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Reviews of Android TV launcher after Google added ads to the homescreen

709 points by pizza 5y ago

fartcannon 5y ago
Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook - we power their abuses with our money. Just stop buying their trash. Support open hardware, free and open source software.
- jsilence 5y ago
  Like the otter box for example: https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/you-otter-be-able-to-stream-that-audio-open-hardware-eclipses-chromecast-audio/ https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/you-otter-be-able-to-stream-...
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  People bought devices that did not show the ads. Now Google has forced those ads onto those devices. So, hindsight being 20/20, this is yet another abuse.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    You're not wrong, but what should be the narrative to any future devices like this is: "They change it after selling it to you for the worse, don't buy their products." When that becomes the reputation the problem will solve itself when they stop selling them from bad reputation.
    - alisonkisk 5y ago
      It's still vandalistic destruction of property Google doesn't own. Google and their hardware partners owe refunds to all these customers.
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
        I'm sympathetic to the idea that there are implicit expectations during a purchase that shouldn't ideally be violated. But I'm curious if you truly believe this, or if it's just hyperbole. In this "fully my property, not a service I'm using" framework, would an update that patches a security vulnerability be "altruism"? Would refusal on Google's part to patch vulnerabilities be a completely acceptable refusal to futz with someone's property? This is a serious question; my perspective is that "I thought I was buying unchanging property" is disingenuous unless you're similarly surprised by app updates and maintenance (let alone feature development). The expectation of these updates makes it pretty clear to me that this resembles a service more than a static product that Google has ability to "vandalize" (or responsibility to maintain).
        fartcannon 5y ago
        They should be legally required to supply security patches and legally required not to reduce the functionality of the device. If they can't do that, then they need to stay out of the space.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      And how much billions is the marketing budget to get that narrative successful ? /s
      - LegitShady 5y ago
        mostly memes
  - swebs 5y ago
    After a certain point, you have to start noticing patterns.
- afavour 5y ago
  Very difficult to do when it comes to entertainment. Almost all streaming services have locked down DRM that makes running open source software very difficult. (I know someone will say “just pirate it then!” but even putting moral obligations aside that’s still not realistic for the average viewer)
  - wyager 5y ago
    I don’t believe there is any coherent moral argument against piracy in the face of such hostile tactics from media companies.
    - afavour 5y ago
      Of course there is. Pirating streaming media isn’t like stealing bread to feed your starving family, it’s entirely optional. If you don’t agree with the terms of service (i.e. DRM) then don’t use the service. Deciding on your own terms of service is just entitlement. I personally don’t care either way but you can’t say there is no argument against it.
      - wyager 5y ago
        Stealing bread actually deprives someone else of a scarce resource, but the marginal cost of making a digital copy of a TV show is ~zero. So you’re right - it is quite different. Stealing bread is much worse than copying a digital file.
        sosborn 5y ago
        Stealing bread to feed your family when the alternative is starving is not the same as watching Game of Thrones.
        fwn 5y ago
        You both argue around the question: how does the unlicensed reproduction of media morally compare to stealing. Argument 1: Sufficiently severe benefits should mitigate the moral fault in theft. Argument 2: Sufficiently small damage should mitigate the moral fault in theft. You both seem to at least implicitly agree that both is theft, which would be a traditional point of disagreement in the debate. I commented because I think one and two might be structurally the same argument: It's a consequentialist idea of utility thresholds. A key disagreement would be whether there are thresholds that make the quantitative difference in utility a qualitative difference. Think hunger on one side and unquantifiable small loss in profits on the other side.
- arnaudsm 5y ago
  Kodi+Jellyfin is amazing, I'll never use closed source stuff on my TV again.
- stiltzkin 5y ago
  Talking specifically of TV experience the Shield has been the best streaming device on the market. Working out of the box and putting away the tinkering and manual config of the common HTPC. NVIDIA has brought updates and support to old Shield devices with the almost same support as Apple devices. It is disappointing NVIDIA does not own their own OS as Apple and Shield loyal users are affected of Google anti-consumer behaviour.
herbst 5y ago
Android TV is a surprisingly bad system anyway. Barely apps, I can access maybe 100 games from my TV. The far majority absolute, and filled, trash games. I suddenly found myself locked out of thousands of things I used to watch because the browser, if even enable-able, sucks and so many sites/services have no interest in having an app. Owning a TV still feels like a step down for me, since I was used just streaming on my computer. Without the kodi app I would see no reason to recommend a android smart TV over any cheap TV and a small Kodi box.
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  The entire Android TV experience is one of constant tweaking of F-Droid, Aurora Store, and Bromite System Webview app updates with upstream adblocking, firewalling, and rooting in an attempt to stymie this sort of crap from Google and other big, bad corporations. I ditched all of that and now run Libreelec (Kodi) on a Pi4.
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  My parents have an Android TV and often have to reboot it to for the internet connection to work. Makes all the streaming apps a pain to use.
  - herbst 5y ago
    I don't think that's specific to android tho. I got a Xiaomi one explicitly because they have good WiFi chips. This was one of my main worries, and I never had issues so far
    - yorwba 5y ago
      How do you find out which ones have good WiFi chips?
      - herbst 5y ago
        I honestly don't know. Thing is I have had Xiaomi devices before, and they are my only smart devices that do not have connection issues (for me) and work in my back garden. My new Xiaomi phone is the only of our phones that streams in hd in my backyard. So yeah just personal experience and bad experiences with things like Samsung
cf100clunk 5y ago
Upstream ad blocking may help, but will the screen space still be taken up?
- hashworks 5y ago
  Yes. It falls back to build in ads for standard apps like YouTube or Google Movies.
designium 5y ago
I suggest using an old laptop or desktop and install Kodi or Plex to solve for this.
- herbst 5y ago
  Kodi also works surprisingly well as Android app :) sorrily way snappier than on the RPI (v4, 8gb ram I think) that was explicitly recommended from the kodi website :/
  - cf100clunk 5y ago
    Which do we value more, speed of the UI or susceptibility to undesireable change? Libreelec (Kodi) on Pi4 skews away from the latter.
    - herbst 5y ago
      I have Kodi on my cheap android TV which performs much faster than on my pi. So I prefer that. My RPI even crashes from time to time, even thought it has active cooling. Elec just can turn into a resource hog, especially if you switch between apps often. I am just still pissed that I spent $150 on a pi with case for elec when it obviously isn't the optimal device. And want others to avoid the problem :) As said somewhere else, calling home issues are just a question of your firewall / DNS setup
      - ridiculous_leke 5y ago
        Which version of RPI is that?
        herbst 5y ago
        The most recent 5 months ago. So v4 I guess, the biggest that still supports 32bit Linux which afaik is the 8gb version. There was only one more expensive.
- hughrr 5y ago
Ansil849 5y ago
The way to combat this is not to buy products that have this and then complain about them. The companies that make them do not care, they have already gotten your money. The way to combat this is to not buy products that have this in the first place. edit: a lot of comments are saying that the ads were added later, after purchase. This doesn't change my opinion at all, because people still bought products that have the capability for ads to be added retroactively. That is on you. If you don't like the option of it happening, and as this example illustrates it can clearly happen, then do not buy products that have the capability of having ads added retroactively to the product.
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  How do you propose people don’t buy products that have ads added to them in the future?
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    It's very straightforward: do not buy products that have the capability to have ads added to them retroactively. There is zero way any of the three televisions in my house will have ads added to them unless someone physically comes into my home and replaces the television sets.
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      I was looking for dumb tvs a little bit ago and it's quite hard to find. Every company wants to turn their hardware sale into an eternal revenue stream.
      - Ansil849 5y ago
        They are not hard to find at all. Sure it's more 'difficult' than searching for 'TV' on Amazon, but if you spend ten minutes doing a web search, you will find some brands. Here's one site to get you started: https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/
      - 5y ago
temp8964 5y ago
I hated FireTV exactly because of the ads. Now I am using Roku comes with the TV. Roku has ad too, but not overwhelming. In the future, maybe the only choice is no-brand Android TV box/ stick which has ads removed.
- pixxel 5y ago
  PiHole to remove those Roku ads! I have PiHole running on a five dollar Pi Zero. Just sits on a shelf doing its thing on all devices connected to network.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    Does it leave a blank space on the home screen? I feel I am fine with the Roku ad in a rectangle box on the side of the home screen.
    - pixxel 5y ago
      Yes it leaves a blank space where ads would otherwise show.
  - djrogers 5y ago
    > running on a five dollar Pi Zero. While technically accurate, you also need a $10 SD card, a $3 usb cable, and a $5-10 power brick, so you’re really looking at a $25 solution here.
    - temp8964 5y ago
      I guess SD cards and USB cable don't count, because we all have some extra here and there? I never use SD cards, but I have at least four of them in my drawer...
  - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
    PiHole and similar ad-filtering proxies are a very fragile solution. The moment Google just decides to stream ads through the same domain as the "regular" content (e.g. updates, Play Store, etc.), what exactly is the PiHole going to do? This is not a "cat and mouse" game, like in-browser ad-blockers where the advertisers change something then the ad-blockers try to catch that. The in-browser ad-blockers have a lot more flexibility with blocking content since they are, basically, the consumer of that content. With PiHole, there is a point in which PiHole can just DO. NOTHING. to block content. If Google TV fetches its ads/spyware from playstore.google.com (for example), and uses https, what can PiHole do? Not even MitM, because Google will just pin the certificate. And let's not even get started on DNS-over-HTTPS... PiHole and the like are not long-term solutions.
NietTim 5y ago
If history has taught us anything: this will blow over in a few weeks or months and everyone will get used to it in the end. The small percentage of users who (sometimes only temporarily) stop using the service is offset by the new income and the majority of users do not care.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  It's not a service like a subscription. It's the driver for a suite of hardware products that Google intentionally broke after the return window.
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  History teaches us that HN readers are generally quite caring of these sort of intrusions into their previous "just right" setups and don't tend to just let it ride.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Keyword “HN Readers”, not users. I’d be surprised if even 1% of all Android TV users were HN Readers.
    - cf100clunk 5y ago
      That misconstrues my comment: I believe that HN readers (and users) care about topics like this over the long haul and don't tend to just let intrusions like Google's slide by without opprobrium. Thus, to me, the parent comment doesn't wash.
    - axlee 5y ago
      > I’d be surprised if even 1% of all Android TV users were HN Readers. Remove some magnitudes, and then some more.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    Yep, 16 new libreelec installs will appear, and thousands of google tvs will be sold in the meantime.
alisonkisk 5y ago
Interesting but why now? Based on the dates, this change came in April? Or did people update old reviews but keep the old timestamp?
- pizza 5y ago
  I posted it just now bc I just came across this today (have an nvidia shield but haven't had a chance to use it in a few months)
alibert 5y ago
The new launcher got force push on my Nvidia Shield (app store update is to manual).
- goda90 5y ago
  I saw Reddit comments saying the ad feature has been in the launcher for quite a few versions and was just turned on from their servers.
jmacd 5y ago
The new Apple TV 4K is a absolutely better than any of the high end android tv devices. I’ve been through them all (at considerable expense) and am now totally happy on the new apple tv
- rattray 5y ago
  Would use of an Android phone have any cause for frustration with an Apple TV? I'd assume not but I've never used one.
  - tmpz22 5y ago
    If it’s like the older Apple TV’s no. It comes with its own remote, the only iPhone integration is that your phone becomes an extra remote should the original be lost or broken
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      It works with a lot of TV remotes, I rarely use the Apple one.
  - callahanrts 5y ago
    You won't be able to use your phone as a remote, or to enter passwords, but other than that, there would be no frustration.
  - auggierose 5y ago
    I guess you would not be able to stream your display to the Apple TV, and you would not be able to use your phone for keyboard input, and probably more. Just get an iPhone already!
  - setpatchaddress 5y ago
    No, Apple TV doesn't require any other Apple devices. It will prompt you for an iCloud account during setup, but you can create a free one or just not have one.
  - banana_giraffe 5y ago
ArkanExplorer 5y ago
Does this also impact Android TVs? Like Sony models, etc.
- mortenjorck 5y ago
  I want to know this as well. I’m considering another Sony for my next TV (I currently have a pre-Android model), but if this update affects the Sony UI, that immediately strikes them from the list.
skummetmaelk 5y ago
Well I guess I had been putting off setting up that pi-hole for too long anyway.
- herbst 5y ago
  I feel scared opening the web outside of my home these days. Seriously what even is that thing people used to call internet!? In all seriousness running that pi-hole is power and hardware perfectly well spent. And you literally start saving time
cs702 5y ago
Where does the "ad invasion" end? Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Smart windows that display ads that block your view of your backyard? Smart paints that display ads on your bedroom walls? Smart shower-heads that play jingles as you wash yourself? Smart brain implants that directly induce subconscious desire to buy certain products and services? Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right to advertise?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  It will never end so long as consumers will keep buying the products. In other words, it will never end, period.
- ne0flex 5y ago
  There was one startup that I met a few years ago that focused on enabling IoT on 'dumb' devices. Their first product some sort of plug for ceiling fans that allowed people to turn on & off / control the ceiling fan with their smartphone. The product also required a $5/month subscription service. I remember asking the CEO why would someone pay $5/month just to control their fan and he basically responded that the idea seems ludicrous and this point in time, but eventually people will catch on, and then he made an allusion to Microsoft Office and how that it's becoming a subscription product despite initially being one-off purchase 15 years ago.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    I think you're overestimating the degree to which useless subscriptions are sustainable. I just moved and am about to purchase something identical to what you're describing[1], and it's a one-time purchase, as expected. [1] https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451 https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451
    - yccs27 5y ago
      Are you sure it will stay a one-time purchase? Given the post topic, your confidence seems ironic. In a few years' time, you might start seeing ads in the associated app...
scrollaway 5y ago
Question to HN users: I have a dumb display attached to an nvidia shield. The Shield is nice: It's powerful enough, runs decent version of the common apps I care about (netflix, plex, youtube, spotify are the ones I use), and the remote is minimalistic and nice to use. Let's say I want to opt out of Google for this. What the hell do I do? I do have a Windows PC attached to the TV, for gaming, but if I wanted to run the apps above they wouldn't be optimized for TV input, they'd be cumbersome to use. Attaching a Linux box isn't going to work particularly well for gaming either. Seriously, what are the alternatives there?
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  That's a great Ask HN question actually, as opposed to a comment here.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    Fair point. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27644017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27644017
- tguvot 5y ago
  you can replace launcher on shield
- syntaxing 5y ago
  Not being snarky but an Apple TV
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    I briefly considered it. I've been entirely out of the Apple ecosystem so far (save for airpods). It sounds like Apple is gaining traction over time because the competition keeps getting worse and worse. I'm frankly not sure opting into Apple is a solution to the problem at large. It might be a temporary fix, but at the end of the day you're still using a proprietary system which might decide that ads are lucrative tomorrow.
  - 5y ago
matthewrobertso 5y ago
I ran into this last week on my nvidia shield. Here's a summary of the workaround I found (apologies for not having the specific package names offhand): 1. Install a new launcher from play store (I found one called "Basic Launcher" that matches the aesthetics of the default one). This doesn't solve the problem though, because Google disabled changing the default launcher for some user hostile reason, until you delete the existing launcher. 2. Enable development mode by tapping on the build number in settings 3. Connect an adb shell to your device 4. Remove the built in launcher 5. Reboot, select basic launcher when prompted I own a few android TV devices, have recommended them to people in the past, and won't be purchasing another. I think what happened here should be illegal and shame on whoever worked on this.
- wccrawford 5y ago
  At first, I thought nVidia had done this, and I was cursing their name. After some searching, I discovered this is actually the stock launcher from Google instead. nVidia should absolutely get ahead of this to preserve their own reputation.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    That's Nvidia's choice to use default launcher. It's not like Google does not allow their partners to adapt OS. I agree about blaming Google first, but it's device from Nvidia, customer will not research where each particular application or part came from. If battery will blow up, nobody will blame some nameless chinese factory.
    - brewdad 5y ago
      I absolutely blame Nvidia for this. I fully expect ads on my $25 Fire Stick. It's part of the bargain with Amazon. There is no way there should be ads on a $150-200 device, especially when they have been added in well after purchase. Regardless of where they choose to lay blame, if Nvidia doesn't fix this I am done with their devices when it's time to replace them.
implying 5y ago
For frustrated HN users, I have managed to remove the ads by uninstalling all updates to android home, disabling "TV core services" and "Google Play Services". You'll also need to disable automatic updates in the play store. This won't let you sign into Google apps anymore, but most major apps work fine after a reboot.
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  Great info - an alternative to Google Store is Aurora Store, which allows most apps to update anonymously.
andrefuchs 5y ago
Any suggestions for an Ad Blocker or different Android TV launcher?
techlaw 5y ago
I am hopeful that now that the FTC has a pro-consumer Chair that some of these anti-consumer acts will be curtailed. I would also argue that some of these bad acts could be considered to be false / deceptive trade practices under the various state laws (in the U.S. at least). For example, some people would never have bought a FireTV cube for streaming video if Amazon had revealed that they would be adding advertisements to the consumer's video-viewing experience. But: how much incentive is there for individuals to file a small claims suit against Amazon for a $79 device? Generally speaking you might get treble damages but not much more unless you've had actual damages. And although class action suits are frustrating and should be "fixed" so that those harmed get the bulk of the proceeds (i.e. it's not okay that consumers receive discount coupons or $10 checks while plaintiff's counsel receives a disproportionally huge payday) this is one thing we've lost by generally not allowing class actions. David v. Goliath is not as effective as 15,000 Davids v. Goliath. Not to even mention the mandatory arbitration imposed on consumers (which do sometimes carve out the ability to file in small claims court). We have cultivated, or at least allowed, a very anti-consumer bias to take hold in U.S. law.
- yellowfish 5y ago
  there's nothing wrong with ads on stuff like this; televisions aren't sacred ground.
  - simonh 5y ago
    There's nothing wrong with it, if you are told about this up front and it's part of your purchasing calculation. Retroactively adding ads to an ad-free device after the customer has purchased it, sometimes buying it specifically to avoid competing devices with ads, is inexcusable bullshit.
    - shmolf 5y ago
      If you subscribe to cable/satellite television, you expect there to be advertising. I'm not certain, but i suspect the agreement you sign while signing up for cable or streaming services, would include some sort of advertising clause. Ie, u less a service explicitly promotes am ad-free experience, there should be no expectations of such.
enos_feedler 5y ago
Time for Apple to start taking tvOS seriously. There is a lot of advertising revenue for Apple to capture that doesn’t involve plastering ads everywhere. Just think about live sports intermissins.
- echelon 5y ago
  Apple is just another domineering company that takes our computing rights away. I don't want them at the helm, either.
sneak 5y ago
I once asked an Alexa device in my kitchen for a unit conversion or the weather or something. It responded as it always had, then advertised something after the response, some new Amazon feature I didn't care about. I calmly but immediately ripped it out of the wall and spiked it hard into the tile floor, where it shattered into pieces. It went out with the garbage that day. Vote with your eyeballs. Smash that shit to pieces and never buy anything that says Google or Android on it ever again.
teamspirit 5y ago
So I have a shield and have yet to check, but with the new Chromecast with Google TV there is an option in the settings to switch to Apps Mode(I'm pretty sure that's what it's called). This gives you the shield look with only your apps and zero "suggestions" (which are somehow always for shows and movies on services you don't have). I hope the shield has something similar.
- teamspirit 5y ago
  I'm not sure how to edit comments on a Materialistic but I found the link for cc w/gtv: https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10070784?hl=en https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10070784?hl=en
- Jackdanie1s 5y ago
  This mode deactivates voice control which is useful for input rather than manual on screen typing.
dwighttk 5y ago
Side note: Not really ads, but kinda ads. I wish Apple TV would let me hide shows they are pushing.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Kinda related, but I feel similarly about Apple News+. It's a handy interface for an overview of the news, but they push subscription options. I want to be able to configure it to just not show me the pay-even-more options. And to exclude certain news outlets altogether. At best you can choose to hide a news provider, but they don't really go away -- it just shows you a black box where the story would be, along with a note that you've blocked them, and a button to show it anyway. Sigh.
  - syncdk 5y ago
    I think Apple News is the only Apple made app that shows inline interest based adds. Annoyingly they still show them even if you pay for the News+ subscription.
- pkamb 5y ago
  Just don't use the "Apple TV" app on your Apple TV hardware? Make the Home button go to the App screen. https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/set-the-tv-button-atvbe7706127/tvos https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/set-the-tv-button-atvbe77...
HumblyTossed 5y ago
I have a Shield TV and I really despise this change. I bought a device that did NOT show ads on the home screen, now it does. How is that not... it just should NOT be allowed. Show me ads in YouTube, show me ads in whatever other app, but not my home screen. There's a difference. The home screen is MINE, not Google's.
- theturtletalks 5y ago
  Google will chock this up to "staying" competitive. The Fire TV and Samsung Smart TVs have had ads on the menu for a while now. Ads on the home screen takes it further. If this was nipped in the bud, it would not have made it this far. People are slowly realizing these commissions don't care about consumers, just making it seem they do.
- chimen 5y ago
  https://imgflip.com/i/5emx6j https://imgflip.com/i/5emx6j
- utopiah 5y ago
  > The home screen is MINE, not Google's. Android is owned by Alphabet (or Google if you prefer) and you decided to buy a device that runs their OS with their services that are not open source. You probably didn't even pay for the OS. What makes you think it is yours?
  - HenryKissinger 5y ago
    TIL I should create my own operating system from scratch if I don't want advertisements on my smart television. And people wonder why Congress wants to break up FAANG
  - eitland 5y ago
    > What makes you think it is yours? That we paid for it in the store? Nowhere did it say "free OS included" so it is entirely reasonable to think that some of the price was for the included OS and software at the time which has now been substantially degraded.
IanCal 5y ago
On the Nvidia shield, it's also just generally broken. Such absolutely basic easily reached things don't work. I've never experienced such a regularly broken bit of software. It's good enough that I prefer it over anything else I've tried bit my god I wish they'd leave features and make it work reliably. And now ads. We just removed all app channels so my son doesn't see ads as sometimes they'd be scary. Now he can see things he won't be able to watch. For fucks sake Google.
vishnugupta 5y ago
These days, it's difficult (almost impossible) find a dumb large TV in India. So I bought next best thing, a non-Google smart TV[1]. The UI is snappy. Soon I plan to hook it up with Apple TV. [1] https://www.flipkart.com/philips-6600-146-cm-58-inch-ultra-hd-4k-led-smart-tv/p/itm6ea45241c2c0a https://www.flipkart.com/philips-6600-146-cm-58-inch-ultra-h...
meibo 5y ago
I use a DNS-level adblocker and was wondering what those black blocks on the home screen were supposed to be. Should've guessed it was ads.
- sackerhews 5y ago
  Wanna bet how long until they start using own API for DNS lookup? I say 2 years. Stakes are 1 karma point.
mongol 5y ago
I can't see the reviews, probably because I am in a European country. What do they say?
- sbarre 5y ago
  They are all negative 1-star reviews complaining about a new giant banner that takes up a third of the home screen. Google did the same thing to the iOS YouTube app recently.
k4ch0w 5y ago
LG WebOs does the same thing. I haven’t accepted the eula and stream from my Apple TV. However, a friend of mines wife did and now he has ads everywhere on it. I don’t understand how this is so normalized? You actively have to work in order to block ads and trackers today. Its getting harder everyday. It’s so sad we have some of our worlds best engineers working on how to send ads to people. Our priorities are whack.
- benhurmarcel 5y ago
  Samsung's TV also put ads in the menu. I blocked them using Nextdns, at least that still works.
phreack 5y ago
Wow, great timing. I was days away from buying a Shield, but I get irrationally mad when forced to see ads. I won't now, even if there's hacky workarounds.
jonahbenton 5y ago
Was deeply frustrated last year when it became clear in the US market at least that dumb TVs no longer exist, not unless one wants to pay the 4x premium for buying a gaming monitor and using it as a TV. Decided to buy an Android TV, one that would not need a network connection on the Android side for HDMI input mode to work, and just keep a computer plugged into it. Lack of sensible remote control is annoying. But forced ads are infuriating.
- easton 5y ago
  From an older comment I made: Find the hospitality version of whatever you want from CDW (Samsung and LG do a lot of them, idk about Sony). They are designed for hotels and hospitals, and have the same picture quality but no smart stuff. An example from Samsung: https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-led-hospitality-tv/5364487 https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-le...
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    Thanks for the tip
donohoe 5y ago
Roku started doing this (though seems less intrusive so far than this) and its why I ditched it for an AppleTV. My big fear is that Apple will do the same in years to come but for now it is all we have.
- vlozko 5y ago
  They haven’t done so for 14 years. Given their posturing on privacy and their history, it stands to reason it’ll still be like this for another decade at least.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I'm hoping they have some idea that a chunk of their obscene levels of wealth comes from attracting customers who will opt for their garden to avoid the crap providers that push ads.
tpmx 5y ago
F*ck, I just bought an expensive Android-based Sony TV.
- turbohz 5y ago
  I got one for many years, haven't seen any ads ever. EDIT: wait, what ads are they talking about? OK, I see suggestions of Disney+ shows, and I don't have neither a subscription nor the app installed
  - tpmx 5y ago
    https://www.whathifi.com/news/old-sony-tvs-are-about-to-get-a-new-android-tv-interface https://www.whathifi.com/news/old-sony-tvs-are-about-to-get-... (I bought an X950H, as it's known in the US.)
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    Probably because your TV isnt getting updates anymore. Great news, no ads for you. Bad news, your TV isnt being patched anymore despite being perfectly usable for another 10 years...
lousken 5y ago
i don't see any in my language but the ratings are quite telling https://i.imgur.com/PGmoD33.png https://i.imgur.com/PGmoD33.png
hashworks 5y ago
As an alternative to a different launcher you can block the domain responsible for the ads [0] in your DNS resolver. The Launcher will then fallback to less intrusive "ads" for the standard apps: YouTube, Google Play, Google Movies, etc. I've added it to the adaway.org list [1], so it might find its way into blocklists you are already using soon. [0] androidtvwatsonfe-pa.googleapis.com [1] https://github.com/AdAway/adaway.github.io/pull/261 https://github.com/AdAway/adaway.github.io/pull/261
- deanclatworthy 5y ago
  Same approach for Samsung TVs. In fact nextdns has an option for Samsung ads explicitly so just enable that and point the TVs DNS to that. I presume this could be added to nextdns too with a custom url block.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
The one thing I like about Google's now many-years obsolete "do no evil" slogan is that it shows how it is impossible for companies to not eventually become "evil" once that's their only open easy revenue stream. Without debating what "evil" really means in this context, in the early days of a company there are plenty of ways to grow without being actively user hostile. Once those avenues are thoroughly maxed out, any company that is basically only measured by growth (i.e. every public company) will have to slide more and more into things that only boost revenue to the detriment of users. I mean, this change is so blatantly abusive and user hostile, and something that never would have been greenlit in, say, the 00s, just shows how far Google has decayed.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > it is impossible for companies to not eventually become "evil" once that's their only open easy revenue stream. Google doesn’t lack revenue streams, it just wants to maximise all of them ans make new ones. It’s the constant desire for growth and the mantra that ‘standing still is going baxkwards’ that I find repulsive.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > Once those avenues are thoroughly maxed out, any company that is basically only measured by growth […] will have to slide more and more into things that only boost revenue to the detriment of users. In this case, the law or regulation is supposed to step in. The problem is that the law pretty much stopped advancing when it comes to the digital world, at least when it benefits the consumer.
  - LeifCarrotson 5y ago
    The law is advancing at it's usual pace. Some highlights include the Magna Carta in 1215, the Constitution in 1787, the Emancipation in 1863, the 19th Amendment in 1920, the Civil Rights Act of 1964...if anything, progress is happening more quickly now than ever. It's just that culture/society/law change far slower than technology. Most US Senators are over 65, with associated world-views and educations more than half a century old. A quarter century ago, neither smart TVs, targeted ads, nor Google itself existed. Children today are warned about Internet tracking tools, privacy management, they're aware of the creepy omnipresent big brother nature of tech, perhaps in 2080 Congress will be ready to address these issues.
Bud 5y ago
It's astonishing to me that anyone who bought an Android or Google-centric TV product of any kind would expect anything other than that. They exist to track you and sell you ads. Period, paragraph. This is their business model. Accept it, or buy Apple TV plus a dumb TV (or a stupid "smart" TV with all network features permanently disabled). Those are the only options.
- poidos 5y ago
  Sharing what I learned trying to find a dumb TV: It appears that the two main options for 4K, non-networked TVs are 'business-grade' panels (e.g. [0]) and Sceptre[1], which are always out of stock. I haven't bought either yet (my dumb 1080p panel was working just fine until this week,) but I am planning on upgrading soon. [0]: https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays [1]: https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/
  - nfoz 5y ago
    There have been prior threads on HN about dumb tvs with several options. The LG "Commercial Lite" (for Business) series has some non-smart options, at least in Canada. It was just a few years ago I got my 55" 4k LG dumb tv for $1000 CAD and it's great. Though the market may have changed somewhat. Good luck
joshuaheard 5y ago
Tivo started running ads in its (subscription fee) service. It only takes up a single slot in the guide, but there are 3 in every screen. I called and complained, but what can you do. I stopped using Comcast box because of the intrusive ads. I fear this will be the future of streaming interfaces.
crisdux 5y ago
This reminds me of an article I read earlier this week in AdExchanger about Amazon's advertising business. https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/the-birds-eye-view-of-amazons-advertising-business/ https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/the-birds-eye... The future is all about video. Brands are paying Amazon top dollar because they can link customers to ads on Fire TV. Amazon is quickly moving into non-ecommerce advertisers, which is where Google shines.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
Who made these decisions, who worked on the implementation, who launched it? Would they have agreed to it if they were not anonymous? Would they have agreed on it if they were in a union?
- balozi 5y ago
  Management, product designers, devs, everyone - including the customers whose ads you are seeing. They are all in it together, making money. Union or no union.
  - andrei_says_ 5y ago
    What are the names of the manager, product designer, engineers who worked on this? I am speaking about the influence of anonymity in making and executing on user-hostile decisions.
yumraj 5y ago
This is great news for Apple TV. People who bought the nvidia shield, like me, were looking for a powerful device that was clean of ads. Now there is only one left.
varispeed 5y ago
I wanted to use Samsung Health app but it now only runs if I add permission to make phone calls. They changed it under guise of adding 2-factor auth, but the small print reads that they want my phone number so that my friends can discover me. This is just a disgrace. They should not be allowed to change phone features after purchase.
yumraj 5y ago
Does anyone know if pi-hole blocks these ads or is the dns hardcoded in these? Looks like I lucked out, my older Nvidia shield had not updated yet, it was downloaded Nvidia Experience 8.2.3 - so I just went and disabled auto-update.
Shadonototro 5y ago
people are surprised? wait until you purchase a premium smart TV ;) that shit should be illegal
josteink 5y ago
This is just a gentle reminder that as long as you’re happy to buy into walled gardens, the devices you buy are not truly yours. You’re merely in possession of them, with others allowed to set the rules. As an AppleTV user I could be totally smug about this, but there’s nothing stopping Apple from making a similar move if they wanted to, and I wouldn’t have jack shit to say about it. I’ve tried more open options and they all suck, but I hope one day there can come an open appliance-platform which at least is usable and supports all the latest standards. Then I might be willing to give it a try.
wly_cdgr 5y ago
The simplest and most productive solution is to throw away your TV as it serves no good purpose
mmind 5y ago
<300 reviews out of 50+ million downloads. Not sure the big deal, people can just use other launchers and the ads are relevant. Chromecast with GTV has had this for a while and people like it because they are relevant.
thih9 5y ago
A bit more general and off topic, I'm recently growing tired of updates in general; both on my phone and on my desktop. Has anyone been able to create a productive and safe environment where updates don't happen that often or don't affect their UX? I'd be interested to hear about such experiences.
MobileVet 5y ago
Seems like a pretty strong case for a Pihole setup. Short of network level fixes or loader swapping, is the best solution a dumb (disconnected TV) and a STB like AppleTV or Roku?
- Jolter 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure I read upthread that the Roku has ads, too?
  - MobileVet 5y ago
    Yea, you are right. I basically included that so I wouldn’t get ripped for shilling for Apple lol.
- RototRobot 5y ago
  I dont think a Pi-hole would work for this, because google serves the ads from the same location as the content (the same reason pi-hole can't block youtube ads)
adamc 5y ago
No more Nvidia shield recommendations, that's for sure. The execs who made this decision should be punished. They won't be. But I think this has convinced me to move my mail and give up on Google.
highwind 5y ago
If you buy a product from a company where their revenue comes primarily comes from ads, you should expect to see ads on their product.
- Jolter 5y ago
  Since when do Nvidia products come with that expectation, though?
- stiltzkin 5y ago
  Many Shield users were expecting NVIDIA disabling ads on the latest update for a $200 streaming device, seems NVIDIA did not care.
heurisko 5y ago
This reminds me of plummeting reviews after Chrome recently introduced tab groups. I hope they revert both highly unpopular decisions. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.chrome https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.ch...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kermire 5y ago
  I actually use tab groups. Have been using for a long time and really like having the ability to group tabs. What's the issue with it?
  - Denvercoder9 5y ago
    They don't have the option to open a link in a new top-level tab, you can only open links in a new tab in the current group.
ris 5y ago
People with no control over the software they run get surprised when it does something they don't like. News at 11.
billyhoffman 5y ago
I hate to be that guy, but this is exactly why I happily paid for an Apple TV. Yes, it’s $100 more than basic streaming sticks, but I have never had to worry about ads suddenly appearing after an update. This whole space is a race to the bottom with sticks being sold at or below cost because you are the product. For example, Vizio revealing in their first quarterly report as a public company that they get nearly as much revenue from selling ads and viewer usage data than from selling physical televisions. https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337.html https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337... A smooth, clean ad-free experience is certainly worth the extra price if you can afford it.
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  Indeed. It's hard to sympathize with people upset about ads when they bought a platform made by an ad company. The outcome was obvious here.
  - thiht 5y ago
    I bought a Sony TV, not a Google one. I would have expected Sony to disallow this somehow.
    - josefx 5y ago
      As far as I understand Googles Play Store comes with a viral license that forces preferential treatment for Google services on all Android devices made by a manufacturer unless they are sold in a country where that kind of anti competitive behavior is not tolerated. Basically Sonys choice is let Google rape its customers or kill all its Android based products over night.
  - LordDragonfang 5y ago
    The majority of people on the planet have phones running an OS made by the same ad company, and they'd be rightfully pissed if their home screens were suddenly was dominated by ads.
  - frereubu 5y ago
blendergeek 5y ago
My prediction: within a week, Google will delete all the negative reviews.
Schnitz 5y ago
Abandoned the Google ecosystem (Android, Chromecast, etc) this spring after 5+ years for Apple. Never looked back!
thiht 5y ago
I recently bought a 2000€ Sony Bravia which I love, but the update adding ads is atrocious. I paid premium and still get fucking ads, it’s a nightmare! The weirdest thing is that these ads have a political agenda, every day it’s for a new LGBT program. Every. Single. Day. Right now the three ads on the carousel are Pride on Disney+, Turn it Around on myCanal (French cable which I don’t use, I have no idea why I have ads for this one) and another LGBT documentary on France TV (same, I don’t have the app installed so no idea why I get this « recommendation ») Edit: please don't downvote me for stating a fact, I don't emit a judgment of value here. The fact is 100% of the ads I get are flagged as LGBT, which IS weird. It's not the only subject to discuss, and not one I personally care a lot about. I could get ads for documentaries on economy, animals, food, tons of topics, but I just get LGBT. Maybe it's not your experience, but it is mine.
- csunbird 5y ago
  The ads are just the companies virtue signaling.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  >these ads have a political agenda, every day it’s for a new LGBT program >I don't emit a judgment of value here It's Pride month, and today is literally the anniversary of Stonewall. Explicitly calling saying that any content even featuring LGBT people "has a political agenda" is a value judgement, implying you think the mere existence of a minority sexual identity in content is a political statement. You wouldn't call the service advertising heterosexual romance before Valentine's day a "political statement" (and probably wouldn't think twice about it), so it's prejudicial to claim the different for LGBT content during pride.
  - thiht 5y ago
    > It's Pride month, and today is literally the anniversary of Stonewall And not living in the US, I have no idea what Stonewall is nor that it's Pride month, nor even that Pride month is a thing (is it in France too?) > implying you think the mere existence of a minority sexual identity in content is a political statement No, I think recommending this and only this is a political statement. > so it's prejudicial to claim the different for LGBT content during pride It's literally written "LGBT" in the 1 line description of the ads I have.
mderazon 5y ago
Does it help if you have ad blocker on the dns level like NextDNS ?
nullify88 5y ago
I own a Shield and I've yet to see an ad on the home screen. I'm up to date and logged in with Google but not Nvidia. Anyone else in Europe getting adverts?
rdiddly 5y ago
Shitty old DVDs from Goodwill are looking better all the time!
- MikusR 5y ago
  With un-skippable intros and trailers.
arminiusreturns 5y ago
Advertisers are ruining the internet, how can we take them down a collective peg or ten? Congress is bought and paid for on both sides of the isle, so if you wanna address issues like this, you have to fix congress first, and the two parties are too far gone to ever be correctable. Its time for a radical shift away from party politics... if you want solutions that is.
supermatt 5y ago
I bought an Nvidia Shield Pro 4k in Jan 2020. I just got off chat with amazon UK, who have amazingly decided to process a refund for the device. I'll be buying an apple TV.
Shido 5y ago
I hate the idea of ads just like any other person however how else companies profit without it or creating a paid subscription to remove ads for so much a month/year? As I see it you pay for the product not the service.
- Latty 5y ago
  Then sell the product with ads and let people decide if they want to buy it with them or get something else. Don't sell someone hardware that operates seemingly without ads, then foist them on the user after-the-fact.
- stiltzkin 5y ago
  People paid for a $200 streaming device with a stock Android TV with basic launcher, NVIDIA failed allowing the stock Google launcher and not adding their own without ads.
bitL 5y ago
Is Google anticipating going bankrupt?
marinhero 5y ago
Can this be disabled via Pi-Hole?
temac 5y ago
Why people thought Google would suddenly stop being an advertisement company? (And pivot to what exactly overnight?) That's both in their DNA and still their overwhelming largest business. Of course don't buy a "smart" TV (that would probably be described more accurately as an "idiotic not-maintained-a-lot-IOT TV with more heavy planned obsolescence than usual"), but if you do, of course stay away from Google.
Softcadbury 5y ago
I wonder, does the hardware makers have a word to say about it ? Do they get a cut ? As I see it, it can impact sales (just look at how many times the shield is mention here)
awill 5y ago
It's getting harder and harder to not switch to Apple for both a premium phone and a premium digital media player. I've always had a Pixel phone, and (since 2015), the Shield TV Pro. It seems like Google is actively trying to lose. They didn't make a premium Pixel last year, and they've never made a premium digital media player. Rather than being grateful for Nvidia building the premium device they couldn't, they're actively ruining it. I get having ads on a >$50 device, but not on the $200 Shield TV. Who's running things at Google?
EastSmith 5y ago
Putting an old (5y, i5, 8gb) half broken laptop behind the TV was the best personal technical decision I've made ever. Super easy TV and Web. Also Games (streaming) once a good kb and mouse are set.
hsaliak 5y ago
Cant be easy for Nvidia. Stock Android experience is supposedly clean and simple, and vendor specific extensions just clutter. Now imagine their user base getting screwed over by an update they probably were only informed of.
stiltzkin 5y ago
What it is more disgusting are the obvious shilling that favors this ads intrusion. I invite you have a look on Reddit /r/ShieldAndroidTV/
olliej 5y ago
Google is fundamentally an advertising company, that’s why I don’t use any of their services and certainly would never pay for a product from them, because this is their M.O
dredmorbius 5y ago
Some years back, Google's then CEO Eric Schmidt openly stated that "The Google policy on a lot of things is to get right up to the creepy line and not cross it."[1] It is also (as has been the case with numerous other tech firms) been to take other experiences, here maximal ad saturation, straight up to the pain tolerance, before (one presumes) dialing it down a bit. (Facebook have similarly done this repeatedly with surveillance, stalking, and dark patterns, Microsoft formerly did this with licensing fee and process requirements, the latter limited by the tendency to drive users to either piracy or, vastly worse in Microsoft's view,[2] Linux or Free Software alternatives.) The rationale is effectively the same as that captured by Jules Dupuit's 19th century observation on the miserable quality of third-class rail service: It is not because of the several thousand francs which they would have to spend to cover the third class wagons or to upholster the benches. ... [I]t would happily sacrifice this [expense] for the sake of its popularity. Its goal is to stop the traveler who can pay for the second class trip from going third class. It hurts the poor not because it wants them to personally suffer, but to scare the rich."[3] My presumption is that Google are looking to pry those people who can afford a new (and presumably less-ad-saturated) device or (more likely) service off Android TV and onto their alternative offerings. I'm hoping this backfires via defections to other vendors, outright abandonment, and/or regulatory sanction. Though my expectations for all of these responses are low based on prior experience. ________________________________ Notes: 1. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-schmidt-google-creepy_n_748915 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-schmidt-google-creepy_n_... (2010-10-4) 2. Bill Gates in 1998: "[A]s long as they’re going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-09-fi-micropiracy9-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-09-fi-micro... (2009-4-6) See also Jeff Raikes "If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it ti be us rather than somebody else" https://www.informationweek.com/if-youre-going-to-steal-software-steal-from-us-microsoft-exec/d/d-id/1052865?cid=rssfeed_iwk_all https://www.informationweek.com/if-youre-going-to-steal-soft... (2007-3-12) 3. I don't have the original 1849 source, though this particular translation appears in a now-purged Inc. post by Bill Murphy Jr.: https://web.archive.org/web/20180307183620/https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-does-air-travel-suck-so-bad-this-19th-century-economist-explained-it-with-ju.html https://web.archive.org/web/20180307183620/https://www.inc.c... Based on dates and Dupuit's publication listing, this is probably found in De l’influence des peages sur 1’utilité des voies de communication.
dave_walko 5y ago
So here is the fix for nvidia... I just did this and it works: 1. Go to Settings (the cog at the top right) 2. Click Apps 3. Click See all apps 4. Scroll to the bottom of the list - click Show system apps 5. Scroll down and click Google Play Services 6. Click Force Stop 7. Click Disable 8. Click Clear Cache 9. reboot 10. go back and uninstall google play updates 11. make sure apps are not set to auto update

709 points by pizza 5y ago

Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook - we power their abuses with our money. Just stop buying their trash. Support open hardware, free and open source software.

jsilence 5y ago
Like the otter box for example: https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/you-otter-be-able-to-stream-that-audio-open-hardware-eclipses-chromecast-audio/ https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/you-otter-be-able-to-stream-...
cf100clunk 5y ago
People bought devices that did not show the ads. Now Google has forced those ads onto those devices. So, hindsight being 20/20, this is yet another abuse.
- LegitShady 5y ago
  You're not wrong, but what should be the narrative to any future devices like this is: "They change it after selling it to you for the worse, don't buy their products." When that becomes the reputation the problem will solve itself when they stop selling them from bad reputation.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago
    It's still vandalistic destruction of property Google doesn't own. Google and their hardware partners owe refunds to all these customers.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      I'm sympathetic to the idea that there are implicit expectations during a purchase that shouldn't ideally be violated. But I'm curious if you truly believe this, or if it's just hyperbole. In this "fully my property, not a service I'm using" framework, would an update that patches a security vulnerability be "altruism"? Would refusal on Google's part to patch vulnerabilities be a completely acceptable refusal to futz with someone's property? This is a serious question; my perspective is that "I thought I was buying unchanging property" is disingenuous unless you're similarly surprised by app updates and maintenance (let alone feature development). The expectation of these updates makes it pretty clear to me that this resembles a service more than a static product that Google has ability to "vandalize" (or responsibility to maintain).
      - fartcannon 5y ago
        They should be legally required to supply security patches and legally required not to reduce the functionality of the device. If they can't do that, then they need to stay out of the space.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    And how much billions is the marketing budget to get that narrative successful ? /s
    - LegitShady 5y ago
      mostly memes
- swebs 5y ago
  After a certain point, you have to start noticing patterns.
afavour 5y ago
Very difficult to do when it comes to entertainment. Almost all streaming services have locked down DRM that makes running open source software very difficult. (I know someone will say “just pirate it then!” but even putting moral obligations aside that’s still not realistic for the average viewer)
- wyager 5y ago
  I don’t believe there is any coherent moral argument against piracy in the face of such hostile tactics from media companies.
  - afavour 5y ago
    Of course there is. Pirating streaming media isn’t like stealing bread to feed your starving family, it’s entirely optional. If you don’t agree with the terms of service (i.e. DRM) then don’t use the service. Deciding on your own terms of service is just entitlement. I personally don’t care either way but you can’t say there is no argument against it.
    - wyager 5y ago
      Stealing bread actually deprives someone else of a scarce resource, but the marginal cost of making a digital copy of a TV show is ~zero. So you’re right - it is quite different. Stealing bread is much worse than copying a digital file.
      - sosborn 5y ago
        Stealing bread to feed your family when the alternative is starving is not the same as watching Game of Thrones.
        fwn 5y ago
        You both argue around the question: how does the unlicensed reproduction of media morally compare to stealing. Argument 1: Sufficiently severe benefits should mitigate the moral fault in theft. Argument 2: Sufficiently small damage should mitigate the moral fault in theft. You both seem to at least implicitly agree that both is theft, which would be a traditional point of disagreement in the debate. I commented because I think one and two might be structurally the same argument: It's a consequentialist idea of utility thresholds. A key disagreement would be whether there are thresholds that make the quantitative difference in utility a qualitative difference. Think hunger on one side and unquantifiable small loss in profits on the other side.
arnaudsm 5y ago
Kodi+Jellyfin is amazing, I'll never use closed source stuff on my TV again.
stiltzkin 5y ago
Talking specifically of TV experience the Shield has been the best streaming device on the market. Working out of the box and putting away the tinkering and manual config of the common HTPC. NVIDIA has brought updates and support to old Shield devices with the almost same support as Apple devices. It is disappointing NVIDIA does not own their own OS as Apple and Shield loyal users are affected of Google anti-consumer behaviour.

herbst 5y ago

Android TV is a surprisingly bad system anyway. Barely apps, I can access maybe 100 games from my TV. The far majority absolute, and filled, trash games. I suddenly found myself locked out of thousands of things I used to watch because the browser, if even enable-able, sucks and so many sites/services have no interest in having an app. Owning a TV still feels like a step down for me, since I was used just streaming on my computer. Without the kodi app I would see no reason to recommend a android smart TV over any cheap TV and a small Kodi box.

cf100clunk 5y ago
The entire Android TV experience is one of constant tweaking of F-Droid, Aurora Store, and Bromite System Webview app updates with upstream adblocking, firewalling, and rooting in an attempt to stymie this sort of crap from Google and other big, bad corporations. I ditched all of that and now run Libreelec (Kodi) on a Pi4.
wlesieutre 5y ago
My parents have an Android TV and often have to reboot it to for the internet connection to work. Makes all the streaming apps a pain to use.
- herbst 5y ago
  I don't think that's specific to android tho. I got a Xiaomi one explicitly because they have good WiFi chips. This was one of my main worries, and I never had issues so far
  - yorwba 5y ago
    How do you find out which ones have good WiFi chips?
    - herbst 5y ago
      I honestly don't know. Thing is I have had Xiaomi devices before, and they are my only smart devices that do not have connection issues (for me) and work in my back garden. My new Xiaomi phone is the only of our phones that streams in hd in my backyard. So yeah just personal experience and bad experiences with things like Samsung

cf100clunk 5y ago

Upstream ad blocking may help, but will the screen space still be taken up?

hashworks 5y ago
Yes. It falls back to build in ads for standard apps like YouTube or Google Movies.

designium 5y ago

I suggest using an old laptop or desktop and install Kodi or Plex to solve for this.

herbst 5y ago
Kodi also works surprisingly well as Android app :) sorrily way snappier than on the RPI (v4, 8gb ram I think) that was explicitly recommended from the kodi website :/
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  Which do we value more, speed of the UI or susceptibility to undesireable change? Libreelec (Kodi) on Pi4 skews away from the latter.
  - herbst 5y ago
    I have Kodi on my cheap android TV which performs much faster than on my pi. So I prefer that. My RPI even crashes from time to time, even thought it has active cooling. Elec just can turn into a resource hog, especially if you switch between apps often. I am just still pissed that I spent $150 on a pi with case for elec when it obviously isn't the optimal device. And want others to avoid the problem :) As said somewhere else, calling home issues are just a question of your firewall / DNS setup
    - ridiculous_leke 5y ago
      Which version of RPI is that?
      - herbst 5y ago
        The most recent 5 months ago. So v4 I guess, the biggest that still supports 32bit Linux which afaik is the 8gb version. There was only one more expensive.
hughrr 5y ago

Ansil849 5y ago

The way to combat this is not to buy products that have this and then complain about them. The companies that make them do not care, they have already gotten your money. The way to combat this is to not buy products that have this in the first place. edit: a lot of comments are saying that the ads were added later, after purchase. This doesn't change my opinion at all, because people still bought products that have the capability for ads to be added retroactively. That is on you. If you don't like the option of it happening, and as this example illustrates it can clearly happen, then do not buy products that have the capability of having ads added retroactively to the product.

dkdbejwi383 5y ago
How do you propose people don’t buy products that have ads added to them in the future?
- Ansil849 5y ago
  It's very straightforward: do not buy products that have the capability to have ads added to them retroactively. There is zero way any of the three televisions in my house will have ads added to them unless someone physically comes into my home and replaces the television sets.
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    I was looking for dumb tvs a little bit ago and it's quite hard to find. Every company wants to turn their hardware sale into an eternal revenue stream.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      They are not hard to find at all. Sure it's more 'difficult' than searching for 'TV' on Amazon, but if you spend ten minutes doing a web search, you will find some brands. Here's one site to get you started: https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/
    - 5y ago

temp8964 5y ago

I hated FireTV exactly because of the ads. Now I am using Roku comes with the TV. Roku has ad too, but not overwhelming. In the future, maybe the only choice is no-brand Android TV box/ stick which has ads removed.

pixxel 5y ago
PiHole to remove those Roku ads! I have PiHole running on a five dollar Pi Zero. Just sits on a shelf doing its thing on all devices connected to network.
- temp8964 5y ago
  Does it leave a blank space on the home screen? I feel I am fine with the Roku ad in a rectangle box on the side of the home screen.
  - pixxel 5y ago
    Yes it leaves a blank space where ads would otherwise show.
- djrogers 5y ago
  > running on a five dollar Pi Zero. While technically accurate, you also need a $10 SD card, a $3 usb cable, and a $5-10 power brick, so you’re really looking at a $25 solution here.
  - temp8964 5y ago
    I guess SD cards and USB cable don't count, because we all have some extra here and there? I never use SD cards, but I have at least four of them in my drawer...
- AshamedCaptain 5y ago
  PiHole and similar ad-filtering proxies are a very fragile solution. The moment Google just decides to stream ads through the same domain as the "regular" content (e.g. updates, Play Store, etc.), what exactly is the PiHole going to do? This is not a "cat and mouse" game, like in-browser ad-blockers where the advertisers change something then the ad-blockers try to catch that. The in-browser ad-blockers have a lot more flexibility with blocking content since they are, basically, the consumer of that content. With PiHole, there is a point in which PiHole can just DO. NOTHING. to block content. If Google TV fetches its ads/spyware from playstore.google.com (for example), and uses https, what can PiHole do? Not even MitM, because Google will just pin the certificate. And let's not even get started on DNS-over-HTTPS... PiHole and the like are not long-term solutions.

NietTim 5y ago

If history has taught us anything: this will blow over in a few weeks or months and everyone will get used to it in the end. The small percentage of users who (sometimes only temporarily) stop using the service is offset by the new income and the majority of users do not care.

alisonkisk 5y ago
It's not a service like a subscription. It's the driver for a suite of hardware products that Google intentionally broke after the return window.
cf100clunk 5y ago
History teaches us that HN readers are generally quite caring of these sort of intrusions into their previous "just right" setups and don't tend to just let it ride.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Keyword “HN Readers”, not users. I’d be surprised if even 1% of all Android TV users were HN Readers.
  - cf100clunk 5y ago
    That misconstrues my comment: I believe that HN readers (and users) care about topics like this over the long haul and don't tend to just let intrusions like Google's slide by without opprobrium. Thus, to me, the parent comment doesn't wash.
  - axlee 5y ago
    > I’d be surprised if even 1% of all Android TV users were HN Readers. Remove some magnitudes, and then some more.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Yep, 16 new libreelec installs will appear, and thousands of google tvs will be sold in the meantime.

alisonkisk 5y ago

Interesting but why now? Based on the dates, this change came in April? Or did people update old reviews but keep the old timestamp?

pizza 5y ago
I posted it just now bc I just came across this today (have an nvidia shield but haven't had a chance to use it in a few months)

alibert 5y ago

The new launcher got force push on my Nvidia Shield (app store update is to manual).

goda90 5y ago
I saw Reddit comments saying the ad feature has been in the launcher for quite a few versions and was just turned on from their servers.

jmacd 5y ago

The new Apple TV 4K is a absolutely better than any of the high end android tv devices. I’ve been through them all (at considerable expense) and am now totally happy on the new apple tv

rattray 5y ago
Would use of an Android phone have any cause for frustration with an Apple TV? I'd assume not but I've never used one.
- tmpz22 5y ago
  If it’s like the older Apple TV’s no. It comes with its own remote, the only iPhone integration is that your phone becomes an extra remote should the original be lost or broken
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    It works with a lot of TV remotes, I rarely use the Apple one.
- callahanrts 5y ago
  You won't be able to use your phone as a remote, or to enter passwords, but other than that, there would be no frustration.
- auggierose 5y ago
  I guess you would not be able to stream your display to the Apple TV, and you would not be able to use your phone for keyboard input, and probably more. Just get an iPhone already!
- setpatchaddress 5y ago
  No, Apple TV doesn't require any other Apple devices. It will prompt you for an iCloud account during setup, but you can create a free one or just not have one.
- banana_giraffe 5y ago

ArkanExplorer 5y ago

Does this also impact Android TVs? Like Sony models, etc.

mortenjorck 5y ago
I want to know this as well. I’m considering another Sony for my next TV (I currently have a pre-Android model), but if this update affects the Sony UI, that immediately strikes them from the list.

skummetmaelk 5y ago

Well I guess I had been putting off setting up that pi-hole for too long anyway.

herbst 5y ago
I feel scared opening the web outside of my home these days. Seriously what even is that thing people used to call internet!? In all seriousness running that pi-hole is power and hardware perfectly well spent. And you literally start saving time

cs702 5y ago

Where does the "ad invasion" end? Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Smart windows that display ads that block your view of your backyard? Smart paints that display ads on your bedroom walls? Smart shower-heads that play jingles as you wash yourself? Smart brain implants that directly induce subconscious desire to buy certain products and services? Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right to advertise?

Ansil849 5y ago
It will never end so long as consumers will keep buying the products. In other words, it will never end, period.
ne0flex 5y ago
There was one startup that I met a few years ago that focused on enabling IoT on 'dumb' devices. Their first product some sort of plug for ceiling fans that allowed people to turn on & off / control the ceiling fan with their smartphone. The product also required a $5/month subscription service. I remember asking the CEO why would someone pay $5/month just to control their fan and he basically responded that the idea seems ludicrous and this point in time, but eventually people will catch on, and then he made an allusion to Microsoft Office and how that it's becoming a subscription product despite initially being one-off purchase 15 years ago.
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  I think you're overestimating the degree to which useless subscriptions are sustainable. I just moved and am about to purchase something identical to what you're describing[1], and it's a one-time purchase, as expected. [1] https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451 https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451
  - yccs27 5y ago
    Are you sure it will stay a one-time purchase? Given the post topic, your confidence seems ironic. In a few years' time, you might start seeing ads in the associated app...

scrollaway 5y ago

Question to HN users: I have a dumb display attached to an nvidia shield. The Shield is nice: It's powerful enough, runs decent version of the common apps I care about (netflix, plex, youtube, spotify are the ones I use), and the remote is minimalistic and nice to use. Let's say I want to opt out of Google for this. What the hell do I do? I do have a Windows PC attached to the TV, for gaming, but if I wanted to run the apps above they wouldn't be optimized for TV input, they'd be cumbersome to use. Attaching a Linux box isn't going to work particularly well for gaming either. Seriously, what are the alternatives there?

cf100clunk 5y ago
That's a great Ask HN question actually, as opposed to a comment here.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Fair point. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27644017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27644017
tguvot 5y ago
you can replace launcher on shield
syntaxing 5y ago
Not being snarky but an Apple TV
- scrollaway 5y ago
  I briefly considered it. I've been entirely out of the Apple ecosystem so far (save for airpods). It sounds like Apple is gaining traction over time because the competition keeps getting worse and worse. I'm frankly not sure opting into Apple is a solution to the problem at large. It might be a temporary fix, but at the end of the day you're still using a proprietary system which might decide that ads are lucrative tomorrow.
- 5y ago

matthewrobertso 5y ago

I ran into this last week on my nvidia shield. Here's a summary of the workaround I found (apologies for not having the specific package names offhand): 1. Install a new launcher from play store (I found one called "Basic Launcher" that matches the aesthetics of the default one). This doesn't solve the problem though, because Google disabled changing the default launcher for some user hostile reason, until you delete the existing launcher. 2. Enable development mode by tapping on the build number in settings 3. Connect an adb shell to your device 4. Remove the built in launcher 5. Reboot, select basic launcher when prompted I own a few android TV devices, have recommended them to people in the past, and won't be purchasing another. I think what happened here should be illegal and shame on whoever worked on this.

wccrawford 5y ago
At first, I thought nVidia had done this, and I was cursing their name. After some searching, I discovered this is actually the stock launcher from Google instead. nVidia should absolutely get ahead of this to preserve their own reputation.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  That's Nvidia's choice to use default launcher. It's not like Google does not allow their partners to adapt OS. I agree about blaming Google first, but it's device from Nvidia, customer will not research where each particular application or part came from. If battery will blow up, nobody will blame some nameless chinese factory.
  - brewdad 5y ago
    I absolutely blame Nvidia for this. I fully expect ads on my $25 Fire Stick. It's part of the bargain with Amazon. There is no way there should be ads on a $150-200 device, especially when they have been added in well after purchase. Regardless of where they choose to lay blame, if Nvidia doesn't fix this I am done with their devices when it's time to replace them.

implying 5y ago

For frustrated HN users, I have managed to remove the ads by uninstalling all updates to android home, disabling "TV core services" and "Google Play Services". You'll also need to disable automatic updates in the play store. This won't let you sign into Google apps anymore, but most major apps work fine after a reboot.

cf100clunk 5y ago
Great info - an alternative to Google Store is Aurora Store, which allows most apps to update anonymously.

andrefuchs 5y ago

Any suggestions for an Ad Blocker or different Android TV launcher?

techlaw 5y ago

I am hopeful that now that the FTC has a pro-consumer Chair that some of these anti-consumer acts will be curtailed. I would also argue that some of these bad acts could be considered to be false / deceptive trade practices under the various state laws (in the U.S. at least). For example, some people would never have bought a FireTV cube for streaming video if Amazon had revealed that they would be adding advertisements to the consumer's video-viewing experience. But: how much incentive is there for individuals to file a small claims suit against Amazon for a $79 device? Generally speaking you might get treble damages but not much more unless you've had actual damages. And although class action suits are frustrating and should be "fixed" so that those harmed get the bulk of the proceeds (i.e. it's not okay that consumers receive discount coupons or $10 checks while plaintiff's counsel receives a disproportionally huge payday) this is one thing we've lost by generally not allowing class actions. David v. Goliath is not as effective as 15,000 Davids v. Goliath. Not to even mention the mandatory arbitration imposed on consumers (which do sometimes carve out the ability to file in small claims court). We have cultivated, or at least allowed, a very anti-consumer bias to take hold in U.S. law.

yellowfish 5y ago
there's nothing wrong with ads on stuff like this; televisions aren't sacred ground.
- simonh 5y ago
  There's nothing wrong with it, if you are told about this up front and it's part of your purchasing calculation. Retroactively adding ads to an ad-free device after the customer has purchased it, sometimes buying it specifically to avoid competing devices with ads, is inexcusable bullshit.
  - shmolf 5y ago
    If you subscribe to cable/satellite television, you expect there to be advertising. I'm not certain, but i suspect the agreement you sign while signing up for cable or streaming services, would include some sort of advertising clause. Ie, u less a service explicitly promotes am ad-free experience, there should be no expectations of such.

enos_feedler 5y ago

Time for Apple to start taking tvOS seriously. There is a lot of advertising revenue for Apple to capture that doesn’t involve plastering ads everywhere. Just think about live sports intermissins.

echelon 5y ago
Apple is just another domineering company that takes our computing rights away. I don't want them at the helm, either.

sneak 5y ago

I once asked an Alexa device in my kitchen for a unit conversion or the weather or something. It responded as it always had, then advertised something after the response, some new Amazon feature I didn't care about. I calmly but immediately ripped it out of the wall and spiked it hard into the tile floor, where it shattered into pieces. It went out with the garbage that day. Vote with your eyeballs. Smash that shit to pieces and never buy anything that says Google or Android on it ever again.

teamspirit 5y ago

So I have a shield and have yet to check, but with the new Chromecast with Google TV there is an option in the settings to switch to Apps Mode(I'm pretty sure that's what it's called). This gives you the shield look with only your apps and zero "suggestions" (which are somehow always for shows and movies on services you don't have). I hope the shield has something similar.

teamspirit 5y ago
I'm not sure how to edit comments on a Materialistic but I found the link for cc w/gtv: https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10070784?hl=en https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10070784?hl=en
Jackdanie1s 5y ago
This mode deactivates voice control which is useful for input rather than manual on screen typing.

dwighttk 5y ago

Side note: Not really ads, but kinda ads. I wish Apple TV would let me hide shows they are pushing.

rootusrootus 5y ago
Kinda related, but I feel similarly about Apple News+. It's a handy interface for an overview of the news, but they push subscription options. I want to be able to configure it to just not show me the pay-even-more options. And to exclude certain news outlets altogether. At best you can choose to hide a news provider, but they don't really go away -- it just shows you a black box where the story would be, along with a note that you've blocked them, and a button to show it anyway. Sigh.
- syncdk 5y ago
  I think Apple News is the only Apple made app that shows inline interest based adds. Annoyingly they still show them even if you pay for the News+ subscription.
pkamb 5y ago
Just don't use the "Apple TV" app on your Apple TV hardware? Make the Home button go to the App screen. https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/set-the-tv-button-atvbe7706127/tvos https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/set-the-tv-button-atvbe77...

HumblyTossed 5y ago

I have a Shield TV and I really despise this change. I bought a device that did NOT show ads on the home screen, now it does. How is that not... it just should NOT be allowed. Show me ads in YouTube, show me ads in whatever other app, but not my home screen. There's a difference. The home screen is MINE, not Google's.

theturtletalks 5y ago
Google will chock this up to "staying" competitive. The Fire TV and Samsung Smart TVs have had ads on the menu for a while now. Ads on the home screen takes it further. If this was nipped in the bud, it would not have made it this far. People are slowly realizing these commissions don't care about consumers, just making it seem they do.
chimen 5y ago
https://imgflip.com/i/5emx6j https://imgflip.com/i/5emx6j
utopiah 5y ago
> The home screen is MINE, not Google's. Android is owned by Alphabet (or Google if you prefer) and you decided to buy a device that runs their OS with their services that are not open source. You probably didn't even pay for the OS. What makes you think it is yours?
- HenryKissinger 5y ago
  TIL I should create my own operating system from scratch if I don't want advertisements on my smart television. And people wonder why Congress wants to break up FAANG
- eitland 5y ago
  > What makes you think it is yours? That we paid for it in the store? Nowhere did it say "free OS included" so it is entirely reasonable to think that some of the price was for the included OS and software at the time which has now been substantially degraded.

IanCal 5y ago

On the Nvidia shield, it's also just generally broken. Such absolutely basic easily reached things don't work. I've never experienced such a regularly broken bit of software. It's good enough that I prefer it over anything else I've tried bit my god I wish they'd leave features and make it work reliably. And now ads. We just removed all app channels so my son doesn't see ads as sometimes they'd be scary. Now he can see things he won't be able to watch. For fucks sake Google.

vishnugupta 5y ago

These days, it's difficult (almost impossible) find a dumb large TV in India. So I bought next best thing, a non-Google smart TV[1]. The UI is snappy. Soon I plan to hook it up with Apple TV. [1] https://www.flipkart.com/philips-6600-146-cm-58-inch-ultra-hd-4k-led-smart-tv/p/itm6ea45241c2c0a https://www.flipkart.com/philips-6600-146-cm-58-inch-ultra-h...

meibo 5y ago

I use a DNS-level adblocker and was wondering what those black blocks on the home screen were supposed to be. Should've guessed it was ads.

sackerhews 5y ago
Wanna bet how long until they start using own API for DNS lookup? I say 2 years. Stakes are 1 karma point.

mongol 5y ago

I can't see the reviews, probably because I am in a European country. What do they say?

sbarre 5y ago
They are all negative 1-star reviews complaining about a new giant banner that takes up a third of the home screen. Google did the same thing to the iOS YouTube app recently.

k4ch0w 5y ago

LG WebOs does the same thing. I haven’t accepted the eula and stream from my Apple TV. However, a friend of mines wife did and now he has ads everywhere on it. I don’t understand how this is so normalized? You actively have to work in order to block ads and trackers today. Its getting harder everyday. It’s so sad we have some of our worlds best engineers working on how to send ads to people. Our priorities are whack.

benhurmarcel 5y ago
Samsung's TV also put ads in the menu. I blocked them using Nextdns, at least that still works.

phreack 5y ago

Wow, great timing. I was days away from buying a Shield, but I get irrationally mad when forced to see ads. I won't now, even if there's hacky workarounds.

jonahbenton 5y ago

Was deeply frustrated last year when it became clear in the US market at least that dumb TVs no longer exist, not unless one wants to pay the 4x premium for buying a gaming monitor and using it as a TV. Decided to buy an Android TV, one that would not need a network connection on the Android side for HDMI input mode to work, and just keep a computer plugged into it. Lack of sensible remote control is annoying. But forced ads are infuriating.

easton 5y ago
From an older comment I made: Find the hospitality version of whatever you want from CDW (Samsung and LG do a lot of them, idk about Sony). They are designed for hotels and hospitals, and have the same picture quality but no smart stuff. An example from Samsung: https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-led-hospitality-tv/5364487 https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-le...
- deadbunny 5y ago
  Thanks for the tip

donohoe 5y ago

Roku started doing this (though seems less intrusive so far than this) and its why I ditched it for an AppleTV. My big fear is that Apple will do the same in years to come but for now it is all we have.

vlozko 5y ago
They haven’t done so for 14 years. Given their posturing on privacy and their history, it stands to reason it’ll still be like this for another decade at least.
rootusrootus 5y ago
I'm hoping they have some idea that a chunk of their obscene levels of wealth comes from attracting customers who will opt for their garden to avoid the crap providers that push ads.

tpmx 5y ago

F*ck, I just bought an expensive Android-based Sony TV.

turbohz 5y ago
I got one for many years, haven't seen any ads ever. EDIT: wait, what ads are they talking about? OK, I see suggestions of Disney+ shows, and I don't have neither a subscription nor the app installed
- tpmx 5y ago
  https://www.whathifi.com/news/old-sony-tvs-are-about-to-get-a-new-android-tv-interface https://www.whathifi.com/news/old-sony-tvs-are-about-to-get-... (I bought an X950H, as it's known in the US.)
- deadbunny 5y ago
  Probably because your TV isnt getting updates anymore. Great news, no ads for you. Bad news, your TV isnt being patched anymore despite being perfectly usable for another 10 years...

lousken 5y ago

i don't see any in my language but the ratings are quite telling https://i.imgur.com/PGmoD33.png https://i.imgur.com/PGmoD33.png

hashworks 5y ago

As an alternative to a different launcher you can block the domain responsible for the ads [0] in your DNS resolver. The Launcher will then fallback to less intrusive "ads" for the standard apps: YouTube, Google Play, Google Movies, etc. I've added it to the adaway.org list [1], so it might find its way into blocklists you are already using soon. [0] androidtvwatsonfe-pa.googleapis.com [1] https://github.com/AdAway/adaway.github.io/pull/261 https://github.com/AdAway/adaway.github.io/pull/261

deanclatworthy 5y ago
Same approach for Samsung TVs. In fact nextdns has an option for Samsung ads explicitly so just enable that and point the TVs DNS to that. I presume this could be added to nextdns too with a custom url block.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

The one thing I like about Google's now many-years obsolete "do no evil" slogan is that it shows how it is impossible for companies to not eventually become "evil" once that's their only open easy revenue stream. Without debating what "evil" really means in this context, in the early days of a company there are plenty of ways to grow without being actively user hostile. Once those avenues are thoroughly maxed out, any company that is basically only measured by growth (i.e. every public company) will have to slide more and more into things that only boost revenue to the detriment of users. I mean, this change is so blatantly abusive and user hostile, and something that never would have been greenlit in, say, the 00s, just shows how far Google has decayed.

lostlogin 5y ago
> it is impossible for companies to not eventually become "evil" once that's their only open easy revenue stream. Google doesn’t lack revenue streams, it just wants to maximise all of them ans make new ones. It’s the constant desire for growth and the mantra that ‘standing still is going baxkwards’ that I find repulsive.
Nextgrid 5y ago
> Once those avenues are thoroughly maxed out, any company that is basically only measured by growth […] will have to slide more and more into things that only boost revenue to the detriment of users. In this case, the law or regulation is supposed to step in. The problem is that the law pretty much stopped advancing when it comes to the digital world, at least when it benefits the consumer.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  The law is advancing at it's usual pace. Some highlights include the Magna Carta in 1215, the Constitution in 1787, the Emancipation in 1863, the 19th Amendment in 1920, the Civil Rights Act of 1964...if anything, progress is happening more quickly now than ever. It's just that culture/society/law change far slower than technology. Most US Senators are over 65, with associated world-views and educations more than half a century old. A quarter century ago, neither smart TVs, targeted ads, nor Google itself existed. Children today are warned about Internet tracking tools, privacy management, they're aware of the creepy omnipresent big brother nature of tech, perhaps in 2080 Congress will be ready to address these issues.

Bud 5y ago

It's astonishing to me that anyone who bought an Android or Google-centric TV product of any kind would expect anything other than that. They exist to track you and sell you ads. Period, paragraph. This is their business model. Accept it, or buy Apple TV plus a dumb TV (or a stupid "smart" TV with all network features permanently disabled). Those are the only options.

poidos 5y ago
Sharing what I learned trying to find a dumb TV: It appears that the two main options for 4K, non-networked TVs are 'business-grade' panels (e.g. [0]) and Sceptre[1], which are always out of stock. I haven't bought either yet (my dumb 1080p panel was working just fine until this week,) but I am planning on upgrading soon. [0]: https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays [1]: https://www.sceptre.com/ https://www.sceptre.com/
- nfoz 5y ago
  There have been prior threads on HN about dumb tvs with several options. The LG "Commercial Lite" (for Business) series has some non-smart options, at least in Canada. It was just a few years ago I got my 55" 4k LG dumb tv for $1000 CAD and it's great. Though the market may have changed somewhat. Good luck

joshuaheard 5y ago

Tivo started running ads in its (subscription fee) service. It only takes up a single slot in the guide, but there are 3 in every screen. I called and complained, but what can you do. I stopped using Comcast box because of the intrusive ads. I fear this will be the future of streaming interfaces.

crisdux 5y ago

This reminds me of an article I read earlier this week in AdExchanger about Amazon's advertising business. https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/the-birds-eye-view-of-amazons-advertising-business/ https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/the-birds-eye... The future is all about video. Brands are paying Amazon top dollar because they can link customers to ads on Fire TV. Amazon is quickly moving into non-ecommerce advertisers, which is where Google shines.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

Who made these decisions, who worked on the implementation, who launched it? Would they have agreed to it if they were not anonymous? Would they have agreed on it if they were in a union?

balozi 5y ago
Management, product designers, devs, everyone - including the customers whose ads you are seeing. They are all in it together, making money. Union or no union.
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  What are the names of the manager, product designer, engineers who worked on this? I am speaking about the influence of anonymity in making and executing on user-hostile decisions.

yumraj 5y ago

This is great news for Apple TV. People who bought the nvidia shield, like me, were looking for a powerful device that was clean of ads. Now there is only one left.

varispeed 5y ago

I wanted to use Samsung Health app but it now only runs if I add permission to make phone calls. They changed it under guise of adding 2-factor auth, but the small print reads that they want my phone number so that my friends can discover me. This is just a disgrace. They should not be allowed to change phone features after purchase.

yumraj 5y ago

Does anyone know if pi-hole blocks these ads or is the dns hardcoded in these? Looks like I lucked out, my older Nvidia shield had not updated yet, it was downloaded Nvidia Experience 8.2.3 - so I just went and disabled auto-update.

Shadonototro 5y ago

people are surprised? wait until you purchase a premium smart TV ;) that shit should be illegal

josteink 5y ago

This is just a gentle reminder that as long as you’re happy to buy into walled gardens, the devices you buy are not truly yours. You’re merely in possession of them, with others allowed to set the rules. As an AppleTV user I could be totally smug about this, but there’s nothing stopping Apple from making a similar move if they wanted to, and I wouldn’t have jack shit to say about it. I’ve tried more open options and they all suck, but I hope one day there can come an open appliance-platform which at least is usable and supports all the latest standards. Then I might be willing to give it a try.

wly_cdgr 5y ago

The simplest and most productive solution is to throw away your TV as it serves no good purpose

mmind 5y ago

<300 reviews out of 50+ million downloads. Not sure the big deal, people can just use other launchers and the ads are relevant. Chromecast with GTV has had this for a while and people like it because they are relevant.

thih9 5y ago

A bit more general and off topic, I'm recently growing tired of updates in general; both on my phone and on my desktop. Has anyone been able to create a productive and safe environment where updates don't happen that often or don't affect their UX? I'd be interested to hear about such experiences.

MobileVet 5y ago

Seems like a pretty strong case for a Pihole setup. Short of network level fixes or loader swapping, is the best solution a dumb (disconnected TV) and a STB like AppleTV or Roku?

Jolter 5y ago
I’m pretty sure I read upthread that the Roku has ads, too?
- MobileVet 5y ago
  Yea, you are right. I basically included that so I wouldn’t get ripped for shilling for Apple lol.
RototRobot 5y ago
I dont think a Pi-hole would work for this, because google serves the ads from the same location as the content (the same reason pi-hole can't block youtube ads)

adamc 5y ago

No more Nvidia shield recommendations, that's for sure. The execs who made this decision should be punished. They won't be. But I think this has convinced me to move my mail and give up on Google.

highwind 5y ago

If you buy a product from a company where their revenue comes primarily comes from ads, you should expect to see ads on their product.

Jolter 5y ago
Since when do Nvidia products come with that expectation, though?
stiltzkin 5y ago
Many Shield users were expecting NVIDIA disabling ads on the latest update for a $200 streaming device, seems NVIDIA did not care.

heurisko 5y ago

This reminds me of plummeting reviews after Chrome recently introduced tab groups. I hope they revert both highly unpopular decisions. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.chrome https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.ch...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kermire 5y ago
I actually use tab groups. Have been using for a long time and really like having the ability to group tabs. What's the issue with it?
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  They don't have the option to open a link in a new top-level tab, you can only open links in a new tab in the current group.

ris 5y ago

People with no control over the software they run get surprised when it does something they don't like. News at 11.

billyhoffman 5y ago

I hate to be that guy, but this is exactly why I happily paid for an Apple TV. Yes, it’s $100 more than basic streaming sticks, but I have never had to worry about ads suddenly appearing after an update. This whole space is a race to the bottom with sticks being sold at or below cost because you are the product. For example, Vizio revealing in their first quarterly report as a public company that they get nearly as much revenue from selling ads and viewer usage data than from selling physical televisions. https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337.html https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337... A smooth, clean ad-free experience is certainly worth the extra price if you can afford it.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago
Indeed. It's hard to sympathize with people upset about ads when they bought a platform made by an ad company. The outcome was obvious here.
- thiht 5y ago
  I bought a Sony TV, not a Google one. I would have expected Sony to disallow this somehow.
  - josefx 5y ago
    As far as I understand Googles Play Store comes with a viral license that forces preferential treatment for Google services on all Android devices made by a manufacturer unless they are sold in a country where that kind of anti competitive behavior is not tolerated. Basically Sonys choice is let Google rape its customers or kill all its Android based products over night.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  The majority of people on the planet have phones running an OS made by the same ad company, and they'd be rightfully pissed if their home screens were suddenly was dominated by ads.
- frereubu 5y ago

blendergeek 5y ago

My prediction: within a week, Google will delete all the negative reviews.

Schnitz 5y ago

Abandoned the Google ecosystem (Android, Chromecast, etc) this spring after 5+ years for Apple. Never looked back!

thiht 5y ago

I recently bought a 2000€ Sony Bravia which I love, but the update adding ads is atrocious. I paid premium and still get fucking ads, it’s a nightmare! The weirdest thing is that these ads have a political agenda, every day it’s for a new LGBT program. Every. Single. Day. Right now the three ads on the carousel are Pride on Disney+, Turn it Around on myCanal (French cable which I don’t use, I have no idea why I have ads for this one) and another LGBT documentary on France TV (same, I don’t have the app installed so no idea why I get this « recommendation ») Edit: please don't downvote me for stating a fact, I don't emit a judgment of value here. The fact is 100% of the ads I get are flagged as LGBT, which IS weird. It's not the only subject to discuss, and not one I personally care a lot about. I could get ads for documentaries on economy, animals, food, tons of topics, but I just get LGBT. Maybe it's not your experience, but it is mine.

csunbird 5y ago
The ads are just the companies virtue signaling.
LordDragonfang 5y ago
>these ads have a political agenda, every day it’s for a new LGBT program >I don't emit a judgment of value here It's Pride month, and today is literally the anniversary of Stonewall. Explicitly calling saying that any content even featuring LGBT people "has a political agenda" is a value judgement, implying you think the mere existence of a minority sexual identity in content is a political statement. You wouldn't call the service advertising heterosexual romance before Valentine's day a "political statement" (and probably wouldn't think twice about it), so it's prejudicial to claim the different for LGBT content during pride.
- thiht 5y ago
  > It's Pride month, and today is literally the anniversary of Stonewall And not living in the US, I have no idea what Stonewall is nor that it's Pride month, nor even that Pride month is a thing (is it in France too?) > implying you think the mere existence of a minority sexual identity in content is a political statement No, I think recommending this and only this is a political statement. > so it's prejudicial to claim the different for LGBT content during pride It's literally written "LGBT" in the 1 line description of the ads I have.

mderazon 5y ago

Does it help if you have ad blocker on the dns level like NextDNS ?

nullify88 5y ago

I own a Shield and I've yet to see an ad on the home screen. I'm up to date and logged in with Google but not Nvidia. Anyone else in Europe getting adverts?

rdiddly 5y ago

Shitty old DVDs from Goodwill are looking better all the time!

MikusR 5y ago
With un-skippable intros and trailers.

arminiusreturns 5y ago

Advertisers are ruining the internet, how can we take them down a collective peg or ten? Congress is bought and paid for on both sides of the isle, so if you wanna address issues like this, you have to fix congress first, and the two parties are too far gone to ever be correctable. Its time for a radical shift away from party politics... if you want solutions that is.

supermatt 5y ago

I bought an Nvidia Shield Pro 4k in Jan 2020. I just got off chat with amazon UK, who have amazingly decided to process a refund for the device. I'll be buying an apple TV.

Shido 5y ago

I hate the idea of ads just like any other person however how else companies profit without it or creating a paid subscription to remove ads for so much a month/year? As I see it you pay for the product not the service.

Latty 5y ago
Then sell the product with ads and let people decide if they want to buy it with them or get something else. Don't sell someone hardware that operates seemingly without ads, then foist them on the user after-the-fact.
stiltzkin 5y ago
People paid for a $200 streaming device with a stock Android TV with basic launcher, NVIDIA failed allowing the stock Google launcher and not adding their own without ads.

bitL 5y ago

Is Google anticipating going bankrupt?

marinhero 5y ago

Can this be disabled via Pi-Hole?

temac 5y ago

Why people thought Google would suddenly stop being an advertisement company? (And pivot to what exactly overnight?) That's both in their DNA and still their overwhelming largest business. Of course don't buy a "smart" TV (that would probably be described more accurately as an "idiotic not-maintained-a-lot-IOT TV with more heavy planned obsolescence than usual"), but if you do, of course stay away from Google.

Softcadbury 5y ago

I wonder, does the hardware makers have a word to say about it ? Do they get a cut ? As I see it, it can impact sales (just look at how many times the shield is mention here)

awill 5y ago

It's getting harder and harder to not switch to Apple for both a premium phone and a premium digital media player. I've always had a Pixel phone, and (since 2015), the Shield TV Pro. It seems like Google is actively trying to lose. They didn't make a premium Pixel last year, and they've never made a premium digital media player. Rather than being grateful for Nvidia building the premium device they couldn't, they're actively ruining it. I get having ads on a >$50 device, but not on the $200 Shield TV. Who's running things at Google?

EastSmith 5y ago

Putting an old (5y, i5, 8gb) half broken laptop behind the TV was the best personal technical decision I've made ever. Super easy TV and Web. Also Games (streaming) once a good kb and mouse are set.

hsaliak 5y ago

Cant be easy for Nvidia. Stock Android experience is supposedly clean and simple, and vendor specific extensions just clutter. Now imagine their user base getting screwed over by an update they probably were only informed of.

stiltzkin 5y ago

What it is more disgusting are the obvious shilling that favors this ads intrusion. I invite you have a look on Reddit /r/ShieldAndroidTV/

olliej 5y ago

Google is fundamentally an advertising company, that’s why I don’t use any of their services and certainly would never pay for a product from them, because this is their M.O

dredmorbius 5y ago

Some years back, Google's then CEO Eric Schmidt openly stated that "The Google policy on a lot of things is to get right up to the creepy line and not cross it."[1] It is also (as has been the case with numerous other tech firms) been to take other experiences, here maximal ad saturation, straight up to the pain tolerance, before (one presumes) dialing it down a bit. (Facebook have similarly done this repeatedly with surveillance, stalking, and dark patterns, Microsoft formerly did this with licensing fee and process requirements, the latter limited by the tendency to drive users to either piracy or, vastly worse in Microsoft's view,[2] Linux or Free Software alternatives.) The rationale is effectively the same as that captured by Jules Dupuit's 19th century observation on the miserable quality of third-class rail service: It is not because of the several thousand francs which they would have to spend to cover the third class wagons or to upholster the benches. ... [I]t would happily sacrifice this [expense] for the sake of its popularity. Its goal is to stop the traveler who can pay for the second class trip from going third class. It hurts the poor not because it wants them to personally suffer, but to scare the rich."[3] My presumption is that Google are looking to pry those people who can afford a new (and presumably less-ad-saturated) device or (more likely) service off Android TV and onto their alternative offerings. I'm hoping this backfires via defections to other vendors, outright abandonment, and/or regulatory sanction. Though my expectations for all of these responses are low based on prior experience. ________________________________ Notes: 1. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-schmidt-google-creepy_n_748915 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-schmidt-google-creepy_n_... (2010-10-4) 2. Bill Gates in 1998: "[A]s long as they’re going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-09-fi-micropiracy9-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-09-fi-micro... (2009-4-6) See also Jeff Raikes "If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it ti be us rather than somebody else" https://www.informationweek.com/if-youre-going-to-steal-software-steal-from-us-microsoft-exec/d/d-id/1052865?cid=rssfeed_iwk_all https://www.informationweek.com/if-youre-going-to-steal-soft... (2007-3-12) 3. I don't have the original 1849 source, though this particular translation appears in a now-purged Inc. post by Bill Murphy Jr.: https://web.archive.org/web/20180307183620/https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-does-air-travel-suck-so-bad-this-19th-century-economist-explained-it-with-ju.html https://web.archive.org/web/20180307183620/https://www.inc.c... Based on dates and Dupuit's publication listing, this is probably found in De l’influence des peages sur 1’utilité des voies de communication.

dave_walko 5y ago

So here is the fix for nvidia... I just did this and it works: 1. Go to Settings (the cog at the top right) 2. Click Apps 3. Click See all apps 4. Scroll to the bottom of the list - click Show system apps 5. Scroll down and click Google Play Services 6. Click Force Stop 7. Click Disable 8. Click Clear Cache 9. reboot 10. go back and uninstall google play updates 11. make sure apps are not set to auto update