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> Hard work is often touted as the key American virtue that leads to success and opportunity. And there’s lots of evidence to suggest that workers buy into the
by ashtonkem 5y ago
> Hard work is often touted as the key American virtue that leads to success and opportunity. And there’s lots of evidence to suggest that workers buy into the belief: For example, a recent study found that Americans work 25 percent more hours than Europeans, and that U.S. workers tend to take fewer vacation days and retire later in life. But for many, simply working hard doesn’t actually lead to a better life.
I’d argue quite strongly that working more hours, taking less vacation, and retiring later is the definition of a worse life.
- lumost 5y agoThis depends, if an individual sacrifices more in the short-term to achieve better long-term outcomes as defined by themselves then it can be quite positive. The problem is when short-term sacrifice is simply short term sacrifice or will likely result in reduced expectations for the future.
- ashtonkem 5y agoI’d argue that “retiring later” precludes any argument for short term loss for long term gains. Generally retiring earlier is the long term gain that you take short term losses for, retiring is a sign that things haven’t gone as well as planned.
- lumost 5y agoIt depends, as an individual I'd prefer it if I didn't have to retire however I'd also prefer it if I didn't need to work. Retiring later could be a sign of longer health ( although I doubt that's the reality in this statistic ).
- lm28469 5y ago> Retiring later could be a sign of longer health It's a sign that you didn't manage to save enough in time. Soon retirement age will be over 70 pretty much everywhere in the west, nobody chose to work at that age for fun and giggles
- ashtonkem 5y agoSadly, US lifespans are actually shrinking too. So we’re retiring later and dying earlier, which is less than ideal.
- viro 5y ago> success and opportunity. Doesn't mean less stress. 21 vs 15.1 trillion. nearly double the GDP per capita.
- ska 5y ago> And there’s lots of evidence to suggest that workers buy into the belief This doesn't follow from [edit] the examples. It may be that most Americans don't believe the common story around hard work leading to success and opportunity, but do believe that if they don't work hard (or appear to, e.g. not take vacation) they will be punished; long hours etc. may just be table stakes in the US.
- alexgmcm 5y agoAmericans are also wealthier in general though, their houses are larger, they can afford better vacations and so on... I think a lot of Americans don't realise just how much higher salaries are in the USA. I guess the grass is always greener.
- forgotmysn 5y agoI'm not sure that perception is completely accurate though
- Barrin92 5y agoa lot of things in the US are larger (including unfortunately the people itself), however that's not necessarily an indicator of a better quality of life. The large houses and cars in particular have quite adverse social impacts. Low density living increases commute times, infrastructure cost, cost of housing, energy usage, and so forth. It's quite astonishing that the co2 emissions per capita in the US are almost three times as high as in the United Kingdom.
- simfree 5y agoOur lives here in the US certainly aren't 3x better than the UK, and for a large chunk of our country they would have a better life in the UK due to the NHS.
- inglor_cz 5y agoTBH British homes do not need as much heating/cooling due to the local climate, plus the density of population in Southeast England is crazy and commute times high as well. I wouldn't like to live in such an anthill.
- liberalbias998 5y agoOur houses usually being tiny and connected to two other ones helps on the heating bills; its a shared effort. Cooling is opening the window; turning on a fan and sweating your nads off. But only for a few weeks a year. The rest of the year the incessant drizzle and grey sky helps cool the building.
- paulpauper 5y agoIt all depends on the alternative. Being broke, living paycheck to paycheck, and no retirement savings also seems bad . I think a lot of young people these days , such as on Reddit and as part of the FIRE lifestyle, are putting in long hours so they can be able to retire early and have more time to enjoy life. Short-term pain for long-term gain.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoThe whole FIRE thing is a possibility for a very small portion of the population, in the top two, or maybe even just top income decile.
- KorematsuFred 5y agoI think article conflate a lot of complex variables to come to conclusion that it wishes to draw. It is not just dumb hard work that was regarded as American virtue. In fact Americans are quick to embrace technology to reduce workload, Americans rarely suffer from the luddite attitudes which are pretty common elsewhere in the world. As an immigrant, I think American virtues is about working hard for what you want rather than expecting someone else to do it for you. That notion of hard work is what American society values a lot even today. It is not just dumb work. I come from India where people think Farmers are hard workers because they work in hot sun where as Tech workers are lazy because they spend all their time in AC offices. I do not see such attitudes in USA at all. > a recent study found that Americans work 25 percent more hours than Europeans That also leads to significantly more per capita income for Americans and far better quality of life and not that this is voluntary. Unlike Europe where jobs are mostly "protected" by tighter labour laws, exiting a job is much harder and getting a new job is even harder. USA does not suffer from such problems. I know plenty of people who simply quit their jobs and spend their time doing nothing for few months before getting a new job. No study would put this as "vacation" but in reality has same effect as vacation. > that U.S. workers tend to take fewer vacation days and retire later in life This is voluntary too. > simply working hard doesn’t actually lead to a better life. This is purely arbitrary conclusion that does not follow automatically from studies that are at best anecdotally. > I’d argue quite strongly that working more hours, taking less vacation, and retiring later is the definition of a worse life. May be but this is very very subjective decision and we can not make such conclusions on behalf of other people.
- orwin 5y ago> I know plenty of people who simply quit their jobs and spend their time doing nothing for few months before getting a new job. No study would put this as "vacation" but in reality has same effect as vacation. Hey, i did that too, for 6 month last year, and i still have 7 weeks of paid vacation/year. And i did go sailing every afternoon last week (this week its harder as the tides are in my work hours).
- animalgonzales 5y ago> And there’s lots of evidence to suggest that workers buy into the belief it would be cool if people writing these pieces had a background in dialectical materialism. maybe people don't buy into the belief but are coerced into working more hours to *checks notes* not die?
- eli_gottlieb 5y agoI would have thought that basic economics would let you reason out that much, without even the need for advanced courses in diamat.
- ashtonkem 5y agoYou’d think so, but based on the output of some economists it seems like this is not the case.
- hanniabu 5y agoWorking longer and less vacation isn't buying into that belief. Many are doing this because it's what's required to make a living. Work shuns vacation and you don't want to get canned regardless of how much you hate your job because you need the money and many places don't even have paid vacation so it hurts you to take time off.