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Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus headsets

146 points by shivbhatt 5y ago

philipswood 5y ago
Is it just me? I would rather just pay for stuff and be done with it rather than have my attention and sensorium sold to the highest bidder.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  But this doesn't satisfy the advertising industry's greed.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  That's a very anti-capitalist statement of you, do you even want others to get rich? Would you deny them their wealth? I am shook. /s of course
- haxiomic 5y ago
  Support the companies that offer this an encourage others to do the same - I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect
  - bogwog 5y ago
    > I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect That's why it's awesome that Valve is so heavily invested in VR to counter that. They might not have more money than Facebook, but they have more than enough to compete with them. Plus, they have the expertise in video games that Facebook doesn't. It's just a shame that Valve is by all accounts a highly dysfunctional company.
    - ascagnel_ 5y ago
      The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price -- FB is the only player right now that sells a standalone unit and that unit is one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, headset on the market with a $300 MSRP. Everyone else is far more expensive and requires a PC with a discrete GPU (or game console, in the case of the PlayStation VR), so the total cost of entry ends up being far higher. What Valve is doing with the Index is really cool, but they're still operating as if they're trying to sell to VR enthusiasts, while Facebook is cornering the market by trying to sell to the general public.
      - wlesieutre 5y ago
        Oculus Quest 2 is the most popular headset on Steam's hardware survey, and that's only counting the ones who have it hooked up to their computer https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
      - bogwog 5y ago
        > The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price I don't think that's true. The main problem right now is that VR is still (even after all these years) an unproven/experimental consumer product. It's like buying a game console in the 70s-80s compared to buying one today. Back then, video games were still largely experimental and you were more likely to get garbage than gold. Today, designers know what works/doesn't work, and consumers can be confident in their purchases. VR is not like that yet. A "VR Game" is still a vague and uncertain term, and consumers can't have confidence in it yet. There are some great VR experiences out there, but there are many many more garbage ones. I think that a company focusing on finding a good fit for VR is going to be better off long-term than one just trying to corner this early market. Example: If Valve figures out the "secret sauce" for VR games (much like Nintendo did in the early console wars), it's not going to matter how cheap Facebook's headsets are. People (including Oculus owners) will flock to Steam for the superior experiences while Facebook scrambles to make clones. With a failed "platform", Facebook will ultimately lose. If anything, Facebook's investments to flood the market with cheap headsets (possibly even subsidizing them) could end up helping Valve in the long term, since it just means more potential Steam customers, and it gives Valve the opportunity to experiment with the high-end stuff without worrying about the market completely dying in the meantime.
- paulcole 5y ago
  Personally, I don’t mind ads. I like buying things and like seeing things I don’t know about that I might want to buy.
  - dncornholio 5y ago
    This is true. But I don't like seeing the same ad over and over again. I don't like seeing ads of stuff that I've already bought and I especially don't like to watch a commercial for the thousandth time for a video I'm not sure even is worth watching. I can agree that ads are not necessarily bad.
  - croes 5y ago
    Do you like being tricked to buy things you don't need? Ever heard of Edward Bernays? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
    - paulcole 5y ago
      Yeah, I don’t mind it. Realistically I need almost nothing but yet I buy a lot of things. Probably got “tricked” a few times but don’t particularly care.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    I too like to buy things, but interrupting me to offer me things I might like is really wasteful. Allow me to submit things I want to buy and then let companies suggest things based on that.
    - paulcole 5y ago
      I don’t always know what I want to buy. Faster horses and all that…
      - tomjen3 5y ago
        True enough. I guess maybe the site could be made to let me share my current pain points?
- tempodox 5y ago
  But then it would be so pointless to require an FB account before you can use it at all. Wouldn't that be a pity.
- Agentlien 5y ago
  My first response when seeing this article was that I'm, yet again, so happy I did not get an Oculus. I'm very happy with my Vive Cosmos and it works without a Facebook account and hasn't shown me any ads so far.
  - croon 5y ago
    I get what you're saying, but honestly the Quest is in a whole other league, as a product. I had an original Vive, and understand that Cosmos has higher fidelity etc, but the Quest inside-out-tracking is good enough, and can be used with or without a PC, with or without a cable to said PC, the resolution is great, and the compression on the PC interfaces while noticable is, again, good enough. I sincerely don't miss the lighthouses and cables, and can make a new area in any part of the house, at any time. I just wish it wasn't owned by Facebook. But there's no competitor, unfortunately.
    - Agentlien 5y ago
      I understand where you're coming from and ignoring the Facebook aspect the Quest would perhaps be the product for me, though I can't say I see much of an advantage of it over my current system. Cosmos also has inside out tracking so no beacons and I honestly don't mind the cables. I never really notice them when I play. I did with the original Vive when I tried it at work, though. As for the PC, I'm an avid gamer and graphics programmer for a AAA studio. My VR is set up in my home office so I have access to a more than adequate PC, anyway. What I really do mind is a lack of graphical fidelity. Cosmos was the first option I tried which really felt good enough for me (the original Vive always felt cool but not quite there) and I know Quest has very similar resolution. But noticeable compression artifacts sound like something that would really bother me.
- nindalf 5y ago
  It’s not just you, but you are a tiny minority. You’ve expressed a sentiment that’s very popular on HN, but not among the general population. Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%. Even on HN I don’t think that number would be more than 10%.
  - serf 5y ago
    >Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%. I think that's an inaccurate assessment of 'people who don't want to see ads', given that statistics put internet wide usage of ad-blockers at around 42%.[0]. Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience. [0]: https://backlinko.com/ad-blockers-users https://backlinko.com/ad-blockers-users
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      > Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience. I vehemently refuse to pay for YouTube Premium for that exact reason. I get ads that amount to something like "You know how we just stuff ads down your eyeballs constantly? You know how it's really annoying? For just X.99 a month, we'll no longer do that!" These enrage me to the core. Now that I have NewPipe and other methods of watching YouTube without ads and artificially freezing the stream when I switch away from the app, the official app is useless.
      - recursive 5y ago
        I don't understand this. Would it be better if YouTube "Free" didn't even exist? No one's forcing anyone to use youtube. How is this different from any subscription service that has a hobbled "lite" version?
        5y ago
- terlisimo 5y ago
  Amazon recognizes this :) Kindle with ads: 120 EUR. Kindle without ads: 140 EUR.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  It's absolutely not just you. Those people would put ads under our eyelids if they could get away with it. We need to actively fight against this by somehow blocking all these ads with no exceptions. Drive their return on investment as close to zero as possible.
- jokoon 5y ago
  Most consumers are okay with it and tolerate large doses of advertising.
jsnell 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532243
chandra381 5y ago
> Facebook added that Oculus users will be able to hide individual ads or choose not to see ads from a certain advertiser. Very interesting. The Oculus is quite a good deal at 299 USD given its technical specifications. I suspected that they were selling them below cost and subsidising them through stuff like this. The issue is that, as a data-driven organisation I am certain that they would have assessed the likely impact of including ads on turning away users and made that the decision.
prepend 5y ago
> Facebook said it will use the test to explore ways to help developers earn revenue on the Oculus platform. How about by just selling games? I hate this mealy-mouthed way of deflecting that it’s not about Facebook’s revenue, but about “helping developers.”
- cj 5y ago
  Aren't Oculus games typically $20-50? The price points for games always seemed very high to me. In an ideal world they'd offer a "no ads, full price" version and a "discount with ads" version. My guess is we'll probably just be left with "full price with ads" as the only option.
  - nuclearcookie 5y ago
    What would you consider a fair price for a game? Are you talking about games in general or just games on Oculus?
    - rychco 5y ago
      I’m definitely a minority in this regard, but I completely support increasing the price of games across the board. Development is more expensive & involves more people now. The cost of games has been $60 for what, 15 years? One additional problem is that everybody wants to cash in on subscriptions and micro transactions for continuous money, even when you’ve already paid “full” price.
      - CivBase 5y ago
        > The cost of games has been $60 for what, 15 years? Not really. $60 is an introductory price, but most games at that price launch with at least one $80+ special edition and are supplemented with $40+ of post-launch content with much higher margins than the original game. And that's before considering some of the more contentious monetization practices like micro-transactions and "loot boxes". In many cases devs and publishers slash the initial price of a game shortly after launch (usually a year or two) to increase player counts, because more players generally means more sales of post-launch content. And that's something else nobody ever seems to bring up when discussing the stagnant price of video games - the ever-increasing sales volumes. The cost of producing additional copies of a game is negligible, especially with the rise of digital distribution, so each copy sold after breaking even is pure profit. Since there is basically no production cost, developers (in theory, at least) dump part of their profit into the development of their next title. This allows them to stay competitive and results in skyrocketing budgets. The high budgets are a sign of a successful industry, not a struggling one. Despite the increasing budgets and seemingly stagnant launch prices, video game developers are more profitable than ever. It's because they are selling more copies than ever and have figured out plenty of ways to bring in extra revenue after the initial sale. If you ask me, things should go the opposite direction. A huge selection of cheap, high-quality indie titles have affected the relative value of "AAA" titles, to the point where I rarely consider spending full price on a game launched at $60. Either way, the industry has recently been dipping its toes in the water with a new $70 shelf price. We'll see if it sticks.
sneak 5y ago
Oculus cannot be used without a Facebook account. Facebook is an advertising company. It's simple: if you don't want ads, delete your Facebook account, and don't ever buy Oculus. I got an HTC Vive Pro 2 three days ago, and it's sweet. No Facebook required.
- pokot0 5y ago
  There is still no competitor for the standalone headset (Quest) which seems to be a more likely candidate for mass adoption. I own all of the (Oculus, HTC, Valve, several models for each) and I can tell you that convenience seems like the key more that quality of graphics.
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  When Facebook bought them, I remember part of the delusional gaming crowd saying crap like "no don't worry guys, FB will respect the Oculus, they won't ruin it! FB login? They won't require it! Ads? No they won't!"
  - StevenWaterman 5y ago
    I remember they put out a statement saying it would never require a FB login, and that you were ridiculous to suggest it would ever have ads. Had an oculus rift DK1 at the time - deleted my accounts, unsubscribed from everything, and bought an HTC vive shortly after it came out. Wasn't buying that at the time, and I feel vindicated now.
    - d3nj4l 5y ago
      I don't think they ever put out a formal statement (I'd love to be corrected on this). What I do remember is Palmer Luckey saying that, but then, it's really on the Oculus community to have believed the words of a 22 year old about to make millions.
      - numpad0 5y ago
        Facebook kept the promise(in airbquotes) though. Whoever behind Palmer’s Reddit account said he _personally_ assure that _Rift_ remains usable forever without an account, IIRC. Facebook killed Rift few years later.
mbank 5y ago
The saddest thing about these VR companies (or any other hyped yet insubstantial new thing for that matter) to me is the fact that they got acquired too quickly that one cannot short them on the stock exchange...
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Calling VR insubstantial is absurd. Just because VR helmets won't be as popular as mobile phones doesn't make them so. It's like calling an Xbox insubstantial. What VR lacks in game variety, it makes up for in how unique the experience is. VR consoles will be able to get new games and apps, while "regular" consoles won't get more unique without releasing new models. Gaming in VR is also a lot more beginner friendly. Console Controllers are not intuitive, whereas VR controls almost always are. In short, VR is already very viable and its future is extremely promising. But if you want to short stuff, be my guest.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    > Console Controllers are not intuitive, whereas VR controls almost always are. Almost all console controllers follow a similar control scheme for decades (minus the front buttons like "share" or the touchpads). I don't see them as unintuitive.
    - Duralias 5y ago
      They are for someone who hasn't ever played a game, easier to get them to learn how to do stuff with vr controllers than with a console controller, vr incorporates far more normal movements that everyone already knows how to do, like picking stuff up or aiming a gun/bow, shooting is easy it is aiming it that is hard.
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      Billions of people have never held a console controller. For them, VR will be far more intuitive than controllers. VR is intuitive for all humans. I invite you to watch this extremely enlightening video: https://youtu.be/nyJUza39ELE https://youtu.be/nyJUza39ELE (it's also a good channel in general)
lwhi 5y ago
I really believe in VR. I despise Facebook and advertising. We need an alternative.
- driverdan 5y ago
  There are a bunch of other VR headsets. Buy a different one.
  - shafyy 5y ago
    There is no real alternative to the Quest, unfortunately.
    - rijoja 5y ago
      Hopefully some Chinese company will manufacture a similar system somewhat compatible with android. WebXR exists however that is probably not as performant however.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    That only works for someone belongs to hard anti-Facebook cluster like I am. The situation is similar to hobby drones, the alternatives to problematic ones are years behind for higher prices.
    - driverdan 5y ago
      They aren't years behind but are more expensive since they arne't being subsidized to eat up your data.
      - selfhoster11 5y ago
        Do you really think that data from the VR headset is worth $300 (or more)? I'm skeptical that it's worth that much unless they are jacked in every waking moment.
      - Mindwipe 5y ago
tuyguntn 5y ago
Time to find a buyer for my Oculus, why the heck I should pay for game and then see ads there?
DangitBobby 5y ago
Honestly I personally do not want an Oculus (mostly because it is owned by Facebook and tied to a Facebook login) but if ads allow them to make the platform even more affordable to consumers, this could be a boon to VR overall. Ideally, ads means cheaper hardware which leads to a larger consumer base which entices a larger developer base, and, hopefully, more and better VR games when the dust settles.
rychco 5y ago
I despise ads in all forms, and the absolute worst offenders are ads built into a platform just like this. Windows 10 shouldn’t be advertising on my desktop, PlayStation/Xbox shouldn’t be advertising on my dashboard, cars shouldn’t be advertising on the controls/display, and Facebook shouldn’t be advertising in my virtual reality headset.
- shafyy 5y ago
  FWIW, the ads are not on the platform level, but inside individual games and apps. For now. (I also despise ads)
  - BEEdwards 5y ago
    That's worse... Can't even use escapist reality to escape from ads now.
  - SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
    > but inside individual games and apps. IMO that's worse. You spend more time in game than on the menu screen. Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close.
    - lawl 5y ago
      > Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close. Valve has tried that a long time ago too and it wasn't successful. There's still some hope.
      - tpxl 5y ago
        Valve had ads in games?
        lawl 5y ago
        yes. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGame_Ads_For_CounterStrike.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGam... https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-game-ads https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-ga...
bitL 5y ago
A little off-topic - does anyone know why Steam takes screenshots of VR content played in a headset? I've noticed multiple times that Steam's Screen Capture process ended up hanging with HP Reverb G2 and am wondering why do they need to take screenshots? I'd have expected that from Facebook (privacy lol) but don't understand why Steam bothers with it?
- rightbyte 5y ago
  Is it a multiplayer game? I know eg. Battlefield 2 took screenshots for game server admins to look for cheaters. In the good old days where I wouldn't suspect the screenshots to be used for big data spying ..
- june11 5y ago
  Its for the in vr steam overlay to display your desktop. Steam compositor also takes a copy of the vr view to display within the little steamvr window, in the PIP view.
pazimzadeh 5y ago
One of the best features of AR is going to be the ability to detect real world ads and cover them up with a black box, or some nice wallpaper.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  i find advertisements much more interesting than wallpaper. Not sure why that's going to be a good feature.
  - rijoja 5y ago
    I prefer wallpapper over advertisement every day so this would be a great feature.
vyrotek 5y ago
Well, that's annoying. I just purchased Blaston. I don't regret my purchase quite yet though. It's been an amazing device for our whole family. The VR bar has been set in eyes of my kids and they want more. I wonder if my PiHole will block these ads?
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
Oculus was an excellent product and the Quest was surprisingly successful but weirdly Facebook is being way too aggressive with trying to make the platform profitable like a traditional FB product before it's fully entrenched. Think this might eventually be their downfall, if Sony could ship a stand alone headset at Quest quality they'd probably be able to eat FB's lunch at this point because the push to force you to use an FB account and now pushing ads into it are making it far less appealing. Really they should have just let it fly for a few more years like how they allowed Instagram to be Instagram for a few years before they ruined it with ads and algorithms gradually.
- hbosch 5y ago
  I think if VR had the same adoption curve that Facebook initially enjoyed, we would be able to wait longer for the inevitable ad push. Anecdotally speaking, I haven't seen VR "take off" like people online hope it will year after year. Seems likely that the VR market has quite some pressure on it to turn profits soon before it bleeds out.
perryizgr8 5y ago
I don't understand this obsession with ads. Let's see what a person has to spend to play one of these games: 1. A powerful PC (at least $1000) 2. The headset (at least $300) 3. The game (Beat Saber $30) So after paying this much ($1330) why is advertising needed? Do AAA games need additional ad funding after selling their games? Do indie game devs need additional ad funding after selling their game? The problem with ads is that is it inherently disruptive and annoying wherever it is inserted (billboards, movies, TV, youtube, webpages). Why do you want to annoy and irritate customers paying a premium for your next gen platform?

146 points by shivbhatt 5y ago

Is it just me? I would rather just pay for stuff and be done with it rather than have my attention and sensorium sold to the highest bidder.

Nextgrid 5y ago
But this doesn't satisfy the advertising industry's greed.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
That's a very anti-capitalist statement of you, do you even want others to get rich? Would you deny them their wealth? I am shook. /s of course
haxiomic 5y ago
Support the companies that offer this an encourage others to do the same - I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect
- bogwog 5y ago
  > I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect That's why it's awesome that Valve is so heavily invested in VR to counter that. They might not have more money than Facebook, but they have more than enough to compete with them. Plus, they have the expertise in video games that Facebook doesn't. It's just a shame that Valve is by all accounts a highly dysfunctional company.
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price -- FB is the only player right now that sells a standalone unit and that unit is one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, headset on the market with a $300 MSRP. Everyone else is far more expensive and requires a PC with a discrete GPU (or game console, in the case of the PlayStation VR), so the total cost of entry ends up being far higher. What Valve is doing with the Index is really cool, but they're still operating as if they're trying to sell to VR enthusiasts, while Facebook is cornering the market by trying to sell to the general public.
    - wlesieutre 5y ago
      Oculus Quest 2 is the most popular headset on Steam's hardware survey, and that's only counting the ones who have it hooked up to their computer https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
    - bogwog 5y ago
      > The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price I don't think that's true. The main problem right now is that VR is still (even after all these years) an unproven/experimental consumer product. It's like buying a game console in the 70s-80s compared to buying one today. Back then, video games were still largely experimental and you were more likely to get garbage than gold. Today, designers know what works/doesn't work, and consumers can be confident in their purchases. VR is not like that yet. A "VR Game" is still a vague and uncertain term, and consumers can't have confidence in it yet. There are some great VR experiences out there, but there are many many more garbage ones. I think that a company focusing on finding a good fit for VR is going to be better off long-term than one just trying to corner this early market. Example: If Valve figures out the "secret sauce" for VR games (much like Nintendo did in the early console wars), it's not going to matter how cheap Facebook's headsets are. People (including Oculus owners) will flock to Steam for the superior experiences while Facebook scrambles to make clones. With a failed "platform", Facebook will ultimately lose. If anything, Facebook's investments to flood the market with cheap headsets (possibly even subsidizing them) could end up helping Valve in the long term, since it just means more potential Steam customers, and it gives Valve the opportunity to experiment with the high-end stuff without worrying about the market completely dying in the meantime.
paulcole 5y ago
Personally, I don’t mind ads. I like buying things and like seeing things I don’t know about that I might want to buy.
- dncornholio 5y ago
  This is true. But I don't like seeing the same ad over and over again. I don't like seeing ads of stuff that I've already bought and I especially don't like to watch a commercial for the thousandth time for a video I'm not sure even is worth watching. I can agree that ads are not necessarily bad.
- croes 5y ago
  Do you like being tricked to buy things you don't need? Ever heard of Edward Bernays? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
  - paulcole 5y ago
    Yeah, I don’t mind it. Realistically I need almost nothing but yet I buy a lot of things. Probably got “tricked” a few times but don’t particularly care.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  I too like to buy things, but interrupting me to offer me things I might like is really wasteful. Allow me to submit things I want to buy and then let companies suggest things based on that.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    I don’t always know what I want to buy. Faster horses and all that…
    - tomjen3 5y ago
      True enough. I guess maybe the site could be made to let me share my current pain points?
tempodox 5y ago
But then it would be so pointless to require an FB account before you can use it at all. Wouldn't that be a pity.
Agentlien 5y ago
My first response when seeing this article was that I'm, yet again, so happy I did not get an Oculus. I'm very happy with my Vive Cosmos and it works without a Facebook account and hasn't shown me any ads so far.
- croon 5y ago
  I get what you're saying, but honestly the Quest is in a whole other league, as a product. I had an original Vive, and understand that Cosmos has higher fidelity etc, but the Quest inside-out-tracking is good enough, and can be used with or without a PC, with or without a cable to said PC, the resolution is great, and the compression on the PC interfaces while noticable is, again, good enough. I sincerely don't miss the lighthouses and cables, and can make a new area in any part of the house, at any time. I just wish it wasn't owned by Facebook. But there's no competitor, unfortunately.
  - Agentlien 5y ago
    I understand where you're coming from and ignoring the Facebook aspect the Quest would perhaps be the product for me, though I can't say I see much of an advantage of it over my current system. Cosmos also has inside out tracking so no beacons and I honestly don't mind the cables. I never really notice them when I play. I did with the original Vive when I tried it at work, though. As for the PC, I'm an avid gamer and graphics programmer for a AAA studio. My VR is set up in my home office so I have access to a more than adequate PC, anyway. What I really do mind is a lack of graphical fidelity. Cosmos was the first option I tried which really felt good enough for me (the original Vive always felt cool but not quite there) and I know Quest has very similar resolution. But noticeable compression artifacts sound like something that would really bother me.
nindalf 5y ago
It’s not just you, but you are a tiny minority. You’ve expressed a sentiment that’s very popular on HN, but not among the general population. Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%. Even on HN I don’t think that number would be more than 10%.
- serf 5y ago
  >Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%. I think that's an inaccurate assessment of 'people who don't want to see ads', given that statistics put internet wide usage of ad-blockers at around 42%.[0]. Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience. [0]: https://backlinko.com/ad-blockers-users https://backlinko.com/ad-blockers-users
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    > Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience. I vehemently refuse to pay for YouTube Premium for that exact reason. I get ads that amount to something like "You know how we just stuff ads down your eyeballs constantly? You know how it's really annoying? For just X.99 a month, we'll no longer do that!" These enrage me to the core. Now that I have NewPipe and other methods of watching YouTube without ads and artificially freezing the stream when I switch away from the app, the official app is useless.
    - recursive 5y ago
      I don't understand this. Would it be better if YouTube "Free" didn't even exist? No one's forcing anyone to use youtube. How is this different from any subscription service that has a hobbled "lite" version?
      - 5y ago
terlisimo 5y ago
Amazon recognizes this :) Kindle with ads: 120 EUR. Kindle without ads: 140 EUR.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
It's absolutely not just you. Those people would put ads under our eyelids if they could get away with it. We need to actively fight against this by somehow blocking all these ads with no exceptions. Drive their return on investment as close to zero as possible.
jokoon 5y ago
Most consumers are okay with it and tolerate large doses of advertising.

jsnell 5y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532243

chandra381 5y ago

> Facebook added that Oculus users will be able to hide individual ads or choose not to see ads from a certain advertiser. Very interesting. The Oculus is quite a good deal at 299 USD given its technical specifications. I suspected that they were selling them below cost and subsidising them through stuff like this. The issue is that, as a data-driven organisation I am certain that they would have assessed the likely impact of including ads on turning away users and made that the decision.

prepend 5y ago

> Facebook said it will use the test to explore ways to help developers earn revenue on the Oculus platform. How about by just selling games? I hate this mealy-mouthed way of deflecting that it’s not about Facebook’s revenue, but about “helping developers.”

cj 5y ago
Aren't Oculus games typically $20-50? The price points for games always seemed very high to me. In an ideal world they'd offer a "no ads, full price" version and a "discount with ads" version. My guess is we'll probably just be left with "full price with ads" as the only option.
- nuclearcookie 5y ago
  What would you consider a fair price for a game? Are you talking about games in general or just games on Oculus?
  - rychco 5y ago
    I’m definitely a minority in this regard, but I completely support increasing the price of games across the board. Development is more expensive & involves more people now. The cost of games has been $60 for what, 15 years? One additional problem is that everybody wants to cash in on subscriptions and micro transactions for continuous money, even when you’ve already paid “full” price.
    - CivBase 5y ago
      > The cost of games has been $60 for what, 15 years? Not really. $60 is an introductory price, but most games at that price launch with at least one $80+ special edition and are supplemented with $40+ of post-launch content with much higher margins than the original game. And that's before considering some of the more contentious monetization practices like micro-transactions and "loot boxes". In many cases devs and publishers slash the initial price of a game shortly after launch (usually a year or two) to increase player counts, because more players generally means more sales of post-launch content. And that's something else nobody ever seems to bring up when discussing the stagnant price of video games - the ever-increasing sales volumes. The cost of producing additional copies of a game is negligible, especially with the rise of digital distribution, so each copy sold after breaking even is pure profit. Since there is basically no production cost, developers (in theory, at least) dump part of their profit into the development of their next title. This allows them to stay competitive and results in skyrocketing budgets. The high budgets are a sign of a successful industry, not a struggling one. Despite the increasing budgets and seemingly stagnant launch prices, video game developers are more profitable than ever. It's because they are selling more copies than ever and have figured out plenty of ways to bring in extra revenue after the initial sale. If you ask me, things should go the opposite direction. A huge selection of cheap, high-quality indie titles have affected the relative value of "AAA" titles, to the point where I rarely consider spending full price on a game launched at $60. Either way, the industry has recently been dipping its toes in the water with a new $70 shelf price. We'll see if it sticks.

sneak 5y ago

Oculus cannot be used without a Facebook account. Facebook is an advertising company. It's simple: if you don't want ads, delete your Facebook account, and don't ever buy Oculus. I got an HTC Vive Pro 2 three days ago, and it's sweet. No Facebook required.

pokot0 5y ago
There is still no competitor for the standalone headset (Quest) which seems to be a more likely candidate for mass adoption. I own all of the (Oculus, HTC, Valve, several models for each) and I can tell you that convenience seems like the key more that quality of graphics.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
When Facebook bought them, I remember part of the delusional gaming crowd saying crap like "no don't worry guys, FB will respect the Oculus, they won't ruin it! FB login? They won't require it! Ads? No they won't!"
- StevenWaterman 5y ago
  I remember they put out a statement saying it would never require a FB login, and that you were ridiculous to suggest it would ever have ads. Had an oculus rift DK1 at the time - deleted my accounts, unsubscribed from everything, and bought an HTC vive shortly after it came out. Wasn't buying that at the time, and I feel vindicated now.
  - d3nj4l 5y ago
    I don't think they ever put out a formal statement (I'd love to be corrected on this). What I do remember is Palmer Luckey saying that, but then, it's really on the Oculus community to have believed the words of a 22 year old about to make millions.
    - numpad0 5y ago
      Facebook kept the promise(in airbquotes) though. Whoever behind Palmer’s Reddit account said he _personally_ assure that _Rift_ remains usable forever without an account, IIRC. Facebook killed Rift few years later.

mbank 5y ago

The saddest thing about these VR companies (or any other hyped yet insubstantial new thing for that matter) to me is the fact that they got acquired too quickly that one cannot short them on the stock exchange...

scrollaway 5y ago
Calling VR insubstantial is absurd. Just because VR helmets won't be as popular as mobile phones doesn't make them so. It's like calling an Xbox insubstantial. What VR lacks in game variety, it makes up for in how unique the experience is. VR consoles will be able to get new games and apps, while "regular" consoles won't get more unique without releasing new models. Gaming in VR is also a lot more beginner friendly. Console Controllers are not intuitive, whereas VR controls almost always are. In short, VR is already very viable and its future is extremely promising. But if you want to short stuff, be my guest.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  > Console Controllers are not intuitive, whereas VR controls almost always are. Almost all console controllers follow a similar control scheme for decades (minus the front buttons like "share" or the touchpads). I don't see them as unintuitive.
  - Duralias 5y ago
    They are for someone who hasn't ever played a game, easier to get them to learn how to do stuff with vr controllers than with a console controller, vr incorporates far more normal movements that everyone already knows how to do, like picking stuff up or aiming a gun/bow, shooting is easy it is aiming it that is hard.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    Billions of people have never held a console controller. For them, VR will be far more intuitive than controllers. VR is intuitive for all humans. I invite you to watch this extremely enlightening video: https://youtu.be/nyJUza39ELE https://youtu.be/nyJUza39ELE (it's also a good channel in general)

lwhi 5y ago

I really believe in VR. I despise Facebook and advertising. We need an alternative.

driverdan 5y ago
There are a bunch of other VR headsets. Buy a different one.
- shafyy 5y ago
  There is no real alternative to the Quest, unfortunately.
  - rijoja 5y ago
    Hopefully some Chinese company will manufacture a similar system somewhat compatible with android. WebXR exists however that is probably not as performant however.
- numpad0 5y ago
  That only works for someone belongs to hard anti-Facebook cluster like I am. The situation is similar to hobby drones, the alternatives to problematic ones are years behind for higher prices.
  - driverdan 5y ago
    They aren't years behind but are more expensive since they arne't being subsidized to eat up your data.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Do you really think that data from the VR headset is worth $300 (or more)? I'm skeptical that it's worth that much unless they are jacked in every waking moment.
    - Mindwipe 5y ago

tuyguntn 5y ago

Time to find a buyer for my Oculus, why the heck I should pay for game and then see ads there?

DangitBobby 5y ago

Honestly I personally do not want an Oculus (mostly because it is owned by Facebook and tied to a Facebook login) but if ads allow them to make the platform even more affordable to consumers, this could be a boon to VR overall. Ideally, ads means cheaper hardware which leads to a larger consumer base which entices a larger developer base, and, hopefully, more and better VR games when the dust settles.

rychco 5y ago

I despise ads in all forms, and the absolute worst offenders are ads built into a platform just like this. Windows 10 shouldn’t be advertising on my desktop, PlayStation/Xbox shouldn’t be advertising on my dashboard, cars shouldn’t be advertising on the controls/display, and Facebook shouldn’t be advertising in my virtual reality headset.

shafyy 5y ago
FWIW, the ads are not on the platform level, but inside individual games and apps. For now. (I also despise ads)
- BEEdwards 5y ago
  That's worse... Can't even use escapist reality to escape from ads now.
- SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
  > but inside individual games and apps. IMO that's worse. You spend more time in game than on the menu screen. Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close.
  - lawl 5y ago
    > Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close. Valve has tried that a long time ago too and it wasn't successful. There's still some hope.
    - tpxl 5y ago
      Valve had ads in games?
      - lawl 5y ago
        yes. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGame_Ads_For_CounterStrike.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGam... https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-game-ads https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-ga...

bitL 5y ago

A little off-topic - does anyone know why Steam takes screenshots of VR content played in a headset? I've noticed multiple times that Steam's Screen Capture process ended up hanging with HP Reverb G2 and am wondering why do they need to take screenshots? I'd have expected that from Facebook (privacy lol) but don't understand why Steam bothers with it?

rightbyte 5y ago
Is it a multiplayer game? I know eg. Battlefield 2 took screenshots for game server admins to look for cheaters. In the good old days where I wouldn't suspect the screenshots to be used for big data spying ..
june11 5y ago
Its for the in vr steam overlay to display your desktop. Steam compositor also takes a copy of the vr view to display within the little steamvr window, in the PIP view.

pazimzadeh 5y ago

One of the best features of AR is going to be the ability to detect real world ads and cover them up with a black box, or some nice wallpaper.

missedthecue 5y ago
i find advertisements much more interesting than wallpaper. Not sure why that's going to be a good feature.
- rijoja 5y ago
  I prefer wallpapper over advertisement every day so this would be a great feature.

vyrotek 5y ago

Well, that's annoying. I just purchased Blaston. I don't regret my purchase quite yet though. It's been an amazing device for our whole family. The VR bar has been set in eyes of my kids and they want more. I wonder if my PiHole will block these ads?

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

Oculus was an excellent product and the Quest was surprisingly successful but weirdly Facebook is being way too aggressive with trying to make the platform profitable like a traditional FB product before it's fully entrenched. Think this might eventually be their downfall, if Sony could ship a stand alone headset at Quest quality they'd probably be able to eat FB's lunch at this point because the push to force you to use an FB account and now pushing ads into it are making it far less appealing. Really they should have just let it fly for a few more years like how they allowed Instagram to be Instagram for a few years before they ruined it with ads and algorithms gradually.

hbosch 5y ago
I think if VR had the same adoption curve that Facebook initially enjoyed, we would be able to wait longer for the inevitable ad push. Anecdotally speaking, I haven't seen VR "take off" like people online hope it will year after year. Seems likely that the VR market has quite some pressure on it to turn profits soon before it bleeds out.

perryizgr8 5y ago

I don't understand this obsession with ads. Let's see what a person has to spend to play one of these games: 1. A powerful PC (at least $1000) 2. The headset (at least $300) 3. The game (Beat Saber $30) So after paying this much ($1330) why is advertising needed? Do AAA games need additional ad funding after selling their games? Do indie game devs need additional ad funding after selling their game? The problem with ads is that is it inherently disruptive and annoying wherever it is inserted (billboards, movies, TV, youtube, webpages). Why do you want to annoy and irritate customers paying a premium for your next gen platform?