14 ms·
Costa Rica Has Run on 100% Renewable Electricity for 299 Days
- belter 5y agoPortugal also got good results recently: "Renewables produce 79.5% of Portugal's power in Q1 2021" https://renewablesnow.com/news/renewables-produce-795-of-portugals-power-in-q1-2021-737883/ https://renewablesnow.com/news/renewables-produce-795-of-por...
- belval 5y agoIs there an easy answer as to why Costa Rica is doing so well? They seem to be a bit of an exception in Central/South America. EDIT: From Wikipedia "It is known for its long-standing and stable democracy, and for its highly educated workforce, most of whom speak English. The country spends roughly 6.9% of its budget (2016) on education, compared to a global average of 4.4%. Its economy, once heavily dependent on agriculture, has diversified to include sectors such as finance, corporate services for foreign companies, pharmaceuticals, and ecotourism. Many foreign manufacturing and services companies operate in Costa Rica's Free Trade Zones (FTZ) where they benefit from investment and tax incentives."
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- JohnHaugeland 5y agothey're tiny, non-industrial, and they don't track brownouts
- leesalminen 5y agoI live part-time in Costa Rica. Brownouts occur 1-4x every day. It’s usually just a few seconds and not all that bad. The worst part is when you have to restart the dishwasher.
- belval 5y agoI've read about expats praising Costa Rica for its low costs and beautiful properties that foreigners can buy. How was your experience there?
- leesalminen 5y agoIt took about 2 months of us being there to pull the trigger and buy a house. Costs for most things are low, except for cars. Cars are insanely expensive due to the ~50% import tax. Electricity is also fairly expensive per KWH. The people are very nice and generally welcoming to foreigners. You never run out of things to do, either. There’s always another adventure to explore. Fiber internet is accessible in most areas I’ve been to. Pretty reliable to boot. I’ve never had an issue Zooming etc. It really is extremely beautiful. Overall, we have very few complaints about the country.
- megabless123 5y agohow about the weather and climate?
- Cd00d 5y agoThat import tax on cars is interesting. Several years ago I sold a used Toyota Echo that I'd had for ~12 years, but had maintained nicely. The buyer's whole effort was buying used Echos and shipping them to Costa Rica. I thought that was pretty niche, but I guess a very reliable and quite cheap car finding a home in a place where prices high makes a lot of sense. Thanks for helping make the pieces fit.
- bberenberg 5y agoI believe one of the reasons is they don't have defense spending per-se. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Force_of_Costa_Rica#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Force_of_Costa_Rica#His... They let the US handle all of that for them, and they spend funds on power. This isn't to say that they're an infrastructure paradise. A region I visited had poor roads and internet connectivity.
- silicon2401 5y agoThis is my understanding. With the US supporting them, it makes certain things a bit easier. I've also visited and depending where you go, it certainly isn't some kind of sci-fi utopia. Crime and poverty are still tragically rampant. But we should certainly celebrate their renewable achievement as that's a massive victory for any nation.
- asdff 5y agoCrime and poverty are rampant in parts of the US too
- silicon2401 5y agoThat has nothing to do with a conversation about Costa Rica.
- foobarian 5y agoReminds me of an old communist joke/jab at the capitalists' expense: "A small African country's cabinet is meeting to come up with solutions for the bleak economic situation. One minister says: 'I know! Let's declare war on the United States! After they invade us they will have to support us.' Everyone murmurs in agreement at the clever plan. However one last minister is not convinced and says: 'But... what if we win?'"
- mikro2nd 5y agoSee also the (old) movie, "The Mouse that Roared". Follows exactly that theme. Peter Sellers playing about four different roles.
- samfisher83 5y agoLots of wind and hydro. Plus they use 1/6th energy of us. Edit: why the downvotes? Just because I mentioned they use way less power than the US?
- leesalminen 5y agoHydro is a huge part of it. The amount of water flowing from the mountains to the ocean is almost incomprehensible for a Coloradan like me.
- lesterzone 5y agoYet Nicoya is dry most part of the year
- hannob 5y agoMix of a country well suited for hydropower (+geothermal) and political will. It's obviously easier for a country with lots of hydropower to go 100% renewable, as you have a potentially flexible source that not everyone has.
- JohnHaugeland 5y agoit's a complete fiction, if you bother to look
- NortySpock 5y agoLinks to sources would go a long way to helping your case. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens.
- anonymouse008 5y ago[Flagged]
- martin_a 5y ago"Shitty quotes won't get you far on HN" - Abraham Lincoln
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- JohnHaugeland 5y ago> Links to sources would go a long way to helping your case. Anyone who would actually listen looked it up when I said it, and learned something. The redditors demanded a field guide, and got nothing.
- toomuchtodo 5y agohttps://www.electricitymap.org/zone/CR?wind=false&solar=false https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/CR?wind=false&solar=fals... (Electricitymap.org: Costa Rica) 2.36GW of total hydro generating capacity, 595MW of wind, and 1.64GW of geothermal, as well as interconnectors with Panama and Nicaragua to export excess renewables generation (or import when in nation generation isn't meeting consumption). With CR's favorable geography for hydro, it'd make a lot of sense for central america to more tightly integrate their electrical grid, similar to how Tasmania's hydro capacity in Australia is used as a "big battery" for the rest of the NEM (eastern AUS electrical grid). In the above link I provide, the interconnectors are shown with real time usage data below generator capacity for each country/grid.
- lesterzone 5y agoCosta Rican resident here. Costa Rica invest a lot in renewables. Tourism is a huge income. There are lots of places to visit. Hundreds of volcanoes, 7 active. The climate, it can rain and then sunny...several times a day. Costa Rica exports technology. Intel, MS,Google...Several start ups...lots of outsourcing jobs.
- shadowgovt 5y agoHad the honor of visiting years ago. It really is a gorgeous country.
- sergiomattei 5y agoPura vida!
- lr4444lr 5y agoWhat do you think is holding back its GDP per capita from competing with the top rankers?
- ffhhj 5y agoI'm not the OP, but while the small population in CR is enthusiastic about technology and education, the cultural trend is having a simple and happy life, not being overly ambitious, and there isn't much artistic/technological creativity or innovation. The best workers easily find jobs in other countries: Canada, USA, UK, Germany, Taiwan, New Zealand, and so on.
- elboru 5y agoTalking about outsourcing work, I'm from Mexico, I work with nearshore development teams and it amazes me how well represented Costa Rican developers are in the industry (considering Costa Rica has a population of 5 million people). I've met several great Costa Rican developers. My next vacations after the pandemic will definitely be in Costa Rica. Pura vida!
- AdrianB1 5y ago
- nicoburns 5y agoNot pissing off the United States? My understanding is that most Central and some South American countries have had their governments intentionally destabilised by the US because they were perceived as too left wing.
- sjm 5y agoThis has to be a huge part and it's sad but not surprising that you're being downvoted here. Almost every other country in Latin America has either been invaded by the US, or has gone through US-backed coups, economic sanctions during the cold war, etc. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
- 34679 5y agoFrom your link: Tensions between government and the opposition, supported by the CIA, caused the short-lived Costa Rican Civil War of 1948 that ended Calderón's government and led to the short de facto rule of 18 months by José Figueres Ferrer.
- sjm 5y agoYeah, not strictly zero intervention of course (a socialist won a democratic election and the US wasn't going to have it), but compared to other countries it was shorter-lived and longer ago.
- neartheplain 5y agoSounds like he had an interesting relationship with the CIA, to say the least: >"At the time, I was conspiring against the Latin American dictatorships and wanted help from the United States", he recalled. "I was a good friend of Allen Dulles." >"Anyway", Mr. Figueres went on, "the C.I.A.'s Cultural Department helped me finance a magazine and some youth conferences here. But I never participated in espionage. I did beg them not to carry out the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, which was madness, but they ignored me." >Figueres backed the leftist Sandinista revolution in neighboring Nicaragua that overthrew dictator Anastasio Somoza Debayle in 1979. He railed against U.S. policy when the United States supported Nicaragua's Contra guerrillas. It also reads as though his 1958 testimony before Congress [0] shamed the CIA into facilitating the assassination of Rafael Trujillo, a bloody right-wing dictator who Figueres all but named: >"If you’re going to speak of human dignity in Russia, why is it so hard to speak of human dignity in the Dominican Republic? Where is intervention and where is non-intervention? Is it that a simple threat, a potential one, to your liberties, is, essentially, more serious than the kidnapping of our liberties?" >With Figueres as sponsor, Bosch and Ornes agreed to form a coalition government in anticipation of the overthrow of dictator Rafael Trujillo. Such a fascinating figure. Amazed I never knew his name before now. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Figueres_Ferrer#1958_testimony_before_U.S._Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Figueres_Ferrer#1958... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Trujillo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Trujillo
- mc32 5y agoIt probably helps that pop growth compared to like countries was lower, so they have a more balanced age distribution.
- darzu 5y agoThey also invested early in preserving their nature and establishing parks. Additionally, all their beaches are public. It’s illegal to build a fence on the ocean. These have contributed to large tourism income.
- wwweston 5y agoIIRC part of the answer is that they had a successful revolution led by principled people who realized that cultural capital is just as important as power and in fact maybe keeping a standing army had problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Figueres_Ferrer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Figueres_Ferrer https://www.spanishpuravida.com/why-costa-rica-has-no-army/ https://www.spanishpuravida.com/why-costa-rica-has-no-army/
- api 5y agoA standing army creates a ton of problems, but what happens if nobody has a standing army? Seems like someone has to play cop and eat the cost (both social and economic) of doing so.
- mikro2nd 5y agoI think that, "what happens if nobody has a standing army?" is an interesting question. What I don't understand is why you think that "someone has to play cop"...?
- Bayart 5y agoIf you go by historical data, when nobody has a standing army everybody has mercenaries (which leads to instability at scale).
- emidln 5y agoOr someone gets the bright idea of putting together an army and conquering their neighbors (who don't have a standing army and are relying on Mercenaries who keep a good feel on which way the wind is blowing (and who will have the money to pay them in the future)).
- amalcon 5y agoThe neighbors, not being stupid, notice this and build their own standing armies (or at least conscript militias). Which is why historically, the situation where there are no armies or militias is so rare: it's not a Nash equilibrium.
- sadfasf122 5y agoTiny country that has very little industry?
- KineticLensman 5y ago> Tiny country that has very little industry? Pharmaceuticals, financial outsourcing, software development, and ecotourism have become the prime industries in Costa Rica's economy. High levels of education among its residents make the country an attractive investing location. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica#Trade_and_foreign_investment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica#Trade_and_foreign_i...
- mnouquet 5y agoNone of these qualify as "industry" being mostly tertiary.
- KineticLensman 5y ago>> The country's Free Trade Zones provide incentives for manufacturing and service industries to operate in Costa Rica. In 2015, the zones supported over 82 thousand direct jobs and 43 thousand indirect jobs.
- reubenswartz 5y agoAside from the many interesting answers in this thread, one thing that struck me when I visited was someone telling me that the terrain was more mountainous than some of the countries to the north, making the plantation economy that the Spanish installed less profitable, so you didn't have as much of the aristocracy/serf divide. This tends to lead to healthier political systems...
- pydry 5y agoMost of South/Latin America is afflicted by the resource curse.
- ffhhj 5y agoThe reason is Costa Rica, while being a colony of Spain, used to trade a lot with UK, specially tobacco. Also had good relations with the US. For that reason it has one of the first electrified cities in the world. The army was removed before the cold war started, and CR was neutral in the game that USA-USSR played in all Latin America, of placing and destroying governments (Iran-Contra, CIA drugs, Noriega, etc). Also the savings are transferred to education and infrastructure. The lands in CR aren't as fertile as the rest of Central America, but it has plenty of water from the mountain ranges. It can sell hydro-power to its neighbors. Also the geography detour hurricanes which means more savings from reconstruction. Intel factory was established with the help of national electronic engineers who studied their careers in Germany.
- d4mi3n 5y agoEco tourism is huuuge in Costa Rica, and the local peoples greatly value both the cultural and economic value of conservation. I don't think that explains why they've been successful when others have not, but I'd be surprised if leadership and it's constituents there did not at least have the political will to do whatever it needed to to maintain the beauty of the country--it's literally their livelihood.
- gamegoblin 5y agoThe book "Why Nations Fail" and the followup by the same authors "The Narrow Corridor" paints a fairly convincing picture that the success or failure of many modern Latin American countries is directly correlated with the extent to which the Spanish colonialists were able to enslave/subjugate the indigenous population, and the types of societies and institutions that followed that initial seed. For example, in modern day Bolivia you can overlay a Spanish colonial map detailing how much forced labor must be performed in each region with a modern poverty map and there is still a high degree of correlation. "The Narrow Corridor" has an entire chapter devoted to examining the differences between Costa Rica and its neighbor Guatemala. Guatemala had a large indigenous population that was forced to work on Encomiendas -- essentially Spanish plantations worked by indigenous slaves. This resulted in large swaths of land to be controlled by a few elite. This imbalance eventually results in a highly extractive and exploitative political and economic system. The same 8 families that were major Spanish colonial landowners still essentially run the country (though apparently their power is finally waning). The Castillo family has been the most powerful for literally half a millennium. Contrast this with Costa Rica which was far more sparsely populated. This resulted in small landholders working their own plots of land, and, in the short term, relative poverty compared to other Spanish conquered lands. But being overlooked by the Spanish, and having a wide spread of land ownership across the populace resulted in a homegrown movement of rural democracy. Links for further reading: https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/04/03/the-influence-of-central-american-dynasties-is-ebbing https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/04/03/the-influe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica#Spanish_colonization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica#Spanish_colonizatio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_El_Salvador#The_oligarchy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_El_Salvador#The_oli... (El Salvador, but a similar situation)
- frozenport 5y ago`you can overlay a Spanish colonial map detailing how much forced labor must be performed in each region with a modern poverty map and there is still a high degree of correlation.` Could this be partially attributed the geography, natural resources available in the region. AKA both the Spanish Empire and contemporary society saw the same poverty inducing industries available in those regions?
- throwthrow432 5y ago"Costa Rica had an estimated population of 4,999,441 people. White and Mestizos make up 83.4% of the population" They have the second largest European descendant population in South America after Uruguay. The European culture of support for democracy can be attributed here (not claiming any genetic predisposition).
- notyourwork 5y agoAnecdotal - I spent some time in Costa Rica and was able to interact with some local families. In conversation, it was explained to me that they (parents) want their kids educated and to learn as many languages as they can. Commonly, English, Spanish, French and German. The idea being that the more education and languages their children know the better prepared and enabled they are to leave the country and earn a better wage and life elsewhere. This also results in their children being able to send money home to help care for their family.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- macspoofing 5y ago>Is there an easy answer as to why Costa Rica is doing so well? Yes. Anytime you see an article that says "X country runs on 100% renewable" ... it's hydro-electric power every time. So if your country is blessed with a type of geography that makes hydro electric power viable, you're golden! Solar and Wind cannot power a modern economy without fossil fuel back-up.
- mssundaram 5y agoI'm ignorant - why can't solar and wind provide enough power? What about somewhere like Arizona/Nevada/Utah?
- macspoofing 5y agoBecause those are intermittent power sources. That is, there are times when the wind isn't blowing, and sun isn't shining, and there is no battery technology (now or coming) that is capable of storing enough energy to bridge this intermittency gap. This is why solar and wind need fossil fuel back-up. Natural gas companies are some of the biggest proponents of solar and wind projects.
- gautamcgoel 5y agoCan you elaborate on the "or coming" part of your post? What makes you think batteries won't be substantially better 20 years from now?
- nytgop77 5y agoMy heuristic for pessimism: We use enourmous amounts of energy and we invest enourmous amounts of money in energy production. At the same time we have neglible storage and and neglible investment in storage. some numbers: 194MWh - capacity of Hornsdale Power Reserve in Australia 161 million A$ - it's cost (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve) 4 700 000 MWh - Australia's daily total consumption of energy of all fuel types (https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-consumption https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-consumption) 4700000 / 194 = 24226 - number of same power reserves to store australias power for one day. 24226 * 161 millions = 3.9 trillions of A$ - money needed to build a days capacity in Australia at current price. (for comparison, Australia GDP is near 2 trillion A$, US GDP is 27 trilion A$)
- MomoXenosaga 5y agoNo military. When the Dutch government gave independence to their South American colony of Suriname they advised it: do not create a military. Military in South/Middle America= failure.
- avereveard 5y agoStep one: no heavy industries
- throwaway2037 5y agoWith all that hydro power, I am surprised they do not have a huge aluminium smelting industry!
- rsj_hn 5y agoCosta Rica is an interesting mishmash of neoliberal economic policies and some radical (non-traditional) ideas. non-traditional ideas: * no army * generate most government revenue from sales taxes rather than income taxes * firm commitment to prioritize economic growth over social spending (Costa Rica has among the highest rates of inequality in the OECD) * much higher levels of education spending (7+% of GDP) (but PISA scores in the bottom half of Latin America and they are falling) That said, it has problems common to Latin America: * Low test scores and poor educational outcomes * Declining fertility leading to pension shortfalls * Black/gray markets where a large part of the labor force is employed informally and thus does not make pension contributions or pay income taxes In terms of taxation, there is a 13% sales tax on everything except food and medicine. They do have an income tax, but it's a weird hybrid between a flat tax and a wealth-surcharge, in that the majority of the population pays no income tax at all. Median income in Costa Rica is about 6K and average income is 9K. But your first $10K is tax exempt, those earning 10-18K pay 10%, and the highest bracket is 15%. That is a very different structure than you find in western nations which have upper tax brackets in the range of 40% or even 80%. There is a separate income tax for self-employed workers which goes up to 25%, but again very few self-employed businesses will earn. Costa Rica also has a progressive property tax, starting at .25% and going to .55% with the highest bracket applying to 3 million dollars or more. It has 7 property brackets. Thus there are more than twice as many property tax brackets as there are income tax brackets! Yet because those brackets, like the income brackets, only hit the very high end, overall Costa Rica collects the among the least revenue from income and property taxes compared to the rest of the OECD. It is almost entirely dependent on sales taxes, excise taxes, and social security contributions to fund its budget. It also has a number of free trade zones in which businesses don't pay any taxes at all (neither income, nor import/export) if they meet certain conditions. source: https://www.oecd.org/economy/surveys/costa-rica-2020-OECD-economic-survey-overview.pdf https://www.oecd.org/economy/surveys/costa-rica-2020-OECD-ec...
- gknapp 5y agoI don't have an answer in particular, but I was surprised to discover that Panama is doing just as well, if not better, in most macro-measures (HDI, median income, per capita GDP PPP, etc.) than Costa Rica. Took me by surprise!
- GuB-42 5y agoHere is the key, from the article > Also, Costa Rica can get a lot of rain. With consistent rainfall, their hydroelectric plants can produce a plethora of energy. A quick search lead me to 2/3 hydro. Of course, there are other reasons, but essentially, hydro is almost a perfect way of generating electricity. It is cheap, renewable, and comes with built-in storage. Whether or not it is environmentally friendly is debatable but at least, it produces no emission or waste. The problem is that there is a limited capacity, once you have dammed all the interesting rivers, you can't get any more. Costa Rica just happens to have enough to cover most of their needs. But if they want more, they will have to find another strategy, and that's what they are doing. I guess having that much hydro helps than absorb the peaks of solar and wind. They also have geothermal energy they can exploit. They can also bank on their reputation as a "green" country. So, IMHO, smart decisions on their side, playing on their advantages.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoWithout corruption from top to bottom you can get a lot done. Most bureaucracies and police forces in central america are rotten to the core, and then you have the gangs who take advantage of that. It's a really hard feedback loop to break out of. Costa Rica has managed to beat that.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago> Because of that, the country has an abundance of geothermal renewable sources that account for much of the necessary energy to make the country successfully function. >Also, Costa Rica can get a lot of rain. With consistent rainfall, their hydroelectric plants can produce a plethora of energy. While wind and solar get most of the headlines, it seems that geothermal and hydroelectric are actually more useful in going completely carbon-free because they can produce a consistent base load. Win
- jsjsbdkj 5y agoQuebec gets most of its eletric power from hydroelectric sources (95%), while Ontario gets >60% from nuclear and 26% from hydroelectric. It's wild to compare the breakdown compared to western, oil-rich provinces which are basically 50-50 natural gas and coal-powered. It's also depressing to see how electricity is a distant third to gas and other petroleum products in terms of energy demand - even though the eletric supply is almost 100% renewabe, all those transport trucks and cars far outweigh it. https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-quebec.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr...
- neurotixz 5y agoBased on this page, Quebec is 99.8% renewable. I can confirm that we have no brown-outs. Also - We have a mix of very cold and warm weather, so are consuming lots of energy for heating in winter. - Hydro-Quebec, state-owned utility has a stellar record for maintenance, coverage and capacity management. It also send money back to the gov to support social programs. - Even with all that our electriciyy cost for consumers,,entre rpsies, and industrial is one of the lowest in the world. https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/electricity/report/2017-canadian-renewable-power/province/canadas-renewable-power-landscape-2017-energy-market-analysis-quebec.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commoditie...
- Reason077 5y ago> "We have a mix of very cold and warm weather, so are consuming lots of energy for heating in winter" Are heat pumps / electric heating widely used in Quebec yet? When I lived in Ontario, despite having a very clean grid (nuclear, hydro, wind) and relatively low electricity prices, pretty much every house/building had oil or gas heating. Seems like Scandinavia and Northern Europe are a bit further along in electrification of heating.
- tsjq 5y agoHow much of that is by burning wood chips ?
- toomanybeersies 5y agoAbout 0% [1]. Looks like it's roughly 71.5% hydro, 12.6% geothermal, and 7.5% wind [1] https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/CR https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/CR
- bb101 5y agoWhere did Costa Rica go so right? In the news it always appears to be a bastion of moderation and success, especially when compared to its neighbours.
- BitwiseFool 5y agoCosta Rica is a small nation with favorable geography, a great balance of population and density with some fantastic externalities that let them focus on domestic affairs.
- awakeasleep 5y agoAlso, while its nice, its not especially wealthy, nor situated in a way to become an important geopolitical chess-piece.
- throw_away 5y agono oil
- LightG 5y agono ticket.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mrkstu 5y agoNot being a chess piece also is part of their success however. Don't want to be the mouse under a herd of dancing elephants.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoHe said compared to its neighbors tho
- JohnHaugeland 5y agoby lying about its grid, being non-industrial, and having power demand on par with a city despite having the name of a country vatican city is pretty green too
- spenrose 5y agoRenewables are getting much cheaper every year: * In 2020, the global weighted-average levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) from new capacity additions of onshore wind declined by 13%, compared to 2019. * Over the same period, the LCOE of offshore wind fell by 9% and that of utility-scale solar photovoltaics (PV) by 7%. Source: https://www.irena.org/publications/2021/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2020 https://www.irena.org/publications/2021/Jun/Renewable-Power-...
- cbmuser 5y agoLCOE is not what determines market prices but supply and demand. End customers pay market prices, not production costs. I don’t have any advantage as a customer when electricity is super cheap when it can’t be produced on demand.
- eldaisfish 5y agothose "prices" are misleading and are tantamount to wind and solar propaganda figures. There is a major cost that is not accounted for here - the cost of balancing the grid. When wind turbines aren't spinning and solar PV is dead, the grid continues to function. The generators doing that have a cost and that cost is paid for by the customer. The source of the problem is the variable generator i.e. wind or solar but the LCOE figure does not account for this because that charge is not passed on to the renewable generator. Those costs must be part of the LCOE figure else it is like saying that email costs zero.
- ThomPete 5y agoElectricity is less than 20% of their countrys energy plus they are well positioned for hydro which is only possible certain places.
- testfoobar 5y agoThis is meaningless on a global scale. Globally, we've added more mega watts of coal power for decades. Doesn't look like it is stopping anytime soon. https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants
- berkes 5y agoThis is not meaningless. It is an important data-point. One that clearly proves it is possible. One that teaches what works and what not. Those data-points are crucial for other countries or political groups to be swayed and convinced. It may be meaningless for global greenhouse-gas emission reduction in itself, true. But for "the movement" it is an important milestone.
- testfoobar 5y agoMeaningless because the lessons of Costa Rica do not apply in the largest carbon generating economies.
- eldaisfish 5y agoWhile meaningless may not be the best choice of word, Costa Rica's success with hydro is borderline useless to the majority of the world that does not have geography for a dam. Hydro energy works, what exactly is novel or meaningful about that? the title here is 100% clickbait as it frames the situation as "renewables" work when the accurate claim is "hydro + a small population" works.
- trefgin 5y agoThe thing that really pisses me off is that governments in the past worked SO HARD to argue that renewable energy could never work.
- afterburner 5y agoCorporate lobbying
- tohmasu 5y agoWhat government would that be? Hydro has been a mainstay for 70+ years.
- macspoofing 5y ago>The thing that really pisses me off is that governments in the past worked SO HARD to argue that renewable energy could never work. Nobody ever denied the fact that Hydro is viable. You're getting confused by the misleading title because you think that it's wind and solar that is powering Costa Rica .. it isn't. It's hydro.
- robertlagrant 5y agoIn this, possibly the best possible environment for it, it works 80% of the time.
- asdff 5y agoNixon actually wanted to build 1000 nuclear power plants in the U.S. by the year 2000. Today there 60. Governments of the past didn't argue against renewable energy, they gave up on renewable energy in the face of political opposition, which ironically at the time came from the anti-nuclear left.
- ncmncm 5y agoNixon wanted to build nukes because nuke construction projects are almost ideal conduits for graft. When a nuke plant construction project goes 400% over budget and 3x over schedule, do we get 400% more nuke plant? No, but every penny goes into somebody's pocket. The ratepayers invariably end up paying through the nose. This is part of why small-scale factory-built nukes never found a foothold in the US. There just isn't the scope for wholly-legal corruption to generate the institutional support that big nukes got.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoThis is great news. It makes me wonder if their homes or other buildings skew towards vernacular design and/or passive solar design.
- tzamora 5y agoNo, we don't have any special design for our homes. It's just that we have lots of energy for our small country, all from our hydro plants and our volcanos, we have so much energy that we sell it to 6 more countries in the central America region.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoThank you for replying Vernacular design is just very localized design using local materials and suited to local weather. It's like adobe homes in the American Southwest and igloos in Alaska. What is a typical home like there? How are they heated and cooled?
- leesalminen 5y agoOur house in Costa Rica was built with cinder blocks on a concrete pad. Very different from the wooden framing + drywall in my house in the US. My house doesn’t have any heating but does have mini-split AC units in the bedroom that we usually run for 3 hours in the afternoon if someone is going to sleep in that room. There is a concept of having a ceiling fan next to some windows at the top of the wall near the roof. The idea is to have the fan pull the hot air up and out that window, creating a nice draft. Usually you have this in the main living area. They have a name for this that escapes me at the moment.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoCeiling fans used like that is an old fashioned method that was common in the Deep South of the US before AC, I believe. I would say that fits with what I am talking about. Thank you for replying.
- 5y ago
- hubadu 5y ago"That means the government did not burn any oil, coal, or natural gas to power the country." This is a new low for HN to upvote such garbage, but at least they edited the headline which originally was: "Costa Rica Has Run on 100% Renewable Energy for 299 Days".
- jokoon 5y agoThis the classic, usual kind of misleading news about renewable energy. Keep dreaming, hoping and advocating for renewables, but it's just not the solution. Nuclear is the only viable solution.
- maxleaf 5y agoOoof. Nuclear is no longer economic and the life-time emission is way above zero. Both Gov. Brown and AOC are confident about 100% renewables. We can do it!
- warlog 5y agoAgreed. And: where do the concrete, steel and electronic components to build and service these "energy sources" come from? ...not "renewable". But don't let accurate counting get in the way of accounting(tm).
- jokoon 5y agoyou need less steel and concrete for nuclear than for renewables electronics were not common when nuclear energy was built also other comments pointed out how misleading the article is
- Zigurd 5y agoNuclear is brilliant. All that is needed is to solve construction cost overruns, waste handling, no private sector insurability, uncompetitive pricing, nuclear weapons proliferation, and decommissioning cost overruns.
- edgyquant 5y agoWhy not both?
- DennisP 5y agoWe really need two words for renewables: one for types that scale but don't provide power on demand (wind, solar), and the other for types that provide power on demand but aren't available at scale everywhere (hydro, geothermal). Costa Rica is blessed with plenty of the second type and uses it. Because we lump it all into "renewables," it sounds like it should be easy for everyone to follow their example, and that's not the case. No country has run on a high percentage of wind/solar/battery for a long period of time.
- maxleaf 5y agoWhat are you talking about? If AOC and Gov. Brown are confident we can get to 100% renewable energy, then we can. Batteries will solve all the issues you mentioned and 100% renewable we go!
- ajdude 5y agoAnd in fact the battery method has been proven to work to solve Australia's power issue (thanks Elon!).
- itsoktocry 5y agoPart of the bargain was that Tesla will be recycling the materials for these batteries when they are EoL. Until that actually happens, the battery only solves half the problem.
- samatman 5y agoSure. That seems like a kind of uncharitable way to put it though. It's possible that I'm reading in a tone that isn't there. Building the first grid-scale battery bank, and having it succeed in smoothing out the delivery curve for an intermittent-heavy grid: that's a huge victory! It's a triumph really. Insisting on the accountability and follow-through is important, sure. But that battery solves the whole problem we have right now, and will serve as a test case for solving the problem which it itself created for a decade down the road. Maybe Elon will be broke by then, or living on Mars, or we'll all complete the Singularity and have chips in our head. My hope is that they just fulfill the contract. In any case there's no reason to show that kind of skepticism about something which can't have happened yet.
- fukd 5y agoPeople should never forget that green energry is not 100% green and embrace minimalism
- bequanna 5y agoAh, right. If only we all would have embraced minimalism from the very start! There would be no need for these pesky warm houses, abundant food, or relatively cheap medicine.
- chacha2 5y agoWon't have that stuff in an ice age.
- bequanna 5y agoOh, are we expecting that soon? I thought Miami was going to be underwater by 2050. I'm getting a little older and have a tough time keeping up with the climate-change alarmism dejour.
- InitialLastName 5y agoIf only there were space for a lifestyle between hunter-gatherer and "Every year, I drive the equivalent of the circumference of the earth, ordering a brand new pocket computer from the other side twice".
- fukd 5y agoWe also got forever chemicals, worst air quality and food layed with pesticides.
- tohmasu 5y ago70-80% Hydro [~90% Hydro+Geothermal]. ~10% wind and almost no PV. It's important to keep in mind that wind and solar aren't really a part of this success story.
- fasteddie31003 5y agoCalifornia does not consider hydro to be renewable, so according to California law Costa Rica has not been running on renewable energy. This is to point out California needs to redefine hydro into a renewable resource.
- walshemj 5y agoWhy ? is there a stated reason
- fasteddie31003 5y agoUtilities are required to buy a certain percentage from renewables. I think California wants to encourage more growth from solar and wind.
- walshemj 5y agoStill going to need base load - so CA is going for NNB (nuclear new build ) for that.
- shawndrost 5y agoBecause of ecosystem and water footprint impacts associated with dams, in conjunction with the operational requirements of power generation. Dams obviously convert a river into a lake and impede/alter natural migratory patterns. Less obviously, hydroelectric power generation dictates a pattern of water release that is at odds with other demands on water usage, for human and natural usage purposes. (You can imagine that downstream environments might benefit from water flow which is more steady, or which follows natural rhythms; this is in conflict to some degree with grid demand for power.)
- Pick-A-Hill2019 5y agoI'm confused.. the Article opens with an Update that I'm struggling to parse.. They seem to be saying that a better title would have been xyz (i.e the same but dropping the 299 Days claim?) Appologies if this has already been asked & answered - a quick skim didn't show anything related to the "why?"
- advisedwang 5y agoThe difference in the update is "Renewable Energy" originally vs "Renewable Electricity" now, because this only applies to the Electrical grid and not other energy used by Costa Rica (ie transport)
- Pick-A-Hill2019 5y agoAh! Thanks!
- mcarrano 5y agoAbsolutely loved Costa Rica when I visited several years ago. It is on my list of places to go back. However, I was saddened to see litter all over some of the beaches I went to.
- realreality 5y agoCosta Rica’s per capita electricity use (about 400W right now) is less than half of New York state’s (about 1kW). Solutions to fossil fuel use are going to have to involve drastic cuts in our electricity consumption.
- joncrane 5y agoIn CR, electricity is comparatively very expensive. In the US we think nothing of leaving lights on when we go out or go to bed. In CR it's considered extremely taboo to leave lights or fans on unnecessarily.
- aembleton 5y ago> Solutions to fossil fuel use are going to have to involve drastic cuts in our electricity consumption. Why? Why can't we produce enough from wind and solar and store it in batteries? Maybe use electric cars as batteries for helping to balance the grid.
- cwkoss 5y agoLithium scarcity is one issue. Much of the cheap lithium has already been mined. We'll likely need to utilize different chemistries that are less suited for cars for grid scale solutions.
- realreality 5y agoWe currently use a huge amount of energy, only a tiny fraction of which comes from wind and solar [1]. Transitioning all energy to renewable is not just a matter of swapping out one source for another. [2] [1] https://twitter.com/drvolts/status/1405387412168052738/photo/1 https://twitter.com/drvolts/status/1405387412168052738/photo... [2]https://jancovici.com/en/energy-transition/renewables/could-we-live-as-today-with-just-renewable-energy/ https://jancovici.com/en/energy-transition/renewables/could-...
- asteroidbelt 5y agoNo the solution is to impose carbon tax, and: * Let consumer decide what is more important for them, saved money or not worrying about light switches * Give capitalists incentive to produce greener electricity Yes, technically, forcing people to reduce their quality of life is a solution, but it's better to solve the problem without it.
- detritus 5y agoNot to be That Guy (again), but it would be helpful if headlines like these could distinguish between 'electricity usage' and 'total energy consumption', because the non-electricity slice of the overall energy pie tends to be one of the far greedier slices. - ed. RTFA, detritus - it's right there in the first paragraph. As you were!
- conjecTech 5y agoIt is, and they literally address this in the first paragraph.
- detritus 5y agoI realised and edited just as you, correctly, chided me :) </reddit>
- j_walter 5y ago100% renewable...but not 100% green by the new standards. Hydro is only renewable for "low impact small sources". Considering a majority of their electricity is coming from hydro I would say it's not from "low impact small sources". Still a great feat though, but the bar keeps moving higher.
- azernik 5y agoFor global warming purposes, I'm personally okay with local ecological disruptions from hydro.
- lobocinza 5y agoThe reservoirs emit a lot of CO2 and methane. Not sure about that.
- asteroidbelt 5y agoHow much per watt is that "a lot" compared to others? Source?
- lobocinza 5y agoA valid question for which I don't have an answer.
- williesleg 5y agoHere come the experts! Love to read all these fat asses in momma's basement who just know everything about everything but don't do anything except post shit on the web. What a waste of life. Useless eaters.
- rjmunro 5y agoWhat about Paraguay? It's been running on 100% renewable electricity since the late 1980s, and it has a larger population. In fact you could say it is running on 300% renewable electricity, because it has large Hydro electric dam, exports around 70% of what it generates to Brazil and Argentina and only uses 30% itself.
- pelasaco 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itaipu_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itaipu_Dam
- aazaa 5y agoThe update is telling: > Update 3/17/2021: Our original article stated "Costa Rica Has Run on 100% Renewable Energy for 299 Days." It was pointed out to us that while Costa Rica's electric grid does run primarily on renewable energy, a better title would have been "Costa Rica Has Run on 100% Renewable Electricity". Below the article says that the government had not burned any oil to power the country, but this would technically imply that the government does not own gasoline powered vehicles, which couldn't be true. Accounting for the origins of energy is tricky business. Want to squeeze out internal combustion engines? Go electric. Where do the batteries come from, and how much non-renewable energy does it cost to produce them? For that matter, how many goods are important with non-neglibile carbon footprints? Because carbon emissions can be exported. > In other words, a country can be considered carbon neutral while still using fossil fuels by planting trees that offset the carbon, or funding conservation programs which aim to reduce the amount of carbon in the air. How long do those trees you're planting keep CO2 out of the atmosphere? When they die, a good chunk of that carbon may be released.
- lrem 5y agoCut them down and build something out of them, or bury them. I heard that charring before burning is beneficial, but never looked into why that might be.
- ncmncm 5y agoCharring burns off the hydrogen, leaving solid carbon. Pulverizing the charcoal and plowing it into farm fields improves the soil.
- ip26 5y agoWhere do the batteries come from, and how much non-renewable energy does it cost to produce them? There's an interconnection. As the world electrifies, it will become easier for manufacturing to electrify, too.
- RhodoGSA 5y agothis. Alot of people forget that progress for progress sake does indeed beget more progress. Anecdotal, rather whimsical example; As soon as i transitioned my factorio to electricity, i found it much easier to just build a solar panel factory and batterys to power everything because i stop getting attacked by the mobs. Also, one future problem that i find funny. Electric is better. If everyone had access to cheap, renewable energy it only makes sense to transition to that renewable energy. Also with the rise of carbon removal, I see global warming in the future becoming an entirely different problem to solve. It shows in our models that the PPM of carbon in the atmosphere has different effects throughout the world. So once we 'solve' the climate crisis, what entity says where the happy medium is? If it makes one region arid and another eden, who gets to be the deciding factor. I see a future where carbon sequestration and maybe even addition is a matter of national security.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- robertlagrant 5y ago1) best possible natural conditions for renewables 2) import most things that require energy to make 3) transportation isn't electric 4) small population 5) works 80% of the year Sure. Sounds great. Doesn't seem generalisable?
- rm_-rf_slash 5y agoCosta Rica’s answer to #2 is particularly high import taxes[0], discouraging an import consumption economy for most but the rich or tourists/expats. [0] https://www.costarica.com/relocation/duty-free-imports https://www.costarica.com/relocation/duty-free-imports
- itissid 5y agoWhy is a country not able to come out of poverty post colonialism? Some have succeeded like the East Asian "Tiger" economies some haven't like India and Bangladesh, yet. Like everything its a confluence of factors. Costa Rica is an outlier but perhaps it's only because of success of policy. To make an industry flourish and provide gainful employment(like the IT and Services sector in Costa Rica) you need Labor or Capital. In india for example the manufacturing industry is badly hobbled with lack of capital availability and poor labor laws an exception being the IT Services Sector where laws were written specifically to exempt them of such onerous regulation and capital is available more freely. Perhaps with the sparse population and good Services Sector and Tourism is a happy path to prosperity for Costa Rica, but for other Central American countries like Guatemala or El Salvador it's harder because the right conditions have never been allowed to take root.
- cbmuser 5y agoCosta Rica is a small country with hardly any industry and abundant amounts of hydro power. The country’s whole electricity demand is about 1.82 GW according to electricitymap.org with around 1.5 GW from hydropower and the rest mostly from geothermal power. 1.82 GW is a little more than a single EPR reactor. Just for comparison.
- asien 5y agoJust for comparison, France has 25 GW of hydro electricity , it’s the second largest hydro producer in Europe behind Sweden. Hydro only cover 15% of France total electricity demand. It’s indeed all about scale.
- asdff 5y agoI wonder how these numbers compare per capita. I'm assuming the average french person uses more electricity than the average costa rican. Both in terms of electric transit in france and the cooler winters.
- stewx 5y agoThe lion's share of Costa Rica's power is hydroelectric. This can't easily be replicated by a lot of other countries, since it's highly dependent on local geography.
- fernly 5y agoThe Wikipedia list of nations by renewable energy[0] mentions some others as high scorers. Sorting by %Renewable, the top are * Albania 100 * DR of the Congo 100 * Iceland 100 * Paraguay 100 * Namibia 99.3 * Costa Rica 97.7 All of these are small countries with relatively small total power quantities. Not to say it isn't a praiseworthy achievement to get to, or near, 100% renewable at any quantity. But if you sort the table on Total GWhr of RE, they are far down the list. The runaway winner in quantity of renewable generation is China, with the US, Brazil and Canada fighting for fourth place. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable...
- trainsplanes 5y agoThe Democratic Republic of the Congo is a massive country with 90 million people and an area about 4x as big as Texas. That's a very impressive achievement.