bye bye
  - DennisP 5y ago
    Bitcoin has had multisig wallets for a long time: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature So it's not that hard to distribute several keys of the multisig to various heirs, who would have to agree on any transfers of funds. Another option is to keep each key in a different safe deposit box, with a will stating who gets access to the boxes.
    - xkjkls 5y ago
      Even with that, who do you trust to actually do any real transfer of your bitcoin in a fully secure way? Certainly not your lawyer, legal offices carry so many security problems. With a total of $1 billion at stake, there are some very real risks of attack.
      - DennisP 5y ago
        I'd educate the people who will get the money. They get access to the safe deposits, and issue the transactions. With a multisig, there's no single point of failure, and with hardware wallets there's little risk of getting hacked.
        xkjkls 5y ago
        Maybe I'm just not aware of all of the Opsec things that have been done to make Bitcoin transfer stupid simple, but I have instant goosebumps anytime someone claims they can do something in an operationally secure way, especially when 10 figures of currency are involved. At that point, you need to be training your protocol to be secure enough to survive the team from Ocean's 11 or the Russian government, not just script kiddies with too much time on their hands.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  That's not a solution, that's another layer of abstraction to try to solve the problems of blockchain/decentralization for money with a new layer of issues. Eg. The hashed list of emails. It's going to be a hard reality check if some of your "friends" don't have access to their emails anymore or just aren't friends anymore after x years. The amount he suggests is 7, which is insanely much. Even people have issues with their parents with money alone. It's a nice fantasy though, but not workable in reality.
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
I don't think anybody is stupid enough to keep $1 Billion in some wallet protected only by their private key. That would mean putting themselves in great danger.
- IMTDb 5y ago
  Or even dead at 41
- chovybizzass 5y ago
  I was infact this stupid. I lost 2.2M
- paulpauper 5y ago
  but that is how btc works. All BTC are tied to private keys.
anonporridge 5y ago
If he didn't have a backup plan in place to be accessible by his estate, then yes, the coins are dead. The coins dying with him are actually the best case scenario for all other holders. "Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." - Satoshi Nakamoto
- senectus1 5y ago
  not really sustainable though is it?
  - Alex3917 5y ago
    Completely sustainable, because coins are very highly sub-dividable.
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    The currency is deflationary but you don't have any fundamental issues until you have issues subdividing the currency, but given that the protocol supports dividing down to 0.00000001 BTC that's not a significant issue (and I'm sure the community would patch that long before it became a problem).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - meowkit 5y ago
    Bitcoins can be split down to 8 decimal places. Given the current loss/mining rate its totally possible for BTC to become difficult to operate, but its also possible for the mining cap to be removed or for coins to be split further.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      8 decimal places are already bordering insufficient: there are real world currencies whose unit costs less than 1 satoshi. See https://www.fiatmarketcap.com/ https://www.fiatmarketcap.com/
memco 5y ago
Apple is introducing a mechanism to allow access to certain data after passing: https://www.cultofmac.com/744814/apple-digital-legacy/ https://www.cultofmac.com/744814/apple-digital-legacy/. It would be great to see more tools and services provide ways to pass on digital information so we don’t have too many haunted digital graveyards not too much digital treasure lying in waste.
- dheera 5y ago
  As much as I hope nothing happens to me, I've always thought about writing a "dead man switch" piece of code that sends all my keys and passwords to a couple of trusted people if multiple signals all suggest that the unfortunate has happened. For example, all of the following must be true: * Zero Github commits in a week * Zero Facebook or Instagram posts in a week * Zero e-mail outbox messages in a week * Zero smart devices switched on/off in a week * Zero outgoing phone calls in a week etc
  - sneak 5y ago
    You can just give private keys to a bunch of people, and give a cyphertext encrypted to all of them to your attorney, to be distributed upon your death. Then you don't need complex technical triggers.
    - dheera 5y ago
      I suppose. But that means I must find an attorney first. What do they cost, like $900 an hour? ... I think that's part of what I'm trying to replace by technical means.
      - sneak 5y ago
        If you have enough cryptocurrency to worry about distributing upon your death, you have enough money to hire an attorney. (PS: they aren't $900/hour.)
        5y ago
vbezhenar 5y ago
That's one of the sources of a deflation. Bitcoin was purposely made as a deflationary currency, so it does not change anything.
makotech222 5y ago
I'm really glad we burned a billion pounds of coal for those bitcoin, which are now useless. Very cool system here.
paulpauper 5y ago
it effectively reduces the supply by .13%, which is tiny
- BrissyCoder 5y ago
  If the same thing happened to total USD in circulation that would be $104000000000 going up in flames. Seems like a lot.
booblik 5y ago
Diamond hands?

by macksd 5y ago

msslx 5y ago

social recovery wallets [1] may be a solution to this problem. [1] https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html

thegreatpeter 5y ago
But they’re not yet so 1B of Bitcoin just went bye bye
- DennisP 5y ago
  Bitcoin has had multisig wallets for a long time: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature So it's not that hard to distribute several keys of the multisig to various heirs, who would have to agree on any transfers of funds. Another option is to keep each key in a different safe deposit box, with a will stating who gets access to the boxes.
  - xkjkls 5y ago
    Even with that, who do you trust to actually do any real transfer of your bitcoin in a fully secure way? Certainly not your lawyer, legal offices carry so many security problems. With a total of $1 billion at stake, there are some very real risks of attack.
    - DennisP 5y ago
      I'd educate the people who will get the money. They get access to the safe deposits, and issue the transactions. With a multisig, there's no single point of failure, and with hardware wallets there's little risk of getting hacked.
      - xkjkls 5y ago
        Maybe I'm just not aware of all of the Opsec things that have been done to make Bitcoin transfer stupid simple, but I have instant goosebumps anytime someone claims they can do something in an operationally secure way, especially when 10 figures of currency are involved. At that point, you need to be training your protocol to be secure enough to survive the team from Ocean's 11 or the Russian government, not just script kiddies with too much time on their hands.
NicoJuicy 5y ago
That's not a solution, that's another layer of abstraction to try to solve the problems of blockchain/decentralization for money with a new layer of issues. Eg. The hashed list of emails. It's going to be a hard reality check if some of your "friends" don't have access to their emails anymore or just aren't friends anymore after x years. The amount he suggests is 7, which is insanely much. Even people have issues with their parents with money alone. It's a nice fantasy though, but not workable in reality.

mustafa_pasi 5y ago

I don't think anybody is stupid enough to keep $1 Billion in some wallet protected only by their private key. That would mean putting themselves in great danger.

IMTDb 5y ago
Or even dead at 41
chovybizzass 5y ago
I was infact this stupid. I lost 2.2M
paulpauper 5y ago
but that is how btc works. All BTC are tied to private keys.

anonporridge 5y ago

If he didn't have a backup plan in place to be accessible by his estate, then yes, the coins are dead. The coins dying with him are actually the best case scenario for all other holders. "Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone." - Satoshi Nakamoto

senectus1 5y ago
not really sustainable though is it?
- Alex3917 5y ago
  Completely sustainable, because coins are very highly sub-dividable.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  The currency is deflationary but you don't have any fundamental issues until you have issues subdividing the currency, but given that the protocol supports dividing down to 0.00000001 BTC that's not a significant issue (and I'm sure the community would patch that long before it became a problem).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- meowkit 5y ago
  Bitcoins can be split down to 8 decimal places. Given the current loss/mining rate its totally possible for BTC to become difficult to operate, but its also possible for the mining cap to be removed or for coins to be split further.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    8 decimal places are already bordering insufficient: there are real world currencies whose unit costs less than 1 satoshi. See https://www.fiatmarketcap.com/ https://www.fiatmarketcap.com/

memco 5y ago

Apple is introducing a mechanism to allow access to certain data after passing: https://www.cultofmac.com/744814/apple-digital-legacy/ https://www.cultofmac.com/744814/apple-digital-legacy/. It would be great to see more tools and services provide ways to pass on digital information so we don’t have too many haunted digital graveyards not too much digital treasure lying in waste.

dheera 5y ago
As much as I hope nothing happens to me, I've always thought about writing a "dead man switch" piece of code that sends all my keys and passwords to a couple of trusted people if multiple signals all suggest that the unfortunate has happened. For example, all of the following must be true: * Zero Github commits in a week * Zero Facebook or Instagram posts in a week * Zero e-mail outbox messages in a week * Zero smart devices switched on/off in a week * Zero outgoing phone calls in a week etc
- sneak 5y ago
  You can just give private keys to a bunch of people, and give a cyphertext encrypted to all of them to your attorney, to be distributed upon your death. Then you don't need complex technical triggers.
  - dheera 5y ago
    I suppose. But that means I must find an attorney first. What do they cost, like $900 an hour? ... I think that's part of what I'm trying to replace by technical means.
    - sneak 5y ago
      If you have enough cryptocurrency to worry about distributing upon your death, you have enough money to hire an attorney. (PS: they aren't $900/hour.)
      - 5y ago

vbezhenar 5y ago

That's one of the sources of a deflation. Bitcoin was purposely made as a deflationary currency, so it does not change anything.

makotech222 5y ago

I'm really glad we burned a billion pounds of coal for those bitcoin, which are now useless. Very cool system here.

paulpauper 5y ago

it effectively reduces the supply by .13%, which is tiny

BrissyCoder 5y ago
If the same thing happened to total USD in circulation that would be $104000000000 going up in flames. Seems like a lot.

booblik 5y ago

Diamond hands?