10 ms·

Total Beginners Guide to Guns

46 points by exolymph 5y ago

anonporridge 5y ago
Semi related. As a gun owning, second amendment appreciating west coast liberal, I've found conversations about gun rights with other liberals and leftists to be MUCH easier since both the civil unrest of summer 2020 and the Jan 6 insurrection. It seems that a lot of people have really had a rude awakening of two big facts. 1. the police aren't your personal bodyguards and no one is coming to save you when there is rioting in the streets 2. the extreme right is armed to the teeth and looks increasingly willing to use violence to slow their slide into irrelevancy and powerlessness.
- injidup 5y ago
  Such a sad state America is in that both left and right are prepping for armed civil conflict and consider it inevitable.
  - AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
    At least part of the blame goes mass media for not supporting a constructive dialog, but instead enforcing bubbles and amplifying mutual insults.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    I carry a first aid kit in my car to be prepared for some horrific medical emergency. Is it sad to make yourself ready for a horrifying, but historically likely event? Preparing for bad things doesn't mean you hope they happen. You should still you everything you can to avoid it. But you are an idiot if you choose to stick your head in the sand and pretend it can't happen.
    - EForEndeavour 5y ago
      > Is it sad to make yourself ready for a horrifying, but historically likely event? The sad part is the "historically likely" part, not the fact that you're prepping for it.
  - RhysU 5y ago
    I do not read a reasonable distrust of the government and one's fellow man to be discouraging. Inevitable is a strong perspective but anticipating tail events is not. Civilization is overdue for mean reversion. Life is unlikely to be above the historical average forever.
- brink 5y ago
  > 2. the extreme right is armed to the teeth and looks increasingly willing to use violence to slow their slide into irrelevancy and powerlessness. Kind of a weird accusation. This is what the left did during the riots last summer. Of course the right would be provoked to retort in kind.
  - AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
    > McCloskey has given to candidates of both parties... I find stupid people being distributed across political parties more or less evenly. [1] https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article251512028.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article2...
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    That was a reference to the insurrection, not the riots. We also have crazy elected representatives like this fucker, https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investigating-washington-state-rep-for-manifesto-urging-all-males https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investig... Show me a liberal elected representative rallying for mass slaughter of their ideological opponents and I'll arm myself against them just as strongly.
    - AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
      Hm... I've read through the document in your link [1] and it looks to me more like an excerpt from a bible study class than an attempt to raise the masses. I may be missing some context though. Liberal representatives (including those at federal level [2]) make enough worrisome statements. Now we can engage into the "he didn't mean that/she didn't mean that" game. The only way to win in this game is to say something like "I don't understand how a reasonable person can fail to see the difference between <...> and <...>". So instead of that we may turn to the facts of actual violence in 2020. This is left as an exercise to the reader. Note: if you decide to run your own small facts checking, don't use google. Use duckduckgo or bing. Yes, I know ddg uses google engine. No, I don't know why, but results are surprisingly different. Even in incognito mode. [1] https://www.spokesman.com/documents/2018/oct/25/biblical-basis-war/ https://www.spokesman.com/documents/2018/oct/25/biblical-bas... [2] https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/549514-traditional-media-yawns-as-maxine-waters-gets-pass-on-inciteful https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/549514-traditio...
- AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
  I think you've managed to make a comment upsetting both extreme lefties and moderate righties. (assuming there are not that many god-loving, only-country-music-listening, in-a-trailer-living extreme righties on this website)
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    If I've equally upset tribalists on both sides of the aisle, I consider that an absolute win.
- orwin 5y ago
  It is weird, but i think you should remind your leftists friends of the Black Panther movement. Open carry pretty much created the movement, and it could have been the dream of any leftist if the rainbow coalition was not stopped by Fred Hampton's assassination by the police. Netflix should really make a documentary on the BPP, the historian now practically agree on much of the main points (still miss classified files about CIA involvment, and a lot of FBI's). I really hoped the BLM movement could evolve into something like BPP, but i guess now it's harder to find time to read.
  - leephillips 5y ago
    It’s not a documentary, but Spike Lee’s movie about Malcolm X has some stirring scenes where the Panthers are marching with rifles.
- sarcasmatwork 5y ago
  Weird, because it's the left doing all the violence. BLM, antifa.. etc. The left incites more violence. https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08/10-times-democrats-urged-violence-against-trump-and-his-supporters/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08/10-times-democrats-urge... Having guns does not mean they are violent. The other sides are not rioting...
runbathtime 5y ago
You also need to learn the law of self defense, equally if not more important, if you plan to use a gun for self defense.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  I always worry that if I were to go through the process of buying a gun, on some level I'd feel compelled to use it in order to justify the time and expense. I've yet to be in any situation in my life where I need one, but I feel like if I had one, I'd start looking at things differently and asking myself: "Is this a situation that calls for the gun?" And that scares me much more than the potential for an intruder. (I say this not as a criticism of anyone else. It's just an observation and concern that I have for myself.) If I was a hunter, the concern would probably go away. Because hunters have a legitimate/legal reason to regularly use their firearms. But if I owned one for the purpose of self-defence, I'm pretty sure I'd go looking for situations that called for it.
  - runbathtime 5y ago
    Knowing the law would help clarify to you what justifies using it and when it does not for self defense. You don't go looking for situations that call for self defense, that is the opposite of self defense, usually.
  - tduberne 5y ago
    I once read something that went like: - do not carry a gun if you are not ready to draw it - do not draw a gun if you are not ready to shoot - do not shoot if you are not ready to kill Because when faced with an opponent with a gun, one moment of hesitation could mean your death. I also read (from a gun instructor) that if you intend to use a gun for self defense, you should know that using it will bankrupt you. Because even if you use it in a lawful way, the legal process that will determine that it was lawful costs more than the typical gun owner can carry financially. So I think you are right. I can understand how fear might push to buy a gun, but I definitely see it as a bad idea, even if the danger the person fears is real (which I think is often not the case). Using a gun is the end of your life. As a non American, it is often puzzling to read that there is even a debate about it.
girzel 5y ago
I loved reading the opening of this article because it felt like a voice from the "other side of the aisle" that I could actually understand and potentially engage with. I do not (shame on me) make a project out of reading and digesting right-wing discourse: if it sounds like Tucker, I flush it. But it was refreshing to hear this voice, which does not sound like Tucker. Never mind that "women, liberals, urbanites, and people of color" are probably buying more guns in order to defend themselves against Proud Boys, et al, these are still statements that seem grounded in reality, and display no more emotional bias than I've likely got in the other direction. Anyway, I was quite relieved to read this. > Millions of people of all walks of life have been buying firearms in record numbers as more rational people reject the culture war around this topic and recognize the need for self defense is still very real, even in an ‘advanced’ society. Women, liberals, urbanites, and people of color are some of the fastest growing groups of firearm owners, for example. > Regardless of politics or background, you are welcome here. We believe in modern and responsible gun ownership — and think our communities and civil debates will be much better off if people at least accurately understood the topic of firearms before arguing about or fearing them.
EForEndeavour 5y ago
> Cannabis: Note that even if you live in a state with legal marijuana, it’s still a crime at the federal level. These forms will ask if you are a “user of illegal drugs including marijuana.” There are no drug tests or verification. Always glad to see ridiculous laws effectively nullified by lack of enforcement.
joelbondurant 5y ago
USA members are what the AR-15 was made for.
GoodJokes 5y ago
Relevance? How is this not flagged?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rich_sasha 5y ago
It seems so important to Americans to own guns. I don't understand why, but sure, it's your country, live it like you like. For my side, I'm happy to know that people around me don't have guns. If I beep at a bad driver in front of me, he won't come out with a pistol. I won't be shot at by accident if I'm driving through a bad neighbourhood. If my neighbour gets drink, he might pee in my flowers, but won't come at me with a revolver.
- leephillips 5y ago
  And if he comes at you with a baseball bat, he can do so without fear.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    Can he? I could have a baseball bat too. Or I could just drive/run away. A baseball bat has a very limited range.
  - orwin 5y ago
    Easier to flee from a baseball bat man than a gun man. (i'm pro-gun and open carry in the US, but this argument is poor) BTW, the best argument for pro-gun, pro-open carry are the Black Panthers, and i think an armed marxist, anarchist or antifa movment that focus on autodefense and street occupation is the best way to fight back.
    - leephillips 5y ago
      I’ve also brought up the Black Panthers in this context. Both you and the other reply are correct, it’s easier to run from the bat-man. But, as you probably know, most people can’t hit anything with their sidearms beyond 20 feet away. And you may not be able to run away. There could be a baseball bat gang. Or there could be other people who need your protection; or you could be injured or disabled. But, more generally, I’d like to know why my argument is poor. One of the points in favor of allowing people the use of guns for self defense is that it helps the weak defend against the strong; and it helps anyone to defend against others with deadly weapons, whether firearms, bats, knives, or fists. Isn’t that so?
kthejoker2 5y ago
The actual total beginner guide to guns is go find some old retired military man like my dad and express interest in guns, and they will excitedly take you under their wing and ply you with all of their tools, knowledge, and experience. They (perhaps rightly so) see my generation and those that have followed as (in the large) not buying into America's gun culture. So they are always on the lookout for disciples.
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Zardoz: Zardoz speaks to you, his chosen ones. You have been raised up from brutality, to kill the brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your god gave you the gift of the gun. The gun is good. Exterminators: The gun is good. Zardoz: The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life, and poisons the earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the gun shoots death, and purifies the earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth and kill!

46 points by exolymph 5y ago

Semi related. As a gun owning, second amendment appreciating west coast liberal, I've found conversations about gun rights with other liberals and leftists to be MUCH easier since both the civil unrest of summer 2020 and the Jan 6 insurrection. It seems that a lot of people have really had a rude awakening of two big facts. 1. the police aren't your personal bodyguards and no one is coming to save you when there is rioting in the streets 2. the extreme right is armed to the teeth and looks increasingly willing to use violence to slow their slide into irrelevancy and powerlessness.

injidup 5y ago
Such a sad state America is in that both left and right are prepping for armed civil conflict and consider it inevitable.
- AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
  At least part of the blame goes mass media for not supporting a constructive dialog, but instead enforcing bubbles and amplifying mutual insults.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  I carry a first aid kit in my car to be prepared for some horrific medical emergency. Is it sad to make yourself ready for a horrifying, but historically likely event? Preparing for bad things doesn't mean you hope they happen. You should still you everything you can to avoid it. But you are an idiot if you choose to stick your head in the sand and pretend it can't happen.
  - EForEndeavour 5y ago
    > Is it sad to make yourself ready for a horrifying, but historically likely event? The sad part is the "historically likely" part, not the fact that you're prepping for it.
- RhysU 5y ago
  I do not read a reasonable distrust of the government and one's fellow man to be discouraging. Inevitable is a strong perspective but anticipating tail events is not. Civilization is overdue for mean reversion. Life is unlikely to be above the historical average forever.
brink 5y ago
> 2. the extreme right is armed to the teeth and looks increasingly willing to use violence to slow their slide into irrelevancy and powerlessness. Kind of a weird accusation. This is what the left did during the riots last summer. Of course the right would be provoked to retort in kind.
- AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
  > McCloskey has given to candidates of both parties... I find stupid people being distributed across political parties more or less evenly. [1] https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article251512028.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article2...
- anonporridge 5y ago
  That was a reference to the insurrection, not the riots. We also have crazy elected representatives like this fucker, https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investigating-washington-state-rep-for-manifesto-urging-all-males https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/414450-fbi-investig... Show me a liberal elected representative rallying for mass slaughter of their ideological opponents and I'll arm myself against them just as strongly.
  - AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
    Hm... I've read through the document in your link [1] and it looks to me more like an excerpt from a bible study class than an attempt to raise the masses. I may be missing some context though. Liberal representatives (including those at federal level [2]) make enough worrisome statements. Now we can engage into the "he didn't mean that/she didn't mean that" game. The only way to win in this game is to say something like "I don't understand how a reasonable person can fail to see the difference between <...> and <...>". So instead of that we may turn to the facts of actual violence in 2020. This is left as an exercise to the reader. Note: if you decide to run your own small facts checking, don't use google. Use duckduckgo or bing. Yes, I know ddg uses google engine. No, I don't know why, but results are surprisingly different. Even in incognito mode. [1] https://www.spokesman.com/documents/2018/oct/25/biblical-basis-war/ https://www.spokesman.com/documents/2018/oct/25/biblical-bas... [2] https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/549514-traditional-media-yawns-as-maxine-waters-gets-pass-on-inciteful https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/549514-traditio...
AlexTWithBeard 5y ago
I think you've managed to make a comment upsetting both extreme lefties and moderate righties. (assuming there are not that many god-loving, only-country-music-listening, in-a-trailer-living extreme righties on this website)
- anonporridge 5y ago
  If I've equally upset tribalists on both sides of the aisle, I consider that an absolute win.
orwin 5y ago
It is weird, but i think you should remind your leftists friends of the Black Panther movement. Open carry pretty much created the movement, and it could have been the dream of any leftist if the rainbow coalition was not stopped by Fred Hampton's assassination by the police. Netflix should really make a documentary on the BPP, the historian now practically agree on much of the main points (still miss classified files about CIA involvment, and a lot of FBI's). I really hoped the BLM movement could evolve into something like BPP, but i guess now it's harder to find time to read.
- leephillips 5y ago
  It’s not a documentary, but Spike Lee’s movie about Malcolm X has some stirring scenes where the Panthers are marching with rifles.
sarcasmatwork 5y ago
Weird, because it's the left doing all the violence. BLM, antifa.. etc. The left incites more violence. https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08/10-times-democrats-urged-violence-against-trump-and-his-supporters/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08/10-times-democrats-urge... Having guns does not mean they are violent. The other sides are not rioting...

runbathtime 5y ago

You also need to learn the law of self defense, equally if not more important, if you plan to use a gun for self defense.

nickelcitymario 5y ago
I always worry that if I were to go through the process of buying a gun, on some level I'd feel compelled to use it in order to justify the time and expense. I've yet to be in any situation in my life where I need one, but I feel like if I had one, I'd start looking at things differently and asking myself: "Is this a situation that calls for the gun?" And that scares me much more than the potential for an intruder. (I say this not as a criticism of anyone else. It's just an observation and concern that I have for myself.) If I was a hunter, the concern would probably go away. Because hunters have a legitimate/legal reason to regularly use their firearms. But if I owned one for the purpose of self-defence, I'm pretty sure I'd go looking for situations that called for it.
- runbathtime 5y ago
  Knowing the law would help clarify to you what justifies using it and when it does not for self defense. You don't go looking for situations that call for self defense, that is the opposite of self defense, usually.
- tduberne 5y ago
  I once read something that went like: - do not carry a gun if you are not ready to draw it - do not draw a gun if you are not ready to shoot - do not shoot if you are not ready to kill Because when faced with an opponent with a gun, one moment of hesitation could mean your death. I also read (from a gun instructor) that if you intend to use a gun for self defense, you should know that using it will bankrupt you. Because even if you use it in a lawful way, the legal process that will determine that it was lawful costs more than the typical gun owner can carry financially. So I think you are right. I can understand how fear might push to buy a gun, but I definitely see it as a bad idea, even if the danger the person fears is real (which I think is often not the case). Using a gun is the end of your life. As a non American, it is often puzzling to read that there is even a debate about it.

girzel 5y ago

I loved reading the opening of this article because it felt like a voice from the "other side of the aisle" that I could actually understand and potentially engage with. I do not (shame on me) make a project out of reading and digesting right-wing discourse: if it sounds like Tucker, I flush it. But it was refreshing to hear this voice, which does not sound like Tucker. Never mind that "women, liberals, urbanites, and people of color" are probably buying more guns in order to defend themselves against Proud Boys, et al, these are still statements that seem grounded in reality, and display no more emotional bias than I've likely got in the other direction. Anyway, I was quite relieved to read this. > Millions of people of all walks of life have been buying firearms in record numbers as more rational people reject the culture war around this topic and recognize the need for self defense is still very real, even in an ‘advanced’ society. Women, liberals, urbanites, and people of color are some of the fastest growing groups of firearm owners, for example. > Regardless of politics or background, you are welcome here. We believe in modern and responsible gun ownership — and think our communities and civil debates will be much better off if people at least accurately understood the topic of firearms before arguing about or fearing them.

EForEndeavour 5y ago

> Cannabis: Note that even if you live in a state with legal marijuana, it’s still a crime at the federal level. These forms will ask if you are a “user of illegal drugs including marijuana.” There are no drug tests or verification. Always glad to see ridiculous laws effectively nullified by lack of enforcement.

joelbondurant 5y ago

USA members are what the AR-15 was made for.

GoodJokes 5y ago

Relevance? How is this not flagged?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rich_sasha 5y ago

It seems so important to Americans to own guns. I don't understand why, but sure, it's your country, live it like you like. For my side, I'm happy to know that people around me don't have guns. If I beep at a bad driver in front of me, he won't come out with a pistol. I won't be shot at by accident if I'm driving through a bad neighbourhood. If my neighbour gets drink, he might pee in my flowers, but won't come at me with a revolver.

leephillips 5y ago
And if he comes at you with a baseball bat, he can do so without fear.
- Volundr 5y ago
  Can he? I could have a baseball bat too. Or I could just drive/run away. A baseball bat has a very limited range.
- orwin 5y ago
  Easier to flee from a baseball bat man than a gun man. (i'm pro-gun and open carry in the US, but this argument is poor) BTW, the best argument for pro-gun, pro-open carry are the Black Panthers, and i think an armed marxist, anarchist or antifa movment that focus on autodefense and street occupation is the best way to fight back.
  - leephillips 5y ago
    I’ve also brought up the Black Panthers in this context. Both you and the other reply are correct, it’s easier to run from the bat-man. But, as you probably know, most people can’t hit anything with their sidearms beyond 20 feet away. And you may not be able to run away. There could be a baseball bat gang. Or there could be other people who need your protection; or you could be injured or disabled. But, more generally, I’d like to know why my argument is poor. One of the points in favor of allowing people the use of guns for self defense is that it helps the weak defend against the strong; and it helps anyone to defend against others with deadly weapons, whether firearms, bats, knives, or fists. Isn’t that so?

kthejoker2 5y ago

The actual total beginner guide to guns is go find some old retired military man like my dad and express interest in guns, and they will excitedly take you under their wing and ply you with all of their tools, knowledge, and experience. They (perhaps rightly so) see my generation and those that have followed as (in the large) not buying into America's gun culture. So they are always on the lookout for disciples.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

Zardoz: Zardoz speaks to you, his chosen ones. You have been raised up from brutality, to kill the brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your god gave you the gift of the gun. The gun is good. Exterminators: The gun is good. Zardoz: The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life, and poisons the earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the gun shoots death, and purifies the earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth and kill!