7 ms·

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

numpad0 5y ago
“There’s this cheap stuff for non-customers, go figure” I think I’ve seen a eerily similar remark on Xbox 360 when XB1 launched so… is that a part of Microsoft ethos? That time the guy said that was instantly cancelled though.
eric__cartman 5y ago
Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB of memory and an SSD. I'm not a big fan of generating unnecessary waste, and computers that get replaced because of artificial cutoff points in software isn't ideal. What I like about Windows 10 is that you can boot the installer on a Core2Duo if you want, and it'll install just fine. It'll probably run like crap, but that's for the user to decide whether they want to use it or not.
- vetinari 5y ago
  I have (a secondary) Thinkpad T430s, which is going to be 9 years old later this year. Since it is i7, with 16 GB RAM and 500 GB SSD, it is still a better computer than a median laptop sold today.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    I have an old 2012 Asus G75VS gaming laptop with Core i7 upgraded to SSD and 32GB RAM. It works like a charm and beats modern cheap laptops to submission as well. However I do not really care if it can be upgraded to Windows 11. It runs few particular applications, is air gapped and will stay this way until it dies in order not to get some unwanted update/upgrade. But if it was something like my spare development laptop I'd surely be pissed off at Microsoft. The way this laptop runs
- dunnevens 5y ago
  One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machines didn't get the Android compatibility layer or if certain desktop animations were disabled, but seems odd to just block them entirely.
  - chasil 5y ago
    Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requires-a-tpm-for-your-pc.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...
    - dunnevens 5y ago
      I guess that's part of the problem. No one outside of Microsoft is sure. The uncertainty has completely overshadowed the launch. One minute, they're talking about "soft floors", and the next they're saying it will refuse to install. Makes me wonder if a power struggle is going on. You'd think they would have a coherent message put together before launch. Recommended system requirements + minimum system requirements, and the justifications for both. That's what's expected from any major software launch.
      - k12sosse 5y ago
        The ol' fishing for outrage. Let's just toss this out there and see what bites. "We'll adjust our strategy based on what we hear." Kinda wonder, how much of this is "we asked and never got a legit response" vs. "haHAA, gotcha bitch! NOW THATS MEANINGFUL FEEDBACK!"
- numpad0 5y ago
  i7-2700K is not just usable, it’s faster than Pentium G5600(8th Gen) and on par with i3-8100(8th Gen) in most benchmarks without overclocking.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  i5-2500 with 8GB-16GB RAM (hooray for upgradable RAM) even with is integrated graphics still is winning platform for all important non-gaming consumer applications.
  - foolfoolz 5y ago
    i bought an i5-2500k in 2011 and it runs games and everything else very well. this is the fastest “10 year old computer” i’ve ever had
    - lupire 5y ago
      Yep on games if you have a discrete GPU.
- williadc 5y ago
  To strengthen rather than diminish your argument, the I7 2700K is over 9.5 years old. Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/intel-core-i7-2700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/i...
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    I run a i5-2500 and still game on it via VFIO (that is, in a VM) and I can't complain about the performance. Sure, the GPU is new-ish (GTX 1070) and I don't play bleeding edge titles, but I can play everything at nearly max settings.
  - layer8 5y ago
    Still using an i7-2600 as my main workstation at work, since 2012.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      Ditto. I had a 2600k until about a month ago, where my motherboard died and everyone on eBay was asking $100+ for a replacement. Ended up buying a whole Ryzen gaming rig and selling off the parts I didn't want. Out of pocket costs were actually negative when once the old PC's parts were gone.
  - SECProto 5y ago
    Was coming to respond the same thing. I used a processor from the same generation (2500k) from May 2011 to May 2021, including for gaming. Upgraded to an SSD at some point and the video card, but the processor was still fine. I would've kept it another couple years but I was having some issues (I think a ram stick had gone bad) and the easiest solution was $500 canadian for a new processor (10400F), motherboard, and ram I'd take the argument farther - I suspect the hypothetical 2015 computer referenced would be fine for most users (with non-processor upgrades) until 2030.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    To strengthen it further, the 2700k is just a refresh of the more popular 2600k, which came out in Q1 2011 (same as the even more popular 2500k). If you want to go back further, the Q6600 came out in Q1 2007 and still offers a great W10 experience when paired with an SSD.
- sjg007 5y ago
  I’ve got a black MacBook 4G duo that seems pretty good still. It’s dated in the UI and the lcd is garbage but with an external mouse and keyboard it might be ok. I’d like to keep OSX on it but Linux would be fine or windows.
- gambiting 5y ago
  Exactly. I have a both of these actually lol. Old HP Compaq 8200 that I use as a NAS, media server and to host an occasional Linux VM, with an i5-2400. Running Windows 10 it receives all important security updates and runs absolutely fine, despite being 10 years old. I have plans to replace it by 2025, because.....why would I? It doesn't need any more power to do any of these jobs that I mentioned. And I actually have a Core2Duo laptop running Windows 10, with an SSD and 8GB of ram it runs "ok". Not amazing or anything, but fast enough to basically work as a browsing/YouTube machine.
vetinari 5y ago
First-gen Ryzens and Threadrippers, while they do support fTPM, are not supported in W11 and they won't be 10 years old in 2025.
- snuxoll 5y ago
  This really gets me - my Ryzen 5 1600X and my wife’s Ryzen 5 2600 are still extremely capable chips, even if they’re a couple of generations old at this point. It’s only been 3 years since I built my rig, and two since I built my wife’s. I can almost accept the i5-4570 my daughter inherited not being compatible - but hardware just over 3 years old not making the cut is unacceptable.
  - MikusR 5y ago
    That i5-4570 is at least twice (single thread) as fast as some supported cpus.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.
- userbinator 5y ago
  Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on their daily use. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the norm, not "What's the latest and newest? I must have it!"
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :) And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.
    - Daishiman 5y ago
      Even the most die-had MS user is not excited about Windows and hasn't been for the last decade. Operating systems are finished products at this point.
      - supernovae 5y ago
        People say this all the time, but it certainly isn't true. I for one, I am excited about Windows 11 because its finally things coming together. 64bit only, dropping old cruft, making the UI consistent/cleaner.. If you like tech/gaming - there is a lot to be excited about. PC and Console gaming with Game pass ultimate is a hell of a deal... Plus WSLg, Android apps ... i mean come on, its pretty f'n cool.
contravariant 5y ago
I've got a 10 year old PC right now using decent but not amazingly high end hardware (at the time), other than a slightly limited memory capacity it's still on par with my current (mid/high-end-ish) laptop.
overgard 5y ago
I'm still using a 2013 Macbook Pro (dual boot), and honestly, I could see that being useful for another 8 years. I won't be playing games on it, but it has enough GPU to render High DPI screens just fine. (Granted I feel no urge to upgrade to windows 11 either, so I'm pretty fine leaving it on windows 10 for the next few years.)
- supernovae 5y ago
  MacOS Monterey is dropping support for the 2013 Macbook Pros... Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 so that is a hell of a run tho!
thrower123 5y ago
I only just retired a machine I built in 2011, with 2009-era parts. CPU advances have not been impressive over the last decade or so.
mulmen 5y ago
Just checked Newegg. I built my current PC in November of 2010. It has a Core 2 Quad. Runs great.
michaelmrose 5y ago
They require an 8th generation Intel CPU. Intel was still taking orders from oems for said CPUs until April 2020 and there are computers sold new in box today that won't be supported.

numpad0 5y ago

“There’s this cheap stuff for non-customers, go figure” I think I’ve seen a eerily similar remark on Xbox 360 when XB1 launched so… is that a part of Microsoft ethos? That time the guy said that was instantly cancelled though.

eric__cartman 5y ago

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB of memory and an SSD. I'm not a big fan of generating unnecessary waste, and computers that get replaced because of artificial cutoff points in software isn't ideal. What I like about Windows 10 is that you can boot the installer on a Core2Duo if you want, and it'll install just fine. It'll probably run like crap, but that's for the user to decide whether they want to use it or not.

vetinari 5y ago
I have (a secondary) Thinkpad T430s, which is going to be 9 years old later this year. Since it is i7, with 16 GB RAM and 500 GB SSD, it is still a better computer than a median laptop sold today.
- FpUser 5y ago
  I have an old 2012 Asus G75VS gaming laptop with Core i7 upgraded to SSD and 32GB RAM. It works like a charm and beats modern cheap laptops to submission as well. However I do not really care if it can be upgraded to Windows 11. It runs few particular applications, is air gapped and will stay this way until it dies in order not to get some unwanted update/upgrade. But if it was something like my spare development laptop I'd surely be pissed off at Microsoft. The way this laptop runs
dunnevens 5y ago
One of the ironies of this situation is that Windows 11 does well on the Core2Duos. At least the ones with 8 gigs / SSD, based on what I've seen people post online. I've seen people claim the 11 leak is performing better than 10, and 10 was running decently well on the C2D's. They did the work to make it even faster on older hardware, and now they're just going to throw it away? I could understand if the older machines didn't get the Android compatibility layer or if certain desktop animations were disabled, but seems odd to just block them entirely.
- chasil 5y ago
  Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requires-a-tpm-for-your-pc.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...
  - dunnevens 5y ago
    I guess that's part of the problem. No one outside of Microsoft is sure. The uncertainty has completely overshadowed the launch. One minute, they're talking about "soft floors", and the next they're saying it will refuse to install. Makes me wonder if a power struggle is going on. You'd think they would have a coherent message put together before launch. Recommended system requirements + minimum system requirements, and the justifications for both. That's what's expected from any major software launch.
    - k12sosse 5y ago
      The ol' fishing for outrage. Let's just toss this out there and see what bites. "We'll adjust our strategy based on what we hear." Kinda wonder, how much of this is "we asked and never got a legit response" vs. "haHAA, gotcha bitch! NOW THATS MEANINGFUL FEEDBACK!"
numpad0 5y ago
i7-2700K is not just usable, it’s faster than Pentium G5600(8th Gen) and on par with i3-8100(8th Gen) in most benchmarks without overclocking.
alisonkisk 5y ago
i5-2500 with 8GB-16GB RAM (hooray for upgradable RAM) even with is integrated graphics still is winning platform for all important non-gaming consumer applications.
- foolfoolz 5y ago
  i bought an i5-2500k in 2011 and it runs games and everything else very well. this is the fastest “10 year old computer” i’ve ever had
  - lupire 5y ago
    Yep on games if you have a discrete GPU.
williadc 5y ago
To strengthen rather than diminish your argument, the I7 2700K is over 9.5 years old. Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/intel-core-i7-2700k-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/i...
- Sebb767 5y ago
  I run a i5-2500 and still game on it via VFIO (that is, in a VM) and I can't complain about the performance. Sure, the GPU is new-ish (GTX 1070) and I don't play bleeding edge titles, but I can play everything at nearly max settings.
- layer8 5y ago
  Still using an i7-2600 as my main workstation at work, since 2012.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    Ditto. I had a 2600k until about a month ago, where my motherboard died and everyone on eBay was asking $100+ for a replacement. Ended up buying a whole Ryzen gaming rig and selling off the parts I didn't want. Out of pocket costs were actually negative when once the old PC's parts were gone.
- SECProto 5y ago
  Was coming to respond the same thing. I used a processor from the same generation (2500k) from May 2011 to May 2021, including for gaming. Upgraded to an SSD at some point and the video card, but the processor was still fine. I would've kept it another couple years but I was having some issues (I think a ram stick had gone bad) and the easiest solution was $500 canadian for a new processor (10400F), motherboard, and ram I'd take the argument farther - I suspect the hypothetical 2015 computer referenced would be fine for most users (with non-processor upgrades) until 2030.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  To strengthen it further, the 2700k is just a refresh of the more popular 2600k, which came out in Q1 2011 (same as the even more popular 2500k). If you want to go back further, the Q6600 came out in Q1 2007 and still offers a great W10 experience when paired with an SSD.
sjg007 5y ago
I’ve got a black MacBook 4G duo that seems pretty good still. It’s dated in the UI and the lcd is garbage but with an external mouse and keyboard it might be ok. I’d like to keep OSX on it but Linux would be fine or windows.
gambiting 5y ago
Exactly. I have a both of these actually lol. Old HP Compaq 8200 that I use as a NAS, media server and to host an occasional Linux VM, with an i5-2400. Running Windows 10 it receives all important security updates and runs absolutely fine, despite being 10 years old. I have plans to replace it by 2025, because.....why would I? It doesn't need any more power to do any of these jobs that I mentioned. And I actually have a Core2Duo laptop running Windows 10, with an SSD and 8GB of ram it runs "ok". Not amazing or anything, but fast enough to basically work as a browsing/YouTube machine.

vetinari 5y ago

First-gen Ryzens and Threadrippers, while they do support fTPM, are not supported in W11 and they won't be 10 years old in 2025.

snuxoll 5y ago
This really gets me - my Ryzen 5 1600X and my wife’s Ryzen 5 2600 are still extremely capable chips, even if they’re a couple of generations old at this point. It’s only been 3 years since I built my rig, and two since I built my wife’s. I can almost accept the i5-4570 my daughter inherited not being compatible - but hardware just over 3 years old not making the cut is unacceptable.
- MikusR 5y ago
  That i5-4570 is at least twice (single thread) as fast as some supported cpus.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.

userbinator 5y ago
Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on their daily use. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the norm, not "What's the latest and newest? I must have it!"
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :) And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    Even the most die-had MS user is not excited about Windows and hasn't been for the last decade. Operating systems are finished products at this point.
    - supernovae 5y ago
      People say this all the time, but it certainly isn't true. I for one, I am excited about Windows 11 because its finally things coming together. 64bit only, dropping old cruft, making the UI consistent/cleaner.. If you like tech/gaming - there is a lot to be excited about. PC and Console gaming with Game pass ultimate is a hell of a deal... Plus WSLg, Android apps ... i mean come on, its pretty f'n cool.

contravariant 5y ago

I've got a 10 year old PC right now using decent but not amazingly high end hardware (at the time), other than a slightly limited memory capacity it's still on par with my current (mid/high-end-ish) laptop.

overgard 5y ago

I'm still using a 2013 Macbook Pro (dual boot), and honestly, I could see that being useful for another 8 years. I won't be playing games on it, but it has enough GPU to render High DPI screens just fine. (Granted I feel no urge to upgrade to windows 11 either, so I'm pretty fine leaving it on windows 10 for the next few years.)

supernovae 5y ago
MacOS Monterey is dropping support for the 2013 Macbook Pros... Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 so that is a hell of a run tho!

thrower123 5y ago

I only just retired a machine I built in 2011, with 2009-era parts. CPU advances have not been impressive over the last decade or so.

mulmen 5y ago

Just checked Newegg. I built my current PC in November of 2010. It has a Core 2 Quad. Runs great.

michaelmrose 5y ago

They require an 8th generation Intel CPU. Intel was still taking orders from oems for said CPUs until April 2020 and there are computers sold new in box today that won't be supported.