16 ms·

Introducing Windows 11

283 points by WalterSobchak 5y ago

cblconfederate 5y ago
Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8/vista again? What i want from windows is speed . More and more people are going to be using them to work from home, and not on a tablet or a laptop, but on a good old desktop pc, their sales are going up. What's the rationale behind this kind of regression to terrible windows 8? Can i plz have snappier windows 7 with slightly cleaner look? > app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 This is great. That's how it s done
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  > Can i plz have snappier windows 7 with slightly cleaner look? I wouldn't mind a complete visual regression to Windows 7. In fact, I remember that Win 7 Aero only had rounded corners.
  - chrismorgan 5y ago
    > Win 7 Aero only had rounded corners. Except that the rounding only happened on the window decoration, which took space. The client rendering area was a full rectangle. Now, they’re cutting corners out of the client rendering area.
- zxzax 5y ago
  Touchscreen laptops and convertible laptops are becoming increasingly common, they can't just ignore this market segment.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    increasingly common but still a tiny minority of their user base. others shouldn't suffer for that
    - zxzax 5y ago
      I don't think so, the studies I've seen actually show the number of touchscreen devices is growing, and desktop PCs are shrinking.
      - cblconfederate 5y ago
        but how are their sales doing? given the kind of apps that run on a PC, i think the touchscreen is just a gimmick that is barely used. Windows programs are just not made for tablets, and will never be
        zxzax 5y ago
        The sales seem to be increasing, I wouldn't say it's a gimmick. Also touch support is not just for touchscreens, most laptops now have multi-touch touchpads where you can do gestures. Making a program support those already puts it significantly closer to having real touchscreen support, so it's not as hard or difficult as you'd imagine for older Windows programs to gain good tablet support.
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        maybe, but windows programs are so heterogeneous that i dont see how i will be able to use blender, browser, word, excel etc on a touchscreen . Besides, this "touch-first" approach has been tried with win8 and in my experience it was atrocious
        zxzax 5y ago
        The point with those laptops is, you use the keyboard when it makes sense, and you use the touchscreen when that makes sense. I think you're confusing "touch-first" with "having any support for touchscreens at all," some concessions need to be made if you don't want it to be totally unusable on a device like that which has an optional touchscreen.
        TheCapn 5y ago
- cnasc 5y ago
  > Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8 again? Windows 8 distinctly had no rounded corners. The metro design language was quite square
  - masklinn 5y ago
    Guessing they’re confusing 8 and Vista? I have no other explanation.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    right, win7 had some roundedness, but the unbelievable annoying launch screens for touchscreens were in win8 IIRC
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  I use Linux now but keep windows VMs around for some legacy stuff. It takes about 5-10s to boot win7. It's snappy as heck, and reliable, even in a vm with minimal ram.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    And, every program works
- fasdfefff 5y ago
  > App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 But there isn't a perpetual Agreement guaranteeing MS won't ever increase its cut in the future when its store becomes more popular. The Store hasn't yet been terribly successful. Most of my Windows apps are installed outside the MS store: Notepad++, VSCodium, Steam, and so on. So MS will try to get more apps in the Store and then lock down Windows like iOS once it has enough apps, then increase its own cut so that it can transfer wealth from the middle class to billionaire MSFT shareholders, just like AAPL does.
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    It doesn't even matter, unless microsoft stops allowing programs outside the app store. But that will never happen given their ecosystem.
    - witherk 5y ago
      You know I kind of wish windows had a store, but then I tired installing apps using the current store and it's a terrible experience. They make it so hard for people with more than 1 hard drive to manage what goes where.
- T-A 5y ago
  > Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8 again? Transparent windows and widgets make it more like Vista.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Looks like a new version of KDE
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    ... which the KDE will soon copy and the loop will continue forever
- indigochill 5y ago
  >> app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 > This is great. That's how it s done It can't go on, though. Why won't every developer turn their app "free" and use Stripe or something to shave even more off the commerce fees? Meanwhile Microsoft eats hosting/maintenance/development on the store for zero return. We saw why Apple went the IAP route even if it's unpopular among developers and the fees could afford to be reduced.
  - freeone3000 5y ago
    This is fine? It means more people are on the platform and using Windows. Remember, Microsoft still makes money from every Windows computer sold.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - birthday 5y ago
    Indirect revenue is why this is sustainable! Good on Microsoft for making the right choice here.
prakhargurunani 5y ago
All I want is a completely new, Unix like file system. Speed sucks in windows, bringing down my patience.
- Strom 5y ago
  The primary slowdown factor on Windows is not the filesystem itself but Windows Defender doing its scans. Just disable it and file operations will be a lot faster.
  - andai 5y ago
    Also the search indexer.
    - infogulch 5y ago
      I don't understand how the search indexer consumes so much resources, I was able to make something faster by following the ntfs journal and just keeping a full listing of files in sqlite.
      - radus 5y ago
        Especially considering that it's still somehow pretty bad at finding things that you know are there.
      - Tempest1981 5y ago
        Isn't it also opening each file, to extract text, EXIF data, etc?
        infogulch 5y ago
        For me it has maybe a 10% success rate for searching strings within files. Yet it takes minutes to search for file names even when spelled exactly. Finding files by name is the primary use-case, maybe optimize for that first.
    - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
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kadomony 5y ago
I mean.. The taskbar seems like a Dock now. The interface seems very Apple Finder-esque now. I feel like they're just aligning with macOS now. Not that I'm complaining, the video and the interface all are sexy.
- yourabstraction 5y ago
  Yeah, it looks like they finally just threw the towel in and admitted that macOS has had a superior design aesthetic, and started heading in the same direction.
  - tehbeard 5y ago
    In what way is it superior? Shinier?
    - DocTomoe 5y ago
      As a long time Linux-only-user (since 1996...) who is now forced by management to work on a MacBook: macOS just feels snappy. Things are where I would expect them to be. Files in the finder are actually what I searched for, and finding stuff is fast. UI animations give a clear indication on what is happening. I still prefer i3 ... but I can understand why a nontechnical user might prefer a mac device to a windows(10) device. Someone at Apple clearly knows about UI/UX.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    The good news is they’re doing that just as apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS designers in charge of macOS. The bad news is Apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS people in charge of macOS. The new safari looks insanely bad.
    - 72deluxe 5y ago
      I'm still on Mojave because of the UI changes in Big Sur.
  - 5y ago
DrNuke 5y ago
> Windows 11 will be available through a free upgrade for eligible Windows 10 PCs and on new PCs beginning this holiday. Wow!
- coder543 5y ago
  > this holiday Which holiday? Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Labor Day... Fourth of July? Maybe Halloween would be appropriate, given how scary any major Windows upgrade is to enterprise orgs. If they said "this holiday season", that would probably mean December timeframe, but they don't say that. They repeat this confusing reference later on: > The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and [...]
  - DrBazza 5y ago
    Some American holiday presumably? Just like the video starting at "8am PDT" or whatever. Why can't they just a) commit to a date or month, and b) specify UTC time for their launches.
  - witherk 5y ago
    rofl, they mean December you pedant
    - elyonerus 5y ago
      Holiday almost always means sometime mid-November to December.
      - hulitu 5y ago
        Where ?
      - chrismorgan 5y ago
        This is a particularly awful example of Americentrism. Going by season names is bad enough (this is a habit of Americans, Canadians and Europeans, which doesn’t work much beyond the northern hemisphere’s temperate and sub-arctic regions), especially for “fall”; but people in the rest of the world will normally eventually be able to figure it out. But this use of “holiday” is utterly unknown to most of the world and is nigh impossible to figure out without someone telling you what it is. As an Australian, I only learned about it last year, and my considered guess as to what it meant was wrong—I guessed somewhere in the middle of the year, when school is not operating during the summer. (We call the breaks between terms “school holidays”, most significantly of the summer break, which for us is mid–late December until the end of January or so.)
haolez 5y ago
Windows nowadays feels like a carefully crafted piece of software built by brilliant engineering and UX teams that, just before release, gets crapped all over by ads teams with annoyances and dark patterns. It must be frustrating to work in the former.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  Idk, it feels like the UX team has been hitting the whiskey, and the UI team slapped something together to squeeze out a pay rise. And then the ads team garnishes that with terribleness. And now, the teams team wants to make it worse.
  - nszceta 5y ago
    Cue the Ballmer Peak XKCD with Windows 11 replacing Windows ME https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
  - lupinglade 5y ago
    Yeah, I'd say this is what it feels like exactly.
  - drzaiusapelord 5y ago
    >teams team It still a little mindblowing to me that teams steals focus like it does at startup. Windows boots relatively slowly that I could be in an Outlook window or typing in a URL or whatever after a fresh reboot and then teams just steals my mouse and keyboard. I've trained myself to not do anything until teams starts (and being an electron app, it certainly takes its time) because I'm so annoyed by focus stealing. On my home computer the xbox application does the same but at least it loads super fast. I am just bewildered that in 2021 that focus stealing like this is so common and accepted by anyone let alone Microsoft. It just feels like scammy 2000s adware.
    - vxNsr 5y ago
      There’s a setting to open teams in the background/minimized. I’ve never seen that not work. If you want the window to open at startup as a window… then it’s working as expected, it’s not stealing focus, you told it to open at startup and above everything, zoom, steam, origin, VPN, did the same thing when I allowed them to open at startup maximized. Not sure why you’re using the Xbox app, but I believe it also has the option to open in background.
oblio 5y ago
> Windows is more than just an operating system; it’s a fabric woven into our lives and in our work. Folks, if you were thinking Windows 11 will bring less telemetry, you were wrong :-)
- toomanyducks 5y ago
  > Windows is more than justn operating system So we decided to make meaningless and confusing UI changes! Nevermind that billions of people rely on their knowledge of this OS's interface, fuck 'em! We're just so damn innovative all the time!
  - nathanaldensr 5y ago
    It's the "we have to do something!!!" mentality driven by the piles and piles of cash Microsoft has just lying around.
  - necessities 5y ago
    This! Just when everyone was finally getting used to Windows 10.... Finally...
- mr_overalls 5y ago
  With the growing awareness that tech giants possess intimate knowledge of our preferences, activities, and lives - and use that influence to literally addict us to technology, sell us things, influence us politically - who the f*ck wants another fantastically wealthy corporation "woven into our lives"? I mean, honestly, does anyone else yearn for the pre-2000 Internet? It sure feels increasingly like we're living in a tech dystopia.
  - varispeed 5y ago
    Most of these companies don't even pay taxes, they are literally leeches trying to suck blood out of everyone in their path.
- spixy 5y ago
  source?
unicornporn 5y ago
So, yet another level of UI inconsistencies[1]. [1] https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-10/ https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windo...
- Closi 5y ago
  One post says this, while another says > The only real question is, will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years. [I use it every day and don’t want them to make it into some simplified screen] Microsoft truly can’t win! One person praises it for being ugly while another for its beauty, while another criticises the central alignment of the taskbar and another says it’s a fundamentally stupid choice.
  - unicornporn 5y ago
    > will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years Just pull the band aid fast. Can't adjust the UI for inconsistencies in long time users muscle memory. They will adjust to a consistent UX.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    They could mostly win by making the new stuff actually fully functional; although any change would be annoying, the biggest part of "and don’t want them to make it into some simplified screen" is "simplified".
- verall 5y ago
  Its so bad. I don't know how this doesn't bug other people more. It's completely unfinished. Plenty of settings haven't moved from their XP or Windows 7 menus, as new "metro" 8/10 settings menus are created that have missing settings, new settings, and conflicting settings. The new W10 interface to set a static IP will conflict with the old one (adapter properties) without telling you. Happy debugging.
  - 5y ago
pier25 5y ago
> We’re also pumped to announce that we are bringing Android apps to Windows for the first time This is super cool, but honestly I don't see myself using any Android apps on Windows.
- Exmoor 5y ago
  > Starting later this year, people will be able to discover Android apps in the Microsoft Store and download them through the Amazon Appstore I probably shouldn't expect different, but it's a bummer that you apparently won't be able to to load paid Google Playstore apps. I have several reference apps that are paid and would love to run those on my desktop since no web or native app exists.
  - eightysixfour 5y ago
    Doesn't Windows have a built in tool to mirror this from an existing Android phone? Clearly not the same, but maybe an option.
- IAmMaulik 5y ago
  It is just like Apple did with their new M1 MacBooks
  - Daedren 5y ago
    Yeah but the question is, would this only be for ARM Windows?
- polshaw 5y ago
  I run chromeOS as my daily driver, and find a few android apps quite useful (I run linux apps too). There are lots of apps that are mobile-only which are nice to have a second copy of or use the big screen; google maps is possibly my favourite, much better than the web version. There's also just more developer focus on android than windows for a lot of small apps like free VPNs, currency converters etc, leading to better choice/quality/discoverability than native windows apps.
- 5y ago
magnat 5y ago
No mentions about privacy, more bundled in apps, more "AI", more cloud connectivity. I don't know what I even expected.
NmAmDa 5y ago
> The web was born and grew up on Windows I think CERN engineers while working on web and www protocol were using unix as windows was not even there yet. https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web
- izacus 5y ago
  I'm sure they're refering to the undying love every single web developer had for Internet Explorer.
  - xattt 5y ago
    That's completely the way I remember it!
  - edoceo 5y ago
    IE4 maybe, it was downhill after that.
    - konart 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure this was a sarcastic comment
  - okamiueru 5y ago
    I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what they are referring to. What they are clearly suggesting is false, and they should know better. > The web was born and grew up on Windows The first part is just a lie, the second part is open for interpretation, but certainly not the formative years.
  - efsavage 5y ago
    In the late 90s, IE4 and then IE5 was the gold standard. We were all ecstatic when we didn't have to support Netscape 4 anymore. It wasn't until Firefox (more specifically Firebug) was mature that IE lost the crown.
    - 5y ago
CozySoy 5y ago
Here they go again, messing with the start menu... Hard to believe that they didn't learn from Windows 8, but they didn't. Also: weren't we told multiple times that there would be no successor to Windows 10? That all future versions of Windows would just be updates?
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  It will be reversed. Give it a year until windows 12 (The apologetic edition)
- topaz0 5y ago
  Apparently this will be a free and in-place update from win10, so maybe that is compatible with what they meant by "just updates", even if it is a redesign.
  - topaz0 5y ago
    Which, by the way, is pretty strong evidence that you will be the product (even if it weren't for the talk of "weaving in with your life" or whatever).
edgeform 5y ago
Easy to thumb our noses at it, and this community is already on it in spades from the comments so far. I'll wait and see. I like Win10 much more than I thought I would. I rode Win7 into the sunset, only abandoning the ship about a week before they dropped security updates for it because I thought I'd dislike Win10 so much. I even ran Ubuntu as my desktop OS for about four months before switching back over to Microsoft and Win10. I'll wait and see this time.
jlduan 5y ago
Haven't been able to find the release schedule, when will MS deliver it?
- Miner49er 5y ago
  "The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and continuing into 2022."
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    If marketing has a say in it, I bet November 11th. 2021-11-11
- dylan604 5y ago
  It will happen one night while you are sleeping in the middle of a time sensitive deadline that will prevent you from doing what you need because several things are now broken after the update you didn't ask for occurred.
Tajnymag 5y ago
Does "free upgrade for eligible PCs" mean there won't be a generally available free upgrade from Win10?
- resoluteteeth 5y ago
  It probably just means that you can't upgrade if you have a very old computer that recent feature upgrades of Win10 have already dropped support for. Edit: actually some people are saying it may require TPM 2.0
saltysallys 5y ago
So the desktop is in the start menu now? Are icons on the desktop deprecated?
geocrasher 5y ago
My Primary concern with Windows 11 can be described as follows: 98 - ME XP - Vista 7 - 8 10 - 11 Has Microsoft broken the cycle? Time will tell.
- masklinn 5y ago
  ‘Course this is hampered by Windows 2000, which came concurrent to ME and was better than XP.
  - geocrasher 5y ago
    Yeah W2K was an oddity that way. I wasn't sure how to fit it in this. But TBH, it wasn't as well adopted as ME or XP and I didn't feel the need to wedge it in there. The point stands, with or without W2K in the mix.
    - TremendousJudge 5y ago
      >as well adopted as ME was ME ever adopted by anyone? I saw more W2K machines than ME back in the day
      - masklinn 5y ago
        I think it was preinstalled on a lot of "consumer" machines, the boxes you'd buy did not usually have 2K instead they replaced 98 with ME. I had one friend with an ME box, and that was the worst POS around, it was so bad. Everybody else was either 2K or linux.
  - tehbeard 5y ago
    Enterprise OS built for enterprise needs is > home OS? quelle surprise. That's same now as it was, 10 pro/workstation are better than home.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    2000 was back when NT was a separate thing though, right? Didn't they switch to the NT kernel for everything after that?
imwillofficial 5y ago
“The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products.” Steve Jobs Triumph of the Nerds (1996)
croes 5y ago
>Why Microsoft is calling Windows 10 'the last version of Windows' https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-ve... There you see again what Microsoft's statements are worth.
- yunohn 5y ago
  They’re doing a free upgrade for W10 users, and making a new “numbered version”, to signify the significant changes. I’m not sure why this is that problematic?
  - TheCapn 5y ago
    So I'm not going to need to buy a new license for this? I'm on board. If it pisses me off enough I'll just roll back.
  - gnomewascool 5y ago
    > They’re doing a free upgrade for W10 users > *Look for PCs that indicate they are eligible for the free upgrade, or you can check with your retailer for more information. Are they, though?
    - yunohn 5y ago
      They don’t indicate any specific requirements, so presumably it will be free for pretty much everyone with a windows 10 license.
    - FalconSensei 5y ago
      This is probably required by their legal department. Reasons that someone would not update: 1 - No licensed W10 2 - Too old PC - can't work with W11 3 - No MS account or internet connection (as this is a requirement for upgrading)
  - GordonS 5y ago
    So, Windows 10 is my daily-driver (Enterprise eds), and I love it. I'm a big fan of Windows in general. But Microsoft did say that Windows 10 was going to be theast version of Windows, with incremental updates thereafter; I don't see why they need to change that to accommodate what appears to be little more than an unwanted UI refresh with more crappy AI-driven news feeds that nobody wants. From everything I've seen, Windows 11 looks like it's very much an incremental update over the Windows 10 of today. So why not have a Windows 10 feature update? What is the point of this?
kayson 5y ago
So much for Windows 10 being the last version of windows...[1] [1] https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-10-the-last-version-of-windows https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-10-the-last-version-of-wi...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dekhn 5y ago
The only real question is, will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years? I use it daily. They've just put it behind more and more "nicce looking, but non-functional" network management UIs,.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  Oh yeah.. I fucking hate Windows 10, a few weeks ago I had to check these settings and I got lost every time.. I think they've completed the web-pagization of the control panel nowadays.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    Well, right now it's: Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Network and Internet -> Network and Sharing Center -> Change adapter settings. I'm sure they will add " -> Ad for Steve Ballmer's Basketball Team -> ".
    - 8note 5y ago
      I think I can still get to that view by right clicking on the bottom right thing for wifi
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    Linux desktop is getting there... (Not sure, though, what an "ideal" UNIX desktop is supposed to be like.)
  - jhowison 5y ago
    Win + R, control netconnections
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  Classic network configuration is not good UI by any means, claustrophobic non-resizable windows with complicated nested hierarchy. But they somehow managed to make "Settings" not better, with huge whitespace and a lot less functional...
Strom 5y ago
Apparently the Home edition will require a Microsoft account and an internet connection. [1] Can't say I'm looking forward to this. All my Windows installations are with local accounts and I would like to keep it that way. Microsoft has already made it incredibly obnoxious to achieve this with the latest Windows 10 setups, where you have to make sure your computer is not connected to the internet to even unlock the fallback local account creation option. [2] A sad day indeed if this is no longer possible. -- [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22548480/windows-11-home-internet-connection-set-up https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22548480/windows-11-home-... [2] https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/ https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-...
- toomanyducks 5y ago
  I think a recent version of Windows I had the misfortune of setting up also required a Ms account: no option for a local install. It's also possible that I'm just stupid and didn't see it, but (shrug)
  - simiones 5y ago
    It should, even on the latest Window 10 builds, but only if your computer is not connected to the Internet...
  - rytcio 5y ago
    The secret is you have to install Windows 10 with the network disconnected. If it doesn't detect a network connection, it lets you create a local account
  - 45ure 5y ago
    You can bypass it by either turning off the network connection prior to a new/clean installation on 20H2/21H1. If you are stuck on the account screen during the installation process, then entering wrong credentials 3 times will present you with a local account option. However, if you have completed installation, then there is an option to turn it into a local account in Settings --> User Accounts --> Change your account type.
contravariant 5y ago
> Start utilizes the power of the cloud and Microsoft 365 to show you your recent files no matter what platform or device you were viewing them on earlier Well, consider me scared.
- Spivak 5y ago
  I mean this is basically just iCloud and users generally adore it. Having deep integration to say things like “get me the document I was working on my phone” or a global browser history search is really freakin cool.
  - contravariant 5y ago
    I really don't need microsoft harvesting my personal documents and telemetry to power a start menu. I'd be happy if they could finally get round to answering questions like "open the file called file.ext", rather than doing something terrifying like guessing what I might have meant by uploading absolutely everything to their own servers.
iscrewyou 5y ago
Advanced System Settings > (Performance) Settings > Adjust for Best Performance > Apply and OK.
matthewfcarlson 5y ago
I know I’m a former microsoft employee so I’m a bit biased, but man the quality of these presentations are awesome. Panos is the best salesperson I’ve ever had the chance to meet.
drakenot 5y ago
The prominence of that Game Store in the Windows 11 press materials is, I guess, part of the motivation Valve has had for investing in Linux gaming.
bluedino 5y ago
"The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and continuing into 2022." This is a very un-American sounding sentence.
- breakingcups 5y ago
  Their real money is not in the Windows 11 license anymore. It's in the tight Microsoft account integration, the recurring revenue for 365/OneDrive, etc.
neogodless 5y ago
Here's a tool to check if your PC meets the hardware requirements[0]. However, it looks like many modern systems don't have TPM 2.0 enabled in the BIOS, and will come back with "This PC can't run Windows 11" (including mine - Asus Prime X470 Pro with Ryzen 2700X, 32GB RAM, 1.5TB storage, Radeon RX 5600 XT.) [0] https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/d/d/1dd9969b-bc9a-41bc-8455-bc657c939b47/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/d/d/1dd9969b-bc9a-...
- bugfix 5y ago
  Apparently, my 3yo desktop isn't compatible (Gigabyte Z270X Ultra). I really doubt people will upgrade their hardware just to use Windows 11.
  - taviso 5y ago
    That doesn't sound right, search around in the BIOS for "Platform Trust Technology" or "PTT". If it's disabled, change it to enabled.
    - bugfix 5y ago
      Just enabled PTT in the BIOS, but the tool still says my computer is not compatible (but it doesn't tell me exactly why).
      - aarongolliver 5y ago
        You probably only have the header on your motherboard, without a tpm module actually plugged in. Mine was like this, and the specs for your motherboard suggest this is also the case for you. You can buy them on online pretty cheap (I got one for $20)
        taviso 5y ago
        PTT is part of the CPU, no external TPM module is necessary. PTT is Intel's implementation, AMD have something similar called fTPM. You do not need any external module on machines with fTPM/PTT support (i.e. if you bought it in the last few years).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kinduff 5y ago
I like it and I'm excited to install it. I've been enjoying a lot this "new" Microsoft, including all the WSL that they brought. New UI looks macOS-ish but looks fresh at the same time.
tibbydudeza 5y ago
MS Teams client built in and the ability to run Android apps via the App Store.
gostsamo 5y ago
> For creators and publishers, Widgets also opens new real estate within Windows to deliver personalized content. This is nothing but very deep penetration in the user's personal space.
lxe 5y ago
> We’re also announcing a progressive change to our revenue share policies where app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. Nicely done!
- bogwog 5y ago
  One would have to be incredibly naive to fall for that. They're just going to bring that fee back later when/if people actually start using their store. Windows has a lot of problems, but as of yet the world has been fortunate enough to avoid it becoming another walled garden. Actually using their store, either as a developer or consumer, is a sure-fire way to fuck that up for everyone.
jandrese 5y ago
Do you think they finally finished the control panel transition? Window 10's control panel thing feels like it was stopped halfway through development, so they left the old stuff in there but made it hard to access. Unfortunately most of the time when you need to change something it's not on the new control panel so you have to dig for the old one instead. When Windows 10 was first released I figured they would finish up the new control panel and deprecate the old one, but instead several years have passed with no progress whatsoever on the problem and it is still a pain point with Windows 10. Certainly it can't be that hard to copy over the missing features? Did the control panel team quit en-masse in 2015?
- freeone3000 5y ago
  Control panel allowed for third-party add-ins. settings doesn't. Until CPLs are migrated, Control Panel stays
  - cblconfederate 5y ago
    wasnt a hierarchical, folder-like control panel more usable anyway? They just needed to figure out a more sane hierarchy.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    But there are still non-third-party things in Control Panel. Microsoft hasn't moved all their own settings over to Settings.
    - layer8 5y ago
      Third-party add-ins add additional tabs to Microsoft’s Control Panel items. Microsoft can’t just remove them.
      - nxc18 5y ago
        If Microsoft really wanted to, they could find a way to squeeze the old panels into the new UI. They can run x86 binaries on ARM, and all sorts of other tricks, its not like they lack the engineering talent. They also do loads of shims/special treatments for specific apps based on a compatibility database. Worst case scenario, they could rewrite the top ~100 most common ones and make “Legacy Control Panel” an optional feature that is off by default. It has been 5+ years since Windows 10 came out, longer since 8, Microsoft really doesn’t need people making excuses for them.
w-m 5y ago
In the video, they're spending the first 20 seconds filing down the corners of the logo, having a big reveal of the blue Windows logo with rounded corners. This leads into the rest of the feature reveal, all round things now. But in the "end credits", the same blue Windows logo is back to its sharp cornered self again. Is this a subtle hint to the UI inconsistencies that are still to be expected after the major version bump, or is there another meaning?
- srg0 5y ago
  Windows 11 logo uses rounded corners. The official Microsoft logo is still flat square.
lupinglade 5y ago
What about removing all the old crud at some point? All this disorganized layering makes windows feel like a schizophrenic operating system. At some point they have to realize they have to start cleaning up the mess, right?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Why? None of their competitors do.
  - lupinglade 5y ago
    Really? Have you ever used Apple's platforms?
    - dlvktrsh 5y ago
      that's a good argument but there are so many things that macOS can't do that windows can (legacy support, endless tinkering with relative ease. maybe more things but i think these two things encompass a lot more and are the main reasons holding windows back from being the same as the oh so esteemed macOS)
ezequiel-garzon 5y ago
At a time when the PC is playing a more central role in our lives Oh, come on! That trend has peaked long ago, and you guys know it. And I type this using Windows 10, quite happily I might add, but unless you take a what's-a-computer approach that lumps cell phones with desktop PCs and everything in between, that is a ridiculous (opening!) statement.
- simiones 5y ago
  Well, with the pandemic and general shift to learn-from-home and work-from-home, I would say that they are not wrong.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  pc sales are up
okamiueru 5y ago
The main thing that would be of interest to me: - Have they replaced/improved the NT kernel [1]? - Have they replaced the ancient registry? [2] The answer to either was not to be found. I'll bet windows 11 will still be a backwards-compatible mess if the answer to either is `no`. [1]: http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-we-are-slower-than-other-oper/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-w... [2]: https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-registry-sucks-technically/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-regist...
- Tempest1981 5y ago
  There is a developer-focused event soon. But I wouldn't expect significant changes. Probably more focus on Teams and Store apps. At noon PDT: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egZ82QGshX8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egZ82QGshX8 Possible content: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/24/what-windows-11-means-for-developers/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/24/what-w...
  - okamiueru 5y ago
    I would also be surprised if there are significant changes. Windows is a marvel at being backwards compatible, which I doubt they will be able to get away from. Here's to hoping. Do you know when that dev conference is? Edit: Saw your edit answered my question. Thanks :)
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Having a consistent UI development framework would be a good start. WPF is no longer maintained and UWP brings with it the crappy Store and limited sandboxed capabilities.
AnonHP 5y ago
I can’t wait to see if Control Panel is still around with those network interface dialogs (among many others) from nearly two decades ago. The new dock or taskbar looks nicer, but something about the window styles, the shape, the icons and the fonts still looks as ugly as they are on Windows 10.
TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
Is there anything Microsoft could do with the OS that would really matter? Corporate purchases account for what?, 80%?, 90%? of Windows sales? My prediction: This version will still have (nearly) weekly root-level 0-day patches, but companies will continue to eat it up with a fork and spoon, because it lets them do such things as dictate to their corporate laptop fleet how long the screensaver can run before it locks. And the relatively few people who choose to use the OS for gaming (or on their Surface) will find things to be happy about, and life will go on as usual.
deleted 5y ago
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LudwigNagasena 5y ago
So, almost all the new “features” are about forcing Microsoft services onto users, really cool.
croes 5y ago
This could be a deal breaker Minimum system requirements: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11
intrasight 5y ago
I had assumed/hoped that the next version of windows would be built atop Linux.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I can think of no reason for anyone to seriously believe such a thing would happen. Most of Windows's value comes from its backwards compatibility, and they'd have to rebuild most of the userspace on top of Linux which doesn't make much sense since they already have a good kernel that they own completely.
leucineleprec0n 5y ago
Am I the only one who likes the padded, easy-to-read UI but just wishes MS would actually implement it across the OS? I don't want MacOS infinitesimal icons nor windows xp aesthetics. I like what they're doing, there is just a lot of variance left which is where e.g. apple does a good job.
distrill 5y ago
Everyone jokes about it finally being "the year of the linux desktop", but a few years ago that actually did happen to my circle. Between a mac for work and linux at home, I actually haven't touched windows in a number of years at this point, and interestingly, neither have a reasonable number of the technical people I interact with. Of the nontechnical people around me, many of them have transitioned to primarily use their phone or sometimes a tablet. The only people I know who still use windows adamantly are PC gamers, and they're all still on windows 7. Is windows still considered the default home computing environment? Since they're totally out of mobile at this point, I wonder by what margin, and how long that will actually last. I suppose there is still the corporate world that isn't all in on on apple, that may not change for some time.
- valine 5y ago
  I've been running Linux on my personal desktop for years now. Unless you want to play games or require it for work I'm not sure what advantages windows really has anymore. Linux is noticeably faster, has no ads, and is Unix based.
  - kgraves 5y ago
    Windows also has Linux now. I can play Windows games and use Linux on Windows (WSL) I don’t see the point of running Linux distros on bare metal anymore.
    - valine 5y ago
      Bare metal Linux is much faster than Linux on windows in my experience. Also does nothing to address all the other windows rot like ads in the start menu and excessive telemetry.
    - distrill 5y ago
      WSL is a nice to have gnu inside of windows, but one of the reasons I switched to linux was because I enjoyed setting up a window manager and configuring my status bar, writing custom scripts for keybindings, general fiddling. There are distros that compete with windows in the UI space, and maybe those don't make much sense anymore. I'm sort of answering my own question here too - people that don't love tinkering for its own sake may not ever be driven away from windows.
captainmuon 5y ago
Disappointed that it is not going to look exactly like the renderings in the video, with the physically rendered glass panes and slight perspective. I think the processing power required would be negligible compared to any modern game. Instead, it is going to be flat design with some blur and more gradients. Remember when people were excited about a new OS version, with a new cool design? Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP?
- olyjohn 5y ago
  It used to be exciting, because it didn't used to feel so half assed. Nowadays, you watch these videos and it's the same drivel... more cloud connected, more apps, more online accounts... share your photos, make a video call, sit in the woods with your Surface and work while on vacation... that kinda garbage.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  i dont know, compiz and other compositing window managers with wobbly windows were kind of fun
grishka 5y ago
And they still insist that touchscreens on computers are a practical thing and thus make everything huge.
deleted 5y ago
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cestith 5y ago
I wonder what Sir Tim Berners-Lee would have to say about the Web being born on Windows. Both WorldWideWeb (the first Web browser) and CERN httpd (the first Web server) were developed on NeXTSTEP.
bigtex 5y ago
Any mention of Windows 11 for ARM?
qyi 5y ago
There was a 10?
poisonborz 5y ago
I had a really hard time watching the presentation, regardless of the features presented. Panos Panay continously referred to Windows as "the product", they presented years-old feature like multi-desktop, and the maybe biggest news, Android apps, was just mentioned as side info.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
if yellow journalism pays so much that microsoft is hell bent on shoving "personalised news feed" down peoples throats afer msn homepage on browsers and now on the desktop, why do news outlets beg for "dont block ads, we need ad revenue or buy subscription"? just take that from microsoft and be done with it
least 5y ago
I'm really happy about the new functionality for window management in Windows 11, particularly the grouped applications that you can maximize or minimize together. I also like that they're emphasizing different workspaces for different tasks, as this is much how I work with MacOS' spaces. Similarly I'd think that people used to automatic tiling window managers in linux would be familiar and appreciate the advantages of this workflow. The added tiling features that go beyond what is already a pretty competent window manager is welcome. I'm assuming they are drawing a lot of that from their powertoys fancy zones [1] application. Hopefully the added docking features and how they treat windows really is as good as they are demoing. I hope that there is some way to navigate to the individual workspaces by a keybind built into Windows, though. As it is in Windows 10, you can't (as far as I know) bind an arbitrary hotkey to focus a specific workspace, you have to navigate them directionally which makes it much harder for me to use for what I use them for. I also got the impression that changing themes like from light to dark mode is going to be a much better experience (one that's intended to happen often) with smooth animations between them. Windows 10 currently does allow you to change from light to dark mode but there's no way to automatically switch them by sunrise/sunset like it exists in MacOS. Mojave also featured bad animations when it added dark mode to MacOS but today does it much more gracefully. I'm extremely skeptical of any sort of improvement on their search/launcher, which is hilariously bad when compared against spotlight's index (which powers spotlight and many third party applications like alfred and launchbar) or even kde's krunner or applications like rofi. If there is a meaningful change here it'd be the most exciting for me, though. Overall I don't know that it needs a numbered update or not, but one advantage of having big numbered releases is that it gives you an opportunity to highlight a lot of new features at once, rather than only hearing about them through enthusiast blogs who are carefully watching the rolling releases of Windows 10. Hopefully the features work as well as advertised. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzones https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzone...
dang 5y ago
Related ongoing thread: Microsoft announces Windows 11 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27618805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27618805
croes 5y ago
Built in Teams in Windows 11, sounds like new anti trust is coming.
DanTheManPR 5y ago
I wonder if they'll finally make it possible for more than one instance of Settings to be open.
giomasce 5y ago
"From the new Start button and taskbar to each sound, font and icon, everything was done intentionally to put you in control and bring a sense of calm and ease". It is important to carefully polish icons to put users in control.
codeulike 5y ago
Omg they put the start button in the middle I hate it I hate it
Scramblejams 5y ago
Could 11 solve some of my Windows gripes? (experienced on Win 10 Pro and LTSC, not on a domain so no group policy applied) Unfortunately I doubt it: For me, window focus handling has gotten noticeably worse in the past couple of years. A window will pop up, I'll start typing, the keypresses won't go into the window, then I'll hit alt+tab twice to switch away and then back, and then the keypresses will magically start landing. Anybody else notice this? The lack of a proper inode-based filesystem means I'm frequently having to terminate processes during builds because something is holding open a file that needs to be replaced. It's 2021. Linux and MacOS don't have this problem, when will this finally get solved? My laptop sometimes turns into a jet engine because one of many aggressive background processes goes nuts for a short period. Which one varies -- it could be Compatibility Telemetry (tried turning it off, didn't stay off), Superfetch, search indexing, etc. Especially frustrating when I'm on battery. Suspend doesn't always stay suspended. Too many times I've pulled a hot laptop out of a backpack. I've tried all the Internet-suggested fixes to no avail, so I had to give up on suspend. The start menu at some point became non-deterministic, so I can't use muscle memory to open things without looking. For example when I hit the start menu and type "bash", half the time "Git Bash" is the highlighted option, half the time it's WSL's bash. The start menu has been corrupted by Cortana. Sometimes figuratively, where it doesn't immediately respond to keypresses because it's apparently trying to load something and finally stutters open. Sometimes literally, where text search stops working for local apps and the only fix is to reinstall Windows. (Tried all of the internet-suggested fixes, tried an experienced Windows IT guy, etc.) The installer's lack of flexibility and compatibility is horrible. Not a problem if you only ever get Windows on a new PC, but for those of us who re/install things, it's horrible. Even Debian's text installer is more flexible and reliable than what MS gives us. Now when I install Windows on a dual boot system I keep Linux on a separate device and remove the Linux device before installing Windows, just so Windows won't put its EFI config on the wrong drive (yep, that happened). Don't get me started on the user hostile telemetry, how awful the event viewer is when you're trying to figure out what's going wrong, rebooting despite me telling it not to, the unwanted game installs (on Pro!) just so the App Store group can claim some success story, etc. And I've got more but it's almost too easy...
eximius 5y ago
Oh hell. I need to figure out how to do GPU passthrough for VMs for gaming so I can ditch it once and for all. I'm not putting up with more and more junk.
hrez 5y ago
What I want is modern performant filesystem with checksumming for data/metadata, zstd, ssd-optimized, perhaps cow/snapshots. Basically I want btrfs. ReFS was that promise but AFAIK it's still not bootable, mirror required, no compression. In short, unusable for non-servers.
virgulino 5y ago
No 1st gen AMD Zen support: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... Zen+ supported. I wonder why.
varispeed 5y ago
This Windows update is a car crash. Seems like another data grab by shoving Teams spyware down people throats. I like the dig at Google with Amazon Android (to which you need another account and another company sticking their greasy fingers into your data pie). I just hope that this "upgrade" is optional and they will not start to age Windows 10 with updates designed to slow the operating system. I was actually hoping that Windows 11 will become a window manager on top of a Linux with compatibility layer to run Windows 10 apps. Oh well.
nxc18 5y ago
I just want them to include a Windows license in my Microsoft 365 subscription and let me install it on my M1 (or Intel) Mac. I don’t understand why the business folks at MS haven’t noticed that opportunity. Separately, I’d like to see a return to the concept of “Trusted Computing”. In the Windows XP/Vista days, telemetry was opt-in (sometimes with a nudge). Office wouldn’t send my grammar telemetry to MS without letting me see it and remove items first. There was an option to just turn it all off. I get why MS wants telemetry, but they would win a lot of good will by giving power users an easy way to opt out. I think relatively few would do it in practice and they’d lose some of the bad press. Greater UI consistency would be nice as well but that isn’t exactly on brand for them, so not holding my breath.
- magnetowasright 5y ago
  I don’t think good will or good publicity matters, and MS knows it. If the telemetry, spam reinstalling, changing user settings, user document deleting, work interrupting crap they pull with Win10 hasn’t caused a significant number of users to abandon ship, I am not sure what will.
  - nxc18 5y ago
    True, all good points. I just wish software companies were more motivated by craftsmanship and love for users. I remember in college they would always emphasize user obsession at the recruiting events. Apparently I drank more of that koolaid than the people they ended up hiring.
muyuu 5y ago
do you guys anticipate an uptick in Linux/BSD/Mac adoption?
desktopninja 5y ago
Hope W11 brings back the installation option "Compact". Personally just want the base OS.
stonecharioteer 5y ago
No text-based configuration or headless systems yet again. This truly is a non-developer-friendly OS.

283 points by WalterSobchak 5y ago

Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8/vista again? What i want from windows is speed . More and more people are going to be using them to work from home, and not on a tablet or a laptop, but on a good old desktop pc, their sales are going up. What's the rationale behind this kind of regression to terrible windows 8? Can i plz have snappier windows 7 with slightly cleaner look? > app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 This is great. That's how it s done

theandrewbailey 5y ago
> Can i plz have snappier windows 7 with slightly cleaner look? I wouldn't mind a complete visual regression to Windows 7. In fact, I remember that Win 7 Aero only had rounded corners.
- chrismorgan 5y ago
  > Win 7 Aero only had rounded corners. Except that the rounding only happened on the window decoration, which took space. The client rendering area was a full rectangle. Now, they’re cutting corners out of the client rendering area.
zxzax 5y ago
Touchscreen laptops and convertible laptops are becoming increasingly common, they can't just ignore this market segment.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  increasingly common but still a tiny minority of their user base. others shouldn't suffer for that
  - zxzax 5y ago
    I don't think so, the studies I've seen actually show the number of touchscreen devices is growing, and desktop PCs are shrinking.
    - cblconfederate 5y ago
      but how are their sales doing? given the kind of apps that run on a PC, i think the touchscreen is just a gimmick that is barely used. Windows programs are just not made for tablets, and will never be
      - zxzax 5y ago
        The sales seem to be increasing, I wouldn't say it's a gimmick. Also touch support is not just for touchscreens, most laptops now have multi-touch touchpads where you can do gestures. Making a program support those already puts it significantly closer to having real touchscreen support, so it's not as hard or difficult as you'd imagine for older Windows programs to gain good tablet support.
        cblconfederate 5y ago
        maybe, but windows programs are so heterogeneous that i dont see how i will be able to use blender, browser, word, excel etc on a touchscreen . Besides, this "touch-first" approach has been tried with win8 and in my experience it was atrocious
        zxzax 5y ago
        The point with those laptops is, you use the keyboard when it makes sense, and you use the touchscreen when that makes sense. I think you're confusing "touch-first" with "having any support for touchscreens at all," some concessions need to be made if you don't want it to be totally unusable on a device like that which has an optional touchscreen.
      - TheCapn 5y ago
cnasc 5y ago
> Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8 again? Windows 8 distinctly had no rounded corners. The metro design language was quite square
- masklinn 5y ago
  Guessing they’re confusing 8 and Vista? I have no other explanation.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  right, win7 had some roundedness, but the unbelievable annoying launch screens for touchscreens were in win8 IIRC
irthomasthomas 5y ago
I use Linux now but keep windows VMs around for some legacy stuff. It takes about 5-10s to boot win7. It's snappy as heck, and reliable, even in a vm with minimal ram.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  And, every program works
fasdfefff 5y ago
> App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 But there isn't a perpetual Agreement guaranteeing MS won't ever increase its cut in the future when its store becomes more popular. The Store hasn't yet been terribly successful. Most of my Windows apps are installed outside the MS store: Notepad++, VSCodium, Steam, and so on. So MS will try to get more apps in the Store and then lock down Windows like iOS once it has enough apps, then increase its own cut so that it can transfer wealth from the middle class to billionaire MSFT shareholders, just like AAPL does.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  It doesn't even matter, unless microsoft stops allowing programs outside the app store. But that will never happen given their ecosystem.
  - witherk 5y ago
    You know I kind of wish windows had a store, but then I tired installing apps using the current store and it's a terrible experience. They make it so hard for people with more than 1 hard drive to manage what goes where.
T-A 5y ago
> Rounded corners and touchscreens, is that windows 8 again? Transparent windows and widgets make it more like Vista.
bluedino 5y ago
Looks like a new version of KDE
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  ... which the KDE will soon copy and the loop will continue forever
indigochill 5y ago
>> app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. App developers can still use our commerce with competitive revenue share of 85/15 > This is great. That's how it s done It can't go on, though. Why won't every developer turn their app "free" and use Stripe or something to shave even more off the commerce fees? Meanwhile Microsoft eats hosting/maintenance/development on the store for zero return. We saw why Apple went the IAP route even if it's unpopular among developers and the fees could afford to be reduced.
- freeone3000 5y ago
  This is fine? It means more people are on the platform and using Windows. Remember, Microsoft still makes money from every Windows computer sold.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- birthday 5y ago
  Indirect revenue is why this is sustainable! Good on Microsoft for making the right choice here.

prakhargurunani 5y ago

All I want is a completely new, Unix like file system. Speed sucks in windows, bringing down my patience.

Strom 5y ago
The primary slowdown factor on Windows is not the filesystem itself but Windows Defender doing its scans. Just disable it and file operations will be a lot faster.
- andai 5y ago
  Also the search indexer.
  - infogulch 5y ago
    I don't understand how the search indexer consumes so much resources, I was able to make something faster by following the ntfs journal and just keeping a full listing of files in sqlite.
    - radus 5y ago
      Especially considering that it's still somehow pretty bad at finding things that you know are there.
    - Tempest1981 5y ago
      Isn't it also opening each file, to extract text, EXIF data, etc?
      - infogulch 5y ago
        For me it has maybe a 10% success rate for searching strings within files. Yet it takes minutes to search for file names even when spelled exactly. Finding files by name is the primary use-case, maybe optimize for that first.
  - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kadomony 5y ago

I mean.. The taskbar seems like a Dock now. The interface seems very Apple Finder-esque now. I feel like they're just aligning with macOS now. Not that I'm complaining, the video and the interface all are sexy.

yourabstraction 5y ago
Yeah, it looks like they finally just threw the towel in and admitted that macOS has had a superior design aesthetic, and started heading in the same direction.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  In what way is it superior? Shinier?
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    As a long time Linux-only-user (since 1996...) who is now forced by management to work on a MacBook: macOS just feels snappy. Things are where I would expect them to be. Files in the finder are actually what I searched for, and finding stuff is fast. UI animations give a clear indication on what is happening. I still prefer i3 ... but I can understand why a nontechnical user might prefer a mac device to a windows(10) device. Someone at Apple clearly knows about UI/UX.
- masklinn 5y ago
  The good news is they’re doing that just as apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS designers in charge of macOS. The bad news is Apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS people in charge of macOS. The new safari looks insanely bad.
  - 72deluxe 5y ago
    I'm still on Mojave because of the UI changes in Big Sur.
- 5y ago

DrNuke 5y ago

> Windows 11 will be available through a free upgrade for eligible Windows 10 PCs and on new PCs beginning this holiday. Wow!

coder543 5y ago
> this holiday Which holiday? Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year, Labor Day... Fourth of July? Maybe Halloween would be appropriate, given how scary any major Windows upgrade is to enterprise orgs. If they said "this holiday season", that would probably mean December timeframe, but they don't say that. They repeat this confusing reference later on: > The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and [...]
- DrBazza 5y ago
  Some American holiday presumably? Just like the video starting at "8am PDT" or whatever. Why can't they just a) commit to a date or month, and b) specify UTC time for their launches.
- witherk 5y ago
  rofl, they mean December you pedant
  - elyonerus 5y ago
    Holiday almost always means sometime mid-November to December.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      Where ?
    - chrismorgan 5y ago
      This is a particularly awful example of Americentrism. Going by season names is bad enough (this is a habit of Americans, Canadians and Europeans, which doesn’t work much beyond the northern hemisphere’s temperate and sub-arctic regions), especially for “fall”; but people in the rest of the world will normally eventually be able to figure it out. But this use of “holiday” is utterly unknown to most of the world and is nigh impossible to figure out without someone telling you what it is. As an Australian, I only learned about it last year, and my considered guess as to what it meant was wrong—I guessed somewhere in the middle of the year, when school is not operating during the summer. (We call the breaks between terms “school holidays”, most significantly of the summer break, which for us is mid–late December until the end of January or so.)

haolez 5y ago

Windows nowadays feels like a carefully crafted piece of software built by brilliant engineering and UX teams that, just before release, gets crapped all over by ads teams with annoyances and dark patterns. It must be frustrating to work in the former.

tehbeard 5y ago
Idk, it feels like the UX team has been hitting the whiskey, and the UI team slapped something together to squeeze out a pay rise. And then the ads team garnishes that with terribleness. And now, the teams team wants to make it worse.
- nszceta 5y ago
  Cue the Ballmer Peak XKCD with Windows 11 replacing Windows ME https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
- lupinglade 5y ago
  Yeah, I'd say this is what it feels like exactly.
- drzaiusapelord 5y ago
  >teams team It still a little mindblowing to me that teams steals focus like it does at startup. Windows boots relatively slowly that I could be in an Outlook window or typing in a URL or whatever after a fresh reboot and then teams just steals my mouse and keyboard. I've trained myself to not do anything until teams starts (and being an electron app, it certainly takes its time) because I'm so annoyed by focus stealing. On my home computer the xbox application does the same but at least it loads super fast. I am just bewildered that in 2021 that focus stealing like this is so common and accepted by anyone let alone Microsoft. It just feels like scammy 2000s adware.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    There’s a setting to open teams in the background/minimized. I’ve never seen that not work. If you want the window to open at startup as a window… then it’s working as expected, it’s not stealing focus, you told it to open at startup and above everything, zoom, steam, origin, VPN, did the same thing when I allowed them to open at startup maximized. Not sure why you’re using the Xbox app, but I believe it also has the option to open in background.

oblio 5y ago

> Windows is more than just an operating system; it’s a fabric woven into our lives and in our work. Folks, if you were thinking Windows 11 will bring less telemetry, you were wrong :-)

toomanyducks 5y ago
> Windows is more than justn operating system So we decided to make meaningless and confusing UI changes! Nevermind that billions of people rely on their knowledge of this OS's interface, fuck 'em! We're just so damn innovative all the time!
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  It's the "we have to do something!!!" mentality driven by the piles and piles of cash Microsoft has just lying around.
- necessities 5y ago
  This! Just when everyone was finally getting used to Windows 10.... Finally...
mr_overalls 5y ago
With the growing awareness that tech giants possess intimate knowledge of our preferences, activities, and lives - and use that influence to literally addict us to technology, sell us things, influence us politically - who the f*ck wants another fantastically wealthy corporation "woven into our lives"? I mean, honestly, does anyone else yearn for the pre-2000 Internet? It sure feels increasingly like we're living in a tech dystopia.
- varispeed 5y ago
  Most of these companies don't even pay taxes, they are literally leeches trying to suck blood out of everyone in their path.
spixy 5y ago
source?

unicornporn 5y ago

So, yet another level of UI inconsistencies[1]. [1] https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windows-how-many-layers-of-ui-inconsistencies-are-in-windows-10/ https://ntdotdev.wordpress.com/2021/02/06/state-of-the-windo...

Closi 5y ago
One post says this, while another says > The only real question is, will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years. [I use it every day and don’t want them to make it into some simplified screen] Microsoft truly can’t win! One person praises it for being ugly while another for its beauty, while another criticises the central alignment of the taskbar and another says it’s a fundamentally stupid choice.
- unicornporn 5y ago
  > will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years Just pull the band aid fast. Can't adjust the UI for inconsistencies in long time users muscle memory. They will adjust to a consistent UX.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  They could mostly win by making the new stuff actually fully functional; although any change would be annoying, the biggest part of "and don’t want them to make it into some simplified screen" is "simplified".
verall 5y ago
Its so bad. I don't know how this doesn't bug other people more. It's completely unfinished. Plenty of settings haven't moved from their XP or Windows 7 menus, as new "metro" 8/10 settings menus are created that have missing settings, new settings, and conflicting settings. The new W10 interface to set a static IP will conflict with the old one (adapter properties) without telling you. Happy debugging.
- 5y ago

pier25 5y ago

> We’re also pumped to announce that we are bringing Android apps to Windows for the first time This is super cool, but honestly I don't see myself using any Android apps on Windows.

Exmoor 5y ago
> Starting later this year, people will be able to discover Android apps in the Microsoft Store and download them through the Amazon Appstore I probably shouldn't expect different, but it's a bummer that you apparently won't be able to to load paid Google Playstore apps. I have several reference apps that are paid and would love to run those on my desktop since no web or native app exists.
- eightysixfour 5y ago
  Doesn't Windows have a built in tool to mirror this from an existing Android phone? Clearly not the same, but maybe an option.
IAmMaulik 5y ago
It is just like Apple did with their new M1 MacBooks
- Daedren 5y ago
  Yeah but the question is, would this only be for ARM Windows?
polshaw 5y ago
I run chromeOS as my daily driver, and find a few android apps quite useful (I run linux apps too). There are lots of apps that are mobile-only which are nice to have a second copy of or use the big screen; google maps is possibly my favourite, much better than the web version. There's also just more developer focus on android than windows for a lot of small apps like free VPNs, currency converters etc, leading to better choice/quality/discoverability than native windows apps.
5y ago

magnat 5y ago

No mentions about privacy, more bundled in apps, more "AI", more cloud connectivity. I don't know what I even expected.

NmAmDa 5y ago

> The web was born and grew up on Windows I think CERN engineers while working on web and www protocol were using unix as windows was not even there yet. https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web https://home.cern/science/computing/birth-web

izacus 5y ago
I'm sure they're refering to the undying love every single web developer had for Internet Explorer.
- xattt 5y ago
  That's completely the way I remember it!
- edoceo 5y ago
  IE4 maybe, it was downhill after that.
  - konart 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure this was a sarcastic comment
- okamiueru 5y ago
  I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what they are referring to. What they are clearly suggesting is false, and they should know better. > The web was born and grew up on Windows The first part is just a lie, the second part is open for interpretation, but certainly not the formative years.
- efsavage 5y ago
  In the late 90s, IE4 and then IE5 was the gold standard. We were all ecstatic when we didn't have to support Netscape 4 anymore. It wasn't until Firefox (more specifically Firebug) was mature that IE lost the crown.
  - 5y ago

CozySoy 5y ago

Here they go again, messing with the start menu... Hard to believe that they didn't learn from Windows 8, but they didn't. Also: weren't we told multiple times that there would be no successor to Windows 10? That all future versions of Windows would just be updates?

cblconfederate 5y ago
It will be reversed. Give it a year until windows 12 (The apologetic edition)
topaz0 5y ago
Apparently this will be a free and in-place update from win10, so maybe that is compatible with what they meant by "just updates", even if it is a redesign.
- topaz0 5y ago
  Which, by the way, is pretty strong evidence that you will be the product (even if it weren't for the talk of "weaving in with your life" or whatever).

edgeform 5y ago

Easy to thumb our noses at it, and this community is already on it in spades from the comments so far. I'll wait and see. I like Win10 much more than I thought I would. I rode Win7 into the sunset, only abandoning the ship about a week before they dropped security updates for it because I thought I'd dislike Win10 so much. I even ran Ubuntu as my desktop OS for about four months before switching back over to Microsoft and Win10. I'll wait and see this time.

jlduan 5y ago

Haven't been able to find the release schedule, when will MS deliver it?

Miner49er 5y ago
"The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and continuing into 2022."
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  If marketing has a say in it, I bet November 11th. 2021-11-11
dylan604 5y ago
It will happen one night while you are sleeping in the middle of a time sensitive deadline that will prevent you from doing what you need because several things are now broken after the update you didn't ask for occurred.

Tajnymag 5y ago

Does "free upgrade for eligible PCs" mean there won't be a generally available free upgrade from Win10?

resoluteteeth 5y ago
It probably just means that you can't upgrade if you have a very old computer that recent feature upgrades of Win10 have already dropped support for. Edit: actually some people are saying it may require TPM 2.0

saltysallys 5y ago

So the desktop is in the start menu now? Are icons on the desktop deprecated?

geocrasher 5y ago

My Primary concern with Windows 11 can be described as follows: 98 - ME XP - Vista 7 - 8 10 - 11 Has Microsoft broken the cycle? Time will tell.

masklinn 5y ago
‘Course this is hampered by Windows 2000, which came concurrent to ME and was better than XP.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  Yeah W2K was an oddity that way. I wasn't sure how to fit it in this. But TBH, it wasn't as well adopted as ME or XP and I didn't feel the need to wedge it in there. The point stands, with or without W2K in the mix.
  - TremendousJudge 5y ago
    >as well adopted as ME was ME ever adopted by anyone? I saw more W2K machines than ME back in the day
    - masklinn 5y ago
      I think it was preinstalled on a lot of "consumer" machines, the boxes you'd buy did not usually have 2K instead they replaced 98 with ME. I had one friend with an ME box, and that was the worst POS around, it was so bad. Everybody else was either 2K or linux.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  Enterprise OS built for enterprise needs is > home OS? quelle surprise. That's same now as it was, 10 pro/workstation are better than home.
- dylan604 5y ago
  2000 was back when NT was a separate thing though, right? Didn't they switch to the NT kernel for everything after that?

imwillofficial 5y ago

“The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products.” Steve Jobs Triumph of the Nerds (1996)

croes 5y ago

>Why Microsoft is calling Windows 10 'the last version of Windows' https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-ve... There you see again what Microsoft's statements are worth.

yunohn 5y ago
They’re doing a free upgrade for W10 users, and making a new “numbered version”, to signify the significant changes. I’m not sure why this is that problematic?
- TheCapn 5y ago
  So I'm not going to need to buy a new license for this? I'm on board. If it pisses me off enough I'll just roll back.
- gnomewascool 5y ago
  > They’re doing a free upgrade for W10 users > *Look for PCs that indicate they are eligible for the free upgrade, or you can check with your retailer for more information. Are they, though?
  - yunohn 5y ago
    They don’t indicate any specific requirements, so presumably it will be free for pretty much everyone with a windows 10 license.
  - FalconSensei 5y ago
    This is probably required by their legal department. Reasons that someone would not update: 1 - No licensed W10 2 - Too old PC - can't work with W11 3 - No MS account or internet connection (as this is a requirement for upgrading)
- GordonS 5y ago
  So, Windows 10 is my daily-driver (Enterprise eds), and I love it. I'm a big fan of Windows in general. But Microsoft did say that Windows 10 was going to be theast version of Windows, with incremental updates thereafter; I don't see why they need to change that to accommodate what appears to be little more than an unwanted UI refresh with more crappy AI-driven news feeds that nobody wants. From everything I've seen, Windows 11 looks like it's very much an incremental update over the Windows 10 of today. So why not have a Windows 10 feature update? What is the point of this?

kayson 5y ago

So much for Windows 10 being the last version of windows...[1] [1] https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-10-the-last-version-of-windows https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-10-the-last-version-of-wi...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dekhn 5y ago

The only real question is, will I still be able to get to the Network card configuration page that's been the same for the last 15-20 years? I use it daily. They've just put it behind more and more "nicce looking, but non-functional" network management UIs,.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
Oh yeah.. I fucking hate Windows 10, a few weeks ago I had to check these settings and I got lost every time.. I think they've completed the web-pagization of the control panel nowadays.
- dekhn 5y ago
  Well, right now it's: Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Network and Internet -> Network and Sharing Center -> Change adapter settings. I'm sure they will add " -> Ad for Steve Ballmer's Basketball Team -> ".
  - 8note 5y ago
    I think I can still get to that view by right clicking on the bottom right thing for wifi
- Koshkin 5y ago
  Linux desktop is getting there... (Not sure, though, what an "ideal" UNIX desktop is supposed to be like.)
- jhowison 5y ago
  Win + R, control netconnections
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
garaetjjte 5y ago
Classic network configuration is not good UI by any means, claustrophobic non-resizable windows with complicated nested hierarchy. But they somehow managed to make "Settings" not better, with huge whitespace and a lot less functional...

Strom 5y ago

Apparently the Home edition will require a Microsoft account and an internet connection. [1] Can't say I'm looking forward to this. All my Windows installations are with local accounts and I would like to keep it that way. Microsoft has already made it incredibly obnoxious to achieve this with the latest Windows 10 setups, where you have to make sure your computer is not connected to the internet to even unlock the fallback local account creation option. [2] A sad day indeed if this is no longer possible. -- [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22548480/windows-11-home-internet-connection-set-up https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22548480/windows-11-home-... [2] https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/ https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-...

toomanyducks 5y ago
I think a recent version of Windows I had the misfortune of setting up also required a Ms account: no option for a local install. It's also possible that I'm just stupid and didn't see it, but (shrug)
- simiones 5y ago
  It should, even on the latest Window 10 builds, but only if your computer is not connected to the Internet...
- rytcio 5y ago
  The secret is you have to install Windows 10 with the network disconnected. If it doesn't detect a network connection, it lets you create a local account
- 45ure 5y ago
  You can bypass it by either turning off the network connection prior to a new/clean installation on 20H2/21H1. If you are stuck on the account screen during the installation process, then entering wrong credentials 3 times will present you with a local account option. However, if you have completed installation, then there is an option to turn it into a local account in Settings --> User Accounts --> Change your account type.

contravariant 5y ago

> Start utilizes the power of the cloud and Microsoft 365 to show you your recent files no matter what platform or device you were viewing them on earlier Well, consider me scared.

Spivak 5y ago
I mean this is basically just iCloud and users generally adore it. Having deep integration to say things like “get me the document I was working on my phone” or a global browser history search is really freakin cool.
- contravariant 5y ago
  I really don't need microsoft harvesting my personal documents and telemetry to power a start menu. I'd be happy if they could finally get round to answering questions like "open the file called file.ext", rather than doing something terrifying like guessing what I might have meant by uploading absolutely everything to their own servers.

iscrewyou 5y ago

Advanced System Settings > (Performance) Settings > Adjust for Best Performance > Apply and OK.

matthewfcarlson 5y ago

I know I’m a former microsoft employee so I’m a bit biased, but man the quality of these presentations are awesome. Panos is the best salesperson I’ve ever had the chance to meet.

drakenot 5y ago

The prominence of that Game Store in the Windows 11 press materials is, I guess, part of the motivation Valve has had for investing in Linux gaming.

bluedino 5y ago

"The free upgrade will begin to roll out to eligible Windows 10 PCs this holiday and continuing into 2022." This is a very un-American sounding sentence.

breakingcups 5y ago
Their real money is not in the Windows 11 license anymore. It's in the tight Microsoft account integration, the recurring revenue for 365/OneDrive, etc.

neogodless 5y ago

Here's a tool to check if your PC meets the hardware requirements[0]. However, it looks like many modern systems don't have TPM 2.0 enabled in the BIOS, and will come back with "This PC can't run Windows 11" (including mine - Asus Prime X470 Pro with Ryzen 2700X, 32GB RAM, 1.5TB storage, Radeon RX 5600 XT.) [0] https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/d/d/1dd9969b-bc9a-41bc-8455-bc657c939b47/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/d/d/1dd9969b-bc9a-...

bugfix 5y ago
Apparently, my 3yo desktop isn't compatible (Gigabyte Z270X Ultra). I really doubt people will upgrade their hardware just to use Windows 11.
- taviso 5y ago
  That doesn't sound right, search around in the BIOS for "Platform Trust Technology" or "PTT". If it's disabled, change it to enabled.
  - bugfix 5y ago
    Just enabled PTT in the BIOS, but the tool still says my computer is not compatible (but it doesn't tell me exactly why).
    - aarongolliver 5y ago
      You probably only have the header on your motherboard, without a tpm module actually plugged in. Mine was like this, and the specs for your motherboard suggest this is also the case for you. You can buy them on online pretty cheap (I got one for $20)
      - taviso 5y ago
        PTT is part of the CPU, no external TPM module is necessary. PTT is Intel's implementation, AMD have something similar called fTPM. You do not need any external module on machines with fTPM/PTT support (i.e. if you bought it in the last few years).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kinduff 5y ago

I like it and I'm excited to install it. I've been enjoying a lot this "new" Microsoft, including all the WSL that they brought. New UI looks macOS-ish but looks fresh at the same time.

tibbydudeza 5y ago

MS Teams client built in and the ability to run Android apps via the App Store.

gostsamo 5y ago

> For creators and publishers, Widgets also opens new real estate within Windows to deliver personalized content. This is nothing but very deep penetration in the user's personal space.

lxe 5y ago

> We’re also announcing a progressive change to our revenue share policies where app developers can now bring their own commerce into our Store and keep 100% of the revenue – Microsoft takes nothing. Nicely done!

bogwog 5y ago
One would have to be incredibly naive to fall for that. They're just going to bring that fee back later when/if people actually start using their store. Windows has a lot of problems, but as of yet the world has been fortunate enough to avoid it becoming another walled garden. Actually using their store, either as a developer or consumer, is a sure-fire way to fuck that up for everyone.

jandrese 5y ago

Do you think they finally finished the control panel transition? Window 10's control panel thing feels like it was stopped halfway through development, so they left the old stuff in there but made it hard to access. Unfortunately most of the time when you need to change something it's not on the new control panel so you have to dig for the old one instead. When Windows 10 was first released I figured they would finish up the new control panel and deprecate the old one, but instead several years have passed with no progress whatsoever on the problem and it is still a pain point with Windows 10. Certainly it can't be that hard to copy over the missing features? Did the control panel team quit en-masse in 2015?

freeone3000 5y ago
Control panel allowed for third-party add-ins. settings doesn't. Until CPLs are migrated, Control Panel stays
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  wasnt a hierarchical, folder-like control panel more usable anyway? They just needed to figure out a more sane hierarchy.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  But there are still non-third-party things in Control Panel. Microsoft hasn't moved all their own settings over to Settings.
  - layer8 5y ago
    Third-party add-ins add additional tabs to Microsoft’s Control Panel items. Microsoft can’t just remove them.
    - nxc18 5y ago
      If Microsoft really wanted to, they could find a way to squeeze the old panels into the new UI. They can run x86 binaries on ARM, and all sorts of other tricks, its not like they lack the engineering talent. They also do loads of shims/special treatments for specific apps based on a compatibility database. Worst case scenario, they could rewrite the top ~100 most common ones and make “Legacy Control Panel” an optional feature that is off by default. It has been 5+ years since Windows 10 came out, longer since 8, Microsoft really doesn’t need people making excuses for them.

w-m 5y ago

In the video, they're spending the first 20 seconds filing down the corners of the logo, having a big reveal of the blue Windows logo with rounded corners. This leads into the rest of the feature reveal, all round things now. But in the "end credits", the same blue Windows logo is back to its sharp cornered self again. Is this a subtle hint to the UI inconsistencies that are still to be expected after the major version bump, or is there another meaning?

srg0 5y ago
Windows 11 logo uses rounded corners. The official Microsoft logo is still flat square.

lupinglade 5y ago

What about removing all the old crud at some point? All this disorganized layering makes windows feel like a schizophrenic operating system. At some point they have to realize they have to start cleaning up the mess, right?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Why? None of their competitors do.
- lupinglade 5y ago
  Really? Have you ever used Apple's platforms?
  - dlvktrsh 5y ago
    that's a good argument but there are so many things that macOS can't do that windows can (legacy support, endless tinkering with relative ease. maybe more things but i think these two things encompass a lot more and are the main reasons holding windows back from being the same as the oh so esteemed macOS)

ezequiel-garzon 5y ago

At a time when the PC is playing a more central role in our lives Oh, come on! That trend has peaked long ago, and you guys know it. And I type this using Windows 10, quite happily I might add, but unless you take a what's-a-computer approach that lumps cell phones with desktop PCs and everything in between, that is a ridiculous (opening!) statement.

simiones 5y ago
Well, with the pandemic and general shift to learn-from-home and work-from-home, I would say that they are not wrong.
cblconfederate 5y ago
pc sales are up

okamiueru 5y ago

The main thing that would be of interest to me: - Have they replaced/improved the NT kernel [1]? - Have they replaced the ancient registry? [2] The answer to either was not to be found. I'll bet windows 11 will still be a backwards-compatible mess if the answer to either is `no`. [1]: http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-we-are-slower-than-other-oper/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-w... [2]: https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-registry-sucks-technically/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-regist...

Tempest1981 5y ago
There is a developer-focused event soon. But I wouldn't expect significant changes. Probably more focus on Teams and Store apps. At noon PDT: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egZ82QGshX8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egZ82QGshX8 Possible content: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/24/what-windows-11-means-for-developers/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/24/what-w...
- okamiueru 5y ago
  I would also be surprised if there are significant changes. Windows is a marvel at being backwards compatible, which I doubt they will be able to get away from. Here's to hoping. Do you know when that dev conference is? Edit: Saw your edit answered my question. Thanks :)
nathanaldensr 5y ago
Having a consistent UI development framework would be a good start. WPF is no longer maintained and UWP brings with it the crappy Store and limited sandboxed capabilities.

AnonHP 5y ago

I can’t wait to see if Control Panel is still around with those network interface dialogs (among many others) from nearly two decades ago. The new dock or taskbar looks nicer, but something about the window styles, the shape, the icons and the fonts still looks as ugly as they are on Windows 10.

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago

Is there anything Microsoft could do with the OS that would really matter? Corporate purchases account for what?, 80%?, 90%? of Windows sales? My prediction: This version will still have (nearly) weekly root-level 0-day patches, but companies will continue to eat it up with a fork and spoon, because it lets them do such things as dictate to their corporate laptop fleet how long the screensaver can run before it locks. And the relatively few people who choose to use the OS for gaming (or on their Surface) will find things to be happy about, and life will go on as usual.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

So, almost all the new “features” are about forcing Microsoft services onto users, really cool.

croes 5y ago

This could be a deal breaker Minimum system requirements: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11

intrasight 5y ago

I had assumed/hoped that the next version of windows would be built atop Linux.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I can think of no reason for anyone to seriously believe such a thing would happen. Most of Windows's value comes from its backwards compatibility, and they'd have to rebuild most of the userspace on top of Linux which doesn't make much sense since they already have a good kernel that they own completely.

leucineleprec0n 5y ago

Am I the only one who likes the padded, easy-to-read UI but just wishes MS would actually implement it across the OS? I don't want MacOS infinitesimal icons nor windows xp aesthetics. I like what they're doing, there is just a lot of variance left which is where e.g. apple does a good job.

distrill 5y ago

Everyone jokes about it finally being "the year of the linux desktop", but a few years ago that actually did happen to my circle. Between a mac for work and linux at home, I actually haven't touched windows in a number of years at this point, and interestingly, neither have a reasonable number of the technical people I interact with. Of the nontechnical people around me, many of them have transitioned to primarily use their phone or sometimes a tablet. The only people I know who still use windows adamantly are PC gamers, and they're all still on windows 7. Is windows still considered the default home computing environment? Since they're totally out of mobile at this point, I wonder by what margin, and how long that will actually last. I suppose there is still the corporate world that isn't all in on on apple, that may not change for some time.

valine 5y ago
I've been running Linux on my personal desktop for years now. Unless you want to play games or require it for work I'm not sure what advantages windows really has anymore. Linux is noticeably faster, has no ads, and is Unix based.
- kgraves 5y ago
  Windows also has Linux now. I can play Windows games and use Linux on Windows (WSL) I don’t see the point of running Linux distros on bare metal anymore.
  - valine 5y ago
    Bare metal Linux is much faster than Linux on windows in my experience. Also does nothing to address all the other windows rot like ads in the start menu and excessive telemetry.
  - distrill 5y ago
    WSL is a nice to have gnu inside of windows, but one of the reasons I switched to linux was because I enjoyed setting up a window manager and configuring my status bar, writing custom scripts for keybindings, general fiddling. There are distros that compete with windows in the UI space, and maybe those don't make much sense anymore. I'm sort of answering my own question here too - people that don't love tinkering for its own sake may not ever be driven away from windows.

captainmuon 5y ago

Disappointed that it is not going to look exactly like the renderings in the video, with the physically rendered glass panes and slight perspective. I think the processing power required would be negligible compared to any modern game. Instead, it is going to be flat design with some blur and more gradients. Remember when people were excited about a new OS version, with a new cool design? Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP?

olyjohn 5y ago
It used to be exciting, because it didn't used to feel so half assed. Nowadays, you watch these videos and it's the same drivel... more cloud connected, more apps, more online accounts... share your photos, make a video call, sit in the woods with your Surface and work while on vacation... that kinda garbage.
cblconfederate 5y ago
i dont know, compiz and other compositing window managers with wobbly windows were kind of fun

grishka 5y ago

And they still insist that touchscreens on computers are a practical thing and thus make everything huge.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

cestith 5y ago

I wonder what Sir Tim Berners-Lee would have to say about the Web being born on Windows. Both WorldWideWeb (the first Web browser) and CERN httpd (the first Web server) were developed on NeXTSTEP.

bigtex 5y ago

Any mention of Windows 11 for ARM?

qyi 5y ago

There was a 10?

poisonborz 5y ago

I had a really hard time watching the presentation, regardless of the features presented. Panos Panay continously referred to Windows as "the product", they presented years-old feature like multi-desktop, and the maybe biggest news, Android apps, was just mentioned as side info.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

if yellow journalism pays so much that microsoft is hell bent on shoving "personalised news feed" down peoples throats afer msn homepage on browsers and now on the desktop, why do news outlets beg for "dont block ads, we need ad revenue or buy subscription"? just take that from microsoft and be done with it

least 5y ago

I'm really happy about the new functionality for window management in Windows 11, particularly the grouped applications that you can maximize or minimize together. I also like that they're emphasizing different workspaces for different tasks, as this is much how I work with MacOS' spaces. Similarly I'd think that people used to automatic tiling window managers in linux would be familiar and appreciate the advantages of this workflow. The added tiling features that go beyond what is already a pretty competent window manager is welcome. I'm assuming they are drawing a lot of that from their powertoys fancy zones [1] application. Hopefully the added docking features and how they treat windows really is as good as they are demoing. I hope that there is some way to navigate to the individual workspaces by a keybind built into Windows, though. As it is in Windows 10, you can't (as far as I know) bind an arbitrary hotkey to focus a specific workspace, you have to navigate them directionally which makes it much harder for me to use for what I use them for. I also got the impression that changing themes like from light to dark mode is going to be a much better experience (one that's intended to happen often) with smooth animations between them. Windows 10 currently does allow you to change from light to dark mode but there's no way to automatically switch them by sunrise/sunset like it exists in MacOS. Mojave also featured bad animations when it added dark mode to MacOS but today does it much more gracefully. I'm extremely skeptical of any sort of improvement on their search/launcher, which is hilariously bad when compared against spotlight's index (which powers spotlight and many third party applications like alfred and launchbar) or even kde's krunner or applications like rofi. If there is a meaningful change here it'd be the most exciting for me, though. Overall I don't know that it needs a numbered update or not, but one advantage of having big numbered releases is that it gives you an opportunity to highlight a lot of new features at once, rather than only hearing about them through enthusiast blogs who are carefully watching the rolling releases of Windows 10. Hopefully the features work as well as advertised. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzones https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/fancyzone...

dang 5y ago

Related ongoing thread: Microsoft announces Windows 11 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27618805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27618805

croes 5y ago

Built in Teams in Windows 11, sounds like new anti trust is coming.

DanTheManPR 5y ago

I wonder if they'll finally make it possible for more than one instance of Settings to be open.

giomasce 5y ago

"From the new Start button and taskbar to each sound, font and icon, everything was done intentionally to put you in control and bring a sense of calm and ease". It is important to carefully polish icons to put users in control.

codeulike 5y ago

Omg they put the start button in the middle I hate it I hate it

Scramblejams 5y ago

Could 11 solve some of my Windows gripes? (experienced on Win 10 Pro and LTSC, not on a domain so no group policy applied) Unfortunately I doubt it: For me, window focus handling has gotten noticeably worse in the past couple of years. A window will pop up, I'll start typing, the keypresses won't go into the window, then I'll hit alt+tab twice to switch away and then back, and then the keypresses will magically start landing. Anybody else notice this? The lack of a proper inode-based filesystem means I'm frequently having to terminate processes during builds because something is holding open a file that needs to be replaced. It's 2021. Linux and MacOS don't have this problem, when will this finally get solved? My laptop sometimes turns into a jet engine because one of many aggressive background processes goes nuts for a short period. Which one varies -- it could be Compatibility Telemetry (tried turning it off, didn't stay off), Superfetch, search indexing, etc. Especially frustrating when I'm on battery. Suspend doesn't always stay suspended. Too many times I've pulled a hot laptop out of a backpack. I've tried all the Internet-suggested fixes to no avail, so I had to give up on suspend. The start menu at some point became non-deterministic, so I can't use muscle memory to open things without looking. For example when I hit the start menu and type "bash", half the time "Git Bash" is the highlighted option, half the time it's WSL's bash. The start menu has been corrupted by Cortana. Sometimes figuratively, where it doesn't immediately respond to keypresses because it's apparently trying to load something and finally stutters open. Sometimes literally, where text search stops working for local apps and the only fix is to reinstall Windows. (Tried all of the internet-suggested fixes, tried an experienced Windows IT guy, etc.) The installer's lack of flexibility and compatibility is horrible. Not a problem if you only ever get Windows on a new PC, but for those of us who re/install things, it's horrible. Even Debian's text installer is more flexible and reliable than what MS gives us. Now when I install Windows on a dual boot system I keep Linux on a separate device and remove the Linux device before installing Windows, just so Windows won't put its EFI config on the wrong drive (yep, that happened). Don't get me started on the user hostile telemetry, how awful the event viewer is when you're trying to figure out what's going wrong, rebooting despite me telling it not to, the unwanted game installs (on Pro!) just so the App Store group can claim some success story, etc. And I've got more but it's almost too easy...

eximius 5y ago

Oh hell. I need to figure out how to do GPU passthrough for VMs for gaming so I can ditch it once and for all. I'm not putting up with more and more junk.

hrez 5y ago

What I want is modern performant filesystem with checksumming for data/metadata, zstd, ssd-optimized, perhaps cow/snapshots. Basically I want btrfs. ReFS was that promise but AFAIK it's still not bootable, mirror required, no compression. In short, unusable for non-servers.

virgulino 5y ago

No 1st gen AMD Zen support: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... Zen+ supported. I wonder why.

varispeed 5y ago

This Windows update is a car crash. Seems like another data grab by shoving Teams spyware down people throats. I like the dig at Google with Amazon Android (to which you need another account and another company sticking their greasy fingers into your data pie). I just hope that this "upgrade" is optional and they will not start to age Windows 10 with updates designed to slow the operating system. I was actually hoping that Windows 11 will become a window manager on top of a Linux with compatibility layer to run Windows 10 apps. Oh well.

nxc18 5y ago

I just want them to include a Windows license in my Microsoft 365 subscription and let me install it on my M1 (or Intel) Mac. I don’t understand why the business folks at MS haven’t noticed that opportunity. Separately, I’d like to see a return to the concept of “Trusted Computing”. In the Windows XP/Vista days, telemetry was opt-in (sometimes with a nudge). Office wouldn’t send my grammar telemetry to MS without letting me see it and remove items first. There was an option to just turn it all off. I get why MS wants telemetry, but they would win a lot of good will by giving power users an easy way to opt out. I think relatively few would do it in practice and they’d lose some of the bad press. Greater UI consistency would be nice as well but that isn’t exactly on brand for them, so not holding my breath.

magnetowasright 5y ago
I don’t think good will or good publicity matters, and MS knows it. If the telemetry, spam reinstalling, changing user settings, user document deleting, work interrupting crap they pull with Win10 hasn’t caused a significant number of users to abandon ship, I am not sure what will.
- nxc18 5y ago
  True, all good points. I just wish software companies were more motivated by craftsmanship and love for users. I remember in college they would always emphasize user obsession at the recruiting events. Apparently I drank more of that koolaid than the people they ended up hiring.

muyuu 5y ago

do you guys anticipate an uptick in Linux/BSD/Mac adoption?

desktopninja 5y ago

Hope W11 brings back the installation option "Compact". Personally just want the base OS.

stonecharioteer 5y ago

No text-based configuration or headless systems yet again. This truly is a non-developer-friendly OS.