7 ms·

A small bit of feedback here. I tried TripleByte a couple of years ago and the experience was really polished. I passed the interview and got great detailed fee

by tdeck 5y ago

A small bit of feedback here. I tried TripleByte a couple of years ago and the experience was really polished. I passed the interview and got great detailed feedback which I really appreciated. However, I dropped out completely because TripleByte wouldn't let me see companies without entering in a desired comp number. My recruiter at triplebyte said I could just put in "$1 or $1,000,000" to get past it, but that just feels like the same kind of corporate HR bullshit that people have complained about for years. Just Google "recruiter won't proceed without desired salary" and you'll understand how many folks dislike that question. The experience made me feel that Triplebyte wasn't interested in putting me in control of the process at all if they have such a user hostile requirement and require me to work around it by putting in fake numbers. I understand that many people will have no problem providing this info, but I prefer to see what companies offer me because it tells me how they value me and the position they're hiring for.

rachofsunshine 5y ago
You're totally right. If we'd been thinking in this mode when that particular requirement was built, it wouldn't have been. It isn't required today (and IIRC hasn't been for a while now).
pmoriarty 5y ago
I never, ever, ever give anyone a number until the salary negotiation stage of the interview (ie. after I've been given a job offer), and even then I only give the company a number as a counter to their offer. I always do this negotiation myself, and never let anyone else negotiate for me. Almost all recruiters have been fine with that, but a couple haven't. To such people I wish a good day and go my own way. There are plenty of other recruiters in the sea.
- usaar333 5y ago
  A particular problem with doing that is discussed in the post; you risk everyone's time being wasted if the company will never be able to meet your target.
  - nucleardog 5y ago
    Yep. I won't get to the offer stage without us having discussed money. I don't want to waste either of our time only to find out someone's only willing to pay 70% of my bottom line.
  - RussianCow 5y ago
    For a big enough company, you can collect a few data points via Glassdoor[0], levels.fyi, etc to make sure that they pay in the range you're looking for before you even begin the interview process. For smaller companies, you're absolutely right, although I personally tend to give a very broad range[0] at the beginning of the process, and only narrow that down at the offer stage. That's worked well for me in the past. The nice thing about the explosion of remote work due to COVID is that engineering salaries are beginning to normalize across the US, and there is now a lot more salary data available online, so it's easier than ever to see what you're "worth" on the market on average. This at least gives you an anchor when having these conversations, so you're not going in blind, and gives you a lot more leverage if they low-ball you. [0]: Yes, I'm aware of the drawbacks of self-reported data, but it's still broadly useful in aggregate. [1]: I'm making up numbers, but something like $120k - $200k, with the lower number being the minimum you'd realistically take. Usually recruiters are honest up front if they can't even afford your absolute minimum, but it still leaves you with a lot of negotiation room once the offer comes in.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "I'm making up numbers, but something like $120k - $200k, with the lower number being the minimum you'd realistically take. Usually recruiters are honest up front if they can't even afford your absolute minimum, but it still leaves you with a lot of negotiation room once the offer comes in." Why even give an upper limit? It's not like you'd refuse $400k if it was offered to you, would you? Most companies will naturally start negotiation near the lower end of your range, even if they would have started way higher had you let them make the offer first. I really don't see an upside to this strategy.
      - RussianCow 5y ago
- slownews45 5y ago
  On hiring side we screen folks out pretty quickly who can't discuss money. I used to be much more relaxed about this, but if you get burned doing a few rounds of interviews and it was a waste you wise up pretty quickly - teams do not like time wasted. I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons. We're happy to talk through the different positions, levels, progressions and comp ranges for them all. But you have to have a clue about what type of comp would work for you (early on in initial call or two) or it's just not worth continuing forward.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    Sounds like we wouldn't be compatible. You say "I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons." The same goes in my experience for companies which insist on talking salary before the job offer. It's a red flag. "you have to have a clue about what type of comp would work for you (early on in initial call or two) or it's just not worth continuing forward" Of course I have a clue, but I'm not going to put myself at a disadvantage in the negotiation by revealing it before I've been given a firm job offer and heard a number from the company first. Also, in my experience recruiters are the ones who push hardest to hear salary expectations up front. They know it'll give them a leg up in negotiations, and some of them are even paid specifically to get that number (as one recruiter was brazen enough to reveal to me).
  - ishiz 5y ago
    Why can't you simply ask the candidate "We offer $min to $max for this position, is that acceptable?" That lets you and the candidate know whether proceeding further is a good use of time.
    - cutemonster 5y ago
      Maybe because there's a chance the job applicant will suggest < $min
  - duxup 5y ago
    Why can't you just tell them a range you're offering?
- andrew_ 5y ago
  conversely, I discuss compensation immediately. In the segment of the market I'm in, I've wasted too much time going through interview processes only to get to the end and find out they're incapable of even matching my current comp. I've found being candid more successful.
  - sgerenser 5y ago
    Yeah I think it’s worth giving at least a range if you suspect the company can’t even meet the minimum. Like “at this point in my career I’m targeting positions that pay from $150-$200k.” If they balk and basically say the aren’t authorized to offer over $100k, you don’t have to waste your time. This probably makes more sense with smaller companies where they tend to have more limited budgets.
- jabits 5y ago
  Seems to me that you would waste a lot of your personal time this way. They know enough about me before I even step in the door and I want some idea of whether the money can work. I ask for more than might be typical and I haven’t time to waste on companies that just want to show me what a great place they are to be at.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  In my country it's common for companies to have public salary range, at least for IT positions - see https://justjoin.it/ https://justjoin.it/ for example board, Linkedin recruiters do the same thing. It seems to be terrible waste of time going through interview process to learn that they won't even come close to what you want. I would not do that to myself.
- jiveturkey 5y ago
  that used to be true universally. now only true for entry level at big companies. at senior levels especially, you should know what you want. comp bands are informed by huge data troves now and any edge you may have gotten before is gone due to the fixed and tight bands. just state your requirements and insist on “turnabout is fair play” ie they need to tell you the band. do this during the prescreen and save everyone’s time. if you kill it in the interview you still easily can negotiate to top of band.
nostrademons 5y ago
Semi-serious question, asking for an indeterminate person: If your desired comp number actually is $1M/year, will that just flag you as a joke to Triplebyte companies? With post-pandemic stock price increases a lot of engineers at FAANGs are making more than that now.
- baumy 5y ago
  > If your desired comp number actually is $1M/year, will that just flag you as a joke to Triplebyte companies? With post-pandemic stock price increases a lot of engineers at FAANGs are making more than that now. For any reasonable definition of "a lot", no they absolutely are not. A lot of people with 2+ years of experience who've either been promoted once and received a strong annual review, or switched jobs as a mid-level industry hire are making in the 200s and 300s, a few pushing into the 400s. Much more than that and you're looking at the top 1% (or less) of engineers at the top companies. Not a lot. Source: was a mid level engineer at a FAANG until I left late last year, knew seniors and principals and their comp. Nobody was making $1M/year.
  - sneak 5y ago
    > Nobody was making $1M/year. Nobody that makes 2x what their coworkers do at the same job/level casually discloses their comp at the water cooler.
    - haliskerbas 5y ago
      I can guarantee people at my company and level make 3-4x more than me. Push into the next level and you have quite a few $1M+ TC
      - erosenbe0 5y ago
        If "quite a few" non-directors make more than average American cardiologists either: A) your company is engaged in disturbing monopolism; B) your company is engaged in disturbing labor exploitation and arbitrage; or C) your company is engaged in disturbing environmental destruction. Would love to be proven wrong. Am I? Edit: option D) is that American cardiologists are not as exclusive and skilled a labor force as I would prefer to believe ;)
desireco42 5y ago
I get what you are saying, but on the contrary, I don't want to go through interview process as a candidate just to be lowballed in the end. If the range is not there, and often it is not, I am fairly good and not everyone understand how much this costs, I just don't want to waste anyone time. I don't think this part is off. Why I never went to Triplebyte and will not go, I think doing tests is dumb and don't wanna do it. Like original commenter said, you can't change model that quickly.
ThePadawan 5y ago
> Just Google "recruiter won't proceed without desired salary" and you'll understand how many folks dislike that question. It's incredible how mileages vary. I recently had to strike companies off my list which demanded to know my last salary. I offered them my salary expectations, but they would absolutely not accept that, and preferred to take the fact that I would not tell them the exact salary at my last position as a reason to decline to immediately stop the interview (with half an hour left in the call). This wasn't a one-off either, I would say about 5% of companies (biased sample) try and get away with shit like this. (This was German-speaking Europe)
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > (This was German-speaking Europe) In which case the correct answer is "Das geht Sie überhaupt nichts an."

by tdeck 5y ago

rachofsunshine 5y ago

You're totally right. If we'd been thinking in this mode when that particular requirement was built, it wouldn't have been. It isn't required today (and IIRC hasn't been for a while now).

pmoriarty 5y ago

I never, ever, ever give anyone a number until the salary negotiation stage of the interview (ie. after I've been given a job offer), and even then I only give the company a number as a counter to their offer. I always do this negotiation myself, and never let anyone else negotiate for me. Almost all recruiters have been fine with that, but a couple haven't. To such people I wish a good day and go my own way. There are plenty of other recruiters in the sea.

usaar333 5y ago
A particular problem with doing that is discussed in the post; you risk everyone's time being wasted if the company will never be able to meet your target.
- nucleardog 5y ago
  Yep. I won't get to the offer stage without us having discussed money. I don't want to waste either of our time only to find out someone's only willing to pay 70% of my bottom line.
- RussianCow 5y ago
  For a big enough company, you can collect a few data points via Glassdoor[0], levels.fyi, etc to make sure that they pay in the range you're looking for before you even begin the interview process. For smaller companies, you're absolutely right, although I personally tend to give a very broad range[0] at the beginning of the process, and only narrow that down at the offer stage. That's worked well for me in the past. The nice thing about the explosion of remote work due to COVID is that engineering salaries are beginning to normalize across the US, and there is now a lot more salary data available online, so it's easier than ever to see what you're "worth" on the market on average. This at least gives you an anchor when having these conversations, so you're not going in blind, and gives you a lot more leverage if they low-ball you. [0]: Yes, I'm aware of the drawbacks of self-reported data, but it's still broadly useful in aggregate. [1]: I'm making up numbers, but something like $120k - $200k, with the lower number being the minimum you'd realistically take. Usually recruiters are honest up front if they can't even afford your absolute minimum, but it still leaves you with a lot of negotiation room once the offer comes in.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "I'm making up numbers, but something like $120k - $200k, with the lower number being the minimum you'd realistically take. Usually recruiters are honest up front if they can't even afford your absolute minimum, but it still leaves you with a lot of negotiation room once the offer comes in." Why even give an upper limit? It's not like you'd refuse $400k if it was offered to you, would you? Most companies will naturally start negotiation near the lower end of your range, even if they would have started way higher had you let them make the offer first. I really don't see an upside to this strategy.
    - RussianCow 5y ago
slownews45 5y ago
On hiring side we screen folks out pretty quickly who can't discuss money. I used to be much more relaxed about this, but if you get burned doing a few rounds of interviews and it was a waste you wise up pretty quickly - teams do not like time wasted. I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons. We're happy to talk through the different positions, levels, progressions and comp ranges for them all. But you have to have a clue about what type of comp would work for you (early on in initial call or two) or it's just not worth continuing forward.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  Sounds like we wouldn't be compatible. You say "I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons." The same goes in my experience for companies which insist on talking salary before the job offer. It's a red flag. "you have to have a clue about what type of comp would work for you (early on in initial call or two) or it's just not worth continuing forward" Of course I have a clue, but I'm not going to put myself at a disadvantage in the negotiation by revealing it before I've been given a firm job offer and heard a number from the company first. Also, in my experience recruiters are the ones who push hardest to hear salary expectations up front. They know it'll give them a leg up in negotiations, and some of them are even paid specifically to get that number (as one recruiter was brazen enough to reveal to me).
- ishiz 5y ago
  Why can't you simply ask the candidate "We offer $min to $max for this position, is that acceptable?" That lets you and the candidate know whether proceeding further is a good use of time.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    Maybe because there's a chance the job applicant will suggest < $min
- duxup 5y ago
  Why can't you just tell them a range you're offering?
andrew_ 5y ago
conversely, I discuss compensation immediately. In the segment of the market I'm in, I've wasted too much time going through interview processes only to get to the end and find out they're incapable of even matching my current comp. I've found being candid more successful.
- sgerenser 5y ago
  Yeah I think it’s worth giving at least a range if you suspect the company can’t even meet the minimum. Like “at this point in my career I’m targeting positions that pay from $150-$200k.” If they balk and basically say the aren’t authorized to offer over $100k, you don’t have to waste your time. This probably makes more sense with smaller companies where they tend to have more limited budgets.
jabits 5y ago
Seems to me that you would waste a lot of your personal time this way. They know enough about me before I even step in the door and I want some idea of whether the money can work. I ask for more than might be typical and I haven’t time to waste on companies that just want to show me what a great place they are to be at.
KptMarchewa 5y ago
In my country it's common for companies to have public salary range, at least for IT positions - see https://justjoin.it/ https://justjoin.it/ for example board, Linkedin recruiters do the same thing. It seems to be terrible waste of time going through interview process to learn that they won't even come close to what you want. I would not do that to myself.
jiveturkey 5y ago
that used to be true universally. now only true for entry level at big companies. at senior levels especially, you should know what you want. comp bands are informed by huge data troves now and any edge you may have gotten before is gone due to the fixed and tight bands. just state your requirements and insist on “turnabout is fair play” ie they need to tell you the band. do this during the prescreen and save everyone’s time. if you kill it in the interview you still easily can negotiate to top of band.

nostrademons 5y ago

Semi-serious question, asking for an indeterminate person: If your desired comp number actually is $1M/year, will that just flag you as a joke to Triplebyte companies? With post-pandemic stock price increases a lot of engineers at FAANGs are making more than that now.

baumy 5y ago
> If your desired comp number actually is $1M/year, will that just flag you as a joke to Triplebyte companies? With post-pandemic stock price increases a lot of engineers at FAANGs are making more than that now. For any reasonable definition of "a lot", no they absolutely are not. A lot of people with 2+ years of experience who've either been promoted once and received a strong annual review, or switched jobs as a mid-level industry hire are making in the 200s and 300s, a few pushing into the 400s. Much more than that and you're looking at the top 1% (or less) of engineers at the top companies. Not a lot. Source: was a mid level engineer at a FAANG until I left late last year, knew seniors and principals and their comp. Nobody was making $1M/year.
- sneak 5y ago
  > Nobody was making $1M/year. Nobody that makes 2x what their coworkers do at the same job/level casually discloses their comp at the water cooler.
  - haliskerbas 5y ago
    I can guarantee people at my company and level make 3-4x more than me. Push into the next level and you have quite a few $1M+ TC
    - erosenbe0 5y ago
      If "quite a few" non-directors make more than average American cardiologists either: A) your company is engaged in disturbing monopolism; B) your company is engaged in disturbing labor exploitation and arbitrage; or C) your company is engaged in disturbing environmental destruction. Would love to be proven wrong. Am I? Edit: option D) is that American cardiologists are not as exclusive and skilled a labor force as I would prefer to believe ;)

desireco42 5y ago

I get what you are saying, but on the contrary, I don't want to go through interview process as a candidate just to be lowballed in the end. If the range is not there, and often it is not, I am fairly good and not everyone understand how much this costs, I just don't want to waste anyone time. I don't think this part is off. Why I never went to Triplebyte and will not go, I think doing tests is dumb and don't wanna do it. Like original commenter said, you can't change model that quickly.

ThePadawan 5y ago

> Just Google "recruiter won't proceed without desired salary" and you'll understand how many folks dislike that question. It's incredible how mileages vary. I recently had to strike companies off my list which demanded to know my last salary. I offered them my salary expectations, but they would absolutely not accept that, and preferred to take the fact that I would not tell them the exact salary at my last position as a reason to decline to immediately stop the interview (with half an hour left in the call). This wasn't a one-off either, I would say about 5% of companies (biased sample) try and get away with shit like this. (This was German-speaking Europe)

CRConrad 5y ago
> (This was German-speaking Europe) In which case the correct answer is "Das geht Sie überhaupt nichts an."