4 ms·

I don't really get the selective targeted hate. I don't like this move either but you need an account to use a Mac, iPhone or Android and nobody seems to fuss

I don't really get the selective targeted hate. I don't like this move either but you need an account to use a Mac, iPhone or Android and nobody seems to fuss about it. So why only target Microsoft for doing what their competitors have been doing for a along time and why not protest against Apple and Google for making this practice the norm in the first place through their monopoly in the mobile space?

Ducki 5y ago
Actually, you don't need an iCloud account to use a mac. Neither do you in order to use an iPhone.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  But you do lose a lot of functionality. Especially on the iPhone as there is no real way to add apps without it.
  - BBC-vs-neolibs 5y ago
    This is an uncelebrated (accidental) security feature. One of the most secure "burner" devices there are, is an iPhone or iPad with no iCloud configuration. Good for semi-anonymous browsing for instance, also because fingerprinting of the browser looks the same as a bunch of other iOS devices.
  - astrange 5y ago
    App Store and iCloud accounts are separate.
    - salamandersauce 5y ago
      This is a distinction with almost no difference. You're still trusting Apple with essentially same set of data.
      - astrange 5y ago
        List of installed apps vs entire content of your device backup and all your photos?
  - eddieroger 5y ago
    There's no way to add apps, but it still functions as a phone and communication device. Clearly not why someone would buy an iPhone, but it's not the same as being completely unable to progress with the system because one can't login.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  How do you do this? The initial boot makes this seem impossible.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
Nope, you don't need an account to use a Mac. You can set it up just fine without one. My Mac doesn't have any Apple ID. You can use Android without an account too. I have it set up that way on my phone, I use F-Droid and Aurora Store (in anonymous mode). I previously used MicroG which was amazing but I moved back to OxygenOS for other reasons. But even with full Play Services installed you can use them (and push notifications) without a Google account. It significantly cuts down on tracking doing that. Android pushes a Google account heavily but it's not mandatory. You can't use paid apps then but the only paid Android apps I use (Nine Email and Cryptomator) provide a way to pay them directly and sideload it, using a license key. For which I thank them! It also shows that I'm not the only one wanting this, as they clearly see value in offering this option. Only with iOS it's difficult as Apple is so difficult about sideloading. I don't use iOS as a result (except for work but only for testing). And yes I protest against these practices.
- amelius 5y ago
  > And yes I protest against these practices. How?
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Well, here... And in every other discussion where it comes up. But also directly to the vendors. I manage hundreds of Macs at work, and Apple is always pushing us to use VPP (Volume Purchase Program). However, most of the apps we need are not in their store at all, so there is no point. And their 'federated' accounts don't work for us due to arbitrary limitations on Apple's side (Specifically: The UPN must be equal to email). I really don't want every user creating their own account which we don't manage. It's messy for support and the latest Macs lock themselves to the user's account so we can't recover it when it's returned (Activation lock). Also, because all those accounts have to be manually cleaned up if we ever do move to federated accounts. So I've set everything up to not use Apple accounts at all. So yes my objections have been made clear to Apple. And this is on the work side even, in my personal scope I'm even more against this.
    - 5y ago
yakubin 5y ago
You don't need an account to use a Mac or iPhone. You need an account to use App Store (duh), but you don't need to use the App Store, especially on Mac, where applications are mainly installed without using the App Store.
cm2187 5y ago
I am equally annoyed by all of Apple’s dark patterns. Every time I update iOS I know I will have to go through a dozen of modals nagging me for Apple services. Android and iOS are in a race to the bottom in term of user experience and privacy invasion. Should I be happy that microsoft is keen to join them?
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  I just don't see these "intrusions" when I upgrade iOS. What are you referring to?
  - cm2187 5y ago
    Setup icloud, setup apple wallet, setup apple music service, etc. And then I am getting nagged again regularly for apple music service when playing my mp3s.
    - ubermonkey 5y ago
      Well, maybe so. I use those things because they work really well for me, so I don't see those ads at all. I suppose one could avoid ads for AM by using some other music player, though.
pessimizer 5y ago
This thread is about Microsoft. If you want to complain about Microsoft getting unfair treatment, you should have to find a single comment in this thread that defends similar behavior by Apple or Google first.
heresie-dabord 5y ago
I suppose people -- Windows users in particular -- expected Microsoft to be different.

Ducki 5y ago

Actually, you don't need an iCloud account to use a mac. Neither do you in order to use an iPhone.

salamandersauce 5y ago
But you do lose a lot of functionality. Especially on the iPhone as there is no real way to add apps without it.
- BBC-vs-neolibs 5y ago
  This is an uncelebrated (accidental) security feature. One of the most secure "burner" devices there are, is an iPhone or iPad with no iCloud configuration. Good for semi-anonymous browsing for instance, also because fingerprinting of the browser looks the same as a bunch of other iOS devices.
- astrange 5y ago
  App Store and iCloud accounts are separate.
  - salamandersauce 5y ago
    This is a distinction with almost no difference. You're still trusting Apple with essentially same set of data.
    - astrange 5y ago
      List of installed apps vs entire content of your device backup and all your photos?
- eddieroger 5y ago
  There's no way to add apps, but it still functions as a phone and communication device. Clearly not why someone would buy an iPhone, but it's not the same as being completely unable to progress with the system because one can't login.
deregulateMed 5y ago
How do you do this? The initial boot makes this seem impossible.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

Nope, you don't need an account to use a Mac. You can set it up just fine without one. My Mac doesn't have any Apple ID. You can use Android without an account too. I have it set up that way on my phone, I use F-Droid and Aurora Store (in anonymous mode). I previously used MicroG which was amazing but I moved back to OxygenOS for other reasons. But even with full Play Services installed you can use them (and push notifications) without a Google account. It significantly cuts down on tracking doing that. Android pushes a Google account heavily but it's not mandatory. You can't use paid apps then but the only paid Android apps I use (Nine Email and Cryptomator) provide a way to pay them directly and sideload it, using a license key. For which I thank them! It also shows that I'm not the only one wanting this, as they clearly see value in offering this option. Only with iOS it's difficult as Apple is so difficult about sideloading. I don't use iOS as a result (except for work but only for testing). And yes I protest against these practices.

amelius 5y ago
> And yes I protest against these practices. How?
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Well, here... And in every other discussion where it comes up. But also directly to the vendors. I manage hundreds of Macs at work, and Apple is always pushing us to use VPP (Volume Purchase Program). However, most of the apps we need are not in their store at all, so there is no point. And their 'federated' accounts don't work for us due to arbitrary limitations on Apple's side (Specifically: The UPN must be equal to email). I really don't want every user creating their own account which we don't manage. It's messy for support and the latest Macs lock themselves to the user's account so we can't recover it when it's returned (Activation lock). Also, because all those accounts have to be manually cleaned up if we ever do move to federated accounts. So I've set everything up to not use Apple accounts at all. So yes my objections have been made clear to Apple. And this is on the work side even, in my personal scope I'm even more against this.
  - 5y ago

yakubin 5y ago

You don't need an account to use a Mac or iPhone. You need an account to use App Store (duh), but you don't need to use the App Store, especially on Mac, where applications are mainly installed without using the App Store.

cm2187 5y ago

I am equally annoyed by all of Apple’s dark patterns. Every time I update iOS I know I will have to go through a dozen of modals nagging me for Apple services. Android and iOS are in a race to the bottom in term of user experience and privacy invasion. Should I be happy that microsoft is keen to join them?

ubermonkey 5y ago
I just don't see these "intrusions" when I upgrade iOS. What are you referring to?
- cm2187 5y ago
  Setup icloud, setup apple wallet, setup apple music service, etc. And then I am getting nagged again regularly for apple music service when playing my mp3s.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    Well, maybe so. I use those things because they work really well for me, so I don't see those ads at all. I suppose one could avoid ads for AM by using some other music player, though.

pessimizer 5y ago

This thread is about Microsoft. If you want to complain about Microsoft getting unfair treatment, you should have to find a single comment in this thread that defends similar behavior by Apple or Google first.

heresie-dabord 5y ago

I suppose people -- Windows users in particular -- expected Microsoft to be different.