6 ms·

Wasn't that the point of those thermostats in the first place? To help utilities manage demand? I'd have thought they'd get a lot more than just "a sweepstakes

Wasn't that the point of those thermostats in the first place? To help utilities manage demand? I'd have thought they'd get a lot more than just "a sweepstakes entry" for installing a utility controlled theromstat though. Also, is 78°F really that hot? I live in Canada, but summers can get really hot. Yet I don't even turn on AC below 80° though maybe humidity is way higher there. Otherwise nothing seems particularly unreasonable here: a utility used a tool (designed to let it better manage peak demand) to do exactly that while only raising the temperatures pretty mildly. I wouldn't personally opt in into a remote controlled thermostat but if I willingly installed it or bought a house that already had it, I wouldn't be surprised when it does exactly what it is supposed to do

readthenotes1 5y ago
It is really humid in Houston so 78F without some form of cooling is pretty uncomfortable. Plus, I bet they're used to keeping it at 70...
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Humidity is definitely a huge factor. A/C acts as a dehumidifier. Another factor is the amount of IR being emitted by interior surfaces. If it's really hot outside (and the building isn't insulated to the latest top-tier building standards), the ceiling and walls can be radiating enough IR heat that a 78F air temperature feels quite uncomfortable.
  - syockit 5y ago
    I don't know much about how A/C works, whether the dehumidifier mechanism can be decoupled from the cooling mechanism. If it can't, then shouldn't the thermostat be coupled to a hygrostat so that that A/C runs when it is humid enough despite being cool in terms of temperature? On the other hand, today I learned that there's something called heat index and humidex.
    - pdonis 5y ago
      > I don't know much about how A/C works, whether the dehumidifier mechanism can be decoupled from the cooling mechanism. It can't. When you cool air down to 50 degrees F (10 degrees C) or so (which is a typical outlet air temperature for a home A/C unit), it simply can't hold much water vapor, and the excess condenses out. That effectively dehumidifies the air--it lowers the dew point to whatever the outlet air temperature is. > shouldn't the thermostat be coupled to a hygrostat so that that A/C runs when it is humid enough despite being cool in terms of temperature? In principle it probably should, but in practice there is a close enough correlation between the two that it's not considered necessary. If energy savings is the goal, the real fix would be to use variable compressors in home A/C systems: that way, instead of the A/C running full on for a while, lowering the temperature (and dehumidifying), then shutting completely off for a while (so humidity can build up again), the A/C could just be running all the time, and changing the thermostat setting would simply change how much cooling and dehumidifying the A/C was doing--what the actual outlet air temperature/dewpoint was. "Full on" would still be, say, 50 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, but most of the time you wouldn't need that; "energy saving mode" could be, say, 68 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, which would still be reasonable in terms of comfort but would use a lot less energy, so it could be kept on continuously. (There are already systems like this in cars.)
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > "Full on" would still be, say, 50 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, but most of the time you wouldn't need that; "energy saving mode" could be, say, 68 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint If you do that, then the outlet air will have twice as much water. If you started with hot, humid air, that means you're still going to have quite a bit of humidity even as you drop the temperature through the 70s. So you're going to need to cool the air more to reach the same level of comfort. Are you sure the savings outweigh the costs?
        pdonis 5y ago
        > If you do that, then the outlet air will have twice as much water. As long as that dewpoint is reasonably comfortable, that's not necessarily an issue. > If you started with hot, humid air, that means you're still going to have quite a bit of humidity even as you drop the temperature through the 70s. So you're going to need to cool the air more to reach the same level of comfort. You can't cool the air further without also further dehumidifying it. If you cool the air to, say, 60 F, the dewpoint can't be any higher than 60 F. There's no way to cool the air to 60 F but have a dewpoint of 68 F. That's physically impossible. > Are you sure the savings outweigh the costs? There is no such tradeoff: lower air temperature and more dehumidification always go together; they have to, as explained above. The savings comes from running continuously at a lower level of both cooling and dehumidification, one that is just sufficient to maintain comfort, instead of switching between full on (which cools more than needed to maintain comfort--it has to, to compensate for the period when the system is going to be off again) and full off (which doesn't cool or dehumidify at all, so the air warms up and gets more humid again until it reaches the point where the system has to switch back to full on). The switching on and off is less efficient for a given level of comfort.
- sparrish 5y ago
  The screenshot of the alert said it was adjusted up 4 degrees. Not much.
trophycase 5y ago
For the life of me I can't understand how people like it so cold. I have to imagine a lot of it comes down to overweight/obesity but a lot of places I go are colder in the summer than they are in the winter.
lfowles 5y ago
78 at my thermostat can easily mean 85+ on the upper floor. (No it's not a very efficient house)
shakna 5y ago
78F, at 80% humidity is above the reccommended safe range for young kids. It's a SIDS risk, and those in the article have a toddler. The concern is more one of safety than one of comfort.
- thrdbndndn 5y ago
  I highly doubt an air-conditioned space would be above 80% RH.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    It will if the air conditioning isn't running because someone remotely turned up the thermostat, and it's humid outside. Summer relative humidity in the Houston area routinely gets up around 90%.
    - thrdbndndn 5y ago
      I live in Houston RN. The thermostat is set to 78 not 86 or something. It definitely would run.
      - pdonis 5y ago
        > The thermostat is set to 78 not 86 or something. Evidently you are not enrolled in the "smart thermostat" program described in the article, which allows the utility company to remotely raise your thermostat setting regardless of what you set it to. They apparently did that without any regard to the impact it would have on comfort and health.
        thrdbndndn 5y ago
        I'm talking about the article, not my home. It says "the house had already gotten to 78 degrees". Aagin, the point is the AC is definitely running if the room is only 78F in Houston. Also I think people really overestimate the humidity level indoor. Even if you leave your AC off for 2-3 days, it will not reach 90% RH unless you leave all your windows and doors wide open.
happytoexplain 5y ago
I start to sweat, become uncomfortable, and lose focus around 72. I have a hard time doing mental work or relaxing. By 75, all I'm good for is physical labor. I'm not overweight, either. I guess it's genetics.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  you could perhaps benefit from adding a fan or a single room AC for extra cooling targetted where tou need it.

readthenotes1 5y ago

It is really humid in Houston so 78F without some form of cooling is pretty uncomfortable. Plus, I bet they're used to keeping it at 70...

nitrogen 5y ago
Humidity is definitely a huge factor. A/C acts as a dehumidifier. Another factor is the amount of IR being emitted by interior surfaces. If it's really hot outside (and the building isn't insulated to the latest top-tier building standards), the ceiling and walls can be radiating enough IR heat that a 78F air temperature feels quite uncomfortable.
- syockit 5y ago
  I don't know much about how A/C works, whether the dehumidifier mechanism can be decoupled from the cooling mechanism. If it can't, then shouldn't the thermostat be coupled to a hygrostat so that that A/C runs when it is humid enough despite being cool in terms of temperature? On the other hand, today I learned that there's something called heat index and humidex.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > I don't know much about how A/C works, whether the dehumidifier mechanism can be decoupled from the cooling mechanism. It can't. When you cool air down to 50 degrees F (10 degrees C) or so (which is a typical outlet air temperature for a home A/C unit), it simply can't hold much water vapor, and the excess condenses out. That effectively dehumidifies the air--it lowers the dew point to whatever the outlet air temperature is. > shouldn't the thermostat be coupled to a hygrostat so that that A/C runs when it is humid enough despite being cool in terms of temperature? In principle it probably should, but in practice there is a close enough correlation between the two that it's not considered necessary. If energy savings is the goal, the real fix would be to use variable compressors in home A/C systems: that way, instead of the A/C running full on for a while, lowering the temperature (and dehumidifying), then shutting completely off for a while (so humidity can build up again), the A/C could just be running all the time, and changing the thermostat setting would simply change how much cooling and dehumidifying the A/C was doing--what the actual outlet air temperature/dewpoint was. "Full on" would still be, say, 50 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, but most of the time you wouldn't need that; "energy saving mode" could be, say, 68 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, which would still be reasonable in terms of comfort but would use a lot less energy, so it could be kept on continuously. (There are already systems like this in cars.)
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > "Full on" would still be, say, 50 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint, but most of the time you wouldn't need that; "energy saving mode" could be, say, 68 degrees F outlet air/dewpoint If you do that, then the outlet air will have twice as much water. If you started with hot, humid air, that means you're still going to have quite a bit of humidity even as you drop the temperature through the 70s. So you're going to need to cool the air more to reach the same level of comfort. Are you sure the savings outweigh the costs?
      - pdonis 5y ago
        > If you do that, then the outlet air will have twice as much water. As long as that dewpoint is reasonably comfortable, that's not necessarily an issue. > If you started with hot, humid air, that means you're still going to have quite a bit of humidity even as you drop the temperature through the 70s. So you're going to need to cool the air more to reach the same level of comfort. You can't cool the air further without also further dehumidifying it. If you cool the air to, say, 60 F, the dewpoint can't be any higher than 60 F. There's no way to cool the air to 60 F but have a dewpoint of 68 F. That's physically impossible. > Are you sure the savings outweigh the costs? There is no such tradeoff: lower air temperature and more dehumidification always go together; they have to, as explained above. The savings comes from running continuously at a lower level of both cooling and dehumidification, one that is just sufficient to maintain comfort, instead of switching between full on (which cools more than needed to maintain comfort--it has to, to compensate for the period when the system is going to be off again) and full off (which doesn't cool or dehumidify at all, so the air warms up and gets more humid again until it reaches the point where the system has to switch back to full on). The switching on and off is less efficient for a given level of comfort.
sparrish 5y ago
The screenshot of the alert said it was adjusted up 4 degrees. Not much.

trophycase 5y ago

For the life of me I can't understand how people like it so cold. I have to imagine a lot of it comes down to overweight/obesity but a lot of places I go are colder in the summer than they are in the winter.

lfowles 5y ago

78 at my thermostat can easily mean 85+ on the upper floor. (No it's not a very efficient house)

shakna 5y ago

78F, at 80% humidity is above the reccommended safe range for young kids. It's a SIDS risk, and those in the article have a toddler. The concern is more one of safety than one of comfort.

thrdbndndn 5y ago
I highly doubt an air-conditioned space would be above 80% RH.
- pdonis 5y ago
  It will if the air conditioning isn't running because someone remotely turned up the thermostat, and it's humid outside. Summer relative humidity in the Houston area routinely gets up around 90%.
  - thrdbndndn 5y ago
    I live in Houston RN. The thermostat is set to 78 not 86 or something. It definitely would run.
    - pdonis 5y ago
      > The thermostat is set to 78 not 86 or something. Evidently you are not enrolled in the "smart thermostat" program described in the article, which allows the utility company to remotely raise your thermostat setting regardless of what you set it to. They apparently did that without any regard to the impact it would have on comfort and health.
      - thrdbndndn 5y ago
        I'm talking about the article, not my home. It says "the house had already gotten to 78 degrees". Aagin, the point is the AC is definitely running if the room is only 78F in Houston. Also I think people really overestimate the humidity level indoor. Even if you leave your AC off for 2-3 days, it will not reach 90% RH unless you leave all your windows and doors wide open.

happytoexplain 5y ago

I start to sweat, become uncomfortable, and lose focus around 72. I have a hard time doing mental work or relaxing. By 75, all I'm good for is physical labor. I'm not overweight, either. I guess it's genetics.

alisonkisk 5y ago
you could perhaps benefit from adding a fan or a single room AC for extra cooling targetted where tou need it.