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>Your water and electricity utilities most likely also have caps on how much water or electricity you can use before they cut you off. They do? Where is this t

by fr0sty 15y ago

>Your water and electricity utilities most likely also have caps on how much water or electricity you can use before they cut you off. They do? Where is this the case? My water and electricity usage have no monthly cap and are only shut off if I fail to pay the bills.

evan_ 15y ago
My friend had some kind of washer hose burst in his house when he was away for the weekend. The damage was minimal (it was in his unfinished basement) but the water company, detecting a large amount of water being used, came by and shut his water off. "Oh but that's different" - not really. Same thing would have happened if my friend was intentionally trying to fill his basement with water.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  What about a pool?
  - EdwardMSmith 15y ago
    (not relevant to the article, but...) when you fill a pool, generally you call the water company and they'll hook a meter to a fire hydrant. This will fill a lot faster then a 1" home service, and you also won't be charged for sewer as well as the water. This can save significant money, since, at least where I live, sewer fees are about 8x the actual water cost.
- Luyt 15y ago
  I suspect that would not have been a problem. The water company guy rings at your friends door: Water Company Guy: "Just checking, we think there might be a burst pipe around here somewhere. Have you noticed some flooding?" Your friend: "No. I'm just filling up my pool however, but everything is fine." Company guy: "Ah, ok. Excellent. Have a nice day!"
  - evan_ 15y ago
    Well it was a couple years ago, but I do remember specifically that they didn't even call him. He actually realized there was no water before he discovered that his basement was damp and eventually figured it out. It could be that they knocked on his door, and; receiving no answer, assumed it was a leak. Anyway this would be an easy question to answer if someone called a water utility and asked.
    - billswift 15y ago
      I was cleaning and fixing up a house after its owner had died. One of the first things I did was arrange to get the water turned back on, but it took two tries, because the first time the man who connected it turned it back off because water was running immediately--I had not closed the valve to the water heater which started filling.
      - sitkack 15y ago
        They are good like that.
- ceejayoz 15y ago
  > "Oh but that's different" - not really. Same thing would have happened if my friend was intentionally trying to fill his basement with water. Sure, but if he called and stated that, they'd likely turn it back on and bill him for the usage.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
The only example, which is kind of spurious, that comes to mind is drought in Texas - if you're watering your lawn during a drought, or decide to fill up your empty pool, I believe that there are actual legal consequences.
- dkl 15y ago
  There is no analogy to internet use. It's not a scarce resource.
  - matwood 15y ago
    Bandwidth certainly is a scarce resource as is the equipment needed to support it. Fiber doesn't just magically appear in the ground. Switches don't grow on your street corner. These things have to be paid for and maintained. It only makes sense that the highest users pay for more for the infrastructure. It's the current pricing schemes that I have a problem with.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      Typically it is not. It's not unlimited, but a scarce resource is one of which there is simply not enough to go around. With cable modem pooling it can approach scarce resource status, but typically your modem does not "run out of bandwidth".
    - seanp2k 15y ago
      Bandwidth isn't like other resources; when you stop using it, it's (near) instantly available again for someone else to use, and doesn't cost anything to produce. Yes, it routes via other Tier-1 ISPs, but comcast undoubtedly has route-exchange arrangements with them so that it ends up costing them a net of nothing.
    - icebraining 15y ago
      That's the throughput, though (which was always capped, in Mbps) not the amount of data. The latter is unlimited. They're limiting the amount of data not because it's scarce, but because that forces people to limit their throughput - since if you use at the max levels, it'd reach the data caps in no time - because they're overselling too much and don't want to pay for the infrastructure upgrade.
bradleyland 15y ago
Your electric utility service is capped, but they use a different method because electric utilities are metered. You have a fixed capacity feed to your house. For example, our home has 150 amp service. I cannot exceed that draw or the main feed breaker trips and everything goes dark. I can request installation of a larger feed, but I have to pay the build-out, and there are hard limits based on my local zoning. One thing is certain, in no way do I have "unlimited" electricity available at my home. Contrast this to your ISP. Say they deliver a 15/3 mbps (down/up) service to your home. The actual data transfer usage isn't metered (you pay a fixed price), but there is a cap for residential service. The reason for the cap is that Comcast has to make arrangements for transfer of that data to its destination, which will cross over in to other carrier's networks. Many of these agreements are made on trade between carriers, but if there is an imbalance, Comcast has to pay. The only alternative is metered transfer. If you had a commercial grade internet connection, you'd already pay based on two factors (sometimes more): * Available bandwidth * Data transfer * (Sometimes) Port capability For example, if you get metro ethernet service that is capable of 100 mbps, you might pay a 100 mbps port charge. You can order only a fraction of that bandwidth however; say, 20 mbps. Along with that, you'll pay a data transfer allowance; usually purchased in buckets. You can scale this to your need. Businesses make this decision based on a profile of their usage. Do they need to transfer lots of data at a relatively slow (but consistent) rate? Or do they need to transfer large chunks of data periodically, but very quickly? Maybe they need to transfer lots of data really fast? Residential customers don't want to think about this. They want to pay a fee and receive service. Comcast built a product around the profile of typical consumer usage. If you go outside that, you get business service, which means you pay for what you use. This whole notion that unlimited internet for $60/month is some kind of "right" is just preposterous.
- fr0sty 15y ago
  > If you go outside that, you get business service, Actually in this case you get banned for a year without recourse. It baffles me why they didn't just try to upsell the guy.
  - CamperBob 15y ago
CWuestefeld 15y ago
Years ago, in college, my fraternity house used an "excessive" amount of electricity in one month. The power company told us that if we continued at that rate of usage, then they'd have to switch us to a business plan (for which, apparently, the per-kWh charge is higher).

by fr0sty 15y ago

evan_ 15y ago

My friend had some kind of washer hose burst in his house when he was away for the weekend. The damage was minimal (it was in his unfinished basement) but the water company, detecting a large amount of water being used, came by and shut his water off. "Oh but that's different" - not really. Same thing would have happened if my friend was intentionally trying to fill his basement with water.

kenjackson 15y ago
What about a pool?
- EdwardMSmith 15y ago
  (not relevant to the article, but...) when you fill a pool, generally you call the water company and they'll hook a meter to a fire hydrant. This will fill a lot faster then a 1" home service, and you also won't be charged for sewer as well as the water. This can save significant money, since, at least where I live, sewer fees are about 8x the actual water cost.
Luyt 15y ago
I suspect that would not have been a problem. The water company guy rings at your friends door: Water Company Guy: "Just checking, we think there might be a burst pipe around here somewhere. Have you noticed some flooding?" Your friend: "No. I'm just filling up my pool however, but everything is fine." Company guy: "Ah, ok. Excellent. Have a nice day!"
- evan_ 15y ago
  Well it was a couple years ago, but I do remember specifically that they didn't even call him. He actually realized there was no water before he discovered that his basement was damp and eventually figured it out. It could be that they knocked on his door, and; receiving no answer, assumed it was a leak. Anyway this would be an easy question to answer if someone called a water utility and asked.
  - billswift 15y ago
    I was cleaning and fixing up a house after its owner had died. One of the first things I did was arrange to get the water turned back on, but it took two tries, because the first time the man who connected it turned it back off because water was running immediately--I had not closed the valve to the water heater which started filling.
    - sitkack 15y ago
      They are good like that.
ceejayoz 15y ago
> "Oh but that's different" - not really. Same thing would have happened if my friend was intentionally trying to fill his basement with water. Sure, but if he called and stated that, they'd likely turn it back on and bill him for the usage.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

The only example, which is kind of spurious, that comes to mind is drought in Texas - if you're watering your lawn during a drought, or decide to fill up your empty pool, I believe that there are actual legal consequences.

dkl 15y ago
There is no analogy to internet use. It's not a scarce resource.
- matwood 15y ago
  Bandwidth certainly is a scarce resource as is the equipment needed to support it. Fiber doesn't just magically appear in the ground. Switches don't grow on your street corner. These things have to be paid for and maintained. It only makes sense that the highest users pay for more for the infrastructure. It's the current pricing schemes that I have a problem with.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    Typically it is not. It's not unlimited, but a scarce resource is one of which there is simply not enough to go around. With cable modem pooling it can approach scarce resource status, but typically your modem does not "run out of bandwidth".
  - seanp2k 15y ago
    Bandwidth isn't like other resources; when you stop using it, it's (near) instantly available again for someone else to use, and doesn't cost anything to produce. Yes, it routes via other Tier-1 ISPs, but comcast undoubtedly has route-exchange arrangements with them so that it ends up costing them a net of nothing.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    That's the throughput, though (which was always capped, in Mbps) not the amount of data. The latter is unlimited. They're limiting the amount of data not because it's scarce, but because that forces people to limit their throughput - since if you use at the max levels, it'd reach the data caps in no time - because they're overselling too much and don't want to pay for the infrastructure upgrade.

bradleyland 15y ago

Your electric utility service is capped, but they use a different method because electric utilities are metered. You have a fixed capacity feed to your house. For example, our home has 150 amp service. I cannot exceed that draw or the main feed breaker trips and everything goes dark. I can request installation of a larger feed, but I have to pay the build-out, and there are hard limits based on my local zoning. One thing is certain, in no way do I have "unlimited" electricity available at my home. Contrast this to your ISP. Say they deliver a 15/3 mbps (down/up) service to your home. The actual data transfer usage isn't metered (you pay a fixed price), but there is a cap for residential service. The reason for the cap is that Comcast has to make arrangements for transfer of that data to its destination, which will cross over in to other carrier's networks. Many of these agreements are made on trade between carriers, but if there is an imbalance, Comcast has to pay. The only alternative is metered transfer. If you had a commercial grade internet connection, you'd already pay based on two factors (sometimes more): * Available bandwidth * Data transfer * (Sometimes) Port capability For example, if you get metro ethernet service that is capable of 100 mbps, you might pay a 100 mbps port charge. You can order only a fraction of that bandwidth however; say, 20 mbps. Along with that, you'll pay a data transfer allowance; usually purchased in buckets. You can scale this to your need. Businesses make this decision based on a profile of their usage. Do they need to transfer lots of data at a relatively slow (but consistent) rate? Or do they need to transfer large chunks of data periodically, but very quickly? Maybe they need to transfer lots of data really fast? Residential customers don't want to think about this. They want to pay a fee and receive service. Comcast built a product around the profile of typical consumer usage. If you go outside that, you get business service, which means you pay for what you use. This whole notion that unlimited internet for $60/month is some kind of "right" is just preposterous.

fr0sty 15y ago
> If you go outside that, you get business service, Actually in this case you get banned for a year without recourse. It baffles me why they didn't just try to upsell the guy.
- CamperBob 15y ago

CWuestefeld 15y ago

Years ago, in college, my fraternity house used an "excessive" amount of electricity in one month. The power company told us that if we continued at that rate of usage, then they'd have to switch us to a business plan (for which, apparently, the per-kWh charge is higher).