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Audi will halt new gas and diesel cars by 2026

51 points by mrfusion 5y ago

antiterra 5y ago
I feel like, in the near term, this has created a bit of a ‘buy a v8 while you can’ mentality with negative environmental effect. It’s part of why I just bought a 500hp SUV that averages 9 mpg when my foot gets heavy. (I do feel a little guilty.)
- brtkdotse 5y ago
  > 500hp SUV Environmental issues aside, this sounds like a comically impractical vehicle.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    It’s smaller than the minivan it replaces and is more comfortable with less road & wind noise. It often switches to four cylinders for whatever effect that gives.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
    Correct. And Tesla's Plaid is twice as comical. The Model S Plaid features Tesla's first-ever triple-motor system, producing a staggering 1,020 horsepower and 1,050 lb-ft of torque. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2021/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2021/2022-tesl...
  - gambiting 5y ago
    I mean......I find that you can have both power and practicality, but you don't get there by buying a massive V8 SUV. I got a Volvo XC60 T8 last year, a plug in hybrid. Rated at 400bhp total. Silly amount of power, way more than anyone needs. But.....I very rarely use it. The electric range of about 25 miles means I complete 95% of my daily journeys on electric power alone. My long term efficiency is about 120mpg(imperial). But that power is still there if I need it - it had absolutely no problems accelerating to and going 140mph on the autobahn, it was great for a 800 mile drive across Europe. It's spacious, comfortable......and the fuel economy is great in daily use. But I feel like I grew out of a stage where a supercharged Range Rover V8 or a GLE63 AMG would have been the dream - my next car will be full EV if anything.
    - stefan_ 5y ago
      You are the exception. A ton of these cars are hybrids for nothing more than tax reasons and returned to the dealership after a 3y lease with the charging cable still wrapped in the back.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        I know, it's shocking. According to Volvo's own statistics something absolutely insane like 70% of all owners never even plug them in. You should lose the tax exemption entirely if you do that if you ask me. Funnily enough I didn't get any tax benefit as it was a private purchase, but here in UK if you buy it as a company vehicle the taxes on it are very low(used to be zero I think).
        stefan_ 5y ago
        It's not just tax, of course - we can't excuse Volvo either, they make these cars for regulatory credit knowing fully well people won't use the electric part. (And of course we need to blame the regulators that allow this, also knowing fully well what is happening.)
  - sharken 5y ago
    Plenty of SUVs tick the 500hp checkbox such as BMW X6, Land Rover Sport, Mercedes GL63 etc. Where I live they're almost exclusively leased for a period of 12 months or less and are used mostly in large cities. I can only speculate that it's a status symbol, which for some is more important than small details such as miles per gallon.
    - antiterra 5y ago
      Mine looks unassuming, nearly the same as the 4 cylinder model. ‘Status symbol’ is too close to ‘me first against the wall in class war’ for me.
  - cout 5y ago
    The electric F150 Lightning puts out over 500hp, and I think the Cybertruck is expected to as well. Are these vehicles also comically impractical?
    - duped 5y ago
      For the vast majority of people, yes.
    - chillwaves 5y ago
      Apples to oranges.
  - abcd_f 5y ago
    This combo has its pluses. I used to have a 5l x6 (550hp or thereabouts?) and its 0-60 kmh time from a red light was a very big bonus in the morning rush traffic ^__^
    - catillac 5y ago
      It seems exceedingly dangerous to be going from 0-60 form stoplights in morning rush traffic. It’s fine if it’s a danger to you, but you would eventually kill someone who didn’t sign up for that.
      - huhtenberg 5y ago
        60 _km_/h
      - abcd_f 5y ago
        60 kilometers per hour, the posted speed limit. Look both ways, then gradually accelerate, but at a slightly faster rate than the most. Pray tell why you think that I “would eventually kill someone”.
        catillac 5y ago
        By accelerating from 0-60 quickly in your 500hp vehicle in rush hour traffic. A vehicle with high horsepower means you can do that very quick, and rush hour traffic means there are lots of people around. Lots of acceleration + lots of people around means significantly higher risk of grevious injury or death. It’s irresponsible and I don’t mind if people disagree with that.
        dm319 5y ago
        I'm not sure I agree with you about this - I think your absolute speed is the main safety concern. If you're accelerating hard to the same speed, I don't see much added danger to that. You reach the road speed earlier, but you'd be traveling slower than someone going through the junction on a green light. The danger is people doing slightly higher than the speed limit in residential areas, which makes accidents harder to avoid and the speed of hitting a pedestrian higher increasing their risk of death. The only situation where I see fast acceleration being dangerous is where other cars are pulling out and seeing you are traveling slowly but not expecting you to accelerate fast. They are likely to pull out on you. I think if you're accelerating hard you have to be aware of this and not do it before junctions or be prepared to ease off.
- iso1210 5y ago
  You live in a country where people modify their vehicles to deliberately cause more pollution - and not just CO2 emissions, but local particulates that do immediate damage to your community. Appeasing that mentality is not the solution.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    It’s more that I think responsible way to write about these changes is to write about all the awesome EVs in development instead of pointing out a nearing scarcity of what people like and are used to.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  Electric motors are better at being a big V8 than a big V8 is. Its like God came down and said "In fact there is a replacement for displacement! behold!" A model X has about that same power, goes faster for it, and you can put a dead body in the front where the engine isn't.
  - b3kart 5y ago
    But does it go vroom vroom when you accelerate? No? Waste of time... /s
    - wumpus 5y ago
      All you need is a smartphone app for that.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Loud speakers in the interior and exhaust, like all modern cars that go vroom. Not that modern engines make any sound anymore.
        antiterra 5y ago
        There is no speaker in my exhaust and there are three resonators to tone down its sound.
        hef19898 5y ago
        Depends on the car. You can have speakers, valves,... anything to make a modern, powerful 4 cylinder turbo engine sound like a Group B rally car. The more upmarket and sportive the car, the more likely.
        wumpus 5y ago
        Can't you just hold your cellphone up to your ear? Use the cellphone accelerometer to figure out what noise to make. I'm sure this app would make at least dozens of dollars.
- dm319 5y ago
  The way you use the word 'created' makes me think you are externalising the ethics of your choices.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    I am aware of the ethics of my choices, and they are not always good, particularly eating meat. Where I live, fossil fuels still make most of the electricity anyway, and while electric vehicles allow for taking advantage of a cleaner grid, we’re not there yet. Further, when saying ‘created,’ I am talking more about a market effect on a larger section of the population.
- markvdb 5y ago
  Do you know what made you do this? Can you explain? I would honestly like to understand.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    I blame Edward Bernays.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    Seating and cargo capacity, smaller than the minivan it replaces, comfortable ride if I want it, reassuringly fast acceleration onto the uncontrolled highway intersection by my home, fun, bumpers align with all the trucks and other SUVs, solid quality AWD (unlike the Volvo hybrid.) Might be worth noting there are heavier and less efficient cars, it’s not at the top of the list for either of those things. What’s difficult to understand?
    - markvdb 5y ago
      I come in from a rather different angle. I currently own a 2007 diesel station wagon, mostly by accident. It's a hand-me-down from my parents. Fuel consumption is 4.25l/100km (~55 mpg). It's plenty comfortable to me. It has the safety features that matter (ABS, airbags and whatnot). I've never ended up in an unsafe situation due to a lack of acceleration either. It's got plenty of cargo capacity on its own. In the unlikely event I need more, I can easily hook up a trailer. Which is exactly what I plan to do on the way to the holiday house this summer. Plenty of rather rough unpaved roads there, and yet hardly an SUV to be seen. All of this fits well with a personal strategy: - frugal. I try not to spend more than the median unskilled labourer reasonably can. - political. I try to make sure as little as possible money goes to Russian (48%), Saudi (~20%) or other middle eastern (~5%) oil firms of vey questionable ethical reputation. Just thinking of Mohammed Bin Salman is stomach turning enough for me to lower my speed to the fuel efficiency optimum. - ecological. Used car, fairly clean burning engine, using it as little as possible, driving it at optimal speed ~90km/h (~56mph) . My significant other is on board with this. The tradeoff was between owning a car or not. She absolutely wants one. I absolutely want what we own to be frugal, aligned with our political choices and ecological. I can really appreciate the engineering that went into a massive engine, very much so. Same for a friend's custom leather car upholstery rework. True work of art. An acquaintance of a friend's converted an old Volvo 240 to run on wood (!) [0]. To me, the comfort and fun you described sound bland, hollow, empty even in comparison. Why go with the boring highly polluting v8 when you can get something similarly boring with more positive externalities instead?
- hellotomyrars 5y ago
  Okay but... why? I own two vehicles, One is a cheap base model Kia Soul that I got used for very little. I also own an F-350 Dually Super Duty King Ranch edition. I used to use the truck to tow my house (42 foot fifth-wheel). It's somewhere in the 500HP range, but I needed it for what I was doing at the time. Got about 8 MPG highway pulling the fifth-wheel. Nowadays I use the cheap Kia for almost everything, because I don't need 500 ponies under the hood and parking that monster sucks as well. I get that a cheap Kia maybe isn't a fun car for most people, especially when they can afford a lot more car, but you don't need to get a giant SUV just to spend a lot of money on a nice/fancy car. Do you have literally any specific need for that vehicle other than the fear you won't be able to get one later? I just don't get it. It isn't like electric is lacking in power either.
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
That's quite a badly written headline and article - are they saying they won't sell new gas cars by 2026 (but still resell 2nd hand ones) or they won't create new gas models by 2026 - I guess the latter.
- scoot 5y ago
  Seems pretty clear - no new gas/petrol/diesel models by 2016; no hybrid or full electric in the range by 2028. Hybrids mostly exist to tick a regulatory box, so a fully electric-only range will be a long time coming without further government intervention.
- instance 5y ago
  I've checked the original source [0]: You've guessed right. They specifically said they won't be introducing/creating new gas models. Nowhere do they say that they won't sell old inventory. [0] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/audi-verbrenner-elektromobilitaet-1.5325505?reduced=true https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/audi-verbrenner-elekt...
- cout 5y ago
  It looks like the article has been updated. "Editor‘s note: A previous version of this article stated Audi would stop making gas cars by 2026. Instead, Audi will no longer bring new gas cars to market by 2026. This has been corrected."
dm319 5y ago
I picked up through my work an Audi E-tron 50. It was a second car, so I wasn't riding everything on it. What surprised me is that I am going to resist ever buying a car with an ICE now. People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change. The smooth constant acceleration, quiet ride, not needing to visit petrol stations, long service intervals and lack of particles coming out the back has converted me. If I was running a car company, I would not be throwing any R+D at the ICE range. EDIT: Just to add that the reviews didn't really represent to me the car that I got. They largely compared it to performance Teslas, and noted that it was slower, shorter-ranged and less efficient than Teslas. But I think a lot of reviewers miss the point. A fast Tesla (LR models, let alone performance) is so fast it beats my motorbike, which is normally faster than most performance ICE cars. I think the general public haven't quite grokked that yet, so have no idea just how fast 300hp with torque available all the time actually is.
- Grim-444 5y ago
  My personal counter arguments: "People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change" - so .. you're admitting it's not in the state it needs to be, and you're hoping that changes in the future? I'm moments away from heading out on a backcountry trip in the desert east of the cascades - how long would you estimate it would take for fast charging points to exist even within even a hundred miles of where I'm about to go? I'm also able to just strap on extra gallons of fuel if I want to extend my range even further. "The smooth constant acceleration" - Not really sure how this is a benefit at all, unless you're comparing sports cars. "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. "not needing to visit petrol stations" - I guess this is a benefit, of course it's offset by needing charging infrastructure both in your house and wherever you go, neither of which exist for me, but what does exist are millions of gas stations which are incredibly convenient to get to and spend 5 minutes at in order to be able to drive hundreds of more miles. There will be a gas station in the tiny towns on my route today, there won't be charging stations, let alone fast charging stations. "long service intervals" - There's some benefit here, although you still have regular maintenance that still has to be done, it doesn't eliminate it. Even still, it's a trivial amount of time to do basic maintenance on my vehicle. "lack of particles coming out the back" - As long as the electricity you power it with didn't come from a dirty source, like most are, sure. In general, if all you use your vehicle for are little trips around the area of a major city, then yeah you can make it work. If you actually use your vehicle as a vehicle, it still doesn't remotely make sense.
11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
>Audi would stop introducing new fossil fuel burning cars by 2026. Additionally, their lineup will only consist of “e-” branded cars by 2028. If I read this correctly, they will not introduce new product lines starting 2026, and, stop selling ICE cars entirely in 2028. Is that the correct reading? If so, it seems monumental(?) that a company like Audi would endeavor to transform their company from ICE (97% in 2020) to 100% BEV (3% in 2020) [0] over 8 years. The manufacturing supply chain and employee composition (including sub-tier suppliers) will endure a period of major change. [0] https://insideevs.com/news/465756/2020-audi-etron-electric-car-sales/ https://insideevs.com/news/465756/2020-audi-etron-electric-c...
- codeulike 5y ago
  Unless "e-branded" means hybrids? Hard to tell. edit: OK sounds like "e-branded" might also include things like the "Audi A3 TFSI e" which is a PHEV
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    So, for example today you can buy an Audi A3 TFSI e. That's a petrol engined car, but it's a PHEV, if you plug it in to the wall in my country in about six hours (so overnight or while at the office) you've got 40 miles manufacturers range on battery. In many countries that are banning new sales of pure ICE cars over the next decade or so, PHEVs remain legal. So yes I can see these variants still existing in Audi's range in 2030, while the plain Petrol variants are now end-of-line. Meanwhile Audi has other models which are actually BEVs with a much larger range (300+ miles between charges) of course, and those would definitely continue to be refined under this policy.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  The thing is, Audi is just one brand that is part of the VW conglomerate. Its their luxury brand, just below their Porsche brand. They could easily turn Audi into their Tesla-competing luxury brand and have it pure EV, while still having VW (and Skoda in Europe) pump out ICE vehicles like crazy, and impact nothing in terms of overall CO2 emissions.
amelius 5y ago
Can Tesla be removed from the headline?
- dang 5y ago
  Yes. It was there only as a bit of site marketing and we always take those out.
abcd_f 5y ago
In related news - if you ever wanted the S series, now is the time to pick one up. I went it to look at their e-trons and tfsi-e (hybrids), because that’s what responsible adults do nowadays, and ended up leaving with an S6, because it was just a complete no-brainer of a choice. Hybrids are basically a joke, something just to make you feel good about yourself. Slow, boring behemoths. Audi’s electrics are lagging behind Tesla by several years. In the absence of Tesla it could’ve been an option if you were after an e-car, but as it stands now it’s like buying an upscale SVGA card instead of a GPU. And then you look at what Audi does the best and realize that a fully loaded S6 is cheaper than Tesla AND it comes with a round steering wheel! Bah, I’ll take two.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  Imagine in 2021 thinking HN would be positively receptive to someone boasting about choosing a $75k S6 ICE, polluting over the next 20 years at 22mpg, over an EV. Money is not an issue and yet there's no mention of climate change, only that it was a "no-brainer."
  - abcd_f 5y ago
    It’s 7.5 l/100km, which is 32 mpg if my math is correct.
    - reducesuffering 5y ago
      Average city and highway usage is estimated to be 22mpg.[0] [0]https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42615 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42615
  - yumraj 5y ago
    60% of US electricity still comes from Coal and Natural Gas [0], which are polluting. So, an EV is nothing more than an increase in mileage - it's not like it's suddenly Zero polluting, unless of course you're charging from at-home Solar. Now of course I don't know the efficiency, or amount of pollutants (CO2 and other) released compare between gas engines and coal/natural gas power plants, so the actual increase in mileage and environmental benefit might be different, but it is certainly not 100%. Has anyone come across any study that compares the two? Public transport, remote working and so on have a much much larger impact IMHO. [0] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-...
chris_va 5y ago
(disclaimer: I work in a climate&energy group) I personally wish they would just continue selling gas cars, but with a lifetime fuel emissions offset built into the price. That would rapidly improve the maturity of carbon offset markets, which is needed for decarbonization across many industries (not just automotive) and has been slow going. Random math: 200e3miles/(30miles/gallon)*8.89kg/gallon*$100/(1000kg) ~= $6000
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  That's my opinion too. Excise taxes on gas cars are better than carbon taxes applied to gasoline and diesel. Because what you want is people to stop buying gas cars, not revenue. Bonus can use the excise tax revenue to fund buyback and down payment assistance programs. Helping someone replace their older gas car with a new(er) electric also results on a lot less political blow back than raising the gas tax.
  - ganoushoreilly 5y ago
    There's also dealing with the issue of federal and state losses from taxes from fuel, these will need to be offset. Between state and federal, it's anywhere from .40c or more per gallon in taxes now lost. That's money put towards roads and maintenance (somewhere). I imagine we're going to end up seeing a mileage use tax on EV's as well.
    - Gibbon1 5y ago
      One of my side thoughts is ordinary people drive a lot more than they want to. The reason being is we don't ding businesses and housing developers directly for the commuter traffic they generate. Instead we focus on cars MPG and not on workplaces forcing their workers into 50-100 mile commutes. You end up with the bosses live five minutes away from work (convenient). And their employees live 30-50 miles away. And the boss never sees that cost on the corporate balance sheet.
- elif 5y ago
  Why would it make sense for audi to continue selling gas cars due to a surcharge? Presumably it is already not economically viable already
underseacables 5y ago
Does it make sense to buy a traditional vehicle these days? It seems the trend is moving towards hybrids and all electric. We get a lot of snow where I live, I mean a lot of snow, and I’ve always wanted a jeep, or a nice big SUV. But I’m afraid of spending money on a combustion engine, when we may be heading in a completely different direction and I may be stuck with a clunker essentially.
- catillac 5y ago
  Yeah, we moved to the country following the COVID Tech Exodus from cities and there are no charging stations reasonably conveniently located. We are at end of life for our ICE car and are looking at options to purchase in the next 12 months. We may look at a hybrid, but will likely get a traditional vehicle. That calculus will likely change in a decade. Your question is really assuming everyone has the money for the practical EV vehicle they need and that they live in or near enough locations for charging. That is only the case for a small but growing portion of society.
  - adflux 5y ago
    How about people without dedicated charging spaces, let alone parking spaces? I would want an electric car, but I can't charge it where I park it. So I wont buy one.
  - underseacables 5y ago
    Oh gosh you hit the nail on the head. We have very few charging stations in my area. I’ve seen a few Ev’s coming that are on he lower end, but I’m feeling resigned to an ICE car, maybe something used, as a stop gap until I can save up for a hybrid.
- mustafa_pasi 5y ago
  My prediction is that used ICE cars will appreciate in value as less ICE models get sold.
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badcede 5y ago
That's what they all say.

51 points by mrfusion 5y ago

I feel like, in the near term, this has created a bit of a ‘buy a v8 while you can’ mentality with negative environmental effect. It’s part of why I just bought a 500hp SUV that averages 9 mpg when my foot gets heavy. (I do feel a little guilty.)

brtkdotse 5y ago
> 500hp SUV Environmental issues aside, this sounds like a comically impractical vehicle.
- antiterra 5y ago
  It’s smaller than the minivan it replaces and is more comfortable with less road & wind noise. It often switches to four cylinders for whatever effect that gives.
- 11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
  Correct. And Tesla's Plaid is twice as comical. The Model S Plaid features Tesla's first-ever triple-motor system, producing a staggering 1,020 horsepower and 1,050 lb-ft of torque. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2021/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2021/2022-tesl...
- gambiting 5y ago
  I mean......I find that you can have both power and practicality, but you don't get there by buying a massive V8 SUV. I got a Volvo XC60 T8 last year, a plug in hybrid. Rated at 400bhp total. Silly amount of power, way more than anyone needs. But.....I very rarely use it. The electric range of about 25 miles means I complete 95% of my daily journeys on electric power alone. My long term efficiency is about 120mpg(imperial). But that power is still there if I need it - it had absolutely no problems accelerating to and going 140mph on the autobahn, it was great for a 800 mile drive across Europe. It's spacious, comfortable......and the fuel economy is great in daily use. But I feel like I grew out of a stage where a supercharged Range Rover V8 or a GLE63 AMG would have been the dream - my next car will be full EV if anything.
  - stefan_ 5y ago
    You are the exception. A ton of these cars are hybrids for nothing more than tax reasons and returned to the dealership after a 3y lease with the charging cable still wrapped in the back.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      I know, it's shocking. According to Volvo's own statistics something absolutely insane like 70% of all owners never even plug them in. You should lose the tax exemption entirely if you do that if you ask me. Funnily enough I didn't get any tax benefit as it was a private purchase, but here in UK if you buy it as a company vehicle the taxes on it are very low(used to be zero I think).
      - stefan_ 5y ago
        It's not just tax, of course - we can't excuse Volvo either, they make these cars for regulatory credit knowing fully well people won't use the electric part. (And of course we need to blame the regulators that allow this, also knowing fully well what is happening.)
- sharken 5y ago
  Plenty of SUVs tick the 500hp checkbox such as BMW X6, Land Rover Sport, Mercedes GL63 etc. Where I live they're almost exclusively leased for a period of 12 months or less and are used mostly in large cities. I can only speculate that it's a status symbol, which for some is more important than small details such as miles per gallon.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    Mine looks unassuming, nearly the same as the 4 cylinder model. ‘Status symbol’ is too close to ‘me first against the wall in class war’ for me.
- cout 5y ago
  The electric F150 Lightning puts out over 500hp, and I think the Cybertruck is expected to as well. Are these vehicles also comically impractical?
  - duped 5y ago
    For the vast majority of people, yes.
  - chillwaves 5y ago
    Apples to oranges.
- abcd_f 5y ago
  This combo has its pluses. I used to have a 5l x6 (550hp or thereabouts?) and its 0-60 kmh time from a red light was a very big bonus in the morning rush traffic ^__^
  - catillac 5y ago
    It seems exceedingly dangerous to be going from 0-60 form stoplights in morning rush traffic. It’s fine if it’s a danger to you, but you would eventually kill someone who didn’t sign up for that.
    - huhtenberg 5y ago
      60 _km_/h
    - abcd_f 5y ago
      60 kilometers per hour, the posted speed limit. Look both ways, then gradually accelerate, but at a slightly faster rate than the most. Pray tell why you think that I “would eventually kill someone”.
      - catillac 5y ago
        By accelerating from 0-60 quickly in your 500hp vehicle in rush hour traffic. A vehicle with high horsepower means you can do that very quick, and rush hour traffic means there are lots of people around. Lots of acceleration + lots of people around means significantly higher risk of grevious injury or death. It’s irresponsible and I don’t mind if people disagree with that.
        dm319 5y ago
        I'm not sure I agree with you about this - I think your absolute speed is the main safety concern. If you're accelerating hard to the same speed, I don't see much added danger to that. You reach the road speed earlier, but you'd be traveling slower than someone going through the junction on a green light. The danger is people doing slightly higher than the speed limit in residential areas, which makes accidents harder to avoid and the speed of hitting a pedestrian higher increasing their risk of death. The only situation where I see fast acceleration being dangerous is where other cars are pulling out and seeing you are traveling slowly but not expecting you to accelerate fast. They are likely to pull out on you. I think if you're accelerating hard you have to be aware of this and not do it before junctions or be prepared to ease off.
iso1210 5y ago
You live in a country where people modify their vehicles to deliberately cause more pollution - and not just CO2 emissions, but local particulates that do immediate damage to your community. Appeasing that mentality is not the solution.
- antiterra 5y ago
  It’s more that I think responsible way to write about these changes is to write about all the awesome EVs in development instead of pointing out a nearing scarcity of what people like and are used to.
gameswithgo 5y ago
Electric motors are better at being a big V8 than a big V8 is. Its like God came down and said "In fact there is a replacement for displacement! behold!" A model X has about that same power, goes faster for it, and you can put a dead body in the front where the engine isn't.
- b3kart 5y ago
  But does it go vroom vroom when you accelerate? No? Waste of time... /s
  - wumpus 5y ago
    All you need is a smartphone app for that.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Loud speakers in the interior and exhaust, like all modern cars that go vroom. Not that modern engines make any sound anymore.
      - antiterra 5y ago
        There is no speaker in my exhaust and there are three resonators to tone down its sound.
        hef19898 5y ago
        Depends on the car. You can have speakers, valves,... anything to make a modern, powerful 4 cylinder turbo engine sound like a Group B rally car. The more upmarket and sportive the car, the more likely.
        wumpus 5y ago
        Can't you just hold your cellphone up to your ear? Use the cellphone accelerometer to figure out what noise to make. I'm sure this app would make at least dozens of dollars.
dm319 5y ago
The way you use the word 'created' makes me think you are externalising the ethics of your choices.
- antiterra 5y ago
  I am aware of the ethics of my choices, and they are not always good, particularly eating meat. Where I live, fossil fuels still make most of the electricity anyway, and while electric vehicles allow for taking advantage of a cleaner grid, we’re not there yet. Further, when saying ‘created,’ I am talking more about a market effect on a larger section of the population.
markvdb 5y ago
Do you know what made you do this? Can you explain? I would honestly like to understand.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I blame Edward Bernays.
- antiterra 5y ago
  Seating and cargo capacity, smaller than the minivan it replaces, comfortable ride if I want it, reassuringly fast acceleration onto the uncontrolled highway intersection by my home, fun, bumpers align with all the trucks and other SUVs, solid quality AWD (unlike the Volvo hybrid.) Might be worth noting there are heavier and less efficient cars, it’s not at the top of the list for either of those things. What’s difficult to understand?
  - markvdb 5y ago
    I come in from a rather different angle. I currently own a 2007 diesel station wagon, mostly by accident. It's a hand-me-down from my parents. Fuel consumption is 4.25l/100km (~55 mpg). It's plenty comfortable to me. It has the safety features that matter (ABS, airbags and whatnot). I've never ended up in an unsafe situation due to a lack of acceleration either. It's got plenty of cargo capacity on its own. In the unlikely event I need more, I can easily hook up a trailer. Which is exactly what I plan to do on the way to the holiday house this summer. Plenty of rather rough unpaved roads there, and yet hardly an SUV to be seen. All of this fits well with a personal strategy: - frugal. I try not to spend more than the median unskilled labourer reasonably can. - political. I try to make sure as little as possible money goes to Russian (48%), Saudi (~20%) or other middle eastern (~5%) oil firms of vey questionable ethical reputation. Just thinking of Mohammed Bin Salman is stomach turning enough for me to lower my speed to the fuel efficiency optimum. - ecological. Used car, fairly clean burning engine, using it as little as possible, driving it at optimal speed ~90km/h (~56mph) . My significant other is on board with this. The tradeoff was between owning a car or not. She absolutely wants one. I absolutely want what we own to be frugal, aligned with our political choices and ecological. I can really appreciate the engineering that went into a massive engine, very much so. Same for a friend's custom leather car upholstery rework. True work of art. An acquaintance of a friend's converted an old Volvo 240 to run on wood (!) [0]. To me, the comfort and fun you described sound bland, hollow, empty even in comparison. Why go with the boring highly polluting v8 when you can get something similarly boring with more positive externalities instead?
hellotomyrars 5y ago
Okay but... why? I own two vehicles, One is a cheap base model Kia Soul that I got used for very little. I also own an F-350 Dually Super Duty King Ranch edition. I used to use the truck to tow my house (42 foot fifth-wheel). It's somewhere in the 500HP range, but I needed it for what I was doing at the time. Got about 8 MPG highway pulling the fifth-wheel. Nowadays I use the cheap Kia for almost everything, because I don't need 500 ponies under the hood and parking that monster sucks as well. I get that a cheap Kia maybe isn't a fun car for most people, especially when they can afford a lot more car, but you don't need to get a giant SUV just to spend a lot of money on a nice/fancy car. Do you have literally any specific need for that vehicle other than the fear you won't be able to get one later? I just don't get it. It isn't like electric is lacking in power either.

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

That's quite a badly written headline and article - are they saying they won't sell new gas cars by 2026 (but still resell 2nd hand ones) or they won't create new gas models by 2026 - I guess the latter.

scoot 5y ago
Seems pretty clear - no new gas/petrol/diesel models by 2016; no hybrid or full electric in the range by 2028. Hybrids mostly exist to tick a regulatory box, so a fully electric-only range will be a long time coming without further government intervention.
instance 5y ago
I've checked the original source [0]: You've guessed right. They specifically said they won't be introducing/creating new gas models. Nowhere do they say that they won't sell old inventory. [0] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/audi-verbrenner-elektromobilitaet-1.5325505?reduced=true https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/audi-verbrenner-elekt...
cout 5y ago
It looks like the article has been updated. "Editor‘s note: A previous version of this article stated Audi would stop making gas cars by 2026. Instead, Audi will no longer bring new gas cars to market by 2026. This has been corrected."

dm319 5y ago

I picked up through my work an Audi E-tron 50. It was a second car, so I wasn't riding everything on it. What surprised me is that I am going to resist ever buying a car with an ICE now. People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change. The smooth constant acceleration, quiet ride, not needing to visit petrol stations, long service intervals and lack of particles coming out the back has converted me. If I was running a car company, I would not be throwing any R+D at the ICE range. EDIT: Just to add that the reviews didn't really represent to me the car that I got. They largely compared it to performance Teslas, and noted that it was slower, shorter-ranged and less efficient than Teslas. But I think a lot of reviewers miss the point. A fast Tesla (LR models, let alone performance) is so fast it beats my motorbike, which is normally faster than most performance ICE cars. I think the general public haven't quite grokked that yet, so have no idea just how fast 300hp with torque available all the time actually is.

Grim-444 5y ago
My personal counter arguments: "People complain about range, but the issue is really availability of fast charging points, which will change" - so .. you're admitting it's not in the state it needs to be, and you're hoping that changes in the future? I'm moments away from heading out on a backcountry trip in the desert east of the cascades - how long would you estimate it would take for fast charging points to exist even within even a hundred miles of where I'm about to go? I'm also able to just strap on extra gallons of fuel if I want to extend my range even further. "The smooth constant acceleration" - Not really sure how this is a benefit at all, unless you're comparing sports cars. "quiet ride" - I've never once in my life wished that the interior of my vehicle was quieter, this is such a superficial benefit to consider. "not needing to visit petrol stations" - I guess this is a benefit, of course it's offset by needing charging infrastructure both in your house and wherever you go, neither of which exist for me, but what does exist are millions of gas stations which are incredibly convenient to get to and spend 5 minutes at in order to be able to drive hundreds of more miles. There will be a gas station in the tiny towns on my route today, there won't be charging stations, let alone fast charging stations. "long service intervals" - There's some benefit here, although you still have regular maintenance that still has to be done, it doesn't eliminate it. Even still, it's a trivial amount of time to do basic maintenance on my vehicle. "lack of particles coming out the back" - As long as the electricity you power it with didn't come from a dirty source, like most are, sure. In general, if all you use your vehicle for are little trips around the area of a major city, then yeah you can make it work. If you actually use your vehicle as a vehicle, it still doesn't remotely make sense.

11thEarlOfMar 5y ago

>Audi would stop introducing new fossil fuel burning cars by 2026. Additionally, their lineup will only consist of “e-” branded cars by 2028. If I read this correctly, they will not introduce new product lines starting 2026, and, stop selling ICE cars entirely in 2028. Is that the correct reading? If so, it seems monumental(?) that a company like Audi would endeavor to transform their company from ICE (97% in 2020) to 100% BEV (3% in 2020) [0] over 8 years. The manufacturing supply chain and employee composition (including sub-tier suppliers) will endure a period of major change. [0] https://insideevs.com/news/465756/2020-audi-etron-electric-car-sales/ https://insideevs.com/news/465756/2020-audi-etron-electric-c...

codeulike 5y ago
Unless "e-branded" means hybrids? Hard to tell. edit: OK sounds like "e-branded" might also include things like the "Audi A3 TFSI e" which is a PHEV
- tialaramex 5y ago
  So, for example today you can buy an Audi A3 TFSI e. That's a petrol engined car, but it's a PHEV, if you plug it in to the wall in my country in about six hours (so overnight or while at the office) you've got 40 miles manufacturers range on battery. In many countries that are banning new sales of pure ICE cars over the next decade or so, PHEVs remain legal. So yes I can see these variants still existing in Audi's range in 2030, while the plain Petrol variants are now end-of-line. Meanwhile Audi has other models which are actually BEVs with a much larger range (300+ miles between charges) of course, and those would definitely continue to be refined under this policy.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
The thing is, Audi is just one brand that is part of the VW conglomerate. Its their luxury brand, just below their Porsche brand. They could easily turn Audi into their Tesla-competing luxury brand and have it pure EV, while still having VW (and Skoda in Europe) pump out ICE vehicles like crazy, and impact nothing in terms of overall CO2 emissions.

amelius 5y ago

Can Tesla be removed from the headline?

dang 5y ago
Yes. It was there only as a bit of site marketing and we always take those out.

abcd_f 5y ago

In related news - if you ever wanted the S series, now is the time to pick one up. I went it to look at their e-trons and tfsi-e (hybrids), because that’s what responsible adults do nowadays, and ended up leaving with an S6, because it was just a complete no-brainer of a choice. Hybrids are basically a joke, something just to make you feel good about yourself. Slow, boring behemoths. Audi’s electrics are lagging behind Tesla by several years. In the absence of Tesla it could’ve been an option if you were after an e-car, but as it stands now it’s like buying an upscale SVGA card instead of a GPU. And then you look at what Audi does the best and realize that a fully loaded S6 is cheaper than Tesla AND it comes with a round steering wheel! Bah, I’ll take two.

reducesuffering 5y ago
Imagine in 2021 thinking HN would be positively receptive to someone boasting about choosing a $75k S6 ICE, polluting over the next 20 years at 22mpg, over an EV. Money is not an issue and yet there's no mention of climate change, only that it was a "no-brainer."
- abcd_f 5y ago
  It’s 7.5 l/100km, which is 32 mpg if my math is correct.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    Average city and highway usage is estimated to be 22mpg.[0] [0]https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42615 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=42615
- yumraj 5y ago
  60% of US electricity still comes from Coal and Natural Gas [0], which are polluting. So, an EV is nothing more than an increase in mileage - it's not like it's suddenly Zero polluting, unless of course you're charging from at-home Solar. Now of course I don't know the efficiency, or amount of pollutants (CO2 and other) released compare between gas engines and coal/natural gas power plants, so the actual increase in mileage and environmental benefit might be different, but it is certainly not 100%. Has anyone come across any study that compares the two? Public transport, remote working and so on have a much much larger impact IMHO. [0] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-...

chris_va 5y ago

(disclaimer: I work in a climate&energy group) I personally wish they would just continue selling gas cars, but with a lifetime fuel emissions offset built into the price. That would rapidly improve the maturity of carbon offset markets, which is needed for decarbonization across many industries (not just automotive) and has been slow going. Random math: 200e3miles/(30miles/gallon)*8.89kg/gallon*$100/(1000kg) ~= $6000

Gibbon1 5y ago
That's my opinion too. Excise taxes on gas cars are better than carbon taxes applied to gasoline and diesel. Because what you want is people to stop buying gas cars, not revenue. Bonus can use the excise tax revenue to fund buyback and down payment assistance programs. Helping someone replace their older gas car with a new(er) electric also results on a lot less political blow back than raising the gas tax.
- ganoushoreilly 5y ago
  There's also dealing with the issue of federal and state losses from taxes from fuel, these will need to be offset. Between state and federal, it's anywhere from .40c or more per gallon in taxes now lost. That's money put towards roads and maintenance (somewhere). I imagine we're going to end up seeing a mileage use tax on EV's as well.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    One of my side thoughts is ordinary people drive a lot more than they want to. The reason being is we don't ding businesses and housing developers directly for the commuter traffic they generate. Instead we focus on cars MPG and not on workplaces forcing their workers into 50-100 mile commutes. You end up with the bosses live five minutes away from work (convenient). And their employees live 30-50 miles away. And the boss never sees that cost on the corporate balance sheet.
elif 5y ago
Why would it make sense for audi to continue selling gas cars due to a surcharge? Presumably it is already not economically viable already

underseacables 5y ago

Does it make sense to buy a traditional vehicle these days? It seems the trend is moving towards hybrids and all electric. We get a lot of snow where I live, I mean a lot of snow, and I’ve always wanted a jeep, or a nice big SUV. But I’m afraid of spending money on a combustion engine, when we may be heading in a completely different direction and I may be stuck with a clunker essentially.

catillac 5y ago
Yeah, we moved to the country following the COVID Tech Exodus from cities and there are no charging stations reasonably conveniently located. We are at end of life for our ICE car and are looking at options to purchase in the next 12 months. We may look at a hybrid, but will likely get a traditional vehicle. That calculus will likely change in a decade. Your question is really assuming everyone has the money for the practical EV vehicle they need and that they live in or near enough locations for charging. That is only the case for a small but growing portion of society.
- adflux 5y ago
  How about people without dedicated charging spaces, let alone parking spaces? I would want an electric car, but I can't charge it where I park it. So I wont buy one.
- underseacables 5y ago
  Oh gosh you hit the nail on the head. We have very few charging stations in my area. I’ve seen a few Ev’s coming that are on he lower end, but I’m feeling resigned to an ICE car, maybe something used, as a stop gap until I can save up for a hybrid.
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
My prediction is that used ICE cars will appreciate in value as less ICE models get sold.
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badcede 5y ago

That's what they all say.