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Today we’re eating the winners of the 1948 Chicken of Tomorrow contest
- InsaneOstrich 5y agoThe past's chicken of tomorrow is the chicken of today
- blakesterz 5y agoIf this story is interesting to you, Gastropod did a really interesting episode on this a while back: The Birds and The Bugs https://gastropod.com/the-birds-and-the-bugs/ https://gastropod.com/the-birds-and-the-bugs/
- seanwilson 5y ago> And that life keeps getting shorter and shorter – four to seven weeks, to be exact. In the 1950s, a broiler chicken lived a full 16 weeks. The faster and heavier method that won the contest was amplified by confinement, and while the chickens come out of those cages fatter, they tend to get sicker, too. They have insatiable appetites, which leaves them stressed, as evidenced in their poor reproduction capabilities, cardiovascular failure and skeletal problems. They’ve been pumped with so many antibiotics, they’ve developed resistances. The chickens’ weak legs and overworked hearts strain every week their lives are extended. Chickens are meant to be able to live to around 10 years old as well which makes this even worse to me. There's nothing humane or natural about it. I think consumers need to take more personal responsibility in what kind of practices their wallets are supporting.
- codeulike 5y agoIts so fast now, we're killing 50 billion chickens per year to eat. 136 million per day. 1585 per second. More than 1 chicken per millisecond. Start the stopwatch on your phone and watch those milliseconds fly by. Living breathing creatures raised in tiny cages and never seeing the sky or scratching dirt with their feet.
- oftenwrong 5y agoI don't doubt it, but what is the source of this figure?
- MattGaiser 5y agohttps://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/chart-of-the-day-this-is-how-many-animals-we-eat-each-year/#:~:text=An%20estimated%2050%20billion%20chickens,hens%20killed%20in%20egg%20production https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/chart-of-the-day-this....
- kapp_in_life 5y agoWe can barely get people to care about their fellow man, I'm pessimistic about getting people to care about the genocide we commit towards animals on an hourly basis. Edit: And for the record I'm vegan.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago> the genocide we commit towards animals on an hourly basis It's not genocide, by definition, if we have no desire to extinct the species.
- sweetheart 5y agoHolocaust then?
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y agoStill not quite right; still centers on destruction being the intention. The problem, I think, is that you're reaching for the most emotionally-charged words when they don't actually fit. We don't hate animals; they just taste good. So it's just slaughter on an industrial scale.
- sweetheart 5y ago
- tlarkworthy 5y agoChicken is relatively friendly to climate. I would consider it a good thing if people ate more chicken and less red meat. They are our top animal protein source at scale for least greenhouse gas emissions [1]. [1] https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1382 https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1...
- codeulike 5y agoEven the most sustainable meat is worse for the environment than plant-based protein https://www.fastcompany.com/90461008/this-graph-will-show-you-the-carbon-footprint-of-your-protein https://www.fastcompany.com/90461008/this-graph-will-show-yo...
- moistbar 5y agoDo plant-based proteins have the B vitamins that most of the world is deficient in?
- kapp_in_life 5y agoThis is silly. The solution to a vitamin deficiency is vitamins. Clearly they're deficient while eating meat too, so that doesn't seem like a strong argument against plant based proteins.
- moistbar 5y ago> In all, 52% of vegans, 7% of vegetarians and one omnivore were classified as vitamin B12 deficient (defined as serum vitamin B12 < 118 pmol/l). [0] [0] http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentrations-of-folate-and-votamin-b12-by-diet-group http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentra... No, they are not "clearly deficient while eating meat" as you claim. There's a documented B12 deficiency in vegans and vegetarians that isn't present in meat eaters.
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- gwbas1c 5y agoIt's just one step on the way to growing muscle tissue in a controlled environment without the actual animal. But, not be pedantic, but chicken evolved as a domesticated, food-producing animal. They're "meant" to make food, either via eggs or meat, not to have a specific lifespan.
- woodruffw 5y ago> But, not be pedantic, but chicken evolved as a domesticated, food-producing animal. They're "meant" to make food, either via eggs or meat, not to have a specific lifespan. I think it's slightly more complicated than that. The history of domestication is one of long-term relationships: we have historically bred animals not only to produce food, but also to serve roles (foodwaste removal, fertilizing, haulage) that aren't necessarily best served by rapid growth. Industrial agriculture has removed the need for most of those roles, but they're still very visible in the selected features of popular breeds.
- gruez 5y ago>I think it's slightly more complicated than that. The history of domestication is one of long-term relationships: we have historically bred animals not only to produce food, but also to serve roles (foodwaste removal, fertilizing, haulage) that aren't necessarily best served by rapid growth. What can you do with a pig other than eating it? As for chickens/cows, I'm fairly certain that the males are basically only useful for meat.
- woodruffw 5y agoPigs have historically served foodwaste and sanitation roles. But you bring up a great point, and it’s one that anthropologists have remarked on as a potential source for religious taboos around pork (pigs just aren’t that useful compared to other animals). Male cows are best known in their neutered form (a surprising number of people think that oxen are their own species). They’re instrumental beasts of burden. But again, industrialized agriculture doesn’t have much use for them.
- brutal_chaos_ 5y ago> I think consumers need to take more personal responsibility in what kind of practices their wallets are supporting. Consumers aren't making the choice to treat the animals that way, the business are. And (most likely) without regulation, that will not change. Not enough people/consumers have enough discretionary spending to make a change (I believe). I for one don't even know where I can buy meat from well-treated chickens. Sure I can look it up, but most consumers will need to as well, which will probably not happen. It's about high time we stop putting things on the consumer (see recycling) and make the businesses do better for our ecosystem. I hope not to add too many more regulations, the fewer the better IMHO, but damn, there still needs to be some.
- jfim 5y agoThat's the price we pay for making everything an interchangeable commodity. If you go to the grocery store, there might be some organic chicken and non organic chicken, but not that much of a choice otherwise. There's no real way to know whether the place treats their chickens and workers well, what kind of feed or environment the chickens live in, if it's a local farm or a mega factory, and so on. On the upside, the prices are lower and we get any kind of produce year round. On the downside, that produce might come from across the world, be specific breeds that survive shipping well and look good at the expense of taste, and generally not come from local farms but rather large factory farms.
- sweetheart 5y agoThey killed the chicken, so you know it wasn't treated well.
- mosseater 5y agoConsumers are totally making the choice. You could make the same argument that the consumer's demand for lots of meat is causing the businesses to have to do this. In reality it's a chain of choices made by multiple groups of people. The consumers, the industry, and whatever governmental regulatory bodies are involved. One group can't just give up responsibility of the choices they are making. In the end, consumers drive the market. If there's no consumers of unethical meat, no one will unethically raise meat. Out of the groups of people involved, it's only the consumers participation that keeps the cycle alive. Eating meat isn't a required activity for humans. If the treatment the chickens are going through doesn't seem ethical to you, continuing to eat it is hypocritical. You can totally reduce your meat consumption in order to afford eating ethically raised meat, or just not eat meat at all.
- hourislate 5y agoJust changing that around a little kind of reflects what's happening in the office the past few decades. >amplified by confinement, and while the developers come out of those cubes fatter, they tend to get sicker, too. They have insatiable appetites, which leaves them stressed, as evidenced in their poor reproduction capabilities, cardiovascular failure and skeletal problems. They’ve been pumped with so many antibiotics, they’ve developed resistances. The Developers weak legs and overworked hearts strain every week their lives are extended.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago" I think consumers need to take more personal responsibility in what kind of practices their wallets are supporting" Ok. So, has the market gotten to the point that even in small towns, people can choose more humane meat? They have "free range eggs", and I pay for, basically, "free range plus", but these aren't really humane, only better: Are there other commonly available options? (Im personally pescetarian leaning heavily into vegetarian: I don't know about meat options available) I don't think everyone is going to go vegan (it is hard to balance the nutrition) and even vegetarian isn't going to be everywhere if there is a culture of meat-eating, so the best thing we can do is less* meat, and the meat we have is humane. But we are back at the beginning: There is realistically no way to speak with your wallet since a lot of places simply have no choice - and no way to verify claims (they might be as misleading as free range eggs). This pretty much put us at the point where if you are moneyed enough, you can source it: Everyone else has to hope that government changes rules enough so that everyone can choose humanely produced meat.
- jghn 5y agoI get my meat/eggs as a monthly farm share. The animals are treated humanely. One can visit the farm if they so desire, to see the conditions. The downside? It's expensive. Most people, even those who care in principal, don't care enough to pay 2x, 3x, or more than the grocery store prices.
- codeulike 5y agoSo, has the market gotten to the point that even in small towns, people can choose more humane meat? Yes, at least in Europe. Organic meat comes with certain rules about the treatment of the animals. edit: see Article 12 of EU Regulation 889/2008 for organic poultry standards - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:250:0001:0084:en:PDF https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:...
- mc32 5y agoChickens can achieve the age of ten under special circumstances (pet chicken protected from predators) Chickens in their wild habitat will live a year, two maybe three before succumbing to predators or disease. So if you have a hen and it’s over 3 years old, it’s older than most chickens in the wild. You should feel as guilty as a fox feels if you have it for dinner.
- robocat 5y ago“Upon examining poultry carcasses from Britain’s Iron Age and Roman and Saxon period, the archaeologists discovered these chickens of yore lived between two and four years”[1] Edit 2: another article that seems legitimate suggests 10 years as the lifespan for the Junglefowl.[4] I had difficulty finding the lifetime of wild Junglefowl, but they live longer than domesticated chickens e.g. “In captivity, the lifespan of the Red Jungle Fowl averages 15-20 years”[2] which suggests that the wild ancestors lived longer than you might suspect. Edit: Following the link shows that number is made up, sorry “Maximum longevity: 30 years (captivity) Observations: Chickens are considered a relatively short-lived and fast ageing species (Holmes et al. 2003). The maximum longevity in captivity of these birds, however, has been reported to be 30 years (http://www.demogr.mpg.de/longevityrecords http://www.demogr.mpg.de/longevityrecords). This is not impossible considering the large number of animals kept in captivity, yet remains unproven. For comparative analyses the use of a more conservative value for maximum longevity, such as 15 or 20 years, is recommended. Domestic chicken reach sexual maturity before six months of age.”[3]. This looks like a reasonable article about lifetimes of modern chickens: https://delaneychicken.com/how-long-do-chickens-live/ https://delaneychicken.com/how-long-do-chickens-live/ [1] https://thetakeout.com/chickens-live-longer-bone-dating-archaeology-iron-age-r-1847061967 https://thetakeout.com/chickens-live-longer-bone-dating-arch... [2] https://wiki.nus.edu.sg/display/TAX/Gallus+gallus+-+Red+Jungle+Fowl https://wiki.nus.edu.sg/display/TAX/Gallus+gallus+-+Red+Jung... [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20120206062215/http://eol.org/pages/1049263/overview https://web.archive.org/web/20120206062215/http://eol.org/pa... [4] https://animalalmanacblog.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/animal-spotlight-red-junglefowl/ https://animalalmanacblog.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/animal-sp...
- breput 5y agoMystery Science Theater 3000 riffing on the Chicken Of Tomorrow documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G0stojwYjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G0stojwYjI
- shrubble 5y agoA farmer friend of mine told me that the chickens must sent to the slaughterhouses at a certain time, since beyond that, the chickens have heart attacks... the heart can't support the load placed on it.
- chrisco255 5y agoI somehow doubt that. My mom raises chickens for eggs and they live a couple of years. She used to free range them but lost too many to coyote attacks, so now she keeps them cooped.
- shrubble 5y agoSorry for not being specific: I am referring to those chickens that are factory-farmed under confinement rather than free range.
- VoiceOfWisdom 5y agoThe chickens kept in a factory farm are different from what most people keep at home.
- slacktide 5y agoThe ENTIRE point of the story is that industrial meat farmers raise a breed of chicken which has been engineered to only live a short lifespan before consumption. Laying hens are a completely different breed, so your mother's experience is not relevant.
- chrisco255 5y agohttps://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/cornish-cross-broilers-chicken-sold-in-quantities-of-10 https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/cornish-cross-broi... They sell the same chickens at Tractor Supply. They don't die that fast. I find it hard to believe you could cut longevity so dramatically from a few years or even decades of breeding.
- beebeepka 5y agoI gave up on chicken years before I went vegie. They we treat these creatures is disgraceful and disgusting. Now, I am not the type to advertise my diet unless it comes up at lunch with people who don't know me or something like that. But I am not ashamed to share that cultured meat is something I've been looking forward to with great interest for all sorts of reasons. Do what usually happens is there's at least one person to point how unnatural cultured meat sounds and that I will never work because it's disgusting. Can't help but lol every time. I guess eating sick young chickens, who have never seen the sun, is more natural an healthy. But I know I am not the crazy one. They are
- angrais 5y agoEating chickens is natural. Just like fish eat other fish, or cows eat grass. We eat all sorts of meat because the nutrition helped (and helps) our brains to develop into the big squishy ones we need. Will cultured meat have the same outcome? Who knows.
- HuShifang 5y agoHere I thought this was going to be a literally true headline, i.e. a report on a taste test of a new cell-ag product wherein preserved tissue samples from the 1948 chickens were used for the cell line that was cultured into the reporter's meal. It'd be a happier story, too. (One of the chickens who contributed tissue for Eat Just's cultured chicken product lived out his life at an animal sanctuary near the Bay Area. But due to the breeding practices referenced in the article, it was, sadly, a short life.)
- narrator 5y agoAurochs[1] were large wild cattle that went extinct. The meek domesticated chicken on the other hand has done extraordinarily well, evolutionarily speaking. The same goes for corn, which couldn't survive in its current state without human cultivation. If rhinos and other threatened species were somehow domesticated to be used for food or leather, like cattle, we'd probably have a lot more of them around. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs
- snet0 5y agoI am not sure that the lens of what you label "evolutionary success" is useful in any way. Would you rather a billion humans in Elysium or a trillion humans in Hades?
- chrisco255 5y agoThe big question: did we cultivate agriculture or did agriculture cultivate us? There wouldn't be 7 billion humans without industrial agriculture. You wouldn't exist. I wouldn't exist.
- narrator 5y agoAnts have a symbiotic fungus in their gut that they use to digest food. We have corn that we use to digest sunlight. Chickens that could not survive on their own now are the way we can turn carbohydrates into protein. Computers turn electricity into cognition. We will probably take chickens and corn with us to other planets.
- guardiangod 5y agoA result from today's fast-grown chickens is the epidemic of 'woody' chicken breast. https://holistickenko.com/woody-chicken-breast/ https://holistickenko.com/woody-chicken-breast/ An increase in size and growth rate has caused the meat of the muscles to become harder and rigid in texture, giving a distinctive bulge to the breast and becoming known as woody breast chicken. The chicken, even when cooked well, is harder and chewy. The white stripes that occur visually look like white lines running across the breast, tendons and thigh. A woody breast will feel firmer, like an incredibly tough muscle. When touching regular chicken breast the flesh is soft, you can press into it. Woody breast is simply firm to the touch, you cannot press into it (Kuttappan, V.A., et al., 2016). Occurrences of the woody chicken breast, as well as white stripes on chicken, have increased from around 1.4-8.7% in 2012 to a shocking 25.7-32.3% in 2015.
- ianlevesque 5y agoIt's really hard to avoid. It seems like every package of chicken has one of these thrown in with a few good ones. I usually end up checking them all and throwing the bad one out. It's terrible.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoAfter learning about this and how to look at it I look at chicken closely now before buying. Most of the time I can’t even get chicken that isn’t woody, just less woody than the other packages around it. Even the more expensive “organic” chicken seems to suffer from it.
- beerandt 5y ago>The chicken, even when cooked well, is harder and chewy. Ask me how I know the speaker isn't a meat eater.
- rdtwo 5y agoIf you have ever killed and eaten a laying hen you would know how tough that meat is. We definitely bred some mighty tasty chickens. I do think we could maybe refine them a bit for flavor and extend the time a bit more or less to get a more or less gamey flavor depending on preference. Also air chilled chicken is where it’s at. So much better than the water bath cooled ones
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- daniellarusso 5y agoI really miss the print edition of ‘Modern Farmer’.