18 ms·

Binance banned from doing business in UK

300 points by Osiris30 5y ago

celticninja 5y ago
Banned from setting up a UK specific exchange and not allowed to undertake regulated activities such as lending. This in no way affects the existing Binance exchange or the ability of UK users to use Binance.
- lugged 5y ago
  I pulled my funds from binance, writings on the wall.
  - wpietri 5y ago
    Yup. Regulators have given cryptocurrency companies a surprisingly long leash. But at least in the US, that's changing for sure.
  - Animats 5y ago
    Well, as large amounts of funds are pulled from Binance, we will find out if they've been stealing. A good regulatory step for the US would be to require that it can't be harder to withdraw than to deposit. Any ID requirements have to be completed before depositing, not withdrawing. And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2. Same rules as regular brokers.
    - wyldfire 5y ago
      > And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2. I've never seen this notation before. Does it refer to blocks, hours, or (gasp!) days?
      - jcranmer 5y ago
        Given the typical settlement time of financial systems, I would assume it's days.
      - Animats 5y ago
        Trade day plus 2 business days.[1] This is the standard in the securities industry for most transaction settlements. Not paying on time is called a "fail". There are penalties. For US stockbrokers, FINRA enforces them. In the real world, a broker failing to pay out cash on time to multiple customers is a Big Deal. Alerts come up on Bloomberg terminals. It's headline news. Institutional investors stop sending trades to that broker and start demanding collateral. The SEC, FINRA, NASDAQ, NYSE, the Fed, and other become involved. See the collapse of Bear Sterns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B2
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        Completely dumb and enabling of high finance scams. Instant settlement means nobody can play games. It fixes this. Embrace this.
        Animats 5y ago
        Some delay is useful in catching scams. See [1]. But not much delay. 2 days is a useful compromise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        You have to catch them before settlement — that is the only logical and safe way. Any delay just lets the supposed holder mess about with stealing from one to pay another. If you act like every action is permanent, irrevocable… you conduct your life with care. It’s a radical deviation from the fun and games occurring today.
        xeromal 5y ago
        Not sure what the sentence means
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      The reality is they don’t need to. Pegged tokens are the ultimate way to fractional reserve. See tether. Plenty of binance pegged tokens to handle any loss. Best thing is when binance has to buy themselves whole, they just just burn the tokens on their chain. Genius. Not your keys, not your coins. Also that t+2 thing is just allowing shenanigans. When Rh forces the industry into instant settlement next year (hope!!) we will see who is truly been playing funny money. Looking at you citadel.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    When you pull funds how do you transfer them out? As fiat or Bitcoin or tether or?
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      Stablecoin would work, BTC or ETH would work. It's not that hard.
    - sbierwagen 5y ago
      If the UK makes it hard to trade bitcoin, you can also guess that the value of bitcoin denominated in GBP will go down dramatically. You probably don't want to be holding tether in that case.
      - jimmydorry 5y ago
        In my experience, it's typically been the opposite. Countries with harsher capital controls / make it harder to use Bitcoin, attract a premium in the purchase / sale of Bitcoin. South Africa for example has very strict capital controls, hence the price to buy or sell Bitcoin is higher than elsewhere. The catch is that you can't easily move fiat out of the South African economy, which makes abritrage, to take advantage of this imbalance, impossible.
        sbierwagen 5y ago
        The UK does not have South African capital controls. Unless it's for proceeds of criminal activities, in which case you don't really want to enter every transaction in a global immutable ledger!
      - celticninja 5y ago
        It hasn't done that and it is unlikely that they will. There are UK based exchanges, the issue here is with binance specifically and not cryptocurrencies in general.
- mgamache 5y ago
  "The U.K.’s Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has ordered crypto exchange Binance to stop undertaking any regulated activity in the country. But since the exchange pulled its application for the FCA's crypto-assets register, it will be unable to offer services that previously counted as unregulated — such as spot trading — either." https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109766/uk-fca-bans-crypto-exchange-binance https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109766/uk-fca-bans-crypt...
  - nebulous1 5y ago
    Looks like they actually altered that part. It now reads. "Since Binance pulled its application, that means the exchange can no longer provide services that were previously unregistered either, such as spot trading" It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance can or can't do at the moment.
    - spottybanana 5y ago
      > It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance can or can't do at the moment. I'm sure also Binance and the FCA aren't sure about that. The regulatory uncertainty in this space is huge. Even after this statement it is very unclear if there are any effective sanctions FCA can enforce on Binance if they continue doing whatever they are doing. Or they might just stop advertising, and start some stealth advertising campaigns after an year os so.
- agilob 5y ago
  but does that mean Binance will stop reporting accounts with trades for over £5k to HMRC?
joemazerino 5y ago
Is there anyone with experience using Binance from a banned or restricted zone? Was your crypto frozen?
- vageli 5y ago
  As a US user, I've accessed my old account via VPN to remove funds a couple months ago without issue. I was unable to access binance without VPN though (the original binance not the US specific new one).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
toomuchtodo 5y ago
Also booted from Ontario, Canada. https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/o80yxs/binance_banned_in_ontario/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/o80yxs/bina... https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ba03469c86f34546bd25faf414730733# https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ba03469c86f3...
- neom 5y ago
  I got a message from newton.co about doing a bunch of KYC compliance(they're Canada only), presume Canada Gov generally is starting to wrap its arms around crypto?
overtonwhy 5y ago
"Binance has until Wednesday evening to confirm that it has removed all advertising and financial promotions, according to the FCA’s register. The exchange must also make clear on its website, social media channels and all other communications that it is no longer permitted to operate in the U.K." "Binance is being probed by several agencies in the U.S., Bloomberg News reported in recent months. And Japan’s Financial Services Agency issued a warning against Binance recently, saying it offered crypto services without registration."
throwaway77384 5y ago
I kept my funds on Binance for a while, for convenience's sake. However, the old rule applies: not your keys, not your crypto. Keeping anything on an exchange, for the time being, is just too risky. This is another example of it. Governments are still trying to figure out how to regulate crypto, ever shifting the amount of hurdles between crypto and the world of fiat. I'd advise to pull funds if possible. I've recently done so with mine. Of course that means my keys / wallets are now my responsibility, along with ensuring that I have appropriate backups in place etc.
- rchaud 5y ago
  Is there an ELI5 guide to keeping coins secure when they're off-exchange? I heard terms like 'cold wallet', 'cold storage', but surely there's work that goes into creating a secure USB stick?
  - mrgordon 5y ago
    In the extreme case people will set up a paper wallet using a computer that’s disconnected from the internet. Once they have the keys, they can typically keep them non-digitally and transfer coins to that address as safe cold storage
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    Consider a hardware wallet like Ledger or Trezor, both are pretty easy to use and have extensive documentation. I'm sure there are OSS/hardware solutions you can roll yourself, too.
  - rawtxapp 5y ago
    You can buy something like Ledger Nano which is a hardware wallet. Essentially, the private keys never leave the device, you can instead just sign messages directly with it. You can also have normal software wallets (don't recommend it for larger amounts) or paper wallets.
  - jasdine817 5y ago
    I just used a tool called BIP39 generator on and offline machine which you can feed entropy and it will generate a bitcoin private key. then sent funds to that address. Then just keep those details safe.
nikolay 5y ago
Can we end these scams already?!
- exdsq 5y ago
  How is binance a scam?
  - brighton36 5y ago
    I think the op addresses this... These are unlicensed securities.
  - zdyn5 5y ago
    Half of HN thinks anything crypto-related is automatically a scam.
  - bronzeage 5y ago
    They are cooperating with the Tether scam, so they are a scam too.
  - tomytosian 5y ago
    it is a clear scam. the pattern is exactly the same than 2017 pump and dumb and bans
yawaworht1978 5y ago
Yesterday most of Canada, today Uk. Crypto adoption, but I reverse chronological order./s What is the US waiting for? Can't be long now.
- mgbmtl 5y ago
  Most of Canada? I only noticed Ontario. Are there other provinces?
  - notatoad 5y ago
    that's just how ontario thinks.
- zarzavat 5y ago
  Exchanges are commodities, people can just move to another one. Hinderances in the way of shady exchanges can only make the market healthier by pushing funds towards more trustworthy exchanges.
kgraves 5y ago
Good. This is welcome and excellent news, I hope more regulators follow suit of this to more unregulated exchanges in the future. Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters. I would go as so far as to banning them all.
- zdyn5 5y ago
  “Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters.” Source?
  - chrononaut 5y ago
    Not OP, but I have also been curious of the popularity of the actual set of transactions that serve utility and result, or facilitate, an exchange between two actors where one of them is providing something tangible (i.e, transactions other than acquiring cryptocurrency to hold, and then exiting back to fiat after some period of it). Obviously this will be difficult to actually know, for reasons that it's "hard to trace" but also most studies are likely biased in one direction (for the concept of cryptocurrency) or the other (against the concept of cryptocurrency). My intuition tells me that most transactions (at least in absolute fiat dollars) that result in an exchange of tangible assets are largely illicit transactions that would otherwise be frowned upon the individual's place of residence (e.g., ransomware, drugs, money laundering), but I don't know how that compares to other forms like standard retail services, local inflation hedging, or overseas transfers. The former group (in particular ransomware) is certainly enabled significantly more due to the existence of cryptocurrency however.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - kgraves 5y ago
    Why is this coin 'Monero' being used by these fraudsters and criminals to hide their activity? [0] The fact that this is making ransomware run rampant and now the victim is also part of the unfortunate process of paying the ransom in Bitcoin, (and now apparently they can also pay in Monero at the hackers, 'convenience')[1] it's getting to a point where regulators need to step in before this happens to more companies and the general public. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc40d8b6 https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc40d... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-cryptocurrency-of-choice-for-cyber-criminals.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-cryptocur...
Shosty123 5y ago
I moved my funds from Binance shortly after their CFO jumped ship. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
readyoubestbook 5y ago
I have my crypto in Binance, any tips on how to move it away from there?
- plondon514 5y ago
  Create a blockchain.com wallet
  - 3np 5y ago
    This is terrible advice. There are much better options even if you do want a custodial wallet.
- eingaeKaiy8ujie 5y ago
  Send it to your address?
- puranjay 5y ago
  Create a Metamask account and send your crypto to your address. Works with all ERC-20 tokens
- mr_sturd 5y ago
  I've stuck with Electrum for Bitcoin, and MetaMask for Ethereum/ERC20 tokens. With both, make sure to save the generated seed phrases, and use a strong password to lock the wallets.
- 3np 5y ago
  Create your own non-custodial wallet. Ideally keys would be generated either on an airgapped computer, or on a hardware wallet (e.g. Ledger). For non-significant amounts that you want to be able to use in the go, you can choose to additionally have a hot wallet (others have already mentioned MetaMask for ETH-based, for example). If you do not want to go the extra mile and want convenience, and have an iPhone, personally I think an iOS-based wallet is a more secure choice than having it on your desktop or Android device. Save your BIP39 seed phrase offline (paper for example). Protect it with a pass phrase. If you want extra protection on the passphrase, there are solutions to “split” it using Shamir’s scheme to for example 2-out-of-3 and store the parts on different locations. (Definitely run this on an offline device, for example on a laptop booted from a live USB key) Either way I advise against fully custodial wallets such as blockchain.com or crypto.com (commonsly recommended but not your keys not your coins).
rabf 5y ago
"The ban, said an FCA spokesperson, only applies to Binance's English incorporation, Binance Markets Limited, which Binance has not registered with the FCA (despite plans to do so). The spokesperson clarified that "UK consumers can continue to interact" with Binance Group, the wider, international collection of Binance companies that maintains no official headquarters. That means that Binance's customers in the UK can trade on Binance as normal—nothing changes."
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
topicseed 5y ago
From my understanding, this ban applies to regulated activities such as trading some specific securities, as well as options, contracts, and the likes. From the FCA's website[0]: > While we don’t regulate cryptoassets like Bitcoin or Ether, we do regulate certain cryptoasset derivatives (such as futures contracts, contracts for difference and options), as well as those cryptoassets we would consider ‘securities’ – find out more information. A firm must be authorised by us to advertise or sell these products in the UK [0] https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/consumer-warning-binance-markets-limited-and-binance-group https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/consumer-warning-bi...
mirekrusin 5y ago
Funnily enough the reason seems to be poor money laundering measures. I always thought exchanges are the only money laundering gates where govt can have control.
- berkes 5y ago
  Which is why you see governments pushing against exchanges with poor money laundering measures. Like here.
ArkanExplorer 5y ago
Its great to see Governments finally acting against Crypto. The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned. This will indirectly disable Ransomware, since businesses will not be able to purchase the coins. And by reducing the price of coins, reduce the waste (electricity, hardware, human effort) associated with 'mining' them.
- jMyles 5y ago
  This perspective is just so alien to me. I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Moreover, your predictions seem completely bombastic to me. Has there ever been a case where governments banned something and the resulting black market settled at a cheaper equilibrium? I can't think of one.
  - ArkanExplorer 5y ago
    The State can be replaced democratically. Crypto is full of pump and dump and exit scams. Bitcoin et al are also algorithmically supply inelastic. As demand for the coins decreases (due to the inability to actually buy them), the price will decline. This is basic supply and demand economics.
    - Shosty123 5y ago
      "The State can be replaced democratically." Tell that to my friend who had his family's fortune wiped out in Argentina twice due to government seizure and hyperinflation before fleeing the country. Are these people just supposed to just take it on the chin for generations until their governments/societies stabilize? I don't know how anyone can see no value in a medium of exchange outside of government currency controls.
    - newfriend 5y ago
      The State is forced upon you. Crypto is opt-in. If you think it's a pump and dump, then just don't participate. Stop forcing people to do what you want, stop banning things you don't like. Leave me alone.
hermitsings 5y ago
Won't be surprised if India goes this way as well.
- puranjay 5y ago
  Yeah, on-off ramps might be hard in India very soon. The RBI has no fondness for crypto. Don’t think a ban is coming but I do think we will have to rely on P2P to on/off ramp - not a great solution when large sums of money are involved.
LatteLazy 5y ago
Anti money laundering is (rightly or wrongly) pretty incompatible with crypto. The question "where did these funds come from" is something no one using crypto can really answer honestly and it's the core question in AML. I like crypto. I like defacto drug decriminalisation and sanctions busting. But it was never gonna make it past AML.
- spottybanana 5y ago
  What? I have used BTC for years and never had problem answering that honestly. I would argue the opposite, most BTC users are very straightforward investors, they bought BTC, maybe bought something with it along the years, then held the rest, then when the value went up sold some. Maybe the ones who have something shady going on are just the noisiest?
  - LatteLazy 5y ago
    The issue is a buy and hold investor will get $5k and sit on it. Another user sells $5k's worth every month because he's a small drug dealer. That second user is 1000x more revenue for the exchange because he trades every month. But you can't do business with him unless he tells you exactly what he's doing and who he is and gives you evidence he's getting those bitcoin from legitimate sources. Which he is not. So he really can't do any of that... You get the same thing in most exchanges: a few percent of users are 80% of revenue. And that's true even when there is no "secondary market" which can only make it worse.
  - puranjay 5y ago
    Its become a whole lot more complicated with DeFi. You might have made your profits from yield farming, lending, airdrops, etc. Its not simply a matter of “bought low, sold high”.
- diamond559 5y ago
  There's a protocol on Ethereum called Aave providing lending/borrowing to banks/institutional investors in separate permissioned pools that comply with AML and kyc regulations.
wyldfire 5y ago
I've always believed in the strength and independence of Bitcoin and cryptocoins. But maybe there's just so many evil-doers/criminals out there that the novel trust free payment network will crumble under the weight of all of the adjacent scams. I hope not, but I find myself in the truly puzzling position of rooting for the regulators sometimes. I can easily partition bitcoin's good qualities from all of the bad things that people do with/for them. But I don't think most people will do that. At the same time, in some ways it's nearly indestructible. So even if it's unpopular it will at the very least continue to serve the black market.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  The bad people don't disappear when you create gatekeepers. Their power multiplies exponentially, as they use the regulatory process to suppress competition and hold the consumer captive. Theory would suggest that in a free market, people who act maliciously, and fail to build a positive reputation, would steadily be abandoned for those who act benevolently, and succeed in building a positive reputation. This would be a corrective feedback mechanism which steadily makes the social configuration less exploitive, and I think one could reasonably assume it is a far less failure-prone feedback mechanism than periodic political elections. Beyond the theoretical arguments, the empirical evidence suggests this is what happens. For example, countries with lower levels of government spending as a percentage of GDP have on average higher rates of economic development. For a more relevant example, the quality of project needed for a token sale to be successful massively rose between 2015, when the first token sale was announced, and late 2017, when the SEC shut down token sales. The market was evolving, while massively expanding the number of people participating in early-stage investing: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11408-020-00366-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11408-020-00366-0 >"The average ICO has almost 4700 contributors. The median contributor invests a relatively small amount. The ICO market appears to have successfully given access to the financing of innovation to a new class of investors, which is a long-standing public policy issue"
  - tobltobs 5y ago
    "For example, countries with lower levels of government spending as a percentage of GDP having on average higher rates of economic development." Any citation for that?
nivenkos 5y ago
Great news, now just ban all the fiat-crypto exchanges.
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.is/gH3Ls https://archive.is/gH3Ls
deeceejhay 5y ago
Also getting pressure from Japan: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/japans-fsa-warns-against-crypto-exchange-giant-binance/ https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/japans-f...
- digianarchist 5y ago
  Shut shop in Ontario: https://www.coindesk.com/binance-pulls-out-of-ontario-following-actions-against-other-crypto-exchanges https://www.coindesk.com/binance-pulls-out-of-ontario-follow...
lvs 5y ago
The title of this thread is wrong and doesn't match the headline. The regulator acted against Binance Markets, which is a separate legal entity.
fukd 5y ago
booooooooooom
avvt4avaw 5y ago
I thought it was worth clarifying exactly what has happened here, since neither the BBC nor the FT articles make it particularly clear. The entity that the FCA has acted against is Binance Markets Limited (BML) which Binance acquired earlier this year, in part because of its existing registration with the FCA which allowed it to carry out a limited range of regulated activities in the UK. The FCA has now placed restrictions on BML which remove its ability to carry out those regulated activities -- however BML was not actually doing any business in the UK so the effect of this is limited. The FCA also issued a consumer warning which, among other other things, reiterated that no entities in the Binance group are registered with the FCA and therefore cannot carry out regulated activity in the UK. Again, the impact of this is limited since the entity that you interact with when using the Binance.com website is not based in the UK, and the FCA does not have jurisdiction over it. A possibly outcome is that Binance will be a bit more circumspect about offering derivatives trading to UK retail because they want to build a more substantial UK business in the future. We saw this with Bybit a while ago, where they do not allow UK retail to use their website (although they have an exception for sophisticated investors, who can self-certify as an eligible counterparty and continue to trade on Bybit). I wouldn't be surprised to see this.
nabakin 5y ago
After the misconduct I personally witnessed with Binance's voting system[0], I don't think I'll ever use them. Basically, there was conclusive evidence candidate cryptocurrencies allowed blatant manipulation of the voting system and Binance did nothing. I forgot which cryptocurrency or voting round this was specifically but in the candidate cryptocurrency's official discord server, individual users were placing multiple votes instead of the single vote they were allotted. The discord server was filled with this blatant abuse of the voting system, screenshots were taken as evidence, yet the creators of the candidate cryptocurrency and Binance did nothing. I suspect Binance didn't care because more votes, even in violation of their rules, meant more BNB for them. And I suspect the creators of the cryptocurrency didn't care because they wanted to be listed on Binance. I'm certain this wasn't the only instance of misconduct out there, merely the only one I saw. [0]: https://www.binance.com/en/vote https://www.binance.com/en/vote

300 points by Osiris30 5y ago

Banned from setting up a UK specific exchange and not allowed to undertake regulated activities such as lending. This in no way affects the existing Binance exchange or the ability of UK users to use Binance.

lugged 5y ago
I pulled my funds from binance, writings on the wall.
- wpietri 5y ago
  Yup. Regulators have given cryptocurrency companies a surprisingly long leash. But at least in the US, that's changing for sure.
- Animats 5y ago
  Well, as large amounts of funds are pulled from Binance, we will find out if they've been stealing. A good regulatory step for the US would be to require that it can't be harder to withdraw than to deposit. Any ID requirements have to be completed before depositing, not withdrawing. And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2. Same rules as regular brokers.
  - wyldfire 5y ago
    > And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2. I've never seen this notation before. Does it refer to blocks, hours, or (gasp!) days?
    - jcranmer 5y ago
      Given the typical settlement time of financial systems, I would assume it's days.
    - Animats 5y ago
      Trade day plus 2 business days.[1] This is the standard in the securities industry for most transaction settlements. Not paying on time is called a "fail". There are penalties. For US stockbrokers, FINRA enforces them. In the real world, a broker failing to pay out cash on time to multiple customers is a Big Deal. Alerts come up on Bloomberg terminals. It's headline news. Institutional investors stop sending trades to that broker and start demanding collateral. The SEC, FINRA, NASDAQ, NYSE, the Fed, and other become involved. See the collapse of Bear Sterns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B2
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Completely dumb and enabling of high finance scams. Instant settlement means nobody can play games. It fixes this. Embrace this.
        Animats 5y ago
        Some delay is useful in catching scams. See [1]. But not much delay. 2 days is a useful compromise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery
        randomhodler84 5y ago
        You have to catch them before settlement — that is the only logical and safe way. Any delay just lets the supposed holder mess about with stealing from one to pay another. If you act like every action is permanent, irrevocable… you conduct your life with care. It’s a radical deviation from the fun and games occurring today.
        xeromal 5y ago
        Not sure what the sentence means
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    The reality is they don’t need to. Pegged tokens are the ultimate way to fractional reserve. See tether. Plenty of binance pegged tokens to handle any loss. Best thing is when binance has to buy themselves whole, they just just burn the tokens on their chain. Genius. Not your keys, not your coins. Also that t+2 thing is just allowing shenanigans. When Rh forces the industry into instant settlement next year (hope!!) we will see who is truly been playing funny money. Looking at you citadel.
- bombcar 5y ago
  When you pull funds how do you transfer them out? As fiat or Bitcoin or tether or?
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    Stablecoin would work, BTC or ETH would work. It's not that hard.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    If the UK makes it hard to trade bitcoin, you can also guess that the value of bitcoin denominated in GBP will go down dramatically. You probably don't want to be holding tether in that case.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      In my experience, it's typically been the opposite. Countries with harsher capital controls / make it harder to use Bitcoin, attract a premium in the purchase / sale of Bitcoin. South Africa for example has very strict capital controls, hence the price to buy or sell Bitcoin is higher than elsewhere. The catch is that you can't easily move fiat out of the South African economy, which makes abritrage, to take advantage of this imbalance, impossible.
      - sbierwagen 5y ago
        The UK does not have South African capital controls. Unless it's for proceeds of criminal activities, in which case you don't really want to enter every transaction in a global immutable ledger!
    - celticninja 5y ago
      It hasn't done that and it is unlikely that they will. There are UK based exchanges, the issue here is with binance specifically and not cryptocurrencies in general.
mgamache 5y ago
"The U.K.’s Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has ordered crypto exchange Binance to stop undertaking any regulated activity in the country. But since the exchange pulled its application for the FCA's crypto-assets register, it will be unable to offer services that previously counted as unregulated — such as spot trading — either." https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109766/uk-fca-bans-crypto-exchange-binance https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109766/uk-fca-bans-crypt...
- nebulous1 5y ago
  Looks like they actually altered that part. It now reads. "Since Binance pulled its application, that means the exchange can no longer provide services that were previously unregistered either, such as spot trading" It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance can or can't do at the moment.
  - spottybanana 5y ago
    > It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance can or can't do at the moment. I'm sure also Binance and the FCA aren't sure about that. The regulatory uncertainty in this space is huge. Even after this statement it is very unclear if there are any effective sanctions FCA can enforce on Binance if they continue doing whatever they are doing. Or they might just stop advertising, and start some stealth advertising campaigns after an year os so.
agilob 5y ago
but does that mean Binance will stop reporting accounts with trades for over £5k to HMRC?

joemazerino 5y ago

Is there anyone with experience using Binance from a banned or restricted zone? Was your crypto frozen?

vageli 5y ago
As a US user, I've accessed my old account via VPN to remove funds a couple months ago without issue. I was unable to access binance without VPN though (the original binance not the US specific new one).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Also booted from Ontario, Canada. https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/o80yxs/binance_banned_in_ontario/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/o80yxs/bina... https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ba03469c86f34546bd25faf414730733# https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ba03469c86f3...

neom 5y ago
I got a message from newton.co about doing a bunch of KYC compliance(they're Canada only), presume Canada Gov generally is starting to wrap its arms around crypto?

overtonwhy 5y ago

"Binance has until Wednesday evening to confirm that it has removed all advertising and financial promotions, according to the FCA’s register. The exchange must also make clear on its website, social media channels and all other communications that it is no longer permitted to operate in the U.K." "Binance is being probed by several agencies in the U.S., Bloomberg News reported in recent months. And Japan’s Financial Services Agency issued a warning against Binance recently, saying it offered crypto services without registration."

throwaway77384 5y ago

I kept my funds on Binance for a while, for convenience's sake. However, the old rule applies: not your keys, not your crypto. Keeping anything on an exchange, for the time being, is just too risky. This is another example of it. Governments are still trying to figure out how to regulate crypto, ever shifting the amount of hurdles between crypto and the world of fiat. I'd advise to pull funds if possible. I've recently done so with mine. Of course that means my keys / wallets are now my responsibility, along with ensuring that I have appropriate backups in place etc.

rchaud 5y ago
Is there an ELI5 guide to keeping coins secure when they're off-exchange? I heard terms like 'cold wallet', 'cold storage', but surely there's work that goes into creating a secure USB stick?
- mrgordon 5y ago
  In the extreme case people will set up a paper wallet using a computer that’s disconnected from the internet. Once they have the keys, they can typically keep them non-digitally and transfer coins to that address as safe cold storage
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Consider a hardware wallet like Ledger or Trezor, both are pretty easy to use and have extensive documentation. I'm sure there are OSS/hardware solutions you can roll yourself, too.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  You can buy something like Ledger Nano which is a hardware wallet. Essentially, the private keys never leave the device, you can instead just sign messages directly with it. You can also have normal software wallets (don't recommend it for larger amounts) or paper wallets.
- jasdine817 5y ago
  I just used a tool called BIP39 generator on and offline machine which you can feed entropy and it will generate a bitcoin private key. then sent funds to that address. Then just keep those details safe.

nikolay 5y ago

Can we end these scams already?!

exdsq 5y ago
How is binance a scam?
- brighton36 5y ago
  I think the op addresses this... These are unlicensed securities.
- zdyn5 5y ago
  Half of HN thinks anything crypto-related is automatically a scam.
- bronzeage 5y ago
  They are cooperating with the Tether scam, so they are a scam too.
- tomytosian 5y ago
  it is a clear scam. the pattern is exactly the same than 2017 pump and dumb and bans

yawaworht1978 5y ago

Yesterday most of Canada, today Uk. Crypto adoption, but I reverse chronological order./s What is the US waiting for? Can't be long now.

mgbmtl 5y ago
Most of Canada? I only noticed Ontario. Are there other provinces?
- notatoad 5y ago
  that's just how ontario thinks.
zarzavat 5y ago
Exchanges are commodities, people can just move to another one. Hinderances in the way of shady exchanges can only make the market healthier by pushing funds towards more trustworthy exchanges.

kgraves 5y ago

Good. This is welcome and excellent news, I hope more regulators follow suit of this to more unregulated exchanges in the future. Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters. I would go as so far as to banning them all.

zdyn5 5y ago
“Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters.” Source?
- chrononaut 5y ago
  Not OP, but I have also been curious of the popularity of the actual set of transactions that serve utility and result, or facilitate, an exchange between two actors where one of them is providing something tangible (i.e, transactions other than acquiring cryptocurrency to hold, and then exiting back to fiat after some period of it). Obviously this will be difficult to actually know, for reasons that it's "hard to trace" but also most studies are likely biased in one direction (for the concept of cryptocurrency) or the other (against the concept of cryptocurrency). My intuition tells me that most transactions (at least in absolute fiat dollars) that result in an exchange of tangible assets are largely illicit transactions that would otherwise be frowned upon the individual's place of residence (e.g., ransomware, drugs, money laundering), but I don't know how that compares to other forms like standard retail services, local inflation hedging, or overseas transfers. The former group (in particular ransomware) is certainly enabled significantly more due to the existence of cryptocurrency however.
  - deleted 5y ago
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- kgraves 5y ago
  Why is this coin 'Monero' being used by these fraudsters and criminals to hide their activity? [0] The fact that this is making ransomware run rampant and now the victim is also part of the unfortunate process of paying the ransom in Bitcoin, (and now apparently they can also pay in Monero at the hackers, 'convenience')[1] it's getting to a point where regulators need to step in before this happens to more companies and the general public. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc40d8b6 https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc40d... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-cryptocurrency-of-choice-for-cyber-criminals.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-cryptocur...

Shosty123 5y ago

I moved my funds from Binance shortly after their CFO jumped ship. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

readyoubestbook 5y ago

I have my crypto in Binance, any tips on how to move it away from there?

plondon514 5y ago
Create a blockchain.com wallet
- 3np 5y ago
  This is terrible advice. There are much better options even if you do want a custodial wallet.
eingaeKaiy8ujie 5y ago
Send it to your address?
puranjay 5y ago
Create a Metamask account and send your crypto to your address. Works with all ERC-20 tokens
mr_sturd 5y ago
I've stuck with Electrum for Bitcoin, and MetaMask for Ethereum/ERC20 tokens. With both, make sure to save the generated seed phrases, and use a strong password to lock the wallets.
3np 5y ago
Create your own non-custodial wallet. Ideally keys would be generated either on an airgapped computer, or on a hardware wallet (e.g. Ledger). For non-significant amounts that you want to be able to use in the go, you can choose to additionally have a hot wallet (others have already mentioned MetaMask for ETH-based, for example). If you do not want to go the extra mile and want convenience, and have an iPhone, personally I think an iOS-based wallet is a more secure choice than having it on your desktop or Android device. Save your BIP39 seed phrase offline (paper for example). Protect it with a pass phrase. If you want extra protection on the passphrase, there are solutions to “split” it using Shamir’s scheme to for example 2-out-of-3 and store the parts on different locations. (Definitely run this on an offline device, for example on a laptop booted from a live USB key) Either way I advise against fully custodial wallets such as blockchain.com or crypto.com (commonsly recommended but not your keys not your coins).

rabf 5y ago

"The ban, said an FCA spokesperson, only applies to Binance's English incorporation, Binance Markets Limited, which Binance has not registered with the FCA (despite plans to do so). The spokesperson clarified that "UK consumers can continue to interact" with Binance Group, the wider, international collection of Binance companies that maintains no official headquarters. That means that Binance's customers in the UK can trade on Binance as normal—nothing changes."

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topicseed 5y ago

From my understanding, this ban applies to regulated activities such as trading some specific securities, as well as options, contracts, and the likes. From the FCA's website[0]: > While we don’t regulate cryptoassets like Bitcoin or Ether, we do regulate certain cryptoasset derivatives (such as futures contracts, contracts for difference and options), as well as those cryptoassets we would consider ‘securities’ – find out more information. A firm must be authorised by us to advertise or sell these products in the UK [0] https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/consumer-warning-binance-markets-limited-and-binance-group https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/consumer-warning-bi...

mirekrusin 5y ago

Funnily enough the reason seems to be poor money laundering measures. I always thought exchanges are the only money laundering gates where govt can have control.

berkes 5y ago
Which is why you see governments pushing against exchanges with poor money laundering measures. Like here.

ArkanExplorer 5y ago

Its great to see Governments finally acting against Crypto. The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned. This will indirectly disable Ransomware, since businesses will not be able to purchase the coins. And by reducing the price of coins, reduce the waste (electricity, hardware, human effort) associated with 'mining' them.

jMyles 5y ago
This perspective is just so alien to me. I don't understand how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of lifelong emotional torment. Moreover, your predictions seem completely bombastic to me. Has there ever been a case where governments banned something and the resulting black market settled at a cheaper equilibrium? I can't think of one.
- ArkanExplorer 5y ago
  The State can be replaced democratically. Crypto is full of pump and dump and exit scams. Bitcoin et al are also algorithmically supply inelastic. As demand for the coins decreases (due to the inability to actually buy them), the price will decline. This is basic supply and demand economics.
  - Shosty123 5y ago
    "The State can be replaced democratically." Tell that to my friend who had his family's fortune wiped out in Argentina twice due to government seizure and hyperinflation before fleeing the country. Are these people just supposed to just take it on the chin for generations until their governments/societies stabilize? I don't know how anyone can see no value in a medium of exchange outside of government currency controls.
  - newfriend 5y ago
    The State is forced upon you. Crypto is opt-in. If you think it's a pump and dump, then just don't participate. Stop forcing people to do what you want, stop banning things you don't like. Leave me alone.

hermitsings 5y ago

Won't be surprised if India goes this way as well.

puranjay 5y ago
Yeah, on-off ramps might be hard in India very soon. The RBI has no fondness for crypto. Don’t think a ban is coming but I do think we will have to rely on P2P to on/off ramp - not a great solution when large sums of money are involved.

LatteLazy 5y ago

Anti money laundering is (rightly or wrongly) pretty incompatible with crypto. The question "where did these funds come from" is something no one using crypto can really answer honestly and it's the core question in AML. I like crypto. I like defacto drug decriminalisation and sanctions busting. But it was never gonna make it past AML.

spottybanana 5y ago
What? I have used BTC for years and never had problem answering that honestly. I would argue the opposite, most BTC users are very straightforward investors, they bought BTC, maybe bought something with it along the years, then held the rest, then when the value went up sold some. Maybe the ones who have something shady going on are just the noisiest?
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  The issue is a buy and hold investor will get $5k and sit on it. Another user sells $5k's worth every month because he's a small drug dealer. That second user is 1000x more revenue for the exchange because he trades every month. But you can't do business with him unless he tells you exactly what he's doing and who he is and gives you evidence he's getting those bitcoin from legitimate sources. Which he is not. So he really can't do any of that... You get the same thing in most exchanges: a few percent of users are 80% of revenue. And that's true even when there is no "secondary market" which can only make it worse.
- puranjay 5y ago
  Its become a whole lot more complicated with DeFi. You might have made your profits from yield farming, lending, airdrops, etc. Its not simply a matter of “bought low, sold high”.
diamond559 5y ago
There's a protocol on Ethereum called Aave providing lending/borrowing to banks/institutional investors in separate permissioned pools that comply with AML and kyc regulations.

wyldfire 5y ago

I've always believed in the strength and independence of Bitcoin and cryptocoins. But maybe there's just so many evil-doers/criminals out there that the novel trust free payment network will crumble under the weight of all of the adjacent scams. I hope not, but I find myself in the truly puzzling position of rooting for the regulators sometimes. I can easily partition bitcoin's good qualities from all of the bad things that people do with/for them. But I don't think most people will do that. At the same time, in some ways it's nearly indestructible. So even if it's unpopular it will at the very least continue to serve the black market.

CryptoPunk 5y ago
The bad people don't disappear when you create gatekeepers. Their power multiplies exponentially, as they use the regulatory process to suppress competition and hold the consumer captive. Theory would suggest that in a free market, people who act maliciously, and fail to build a positive reputation, would steadily be abandoned for those who act benevolently, and succeed in building a positive reputation. This would be a corrective feedback mechanism which steadily makes the social configuration less exploitive, and I think one could reasonably assume it is a far less failure-prone feedback mechanism than periodic political elections. Beyond the theoretical arguments, the empirical evidence suggests this is what happens. For example, countries with lower levels of government spending as a percentage of GDP have on average higher rates of economic development. For a more relevant example, the quality of project needed for a token sale to be successful massively rose between 2015, when the first token sale was announced, and late 2017, when the SEC shut down token sales. The market was evolving, while massively expanding the number of people participating in early-stage investing: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11408-020-00366-0 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11408-020-00366-0 >"The average ICO has almost 4700 contributors. The median contributor invests a relatively small amount. The ICO market appears to have successfully given access to the financing of innovation to a new class of investors, which is a long-standing public policy issue"
- tobltobs 5y ago
  "For example, countries with lower levels of government spending as a percentage of GDP having on average higher rates of economic development." Any citation for that?

nivenkos 5y ago

Great news, now just ban all the fiat-crypto exchanges.

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.is/gH3Ls https://archive.is/gH3Ls

deeceejhay 5y ago

Also getting pressure from Japan: https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/japans-fsa-warns-against-crypto-exchange-giant-binance/ https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/japans-f...

digianarchist 5y ago
Shut shop in Ontario: https://www.coindesk.com/binance-pulls-out-of-ontario-following-actions-against-other-crypto-exchanges https://www.coindesk.com/binance-pulls-out-of-ontario-follow...

lvs 5y ago

The title of this thread is wrong and doesn't match the headline. The regulator acted against Binance Markets, which is a separate legal entity.

fukd 5y ago

booooooooooom

avvt4avaw 5y ago

I thought it was worth clarifying exactly what has happened here, since neither the BBC nor the FT articles make it particularly clear. The entity that the FCA has acted against is Binance Markets Limited (BML) which Binance acquired earlier this year, in part because of its existing registration with the FCA which allowed it to carry out a limited range of regulated activities in the UK. The FCA has now placed restrictions on BML which remove its ability to carry out those regulated activities -- however BML was not actually doing any business in the UK so the effect of this is limited. The FCA also issued a consumer warning which, among other other things, reiterated that no entities in the Binance group are registered with the FCA and therefore cannot carry out regulated activity in the UK. Again, the impact of this is limited since the entity that you interact with when using the Binance.com website is not based in the UK, and the FCA does not have jurisdiction over it. A possibly outcome is that Binance will be a bit more circumspect about offering derivatives trading to UK retail because they want to build a more substantial UK business in the future. We saw this with Bybit a while ago, where they do not allow UK retail to use their website (although they have an exception for sophisticated investors, who can self-certify as an eligible counterparty and continue to trade on Bybit). I wouldn't be surprised to see this.

nabakin 5y ago

After the misconduct I personally witnessed with Binance's voting system[0], I don't think I'll ever use them. Basically, there was conclusive evidence candidate cryptocurrencies allowed blatant manipulation of the voting system and Binance did nothing. I forgot which cryptocurrency or voting round this was specifically but in the candidate cryptocurrency's official discord server, individual users were placing multiple votes instead of the single vote they were allotted. The discord server was filled with this blatant abuse of the voting system, screenshots were taken as evidence, yet the creators of the candidate cryptocurrency and Binance did nothing. I suspect Binance didn't care because more votes, even in violation of their rules, meant more BNB for them. And I suspect the creators of the cryptocurrency didn't care because they wanted to be listed on Binance. I'm certain this wasn't the only instance of misconduct out there, merely the only one I saw. [0]: https://www.binance.com/en/vote https://www.binance.com/en/vote