16 ms·

Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

205 points by mleonhard 5y ago

rossdavidh 5y ago
Interesting, but it seems not entirely implausible that the effect could work in the opposite direction, if gut microbiota influence behavior at all (behavior such as adopting small furry animals).
gcheong 5y ago
"Sixty percent of cat owners sleep with their cats, which may enhance their sense of security and improve their quality of sleep" Maybe, but now only between the hours of 10pm - 5:30am, for me anyway.
- knicholes 5y ago
  In my case, it demolishes any chance of restful sleep. She literally walks all over me. She'll meow at the door if I shut the door. So it's either meows or walking. It's a ... nightmare.
  - castlecrasher2 5y ago
    Cruel as it may sound, you could try establishing dominance. We have a male cat who would meow EVERY MORNING sometime between 2 and 4 am. We tried many kinds of discipline, but it didn't stop until one morning I chased him into hiding downstairs and it hasn't happened since. Every morning after for about a week I would go out of my way to thank him and give him attention. I know many out there would say that running after him was cruel but it worked and he's still as friendly as can be, and we get to sleep through each night.
    - shinymark 5y ago
      Not the original poster but I’m going to seriously consider this. I’m at my wits end with a male cat who habitually meows at 2 am and 5 am point blank in front of my face.
      - bombcar 5y ago
        Boop him on the snoot. It’s what mama cats do to kittens.
    - andyferris 5y ago
      They say healthy expression of anger is an important tool even in human communication, to set boundaries/etc. Angry cats chase each other. It doesn’t necessarily imply dominance. I wouldn’t think this is cruel - it’s just a decent way to express your feelings on the matter to your feline, and he understood/learned.
    - knicholes 5y ago
      For about two weeks I'd chase her with a spray bottle of water whenever she meowed. sigh
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      This is something that comes up more with human/dog relationships but I think it’s worth mentioning here too: there’s nothing wrong with this as a training approach if, and because, the pet trusts you and baseline feels safe with you. If they feel unsafe or haven’t made that assessment it can be traumatic and even personality-altering. I don’t want to discourage anyone from any kind of safe, instinct triggering corrective action. But I do recommend something similar to what people say about human child discipline: act consistently and with intent. Don’t accept some instances of a bad behavior sometimes and correct others; if you’ve decided this is your approach stick with it unless you see harm in following through. Don’t overreact out of frustration; think through what you’re going to do, and be sure it’s safe and something you’re gonna be comfortable reflecting on when it’s over.
    - mgarfias 5y ago
      I had a kitten that was relentless with her biting. One day she bit my hand, and without thinking I leaned down and not her ear. She never bit me after that.
  - klowrey 5y ago
    It may be frowned upon, but we communicated to our cats that meowing at the door was not acceptable by discouraging them with a vacuum cleaner. Flip the switch on the vacuum and run the cord under the door to your bed side. Upon meow, quietly plug the vacuum in to activate -- if the cat senses that you activated the device, the process doesn't work. If "the environment" doesn't want them to meow at the door, they learn quickly. Of course give them lots of love in the morning and before bed.
    - knicholes 5y ago
      I tried programming my arduino to trigger a servo to pull the handle on a spray air can when a sound over a threshold was detected by the microphone, but the servo wasn't strong enough. Enabling an outlet to an already-plugged in vacuum sounds good, though. Excellent... I had plans to train a cat meow classifier so I wouldn't activate the can due to other noises, say a fire truck, fireworks, or a neighbor slamming a door shut.
      - daniellarusso 5y ago
        They actually sell these devices, but they are IR motion activated, not via sound. https://store.petsafe.net/ssscat-spray-pet-deterrent https://store.petsafe.net/ssscat-spray-pet-deterrent
        Nursie 5y ago
        We have one of those, they're good but the refills are strangely expensive. Turns out they fit some standard brands of canned air, I picked up some branded "ecomoist air duster" and it works really well, although slightly quieter, it still seems to work on our kitty.
    - _carbyau_ 5y ago
      Sounds like a good reason for a robot vacuum cleaner. "I'm just fiddling with my phone over here entirely not related to your meowing and the vacuum coming to get you!"
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    Getting an automatic feeder has helped a lot. The cats used to wake us up at 3AM for food. Now it's much better. One of them still comes in at around 5:30AM to play, but that's not so bad.
    - trhway 5y ago
      not surprising giving that the cats are night hunters. With age though our cat was meowing if we were still up starting around 12am and until we'd go to bed, basically he was enforcing our the typical routine (and yes, he was sleeping with us, and the cats are big on routine)
  - tracyhenry 5y ago
    Instead of intimidation, simply ignoring it (i.e. absolutely not opening the door whatsoever) can work. It can take a while so be patient. My kitty stopped meowing at night after I do this for two weeks, and has never since meowed at night.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      This is good advice but it’s going to vary by human more than pet. I have a lot better track record developing patience and a good discipline relationship with my pets by actively engaging, because I’m cognitively (ADHD, ASD) incapable of ignoring a lot of things and trying to force it brings out my worst, least intentional self.
  - tverbeure 5y ago
    In the past year, the biggest quality of life improvements in our household were: - changing the door handles to door knobs, because our lovable asshole had long ago figured out how to open a door, and used that special trick every morning at 4:30am when he wanted to go out. - installing an RFID triggered electronic cat flap that we installed in the outside wall of my hobby room. It uses the RFID tag that was already in implanted in his neck. Ours is one from Sure Petcare, but there are multiple brands of course. The cat flap is amazing: it took roughly 1 day to teach him how to open and close it, and now he can leave and enter the house as he wishes: he usually leaves around 4:30am and comes back an hour or two later. We're extraordinary lucky that he taught himself to do this potty business outside, so we don't have a litter box. Once he learned how to use the flap, he stopped bothering us at night. An additional benefit is that we can now go out for a weekend without locking him up, using an automated feeder to make sure he stays happy. We can also check leaving/entering activity on an app. It's a life changer.
    - Nursie 5y ago
      The "Sure" flaps are great. We keep our cats in at night, and have the flap programmed to only allow inbound after 8pm, until about 6am (at this time of year), and it keeps other cats out.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Close door. Ignore meows. If meows continue or start up in the middle of the night and you can't ignore them, open the door suddenly, hiss at the cat and chase it away. You won't have to do this often. Our cats have (mostly) learned this. They are still affectionate, loving cats that desire our company, but they know that meowing at the bedroom door in the night is not allowed. (and we had to do this for the very same reason, our boy cat loves to be on the bed with us or in the room when we're sleeping. He loves it so much he has to get up and move around every few minutes, trill and purr at us, demand attention, walk around on his people etc etc. He can't be a night-time bed cat because he's just too into it!)
- gilbetron 5y ago
  We learned years ago that our cats get put in the lower part of our house with the door closed at night. We felt bad about it, but being able to sleep all night made up for it. Quick story: for several nights, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with horrendous stomach pains. I was thinking I needed to see the doctor it was so painful. Then on the fourth night when the pain hit I woke up fast enough to notice our cat walking off of my stomach. Turns out he (a 15 lb cat) had been jumping off a shelf through the air about 6 feet and landing directly on my gut. This was instrumental in the decision to keep them away from us ;)
  - cunthorpe 5y ago
    That’s hilarious. Goes to show how impossible some “debugging” is. No sane doctor would say “so your stomach hurts at night, do you own a fat cat?”
    - mLuby 5y ago
      Sounds perfect for a Dr. House mystery.
      - yissp 5y ago
        IIRC there was an episode where someone's cat was the cause of their mysterious illness (toxoplasmosis I think).
        cm2012 5y ago
        By the way, the common myth is misleading. Toxoplasmosis is almost always caused by undercooked meat, which is why it's so much more common in France. You can get it from cats but it's almost always stray cats, not house cats.
        moistly 5y ago
        I don’t think undercooked meat nor stray cats explain the 30–50% prevalence rate. You have a source for your claim? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  My most recent cat, who sadly died a couple years ago, was unusually snuggly. We slept in physical contact, often spooning some or all of the night, for most of the 12 years I had her. She was particularly well adapted to me, my habits and my schedule… I was very fortunate! I had a really rough bout of insomnia, along with a bad mental health stretch not long after she died. I didn’t make the connection until recently that sleep without my cat might have contributed. But now I have a particularly snuggly pup, which has improved my quality of sleep beyond even that previous high point. We definitely have to adapt more to each other’s schedule. But it’s surprisingly mutual adaptation, and surprisingly malleable. Sorry for the long personal response. I have no idea how much wiggle room there is with your cat(s), but I hope you find the benefits of the relationship worth whatever tradeoffs come with the sleep schedule.
  - hirundo 5y ago
    My cat acted like she wanted to spoon, but her dastardly plan was to seize the exact center of the bed, and she was relentless at it. Like a chess player. Every night I'd wake up curled around the edges. So I guess I must be the first person dominated by the iron whim of a cat.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      Oh my cat did this too! I just happen to like sleeping that way.
    - _carbyau_ 5y ago
      As far as I can tell it is a common experience with dogs, cats and toddlers... good thing I love the buggers.
- jv22222 5y ago
  > "Sixty percent of cat owners sleep with their cats, which may enhance their sense of security and improve their quality of sleep" I regularly open my eyes in the middle of the night and my cat's face is about 5 inches away from mine, just sitting there perfectly still, staring at me.
  - lehi 5y ago
    Count yourself lucky to wake up to that end.
  - thrill 5y ago
    When I was a teenager I was having an odd dream of my nose really tickling as I came out of a deep sleep. I finally opened my eyes to see my Siamese sitting on my chest holding a struggling mouse by the tail over my snoring mouth. Its front paws had been scrabbling just on the edge of my upper lip.
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      Lol (and gross!). My mom used to freak out when my cat used to bring such "gifts" for us (mostly mouse, occassionally squirrels that my mom would ask me to rescue, pissing off the cat) or just try to show-off to us what an apex predator he was by bringing his prey inside the house. The peak highlight was when I heard my mom scream one day and rushed to find her on top of the dining table as he had caught a 3 foot thin snake, already half dead, that he was enjoying chasing around inside the house.
    - tryauuum 5y ago
      "an average cat owner swallows 4-6 mice per year while sleeping"
  - 55555 5y ago
    He is planning your murder.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Contemplating how much salt, pepper, onions and celery are going to be required to make the soup.
- pluc 5y ago
  If sleeping with a cat enhances your sense of security... try sleeping with a dog.
- prirun 5y ago
  I opened the door once one morning for my cat who was meowing. Big mistake! He started doing in on a regular basis of course. Ignoring him didn't work, so I started getting up and closing him in the basement until I got up a few hours later. After a few days of this, I'd open my door and he'd walk to the basement so I could shut him in. It took about 2 months, but he eventually quit the meowing. New rule: never, ever, open a door when a cat meows. If I'm ready to get up and my cats hear me rustling around and start meowing, I wait until they have stopped meowing for 15 minutes before opening the door.
  - canada_dry 5y ago
    My kid's cat - I've taken care of since they've left for college - started scratching at the bedroom door earlier and earlier in the morning - because that's when it was fed. Now, it's fed at bedtime so it doesn't care what time I get up.
    - avh02 5y ago
      Yeah our cat's big meal is in the morning , I randomly change around when in my morning routine I feed them so they don't assume that just cos I'm up and about they'll be getting fed. It helped with them making noises at the door as soon as my alarm goes off in the morning (we kick them out if they're annoying at night). Otherwise they'd assume every time I open the door to go to the toilet or whatever is meal time.
- xarope 5y ago
  You must have had the same cats as I did, mine would figure some way to get into my room (either by hitting the door to dislodge the latch, or climbing up the roof to my 2nd storey window) and "ask" (demand?) me to feed them at 5.30am...
- gadders 5y ago
  I've always thought that sleeping with my cat improved my sleep. It's like as they're always on alert, you don't need to be.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  I'm a light sleeper and cat ownership has definitely worsen my sleep since they occasionally wake me up by making noise. I'd definitely not recommend a cat to someone hoping it will improve their sleep.
0x456 5y ago
Shockingly, it also has an effect on the brain microbiota of owners: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii
- machello13 5y ago
  From that wikipedia article: > A common argument in the debate about whether cat ownership is ethical involves the question of toxoplasma gondii transmission to humans.[58] Even though "living in a household with a cat that used a litter box was strongly associated with infection,"[32] and that living with several kittens or any cat under one year of age has some significance,[59] several other studies claim to have shown that living in a household with a cat is not a significant risk factor for T. gondii infection. [49][60]
29athrowaway 5y ago
Some cats carry Toxoplasmosis gondii.
- testfoobar 5y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted. "Toxoplasma gondii-A Gastrointestinal Pathogen Associated with Human Brain Diseases" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508738/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508738/
  - Nursie 5y ago
    It's not like cats are the only source, undercooked meat is another major one (and is why pregnant women are advised not to eat rare steak). As a cat-owning rare-steak lover, I'm probably doomed.
- whateveracct 5y ago
  If you keep your cat indoors its entire life, that's not an issue to my understanding. There is a comical conspiracy theory that people only love cats because they have a brain parasite. I mostly hear it from people who think cats can't be sweet.
  - aitchnyu 5y ago
    Why didnt scientists try to check toxo infection rates among cat-loving subreddits yet?
    - hamilyon2 5y ago
      Now we are talking real science, finally!
threevox 5y ago
Yet more evidence that people should stick with dogs as pets, as co-evolution intended /s
- baoqdau 5y ago
  this is canine propaganda
  - pluc 5y ago
    Big Pet infighting
  - CyanBird 5y ago
    It is But that doesn't make it untrue
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  or both! /s
marricks 5y ago
Who knows what the net affect is but taking the final sentences of some of the results paragraphs makes it seem like taking care of a cat is a good idea: > [...] Therefore, cat ownership may be involved in mediating the abundance of disease-related gut microbes. > [...] Therefore, from the perspective of gut microbiota, our study not only supports that there might be no correlation between cat ownership and obesity but also clarifies that cat ownership can affect the structure and function of gut microbiota in NW [normal weight] individuals. Including all of this next paragraph as it all seems good... > Functional predictions indicated that cat ownership would lead to increased synthesis of B vitamins, amino acids and carbohydrate metabolism. Moreover, SCFA-related pathways (4-hydroxyphenylacetate degradation, TCA cycle VII (acetate producers), and glycerol degradation to butanol) were significantly increased. As the biosynthetic precursor of cofactors, vitamins play a vital role in organisms. The gut microbiota can provide various vitamins for the host [41]. Increasing glucose metabolism in the gut microbiota may be beneficial to host blood glucose control [42]. SCFAs can participate in intestinal epithelial energy supply, affect the intestinal environment (such as pH and electrolyte balance), and regulate host material and energy metabolism. SCFAs are related to the occurrence of various energy metabolism diseases. SCFAs have anti-inflammatory effects. Therefore, the influence of cat ownership on gut microbiota function may affect the health of the owner.
- moistly 5y ago
  Also posted on HN today: “Toxoplasmosis – A Global Threat. Correlation of Latent Toxoplasmosis with Specific Disease Burden in a Set of 88 Countries” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27599085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27599085 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/
- teekert 5y ago
  As long as you keep it inside (where it isn't defecating in my garden, hunting my chickens or trying to get inside where I may lock it in by accident causing mayhem, etc, I'd like my pregnant wife to still be able to do gardening and also I like eating things from my garden). I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.
shusaku 5y ago
> Through self-reporting, we found 214 individuals who claimed that they owned cats but no other pet (Cat group), while 214 individuals who did not own a pet were matched with the Cat group by gender, body mass index (BMI), and age (no cat (NC) group) Somewhat tangential question, but what algorithm would you use in order to pick the control group here? And what if instead I wanted to build the largest control group that still matched the features of my test group?
brandmeyer 5y ago
If I'm reading the scatter plots correctly, it looks like the differences in the means between the two populations is much smaller than the one-sigma variation within each population. So while the correlations may technically be statistically significant, they aren't necessarily impactful.
- setgree 5y ago
  This is exactly the intuition behind Cohen’s d — the standard unit of comparison for meta-analysis. You take the mean difference between the treatment group and the control group, and divide that number by the standard deviation of the dependent variable, and then assess that result in many studies to see which treatment, or class of treatments, moved the needle the most.
- ChickeNES 5y ago
  > they aren't necessarily impactful. Much like PLoS ONE ;)
xaduha 5y ago
There's enough smoke there, that my vote is a 'no' on whether to get a cat or cats, especially if small children might be involved at some point.
- trhway 5y ago
  Sure, if you aren't ready for the cat taking guardianship role - my nephew grew up with the cat taking position beside him in his crib from the very first days he was brought home from the hospital.
  - stordoff 5y ago
    My dogs did this when my sister was born, at least until she was moving around on her own. Whenever you put her down to change her, they'd lay a few feet away (one on each side) and growl if anyone they weren't sure of tried to get too close. I don't recall them ever growling at anything else, and were fine with visitors at any other time, so it really stood out.
ZEFuVQU3WpZz 5y ago
My family and I are all sound sleepers who sleep on our backs. Our cat, from the first day we acquired her at the pound until her last, would go from chest to chest during the night. There are few things nicer than waking up in the morning to a cat purring on your chest.
- monsieurbanana 5y ago
  > My family and I are all sound sleepers who sleep on our backs Serious brag right there
- joshschreuder 5y ago
  Usually depends on which end of the cat you wake up to :)
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    Some cats are pretty good at recognizing you'd rather look at their face. Not enough though...
- gumby 5y ago
  My father started locking the cat out of my parents bedroom when he got into his 60s because "I'd wake up with the cat on my chest thinking I was having a heart attack."
- spiffotron 5y ago
  Our cat has taken to sitting on us and patting our face until we wake up rather than waiting for us to wake up naturally.
aaron695 5y ago
Cattle digestion improves when grazed with camels - https://www.rcsaustralia.com.au/cattle-digestion-improves-when-grazed-with-camels/ https://www.rcsaustralia.com.au/cattle-digestion-improves-wh... This co-habitation stuff is pretty interesting, but it'd be good to skip some steps and just analyse gut microbiota. You can literally buy a Leucaena inoculum for cattle so they can eat Leucaena. The tech seems better in cows than people.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
I got turned on to gut bacteria a couple+ years back after reading a feature article in the NY Times Sunday Magazine. While it didn't say so directly, a theory I took away from that article was that gut bacteria affects longevity. That is, couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria; pet owners much the same. Might there also be an emotional component to a longer and healthier life? Absolutely. Humans are complex systems. Nonetheless, the science and data seem to also be saying The Gut plays a significant role as well. It will be interesting to see how pandemic isolation (as well as ongoing WFH) affects long term (gut) health.
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  > couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria Could you explain that a bit further please?
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Well, people living in close proximity exchange gut bacteria. A more robust gut is a boost to general health (e.g., immune system). You also get good bacteria from pets (e.g., dogs). On the other hand, when you live alone your gut doesn't get these benefits. So while it looks like there's an emotional-based downfall to living alone, it might also be the lack of gut diversity that cuts into your health and longevity.
- ID1452319 5y ago
  Do you take specific steps to improve your gut bacteria and if so what?
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    Pro biotics and a good diet.
r0b05 5y ago
The gut microbiota seems to have a major influence in the body in which they reside. Cat + human is only one of the examples of this symbiosis. The same can be said for any animal + human. Human + human is also true. A couple will tend to resemble each other in looks when living together for a while. If you think about it, the skin is just the outer layer of the gut. One can think of the body as a tubular structure with a couple of openings. The inside, includes the gut where most of the microbiota reside, but also on the skin, in the hair, in the mouth, etc. So when we kiss or touch, we are exchanging microbiota. Animals in this regard form a sort of proxy. They facilitate the transfer of the microbiota from human to human, including animal to human and human to animal. Overall it seems that diversity is preferable. That's one of the reasons that it's not good to be alone for too long as the microbiota diversity gets compromised. So getting a pet does actually work, be it a cat or dog.
aitchnyu 5y ago
Anybody explain what are the possible benefits/problems of the various bacterial population differences?
_user112 5y ago
I'm expecting more and more of these finding. Just how much human behaviour is driven by parasites, mycology and hormones of neighbouring animals/plants/fungi?
fouc 5y ago
I guess Toxmoplasmosis goes to the brain and doesn't spend time in the gut microbiota?

205 points by mleonhard 5y ago

Interesting, but it seems not entirely implausible that the effect could work in the opposite direction, if gut microbiota influence behavior at all (behavior such as adopting small furry animals).

gcheong 5y ago

"Sixty percent of cat owners sleep with their cats, which may enhance their sense of security and improve their quality of sleep" Maybe, but now only between the hours of 10pm - 5:30am, for me anyway.

knicholes 5y ago
In my case, it demolishes any chance of restful sleep. She literally walks all over me. She'll meow at the door if I shut the door. So it's either meows or walking. It's a ... nightmare.
- castlecrasher2 5y ago
  Cruel as it may sound, you could try establishing dominance. We have a male cat who would meow EVERY MORNING sometime between 2 and 4 am. We tried many kinds of discipline, but it didn't stop until one morning I chased him into hiding downstairs and it hasn't happened since. Every morning after for about a week I would go out of my way to thank him and give him attention. I know many out there would say that running after him was cruel but it worked and he's still as friendly as can be, and we get to sleep through each night.
  - shinymark 5y ago
    Not the original poster but I’m going to seriously consider this. I’m at my wits end with a male cat who habitually meows at 2 am and 5 am point blank in front of my face.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      Boop him on the snoot. It’s what mama cats do to kittens.
  - andyferris 5y ago
    They say healthy expression of anger is an important tool even in human communication, to set boundaries/etc. Angry cats chase each other. It doesn’t necessarily imply dominance. I wouldn’t think this is cruel - it’s just a decent way to express your feelings on the matter to your feline, and he understood/learned.
  - knicholes 5y ago
    For about two weeks I'd chase her with a spray bottle of water whenever she meowed. sigh
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    This is something that comes up more with human/dog relationships but I think it’s worth mentioning here too: there’s nothing wrong with this as a training approach if, and because, the pet trusts you and baseline feels safe with you. If they feel unsafe or haven’t made that assessment it can be traumatic and even personality-altering. I don’t want to discourage anyone from any kind of safe, instinct triggering corrective action. But I do recommend something similar to what people say about human child discipline: act consistently and with intent. Don’t accept some instances of a bad behavior sometimes and correct others; if you’ve decided this is your approach stick with it unless you see harm in following through. Don’t overreact out of frustration; think through what you’re going to do, and be sure it’s safe and something you’re gonna be comfortable reflecting on when it’s over.
  - mgarfias 5y ago
    I had a kitten that was relentless with her biting. One day she bit my hand, and without thinking I leaned down and not her ear. She never bit me after that.
- klowrey 5y ago
  It may be frowned upon, but we communicated to our cats that meowing at the door was not acceptable by discouraging them with a vacuum cleaner. Flip the switch on the vacuum and run the cord under the door to your bed side. Upon meow, quietly plug the vacuum in to activate -- if the cat senses that you activated the device, the process doesn't work. If "the environment" doesn't want them to meow at the door, they learn quickly. Of course give them lots of love in the morning and before bed.
  - knicholes 5y ago
    I tried programming my arduino to trigger a servo to pull the handle on a spray air can when a sound over a threshold was detected by the microphone, but the servo wasn't strong enough. Enabling an outlet to an already-plugged in vacuum sounds good, though. Excellent... I had plans to train a cat meow classifier so I wouldn't activate the can due to other noises, say a fire truck, fireworks, or a neighbor slamming a door shut.
    - daniellarusso 5y ago
      They actually sell these devices, but they are IR motion activated, not via sound. https://store.petsafe.net/ssscat-spray-pet-deterrent https://store.petsafe.net/ssscat-spray-pet-deterrent
      - Nursie 5y ago
        We have one of those, they're good but the refills are strangely expensive. Turns out they fit some standard brands of canned air, I picked up some branded "ecomoist air duster" and it works really well, although slightly quieter, it still seems to work on our kitty.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    Sounds like a good reason for a robot vacuum cleaner. "I'm just fiddling with my phone over here entirely not related to your meowing and the vacuum coming to get you!"
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Getting an automatic feeder has helped a lot. The cats used to wake us up at 3AM for food. Now it's much better. One of them still comes in at around 5:30AM to play, but that's not so bad.
  - trhway 5y ago
    not surprising giving that the cats are night hunters. With age though our cat was meowing if we were still up starting around 12am and until we'd go to bed, basically he was enforcing our the typical routine (and yes, he was sleeping with us, and the cats are big on routine)
- tracyhenry 5y ago
  Instead of intimidation, simply ignoring it (i.e. absolutely not opening the door whatsoever) can work. It can take a while so be patient. My kitty stopped meowing at night after I do this for two weeks, and has never since meowed at night.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    This is good advice but it’s going to vary by human more than pet. I have a lot better track record developing patience and a good discipline relationship with my pets by actively engaging, because I’m cognitively (ADHD, ASD) incapable of ignoring a lot of things and trying to force it brings out my worst, least intentional self.
- tverbeure 5y ago
  In the past year, the biggest quality of life improvements in our household were: - changing the door handles to door knobs, because our lovable asshole had long ago figured out how to open a door, and used that special trick every morning at 4:30am when he wanted to go out. - installing an RFID triggered electronic cat flap that we installed in the outside wall of my hobby room. It uses the RFID tag that was already in implanted in his neck. Ours is one from Sure Petcare, but there are multiple brands of course. The cat flap is amazing: it took roughly 1 day to teach him how to open and close it, and now he can leave and enter the house as he wishes: he usually leaves around 4:30am and comes back an hour or two later. We're extraordinary lucky that he taught himself to do this potty business outside, so we don't have a litter box. Once he learned how to use the flap, he stopped bothering us at night. An additional benefit is that we can now go out for a weekend without locking him up, using an automated feeder to make sure he stays happy. We can also check leaving/entering activity on an app. It's a life changer.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    The "Sure" flaps are great. We keep our cats in at night, and have the flap programmed to only allow inbound after 8pm, until about 6am (at this time of year), and it keeps other cats out.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Close door. Ignore meows. If meows continue or start up in the middle of the night and you can't ignore them, open the door suddenly, hiss at the cat and chase it away. You won't have to do this often. Our cats have (mostly) learned this. They are still affectionate, loving cats that desire our company, but they know that meowing at the bedroom door in the night is not allowed. (and we had to do this for the very same reason, our boy cat loves to be on the bed with us or in the room when we're sleeping. He loves it so much he has to get up and move around every few minutes, trill and purr at us, demand attention, walk around on his people etc etc. He can't be a night-time bed cat because he's just too into it!)
gilbetron 5y ago
We learned years ago that our cats get put in the lower part of our house with the door closed at night. We felt bad about it, but being able to sleep all night made up for it. Quick story: for several nights, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with horrendous stomach pains. I was thinking I needed to see the doctor it was so painful. Then on the fourth night when the pain hit I woke up fast enough to notice our cat walking off of my stomach. Turns out he (a 15 lb cat) had been jumping off a shelf through the air about 6 feet and landing directly on my gut. This was instrumental in the decision to keep them away from us ;)
- cunthorpe 5y ago
  That’s hilarious. Goes to show how impossible some “debugging” is. No sane doctor would say “so your stomach hurts at night, do you own a fat cat?”
  - mLuby 5y ago
    Sounds perfect for a Dr. House mystery.
    - yissp 5y ago
      IIRC there was an episode where someone's cat was the cause of their mysterious illness (toxoplasmosis I think).
      - cm2012 5y ago
        By the way, the common myth is misleading. Toxoplasmosis is almost always caused by undercooked meat, which is why it's so much more common in France. You can get it from cats but it's almost always stray cats, not house cats.
        moistly 5y ago
        I don’t think undercooked meat nor stray cats explain the 30–50% prevalence rate. You have a source for your claim? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/
eyelidlessness 5y ago
My most recent cat, who sadly died a couple years ago, was unusually snuggly. We slept in physical contact, often spooning some or all of the night, for most of the 12 years I had her. She was particularly well adapted to me, my habits and my schedule… I was very fortunate! I had a really rough bout of insomnia, along with a bad mental health stretch not long after she died. I didn’t make the connection until recently that sleep without my cat might have contributed. But now I have a particularly snuggly pup, which has improved my quality of sleep beyond even that previous high point. We definitely have to adapt more to each other’s schedule. But it’s surprisingly mutual adaptation, and surprisingly malleable. Sorry for the long personal response. I have no idea how much wiggle room there is with your cat(s), but I hope you find the benefits of the relationship worth whatever tradeoffs come with the sleep schedule.
- hirundo 5y ago
  My cat acted like she wanted to spoon, but her dastardly plan was to seize the exact center of the bed, and she was relentless at it. Like a chess player. Every night I'd wake up curled around the edges. So I guess I must be the first person dominated by the iron whim of a cat.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    Oh my cat did this too! I just happen to like sleeping that way.
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    As far as I can tell it is a common experience with dogs, cats and toddlers... good thing I love the buggers.
jv22222 5y ago
> "Sixty percent of cat owners sleep with their cats, which may enhance their sense of security and improve their quality of sleep" I regularly open my eyes in the middle of the night and my cat's face is about 5 inches away from mine, just sitting there perfectly still, staring at me.
- lehi 5y ago
  Count yourself lucky to wake up to that end.
- thrill 5y ago
  When I was a teenager I was having an odd dream of my nose really tickling as I came out of a deep sleep. I finally opened my eyes to see my Siamese sitting on my chest holding a struggling mouse by the tail over my snoring mouth. Its front paws had been scrabbling just on the edge of my upper lip.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    Lol (and gross!). My mom used to freak out when my cat used to bring such "gifts" for us (mostly mouse, occassionally squirrels that my mom would ask me to rescue, pissing off the cat) or just try to show-off to us what an apex predator he was by bringing his prey inside the house. The peak highlight was when I heard my mom scream one day and rushed to find her on top of the dining table as he had caught a 3 foot thin snake, already half dead, that he was enjoying chasing around inside the house.
  - tryauuum 5y ago
    "an average cat owner swallows 4-6 mice per year while sleeping"
- 55555 5y ago
  He is planning your murder.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Contemplating how much salt, pepper, onions and celery are going to be required to make the soup.
pluc 5y ago
If sleeping with a cat enhances your sense of security... try sleeping with a dog.
prirun 5y ago
I opened the door once one morning for my cat who was meowing. Big mistake! He started doing in on a regular basis of course. Ignoring him didn't work, so I started getting up and closing him in the basement until I got up a few hours later. After a few days of this, I'd open my door and he'd walk to the basement so I could shut him in. It took about 2 months, but he eventually quit the meowing. New rule: never, ever, open a door when a cat meows. If I'm ready to get up and my cats hear me rustling around and start meowing, I wait until they have stopped meowing for 15 minutes before opening the door.
- canada_dry 5y ago
  My kid's cat - I've taken care of since they've left for college - started scratching at the bedroom door earlier and earlier in the morning - because that's when it was fed. Now, it's fed at bedtime so it doesn't care what time I get up.
  - avh02 5y ago
    Yeah our cat's big meal is in the morning , I randomly change around when in my morning routine I feed them so they don't assume that just cos I'm up and about they'll be getting fed. It helped with them making noises at the door as soon as my alarm goes off in the morning (we kick them out if they're annoying at night). Otherwise they'd assume every time I open the door to go to the toilet or whatever is meal time.
xarope 5y ago
You must have had the same cats as I did, mine would figure some way to get into my room (either by hitting the door to dislodge the latch, or climbing up the roof to my 2nd storey window) and "ask" (demand?) me to feed them at 5.30am...
gadders 5y ago
I've always thought that sleeping with my cat improved my sleep. It's like as they're always on alert, you don't need to be.
Tenoke 5y ago
I'm a light sleeper and cat ownership has definitely worsen my sleep since they occasionally wake me up by making noise. I'd definitely not recommend a cat to someone hoping it will improve their sleep.

0x456 5y ago

Shockingly, it also has an effect on the brain microbiota of owners: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

machello13 5y ago
From that wikipedia article: > A common argument in the debate about whether cat ownership is ethical involves the question of toxoplasma gondii transmission to humans.[58] Even though "living in a household with a cat that used a litter box was strongly associated with infection,"[32] and that living with several kittens or any cat under one year of age has some significance,[59] several other studies claim to have shown that living in a household with a cat is not a significant risk factor for T. gondii infection. [49][60]

29athrowaway 5y ago

Some cats carry Toxoplasmosis gondii.

testfoobar 5y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted. "Toxoplasma gondii-A Gastrointestinal Pathogen Associated with Human Brain Diseases" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508738/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508738/
- Nursie 5y ago
  It's not like cats are the only source, undercooked meat is another major one (and is why pregnant women are advised not to eat rare steak). As a cat-owning rare-steak lover, I'm probably doomed.
whateveracct 5y ago
If you keep your cat indoors its entire life, that's not an issue to my understanding. There is a comical conspiracy theory that people only love cats because they have a brain parasite. I mostly hear it from people who think cats can't be sweet.
- aitchnyu 5y ago
  Why didnt scientists try to check toxo infection rates among cat-loving subreddits yet?
  - hamilyon2 5y ago
    Now we are talking real science, finally!

threevox 5y ago

Yet more evidence that people should stick with dogs as pets, as co-evolution intended /s

baoqdau 5y ago
this is canine propaganda
- pluc 5y ago
  Big Pet infighting
- CyanBird 5y ago
  It is But that doesn't make it untrue
jjtheblunt 5y ago
or both! /s

marricks 5y ago

Who knows what the net affect is but taking the final sentences of some of the results paragraphs makes it seem like taking care of a cat is a good idea: > [...] Therefore, cat ownership may be involved in mediating the abundance of disease-related gut microbes. > [...] Therefore, from the perspective of gut microbiota, our study not only supports that there might be no correlation between cat ownership and obesity but also clarifies that cat ownership can affect the structure and function of gut microbiota in NW [normal weight] individuals. Including all of this next paragraph as it all seems good... > Functional predictions indicated that cat ownership would lead to increased synthesis of B vitamins, amino acids and carbohydrate metabolism. Moreover, SCFA-related pathways (4-hydroxyphenylacetate degradation, TCA cycle VII (acetate producers), and glycerol degradation to butanol) were significantly increased. As the biosynthetic precursor of cofactors, vitamins play a vital role in organisms. The gut microbiota can provide various vitamins for the host [41]. Increasing glucose metabolism in the gut microbiota may be beneficial to host blood glucose control [42]. SCFAs can participate in intestinal epithelial energy supply, affect the intestinal environment (such as pH and electrolyte balance), and regulate host material and energy metabolism. SCFAs are related to the occurrence of various energy metabolism diseases. SCFAs have anti-inflammatory effects. Therefore, the influence of cat ownership on gut microbiota function may affect the health of the owner.

moistly 5y ago
Also posted on HN today: “Toxoplasmosis – A Global Threat. Correlation of Latent Toxoplasmosis with Specific Disease Burden in a Set of 88 Countries” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27599085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27599085 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3963851/
teekert 5y ago
As long as you keep it inside (where it isn't defecating in my garden, hunting my chickens or trying to get inside where I may lock it in by accident causing mayhem, etc, I'd like my pregnant wife to still be able to do gardening and also I like eating things from my garden). I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.

shusaku 5y ago

> Through self-reporting, we found 214 individuals who claimed that they owned cats but no other pet (Cat group), while 214 individuals who did not own a pet were matched with the Cat group by gender, body mass index (BMI), and age (no cat (NC) group) Somewhat tangential question, but what algorithm would you use in order to pick the control group here? And what if instead I wanted to build the largest control group that still matched the features of my test group?

brandmeyer 5y ago

If I'm reading the scatter plots correctly, it looks like the differences in the means between the two populations is much smaller than the one-sigma variation within each population. So while the correlations may technically be statistically significant, they aren't necessarily impactful.

setgree 5y ago
This is exactly the intuition behind Cohen’s d — the standard unit of comparison for meta-analysis. You take the mean difference between the treatment group and the control group, and divide that number by the standard deviation of the dependent variable, and then assess that result in many studies to see which treatment, or class of treatments, moved the needle the most.
ChickeNES 5y ago
> they aren't necessarily impactful. Much like PLoS ONE ;)

xaduha 5y ago

There's enough smoke there, that my vote is a 'no' on whether to get a cat or cats, especially if small children might be involved at some point.

trhway 5y ago
Sure, if you aren't ready for the cat taking guardianship role - my nephew grew up with the cat taking position beside him in his crib from the very first days he was brought home from the hospital.
- stordoff 5y ago
  My dogs did this when my sister was born, at least until she was moving around on her own. Whenever you put her down to change her, they'd lay a few feet away (one on each side) and growl if anyone they weren't sure of tried to get too close. I don't recall them ever growling at anything else, and were fine with visitors at any other time, so it really stood out.

ZEFuVQU3WpZz 5y ago

My family and I are all sound sleepers who sleep on our backs. Our cat, from the first day we acquired her at the pound until her last, would go from chest to chest during the night. There are few things nicer than waking up in the morning to a cat purring on your chest.

monsieurbanana 5y ago
> My family and I are all sound sleepers who sleep on our backs Serious brag right there
joshschreuder 5y ago
Usually depends on which end of the cat you wake up to :)
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Some cats are pretty good at recognizing you'd rather look at their face. Not enough though...
gumby 5y ago
My father started locking the cat out of my parents bedroom when he got into his 60s because "I'd wake up with the cat on my chest thinking I was having a heart attack."
spiffotron 5y ago
Our cat has taken to sitting on us and patting our face until we wake up rather than waiting for us to wake up naturally.

aaron695 5y ago

Cattle digestion improves when grazed with camels - https://www.rcsaustralia.com.au/cattle-digestion-improves-when-grazed-with-camels/ https://www.rcsaustralia.com.au/cattle-digestion-improves-wh... This co-habitation stuff is pretty interesting, but it'd be good to skip some steps and just analyse gut microbiota. You can literally buy a Leucaena inoculum for cattle so they can eat Leucaena. The tech seems better in cows than people.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

I got turned on to gut bacteria a couple+ years back after reading a feature article in the NY Times Sunday Magazine. While it didn't say so directly, a theory I took away from that article was that gut bacteria affects longevity. That is, couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria; pet owners much the same. Might there also be an emotional component to a longer and healthier life? Absolutely. Humans are complex systems. Nonetheless, the science and data seem to also be saying The Gut plays a significant role as well. It will be interesting to see how pandemic isolation (as well as ongoing WFH) affects long term (gut) health.

mattowen_uk 5y ago
> couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria Could you explain that a bit further please?
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Well, people living in close proximity exchange gut bacteria. A more robust gut is a boost to general health (e.g., immune system). You also get good bacteria from pets (e.g., dogs). On the other hand, when you live alone your gut doesn't get these benefits. So while it looks like there's an emotional-based downfall to living alone, it might also be the lack of gut diversity that cuts into your health and longevity.
ID1452319 5y ago
Do you take specific steps to improve your gut bacteria and if so what?
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  Pro biotics and a good diet.

r0b05 5y ago

The gut microbiota seems to have a major influence in the body in which they reside. Cat + human is only one of the examples of this symbiosis. The same can be said for any animal + human. Human + human is also true. A couple will tend to resemble each other in looks when living together for a while. If you think about it, the skin is just the outer layer of the gut. One can think of the body as a tubular structure with a couple of openings. The inside, includes the gut where most of the microbiota reside, but also on the skin, in the hair, in the mouth, etc. So when we kiss or touch, we are exchanging microbiota. Animals in this regard form a sort of proxy. They facilitate the transfer of the microbiota from human to human, including animal to human and human to animal. Overall it seems that diversity is preferable. That's one of the reasons that it's not good to be alone for too long as the microbiota diversity gets compromised. So getting a pet does actually work, be it a cat or dog.

aitchnyu 5y ago

Anybody explain what are the possible benefits/problems of the various bacterial population differences?

_user112 5y ago

I'm expecting more and more of these finding. Just how much human behaviour is driven by parasites, mycology and hormones of neighbouring animals/plants/fungi?

fouc 5y ago

I guess Toxmoplasmosis goes to the brain and doesn't spend time in the gut microbiota?