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Several months ago a study came out showing that pacific islanders not only made it to South America 800 years ago, but sailed back to Easter Island and other p
by swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
Several months ago a study came out showing that pacific islanders not only made it to South America 800 years ago, but sailed back to Easter Island and other pacific islands after genetic mixing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/science/polynesian-ancestry.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/science/polynesian-ancest...
- xwdv 5y agoHard to imagine what motivated them to keep sailing all that way with no guarantee they would find anything.
- ch4s3 5y agoHitting the population limit of your island, and strong cultural norms around exploration.
- Ranebow6 5y agoYou could say that about almost any explorer ever.
- fighterpilot 5y agoBut modern explorers don't expect death if the "nothing" situation comes to pass. These were people that staked their life.
- Ranebow6 5y agoWell modern explorers have the benefit of always knowing that there is a "something", but probably still understand that there is risk in what they are doing. Historically though, plenty of explorers from many different cultures travelled to where there was potentially "nothing". Why would Pacific Island cultures be any different?
- pchristensen 5y agoThey brought food, they captured water from rain and condensation, and they could fish. Yes it was risky but they had a lot of runway due to their expertise on the water.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoModern explorers also can be reasonably assured there will be enough food to go around next year or the year after if they stay home.
- i386 5y agoBut they did. They used a lot of different indication for where islands were - bird migration, ocean currents, etc.
- lordnacho 5y agoI think the article alludes to it. First sons world inherit everything so little brother would have to sail out to find new land.
- testfoobar 5y agoTestosterone.
- mc32 5y agoSo these days with so many artificial ingredients and ultra processed foods and sedentary habits leading to decreased testosterone these journeys might not have taken place had they had our modern diets [and as child comment adds, lifestyle]?
- axaxs 5y agoI'm far from a scientist, but in my observations and reading, lifestyle has a far bigger impact than diet. Hard work boosts testosterone, there was even a study done showing how much it was boosted during chopping wood, for example. Modern folks are sedentary and often overweight, both of which contribute to lower testosterone, likely moreso than diet ever could. Men today are observably less 'manly' than in the past. But we seem to try to find someone or something to blame other than ourselves.
- mythrwy 5y agoMaybe also selection pressure (which has largely been removed). The men _who_survived_ were more manly in the past.
- axaxs 5y agoPerhaps, but I think we can drill down a bit further. Many third world countries have foods much, much more processed than we do in USA, yet they don't exhibit such effects generally. My own family is a huge old Irish/German conglomeration...I have 12 uncles and aunts. There's very clear demarcation of millenials vs the older ones, and especially those raised in a rural setting vs urban. I'd honestly like to see studies of how many, let's say 'metro' men spent summers bucking hay or stripping tobacco as a kid. I did, but I'm clearly less grizzled than my cousins who did such work year round as a kid. And I don't mean any of this to be insulting. I'm way less manly than my own father, and a millennial who spent childhood glued to screens.
- pchristensen 5y agoThey had already come a very, very long was from Asia to Australia, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, French Polynesia, Hawaii, etc. Finding land in an impossibly vast ocean was kind of their jam.
- contingencies 5y agoIf you see birds come from that direction, or tides come from that direction with flotsam, then you can bet there is land. Within certain range, if you see specific clouds or tones on the horizon, you can also imply land. Also, if you head that way the Americas are kind of hard to miss.
- p1necone 5y agoCuriosity is a very powerful thing.
- rorykoehler 5y agoHow do we know they didn't know they would find anything? There is lots of evidence that we have lost perspectives on how to analyse our environment as we have gained new ones through technology.
- willvarfar 5y agoOr the Americas sailed east and discovered Easter island?
- jcranmer 5y agoThis theory is substantially less likely for a few reasons: * The predominant oceanic currents in the South Pacific around Rapa Nui come from Polynesia, not South America. So you're not likely to be drifting towards Rapa Nui. Indeed, traveling from Polynesia to South America via Rapa Nui isn't a particularly far-fetched idea. * Polynesia, and earlier Austronesian antecedents, had a much stronger tradition of long transoceanic voyages. (Austronesians crossed the Indian Ocean and settled Madagascar before Africans set sail from their own coast to reach it).
- jacksonkmarley 5y agoI think I read somewhere that the DNA studies showed genetic transfer in one direction only, S. America to Polynesia, and not the other way, which seems like a bit of a counter argument.
- jeltz 5y agoThere are studies which has shown that some Amazonian natives had partial Melanesian ancestry which supports the argument.
- jacksonkmarley 5y agoIf you mean these [0], I think they are talking specifically about a migration route through the Aleutians? [0] https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/mysterious-link-emer...
- CameronNemo 5y agoWhat is more likely, a culture renowned for its seafaring ability and resiliency on tiny islands exploring far beyond their homeland, or a group from a resource rich continent leaving and reaching far despite their lack of experience with naval navigation and at-ocean life? I would put my money on the islanders being the explorers rather than the mainlanders.
- OnlyMortal 5y agoI’d assumed this was likely as the trip was done from South America in recent history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition I also understand there’re plants in parts of South America that originated in Polynesia.
- jaratec 5y agoIt is the other way around. The sweet potato is natively from America, but it made it to Polynesia, unclear how.
- throwaway2048 5y agoThe fact that the leading theory of anthropologists for a long time was vegetation rafts is laughable in the face of the distances Polynesian people regularly traveled, it speaks to the parochial nature of much of the field.
- scq 5y agoSweet potatoes found in Polynesia diverged from their ancestors in the Americas 100,000 years ago, long before the islands were colonized by humans. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04488-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-04488-4
- nkoren 5y agoAlso, the fact that many Polynesian languages used nearly the same word for "sweet potato" as some South American languages (kuumala -- Polynesian vs. kumara/cumal -- Quechua) is kind of a clue, yes? The fact that the "vegetation raft" theory persisted for more than a few seconds in the face of this knowledge always astonished me.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- eythian 5y ago