6 ms·

Unless regulators force companies to respect automated protocols.

sascha_sl 5y ago
This. You can see the impact of this on the new iOS tracking permissions. Most people want to opt out, but can't. Regulators stepping in would spell the end of large sections of the online advertising industry, so I doubt it'll happen.
- dividedbyzero 5y ago
  > Most people want to opt out, but can't. Not following this too closely, I thought that's possible now, or at least as soon as the last few holdout apps get updated?
  - Macha 5y ago
    That's the point, by Apple taking control of the interface and preventing dark pattern bullshit, opt in rates are way lower on iOS than on websites.
- xbar 5y ago
  Regulators in the US do not seem to be completely in the pockets of the online advertisers quite yet, given recent legislation proposals. Regulators in the EU, even less so.
belorn 5y ago
The GDPR already explicitly forbids 95% of the cookie banners out there, but large companies decided to ignore it and simply face the fines if they in some hypothetical future will arrive. The rest of the industry followed. Until the law that defined informed consent actually get enforced, a new law can not really fix it unless the regulators start to add the threat of jail time to repeat offenders.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- virgilp 5y ago
  I mean, a good first step would be to start fining companies 2% of the revenue. Especially Google. And then maybe automate the GDPR fines, because it's definitely possible to identify that a site puts up a non-compliant banner. No need to add the threat of jail time, _especially_ if it isn't enforced.
  - delfinom 5y ago
    2% of revenue while stalling the GDPR process and taking it to court for 10 years makes it only 0.2% ;)
    - vntok 5y ago
      That would be 2% each year for ten years of infringement though, and very expensive lawyers to pay for at least that duration.
    - virgilp 5y ago
      Even so, it would be 0.2% per EU country, right? Because the legislation is transposed into member states legislation. I doubt that anybody would really want to fight (& risk losing) in even 5 member states per year...
- galgalesh 5y ago
  > but large companies decided to ignore it and simply face the fines if they in some hypothetical future will arrive. This is not the case. The fines are up to 2% of annual global turnover. This scares companies. Moreover, some of the worst offending cookie banners are slowly being replaced by better ones as more and more organizations (such as noyb) file official complaints and companies get fined.
  - anoncake 5y ago
    It obviously doesn't scare them enough, even if it should in theory.
pulse7 5y ago
It is time for the governments to take control back and start regulating BigTech: you can not easily opt-out from any data gathering from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... If you try it and turn it off on mobile phone and desktop you will constantly have issues and be flooded with messages like "turn on location services", etc. Yesterday I learned that my private calendar on my phone was replicated to Google Calendar >>for many years<< without my knowledge, because the default setting was to save new events into Google Calendar and not a local phone calendar... and I was not asked during setup if I would like that (I have turned off all replication / data sharing / etc.)... this is just crazy... they are basiclly STEALING MY DATA and sending it to the cloud where it is processed without my knowledge... I hope they pay BIG MONEY for these GDPR breaches...
- sam345 5y ago
  How is this possible? Probably forgot you gave consent to Google calendar?
  - pulse7 5y ago
    Be sure that I didn't give any consent...
  - ryukafalz 5y ago
    Recent Android phones sync a ton of stuff automatically - which I suppose you agree to by signing in with a Google account, but that's also typically required. I know this because on the last two Android phones I purchased, a set of old outdated contacts from my Google account were automatically synced to the phone as soon as I logged in, which I was required to do to begin using the device. Believe me, I would have opted out of this had I been prompted to do so during setup.
    - pulse7 5y ago
      Time to go away from GMail account...
  - pulse7 5y ago
2T1Qka0rEiPr 5y ago
I thought this exactly. Kind of like US requiring pension plan options to be provided in a certain consistent layout etc., were this spec to be demanded by e.g. the EU, then it could see a really positive shift

This. You can see the impact of this on the new iOS tracking permissions. Most people want to opt out, but can't. Regulators stepping in would spell the end of large sections of the online advertising industry, so I doubt it'll happen.

dividedbyzero 5y ago
> Most people want to opt out, but can't. Not following this too closely, I thought that's possible now, or at least as soon as the last few holdout apps get updated?
- Macha 5y ago
  That's the point, by Apple taking control of the interface and preventing dark pattern bullshit, opt in rates are way lower on iOS than on websites.
xbar 5y ago
Regulators in the US do not seem to be completely in the pockets of the online advertisers quite yet, given recent legislation proposals. Regulators in the EU, even less so.

belorn 5y ago

The GDPR already explicitly forbids 95% of the cookie banners out there, but large companies decided to ignore it and simply face the fines if they in some hypothetical future will arrive. The rest of the industry followed. Until the law that defined informed consent actually get enforced, a new law can not really fix it unless the regulators start to add the threat of jail time to repeat offenders.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
virgilp 5y ago
I mean, a good first step would be to start fining companies 2% of the revenue. Especially Google. And then maybe automate the GDPR fines, because it's definitely possible to identify that a site puts up a non-compliant banner. No need to add the threat of jail time, _especially_ if it isn't enforced.
- delfinom 5y ago
  2% of revenue while stalling the GDPR process and taking it to court for 10 years makes it only 0.2% ;)
  - vntok 5y ago
    That would be 2% each year for ten years of infringement though, and very expensive lawyers to pay for at least that duration.
  - virgilp 5y ago
    Even so, it would be 0.2% per EU country, right? Because the legislation is transposed into member states legislation. I doubt that anybody would really want to fight (& risk losing) in even 5 member states per year...
galgalesh 5y ago
> but large companies decided to ignore it and simply face the fines if they in some hypothetical future will arrive. This is not the case. The fines are up to 2% of annual global turnover. This scares companies. Moreover, some of the worst offending cookie banners are slowly being replaced by better ones as more and more organizations (such as noyb) file official complaints and companies get fined.
- anoncake 5y ago
  It obviously doesn't scare them enough, even if it should in theory.

pulse7 5y ago

It is time for the governments to take control back and start regulating BigTech: you can not easily opt-out from any data gathering from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... If you try it and turn it off on mobile phone and desktop you will constantly have issues and be flooded with messages like "turn on location services", etc. Yesterday I learned that my private calendar on my phone was replicated to Google Calendar >>for many years<< without my knowledge, because the default setting was to save new events into Google Calendar and not a local phone calendar... and I was not asked during setup if I would like that (I have turned off all replication / data sharing / etc.)... this is just crazy... they are basiclly STEALING MY DATA and sending it to the cloud where it is processed without my knowledge... I hope they pay BIG MONEY for these GDPR breaches...

sam345 5y ago
How is this possible? Probably forgot you gave consent to Google calendar?
- pulse7 5y ago
  Be sure that I didn't give any consent...
- ryukafalz 5y ago
  Recent Android phones sync a ton of stuff automatically - which I suppose you agree to by signing in with a Google account, but that's also typically required. I know this because on the last two Android phones I purchased, a set of old outdated contacts from my Google account were automatically synced to the phone as soon as I logged in, which I was required to do to begin using the device. Believe me, I would have opted out of this had I been prompted to do so during setup.
  - pulse7 5y ago
    Time to go away from GMail account...
- pulse7 5y ago

2T1Qka0rEiPr 5y ago

I thought this exactly. Kind of like US requiring pension plan options to be provided in a certain consistent layout etc., were this spec to be demanded by e.g. the EU, then it could see a really positive shift